Author Topic: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)  (Read 400449 times)

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Offline misty

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3900 on: February 07, 2019, 10:06:40 PM »
‘Even more, she claims that she “will go everywhere” she can to look for Joana, who would now be 22 years old.’

I believe OJ Simpson said the same thing about finding Nicole’s killer.

Leonor has served her time so she doesn't have to do anything at all insofar as searching for Joana is concerned.
I hope she can find a group who will back any quest to find her daughter.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3901 on: February 07, 2019, 10:15:32 PM »
I see she’s got a little job lined up - SIL’s new cleaner perhaps?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3902 on: February 07, 2019, 10:28:01 PM »
Leonor has served her time so she doesn't have to do anything at all insofar as searching for Joana is concerned.
I hope she can find a group who will back any quest to find her daughter.

Have you forgotten Misty, she’s here daughter ? It would be a talking point, whether guilty or innocent, if she didn’t even pretend to search.

Perhaps now the McCanns have the GBP bankrolling their search they may give Cipriano some money from the fund and advice, what with their search being so successful and all. It’s the least they could do by way of a thank you for her part in the downfall of their greatest foe.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Brietta

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3903 on: February 07, 2019, 10:30:32 PM »

I am pleased to hear this, in so far as it is possible to be pleased.

Agreed.
However even at this late date the inaccurate reporting continues.

Ms Donn reports ... "The condemnation was used liberally to discredit Amaral when he later went on to coordinate the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann." which is a distortion of the facts.

Amaral's trial and conviction didn't occur until 2009 long after Madeleine's case had been shelved.

Snip

23 May 2009

The former Portuguese police chief who accused the parents of Madeleine McCann of involvement in her disappearance, has been found guilty of falsifying evidence in another missing child case.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5840.msg207872#msg207872
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Erngath

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3904 on: February 07, 2019, 10:35:23 PM »
Have you forgotten Misty, she’s here daughter ? It would be a talking point, whether guilty or innocent, if she didn’t even pretend to search.

Perhaps now the McCanns have the GBP bankrolling their search they may give Cipriano some money from the fund and advice, what with their search being so successful and all. It’s the least they could do by way of a thank you for her part in the downfall of their greatest foe.

Perhaps "their greatest foe" played a huge part in his own "downfall".
I am assuming you are referring to GA.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3905 on: February 07, 2019, 10:37:23 PM »
Agreed.
However even at this late date the inaccurate reporting continues.

Ms Donn reports ... "The condemnation was used liberally to discredit Amaral when he later went on to coordinate the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann." which is a distortion of the facts.

Amaral's trial and conviction didn't occur until 2009 long after Madeleine's case had been shelved.

Snip

23 May 2009

The former Portuguese police chief who accused the parents of Madeleine McCann of involvement in her disappearance, has been found guilty of falsifying evidence in another missing child case.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5840.msg207872#msg207872

Even before he was tried the fact that he was an arguido was certainly used to condemn him.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3906 on: February 07, 2019, 10:42:05 PM »
Even before he was tried the fact that he was an arguido was certainly used to condemn him.
*irony klaxon*
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline misty

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3907 on: February 07, 2019, 10:57:11 PM »
Even before he was tried the fact that he was an arguido was certainly used to condemn him.

I often wonder how the Amaral supporters would have reacted had a Portuguese couple's child gone missing in the UK in similar circumstances & a UK DCI under investigation for complicity in the abuse of a prisoner had been overseeing the case.

Offline misty

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3908 on: February 07, 2019, 11:04:23 PM »
Have you forgotten Misty, she’s here daughter ? It would be a talking point, whether guilty or innocent, if she didn’t even pretend to search.

Perhaps now the McCanns have the GBP bankrolling their search they may give Cipriano some money from the fund and advice, what with their search being so successful and all. It’s the least they could do by way of a thank you for her part in the downfall of their greatest foe.

Why would Leonor resume a search for Joana if she knows she is dead? She's already lost 20 years of her own life & freedom.
I think it's up to the Portuguese public to back any search if they have no faith in their justice system.

Offline Brietta

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3909 on: February 07, 2019, 11:10:05 PM »
Perhaps "their greatest foe" played a huge part in his own "downfall".
I am assuming you are referring to GA.

I think the great divide starts an end there regarding who was the architect of his own misfortunes.

Interesting that I've never seen the volume of alleged criticism of Amaral on MSM during the few months while Madeleine's case was active.
Although if it had been ... so what?   Should he even have been near the case given what his superiors knew about him and given his conduct of the case apropos the two mothers of the missing children.
A situation about which the husband of the one convicted of the murder of her child warned the one still an arguida in the disappearance of hers.


Detective in McCann Case Investigated For Beating Convicted Child Murderer
Portuguese detective in McCann case accused of beating suspect in 2004 case.

By FABIOLA ANTEZANAPRAIA DA LUZ, Portugal, Sept. 26, 2007 — — Feb 12, 2009 4:42 PM ET
The husband of a convicted murderer has accused the Portuguese investigator spearheading the case of Madeleine McCann of beating a confession out of his wife.

Leonor Cipriano, 36, was convicted of the murder of her eight-year-old daughter Joana, who disappeared in the Algarve region in September 2004 under similar circumstances to the McCann disappearance.

In an exclusive interview, Cipriano's common-law husband, Leandro Silva, told ABC News that his wife said she was beaten repeatedly as police grilled her during a three-day long interrogation.

"'They beat it out of me', she told me, 'they beat me until I confessed,'" Silva said as he recalled his first visit to his wife about a week after police took her into custody.

"The only difference between the McCanns and us is that we don't have money," Silva said. "They have means, they have high powered attorneys that they can pay."

According to Silva, his wife told him that chief inspector Gonçalo Amaral, one of the leading detectives in the McCann case, watched as police hit her in the face and chest again and again.

Local newspapers have reported that Amaral and four other officers will be in court next month to face charges surrounding the beating allegations. But Amaral has not been suspended from his work on the McCann case.

Cipriano is currently serving a 16-year sentence for the murder of Joana who disappeared in 2004 in a town less than 15 miles from where Madeleine McCann disappeared nearly five months ago.

Joana's body has never been found. McCann, who was 3 years old when she went missing has also not been found, but the family and police still hold out hope that she is still alive.

Kate McCann and her husband, Gerry, were declared "arguido," or official suspects, last month, although under Portuguese law, the police are not allowed to divulge publicly what evidence they have. But the couple, both doctors and substantially well-off, have been allowed to leave Portugal.

Confession at All Costs Alleged
Silva said his wife retracted her statement just two days after confessing to Portuguese police, but she remains in a women's prison in Odemira, about a two-hour drive from Praia da Luz.

Joana went missing one night when her parents say she went for a short walk to the local market in her home town of Figuera, near Portimão. Cipriano was arrested and convicted, in part because of her confession, along with the discovery of some of Joana's blood, police say they found in Cipriano's home.

Maddie also disappeared just minutes from where her parents were dining at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz in May 2007.

"I knew immediately that it was the police that had done that to her," Silva said. "They wanted her to confess to a crime she did not commit."

He shakes his head back and forth saying that the police in Portugal don't work professionally.

Amaral could not be reached for comment and police refused to talk about the allegations.

"We all saw the bruises," Silva said. "My mother, my sister and me. Leonor's face was all battered and bruised, so was her chest."

"Leonor was a good person, she didn't deserve this, but then there is no justice for the poor."

Inequality Alleged Between Rich and Poor Suspects
Silva, a 41-year-old auto mechanic, said his wife is not the only member of his family to be treated roughly by Portuguese police.

Maria de Lourdes, Silva's mother, who visits her daughter-in-law regularly in prison, said she was also abused by Portuguese police in Faro in interviews conducted during the Joana investigation.

"The police in Portimão treated us really well," she told ABC News in her home near Lagos. "But the Faro police were awful. They gave us nothing to eat or drink the whole day," said the 57-year-old mother of nine. "They battered us physically and mentally."

Amaral was always present during questioning, de Lourdes said her daughter-in-law told her.

"He controlled everything," she said. "And he kept asking me: 'Did you see blood in the house?' 'I'm sure you cleaned the house with petrol to get rid of the smell.'"

"They have accused us of everything that we killed Joana, that we stabbed her, even that we sold her," de Lourdes said.

But as far as de Lourdes is concerned, the worst thing is not knowing what happened to Joana and then being blamed for her disappearance.

"How can they prove that we had anything to do with her disappearance?"

Privileged vs. Poor
"If Kate McCann were Portuguese, she would already be in jail," said de Lourdes.

The McCann's circle of friends and savvy contacts have been able to generate the kind of media attention that has made their daughter's face instantly recognizable all over the world. They have also hired top attorneys in Portugal and the U.K., as well as forensic experts to pick apart every DNA sample gathered by investigators.

The couple has also received financial backing from a British millionaire Brian Kennedy, a move that may have saved the 39-year-old doctors from having to sell their home to cover their legal defense.

Still, despite her bitterness over what she believes is her own daughter-in-laws wrongful conviction de Lourdes is convinced of Kate McCann's innocence. In fact the slightest mention of the couple brings empathy from de Lourdes.

"I don't think that that woman is capable of doing something like that to her daughter," she said. "I just don't believe it."

"The same Portuguese press that are now chasing the McCanns are the same journalists who were on my doorstep when Joana disappeared," she said.

And while she knows that she and Kate McCann come from very different worlds their situations are parallel.

"Our plight is not so different anymore," she said. "So I cannot help but feel for that woman. After all we are on the same path."

De Lourdes recalls vividly the day Joana went missing.

"I got the phone call around midnight," said de Lourdes. "My son Leandro was asking me if Joana was here with me." They then went to look for her at the cousin's house where she spent the afternoon.

"When I didn't hear from them again, I assumed they had found her," she said.

But the following morning when de Lourdes was getting ready to pick up her son to go to work, she saw her daughter in law Leonor walking down the street sobbing hysterically.

"'Joana is missing,'" she told me.

The girl's parents called police within an hour of Joana's disappearance. But according to Leandro and his mother, police did not begin searching for his daughter until 48 hours after they reported her missing.

Life After Joana
Silva remains convinced of his wife's innocence. But he is particularly bitter about Amaral, against whom he has lodged a formal complaint.

"He (Amaral) should not even be working on this (the McCanns') case," said Silva.

If the beating charges turn out to be true it will hurt the McCann investigation, according to Roy Ramm, former commander of special investigations at Scotland Yard. Ramm told ABC News: "This is not something you would expect to find in the U.K. When someone has allegations of falsifying evidence and beating a witness and these are very serious allegations -- it does not bode well for the case."

"People have to have confidence in the person leading the investigation," he added. "Otherwise the chances of a satisfactory outcome are jeopardized."

In a book entitled "The Star of Joana," former Portuguese detective Paulo Pereira Cristovão alleges how police took too long in organizing a search for the little girl.

Silva thinks his wife's beating was a simple matter of the police needing to find a suspect as well as maintaining a safe image for tourists who come to the Algarve.

He calls the accusations against her ridiculous. "She was a great mother," said Silva. "She never even hit Joana, not once even when our little girl insulted her."

Joana was not Silva's biological daughter but he insists she was still his daughter. "First they took my daughter, now the police have taken my love, my lifelong partner."

https://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3646987&page=1
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3910 on: February 07, 2019, 11:15:03 PM »
Why would Leonor resume a search for Joana if she knows she is dead? She's already lost 20 years of her own life & freedom.
I think it's up to the Portuguese public to back any search if they have no faith in their justice system.

It will be interesting to see if Leonor might think about seeking the assistance of an established ghost writer to write a book about her experiences over the past twenty years.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3911 on: February 07, 2019, 11:28:36 PM »
It will be interesting to see if Leonor might think about seeking the assistance of an established ghost writer to write a book about her experiences over the past twenty years.

I'm not sure a book would be the right way forward for Leonor at present. It will be interesting to see what steps, if any, she takes to look for Joana in the future & the support she receives.

Offline faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3912 on: February 07, 2019, 11:46:34 PM »
I often wonder how the Amaral supporters would have reacted had a Portuguese couple's child gone missing in the UK in similar circumstances & a UK DCI under investigation for complicity in the abuse of a prisoner had been overseeing the case.

I would assume in those circumstances he would be suspended.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3913 on: February 07, 2019, 11:47:36 PM »
Why would Leonor resume a search for Joana if she knows she is dead? She's already lost 20 years of her own life & freedom.
I think it's up to the Portuguese public to back any search if they have no faith in their justice system.

Let’s see if she conducts a search first shall we ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Brietta

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3914 on: February 07, 2019, 11:51:56 PM »
I'm not sure a book would be the right way forward for Leonor at present. It will be interesting to see what steps, if any, she takes to look for Joana in the future & the support she receives.

Twenty years is a long time to have had your life put on hold ... she will probably have to spend some time getting acclimatised to freedom and catching up with friends and family.

I have no idea what a simple woman in her circumstances could do to look for her daughter this late in the day particularly while she carries the 'murderess' tag around with her in Portugal.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....