What can we know about the death of June Bamber?

[Robittybob1]

"The police log in the video has the figures 2 (downstairs) and 3 (upstairs).  The numerals are clearly visible."

https://youtu.be/_1idaKFwNZs "Jeremy Bamber: CaseQT - Jeremy's Alibi"

IMO the only body that could have been moved easily would have been June Bamber.

There isn't the same amount of conversation about June as there is about Sheila or Nevill.  I'm wondering why no one really talks about her as much.  She died a pretty horrific death at the hands of someone else but can we be sure she died where she is finally photographed?

[Robittybob1]

In one of the photos of Sheila there is blood on the door directly behind her head.  Did that bullet fragment and exit the head?  The body of Sheila can not be moved as the external evidence supports the fact that she died where she was lying.

Are the same factors visible with June Bamber's body?



There is nothing about that photo, that proves to me she was shot in that position where she is lying.

[Caroline]

"The police log in the video has the figures 2 (downstairs) and 3 (upstairs).  The numerals are clearly visible."

https://youtu.be/_1idaKFwNZs "Jeremy Bamber: CaseQT - Jeremy's Alibi"

IMO the only body that could have been moved easily would have been June Bamber.

There isn't the same amount of conversation about June as there is about Sheila or Nevill.  I'm wondering why no one really talks about her as much.  She died a pretty horrific death at the hands of someone else but can we be sure she died where she is finally photographed?

You need to read the raid team statements - it's nothing to do with there being two bodies.

[Robittybob1]

You need to read the raid team statements - it's nothing to do with there being two bodies.

Well where do I find them?  (please let me have the URL link.)

[Robittybob1]

From the photo of June's bed IMO she has got up out of bed herself.

So where did she go?   

[Robittybob1]

From this autopsy diagram, June had a total of 7 shots fired at her.




The one I find most surprising is the bullet fired into her knee.  The angle of that made me think it was taken while she was lying in her bed.  As if the first shot was to maim rather than to kill.

[Robittybob1]

In court this was the evidence from the expert witness:

"The finding of the cartridges and nature of the wounds to the deceased 58. In all twenty-five cartridge cases were recovered from the scene and the firearms expert gave evidence of his opinion as to which of these could be associated with each particular victim.

59. Two bullets were recovered from June Bamber's side of the double bed in the main bedroom and were consistent with the shots that had caused the injuries to her right shoulder, chest and forearm.

60. Found in or just outside the bedroom were thirteen cartridge cases. Seven would account for the shots into June Bamber, two for the wounds suffered by Sheila Caffell, leaving four cartridge cases that had been fired at Nevill Bamber. Three further cartridge cases were found in the kitchen, with a further case on the stairs leading up from the kitchen. If one accepts that the four shots to the head which would have immobilised and killed Nevill Bamber were fired in the kitchen where his body was recovered, it would follow that he had received the less serious injuries upstairs in the bedroom and was then able to make his way downstairs where he was subsequently killed.

61. The last eight cartridge cases were recovered in the children's room and accounted for the injuries they suffered.

62. Mr Fletcher also gave evidence of the range at which the shots had been fired. The lower (and not immediately fatal) of the injuries suffered by Sheila Caffell was caused when the muzzle of the gun was within three inches of the throat. The upper injury was a contact shot.

63. Of the seven injuries suffered by June Bamber, five were shots from the gun held at least one foot away from the body. The bullet wound between the eyes was fired from less than one foot away, and could have been with the gun in contact with the skin, although he viewed that as unlikely. Mr Fletcher was unable to estimate the range of the shot which had caused the injury to the right side of Mrs Bamber's chest.

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body."  http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

[Robittybob1]

"43. Mrs Bamber was bare footed and dressed in a nightdress. She had received seven gunshot wounds, of which one to her forehead and one to the right side of the head would have caused death very quickly. She also suffered shots to the right side of the lower part of her neck, the right forearm, two injuries to the right side of the chest and to the right knee. There was a great deal of blood on her body and clothing and from its pattern, it appeared that at some stage of the attack she had been in an upright position."

If the shots to her head would have caused death very quickly they must have been sustained last.
or she appears to have been shot in her bed but also in an upright position.

"147. The precise sequence of the killings was unclear. June Bamber was shot whilst still lying in bed but had managed to get up and walk a few steps before she collapsed and died by the main bedroom door. "

Is that bit true?

[Robittybob1]

In the thread "The 4 bullet fragments found in the master bedroom"  Scipio posts http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7967.msg385946#msg385946

"1) All 4 of the fragments are from different bullets because they represent the bulk of a bullet and thus any 2 together add up to the weight of more than a complete unfired bullet.

2) June suffered 3 exit wounds thus 3 of the 4 pertain to such.

3) Nevill suffered a graze wound, the bullet did not enter thus the 4th fragment pertains to such wound

4) DRH/35A and B were located in June's pillow and line up with the trajectory of exit wounds from her Neck and arm.

She was shot in the neck while seated. The bullet entered her neck, traveled down and exited from her back then entered her pillow.  Thus one shot in her pillow is definitely associated with such.

She was shot in the arm and the bullet exited her arm and went behind her into her pillow.

5) That leaves DRH/5 and DRH/9.

The location of DRH/9 was located inside the bed, specifically in the lower portion of the bed on June's side.  This suggests it is related to the bullet that exited her leg.

The only way for DRH/5 to relate to her leg wound would be if:

A) the bullet passed through her and after exiting missed the bed, struck the floor to the side of the bed and then deflected to the dressing table

or

B) the bullet passed through her knee and still had tremendous velocity thus was able to enter the bed, to hit the floor under the bed and deflect towards the dressing table.

Both of the above are theoretically possible.

If DRH/5 was from such wound then that means DRH/9 had to be the bullet that grazed Nevill.  The bullet would had to have bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced down into the lower part of the bed.

If DRH/9 was the bullet that exited June's leg then DRH/5 bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced into the corner near the dressing table.

June's leg wound passed through skin just it didn't damage bone so the bullet wasn't damaged much. If DRH/9 pertains to such wound the bullet was damaged significantly upon impacting the floor.  If DRH/5 pertains to such wound there was minimal damage during impact.

DRH/5 2.42 grams (93.44% of a bullet)
DRH/9 1.67 grams (64.48% of a bullet)"


That is one remarkable detailed post  - thanks scipio_usmc

[Robittybob1]

Without more photos I feel we have not proven that June Bamber was fatally shot in her bedroom.
There is a large section of her nightie that has no blood on it at all which only confirms IMO that she has been repositioned. 
Is that section a white flag of some sort, like a flag of surrender?   As I look at it it seems she has part of the flag in her hand and it has draped over the bottom part of her nightie.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Without more photos I feel we have not proven that June Bamber was fatally shot in her bedroom.
There is a large section of her nightie that has no blood on it at all which only confirms IMO that she has been repositioned. 
Is that section a white flag of some sort, like a flag of surrender?   As I look at it it seems she has part of the flag in her hand and it has draped over the bottom part of her nightie.

Can’t see the picture — just a white box.

Are you suggesting June got a white flag from somewhere and held it up to surrender?

[Robittybob1]

I think if you join the so called Blue forum (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/) you will be able to see the photo.  I don't know of other internet sites that have the photo. 

Yes, it looks like she is holding a part roll of toilet paper that has unraveled by about 400 mm.

Search Google for the image result was "No other sizes of this image found."

[Robittybob1]

If the two headshots were what killed her I'd expect more blood on the floor associated with those shots.



It appears a fact that I can't see any blood on the floor associated with those two headshots.  Why is that?

[Holly Goodhead]

In the thread "The 4 bullet fragments found in the master bedroom"  Scipio posts http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7967.msg385946#msg385946

"1) All 4 of the fragments are from different bullets because they represent the bulk of a bullet and thus any 2 together add up to the weight of more than a complete unfired bullet.

2) June suffered 3 exit wounds thus 3 of the 4 pertain to such.

3) Nevill suffered a graze wound, the bullet did not enter thus the 4th fragment pertains to such wound

4) DRH/35A and B were located in June's pillow and line up with the trajectory of exit wounds from her Neck and arm.

She was shot in the neck while seated. The bullet entered her neck, traveled down and exited from her back then entered her pillow.  Thus one shot in her pillow is definitely associated with such.

She was shot in the arm and the bullet exited her arm and went behind her into her pillow.

5) That leaves DRH/5 and DRH/9.

The location of DRH/9 was located inside the bed, specifically in the lower portion of the bed on June's side.  This suggests it is related to the bullet that exited her leg.

The only way for DRH/5 to relate to her leg wound would be if:

A) the bullet passed through her and after exiting missed the bed, struck the floor to the side of the bed and then deflected to the dressing table

or

B) the bullet passed through her knee and still had tremendous velocity thus was able to enter the bed, to hit the floor under the bed and deflect towards the dressing table.

Both of the above are theoretically possible.

If DRH/5 was from such wound then that means DRH/9 had to be the bullet that grazed Nevill.  The bullet would had to have bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced down into the lower part of the bed.

If DRH/9 was the bullet that exited June's leg then DRH/5 bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced into the corner near the dressing table.

June's leg wound passed through skin just it didn't damage bone so the bullet wasn't damaged much. If DRH/9 pertains to such wound the bullet was damaged significantly upon impacting the floor.  If DRH/5 pertains to such wound there was minimal damage during impact.

DRH/5 2.42 grams (93.44% of a bullet)
DRH/9 1.67 grams (64.48% of a bullet)"


That is one remarkable detailed post  - thanks scipio_usmc

June sustained 7 entry wounds, 3 exit wounds and a non-penetrating gouge only wound ie 8 bullets were fired at June.

NB sustained 3 entry wounds and 1 graze only wound upstairs.  The bullet from the graze only wound was seen radiologically.

The bullets in the main bedroom: DRH5, DRH9 and DRH35 x 2 all pertain to June.

[Miss Taken Identity]

In the thread "The 4 bullet fragments found in the master bedroom"  Scipio posts http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7967.msg385946#msg385946

"1) All 4 of the fragments are from different bullets because they represent the bulk of a bullet and thus any 2 together add up to the weight of more than a complete unfired bullet.

2) June suffered 3 exit wounds thus 3 of the 4 pertain to such.

3) Nevill suffered a graze wound, the bullet did not enter thus the 4th fragment pertains to such wound

4) DRH/35A and B were located in June's pillow and line up with the trajectory of exit wounds from her Neck and arm.

She was shot in the neck while seated. The bullet entered her neck, traveled down and exited from her back then entered her pillow.  Thus one shot in her pillow is definitely associated with such.

She was shot in the arm and the bullet exited her arm and went behind her into her pillow.

5) That leaves DRH/5 and DRH/9.

The location of DRH/9 was located inside the bed, specifically in the lower portion of the bed on June's side.  This suggests it is related to the bullet that exited her leg.

The only way for DRH/5 to relate to her leg wound would be if:

A) the bullet passed through her and after exiting missed the bed, struck the floor to the side of the bed and then deflected to the dressing table

or

B) the bullet passed through her knee and still had tremendous velocity thus was able to enter the bed, to hit the floor under the bed and deflect towards the dressing table.

Both of the above are theoretically possible.

If DRH/5 was from such wound then that means DRH/9 had to be the bullet that grazed Nevill.  The bullet would had to have bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced down into the lower part of the bed.

If DRH/9 was the bullet that exited June's leg then DRH/5 bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced into the corner near the dressing table.

June's leg wound passed through skin just it didn't damage bone so the bullet wasn't damaged much. If DRH/9 pertains to such wound the bullet was damaged significantly upon impacting the floor.  If DRH/5 pertains to such wound there was minimal damage during impact.

DRH/5 2.42 grams (93.44% of a bullet)
DRH/9 1.67 grams (64.48% of a bullet)"


That is one remarkable detailed post  - thanks scipio_usmc

That is a lot of bullets..a lot of noise.and are we still thinking a silencer wasn't used?