General discussion about the latest news (not search related)

[faithlilly]

I think the great divide starts an end there regarding who was the architect of his own misfortunes.

Interesting that I've never seen the volume of alleged criticism of Amaral on MSM during the few months while Madeleine's case was active.
Although if it had been ... so what?   Should he even have been near the case given what his superiors knew about him and given his conduct of the case apropos the two mothers of the missing children.
A situation about which the husband of the one convicted of the murder of her child warned the one still an arguida in the disappearance of hers.


Detective in McCann Case Investigated For Beating Convicted Child Murderer
Portuguese detective in McCann case accused of beating suspect in 2004 case.

By FABIOLA ANTEZANAPRAIA DA LUZ, Portugal, Sept. 26, 2007 — — Feb 12, 2009 4:42 PM ET
The husband of a convicted murderer has accused the Portuguese investigator spearheading the case of Madeleine McCann of beating a confession out of his wife.

Leonor Cipriano, 36, was convicted of the murder of her eight-year-old daughter Joana, who disappeared in the Algarve region in September 2004 under similar circumstances to the McCann disappearance.

In an exclusive interview, Cipriano's common-law husband, Leandro Silva, told ABC News that his wife said she was beaten repeatedly as police grilled her during a three-day long interrogation.

"'They beat it out of me', she told me, 'they beat me until I confessed,'" Silva said as he recalled his first visit to his wife about a week after police took her into custody.

"The only difference between the McCanns and us is that we don't have money," Silva said. "They have means, they have high powered attorneys that they can pay."

According to Silva, his wife told him that chief inspector Gonçalo Amaral, one of the leading detectives in the McCann case, watched as police hit her in the face and chest again and again.

Local newspapers have reported that Amaral and four other officers will be in court next month to face charges surrounding the beating allegations. But Amaral has not been suspended from his work on the McCann case.

Cipriano is currently serving a 16-year sentence for the murder of Joana who disappeared in 2004 in a town less than 15 miles from where Madeleine McCann disappeared nearly five months ago.

Joana's body has never been found. McCann, who was 3 years old when she went missing has also not been found, but the family and police still hold out hope that she is still alive.

Kate McCann and her husband, Gerry, were declared "arguido," or official suspects, last month, although under Portuguese law, the police are not allowed to divulge publicly what evidence they have. But the couple, both doctors and substantially well-off, have been allowed to leave Portugal.

Confession at All Costs Alleged
Silva said his wife retracted her statement just two days after confessing to Portuguese police, but she remains in a women's prison in Odemira, about a two-hour drive from Praia da Luz.

Joana went missing one night when her parents say she went for a short walk to the local market in her home town of Figuera, near Portimão. Cipriano was arrested and convicted, in part because of her confession, along with the discovery of some of Joana's blood, police say they found in Cipriano's home.

Maddie also disappeared just minutes from where her parents were dining at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz in May 2007.

"I knew immediately that it was the police that had done that to her," Silva said. "They wanted her to confess to a crime she did not commit."

He shakes his head back and forth saying that the police in Portugal don't work professionally.

Amaral could not be reached for comment and police refused to talk about the allegations.

"We all saw the bruises," Silva said. "My mother, my sister and me. Leonor's face was all battered and bruised, so was her chest."

"Leonor was a good person, she didn't deserve this, but then there is no justice for the poor."

Inequality Alleged Between Rich and Poor Suspects
Silva, a 41-year-old auto mechanic, said his wife is not the only member of his family to be treated roughly by Portuguese police.

Maria de Lourdes, Silva's mother, who visits her daughter-in-law regularly in prison, said she was also abused by Portuguese police in Faro in interviews conducted during the Joana investigation.

"The police in Portimão treated us really well," she told ABC News in her home near Lagos. "But the Faro police were awful. They gave us nothing to eat or drink the whole day," said the 57-year-old mother of nine. "They battered us physically and mentally."

Amaral was always present during questioning, de Lourdes said her daughter-in-law told her.

"He controlled everything," she said. "And he kept asking me: 'Did you see blood in the house?' 'I'm sure you cleaned the house with petrol to get rid of the smell.'"

"They have accused us of everything that we killed Joana, that we stabbed her, even that we sold her," de Lourdes said.

But as far as de Lourdes is concerned, the worst thing is not knowing what happened to Joana and then being blamed for her disappearance.

"How can they prove that we had anything to do with her disappearance?"

Privileged vs. Poor
"If Kate McCann were Portuguese, she would already be in jail," said de Lourdes.

The McCann's circle of friends and savvy contacts have been able to generate the kind of media attention that has made their daughter's face instantly recognizable all over the world. They have also hired top attorneys in Portugal and the U.K., as well as forensic experts to pick apart every DNA sample gathered by investigators.

The couple has also received financial backing from a British millionaire Brian Kennedy, a move that may have saved the 39-year-old doctors from having to sell their home to cover their legal defense.

Still, despite her bitterness over what she believes is her own daughter-in-laws wrongful conviction de Lourdes is convinced of Kate McCann's innocence. In fact the slightest mention of the couple brings empathy from de Lourdes.

"I don't think that that woman is capable of doing something like that to her daughter," she said. "I just don't believe it."

"The same Portuguese press that are now chasing the McCanns are the same journalists who were on my doorstep when Joana disappeared," she said.

And while she knows that she and Kate McCann come from very different worlds their situations are parallel.

"Our plight is not so different anymore," she said. "So I cannot help but feel for that woman. After all we are on the same path."

De Lourdes recalls vividly the day Joana went missing.

"I got the phone call around midnight," said de Lourdes. "My son Leandro was asking me if Joana was here with me." They then went to look for her at the cousin's house where she spent the afternoon.

"When I didn't hear from them again, I assumed they had found her," she said.

But the following morning when de Lourdes was getting ready to pick up her son to go to work, she saw her daughter in law Leonor walking down the street sobbing hysterically.

"'Joana is missing,'" she told me.

The girl's parents called police within an hour of Joana's disappearance. But according to Leandro and his mother, police did not begin searching for his daughter until 48 hours after they reported her missing.

Life After Joana
Silva remains convinced of his wife's innocence. But he is particularly bitter about Amaral, against whom he has lodged a formal complaint.

"He (Amaral) should not even be working on this (the McCanns') case," said Silva.

If the beating charges turn out to be true it will hurt the McCann investigation, according to Roy Ramm, former commander of special investigations at Scotland Yard. Ramm told ABC News: "This is not something you would expect to find in the U.K. When someone has allegations of falsifying evidence and beating a witness and these are very serious allegations -- it does not bode well for the case."

"People have to have confidence in the person leading the investigation," he added. "Otherwise the chances of a satisfactory outcome are jeopardized."

In a book entitled "The Star of Joana," former Portuguese detective Paulo Pereira Cristovão alleges how police took too long in organizing a search for the little girl.

Silva thinks his wife's beating was a simple matter of the police needing to find a suspect as well as maintaining a safe image for tourists who come to the Algarve.

He calls the accusations against her ridiculous. "She was a great mother," said Silva. "She never even hit Joana, not once even when our little girl insulted her."

Joana was not Silva's biological daughter but he insists she was still his daughter. "First they took my daughter, now the police have taken my love, my lifelong partner."

https://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3646987&page=1

I believe the interviewee gave evidence against his sister in court.

From the Algarve Resident ( link no longer active) http://algarveresident.com/10046-3535/algarve/portugals-silent-child-victims

‘The trial included key testimony from Joana's stepfather, António Leandro, who related that Leonor had confided to him that she had had a sexual relationship with her brother. He also told the court that during this conversation, which took place a few days after Joana's disappearance, at judicial police headquarters, Leonor had admitted that she and her brother had killed the little girl. ‘

Of course talking to the tabloids would be a nice little earner for someone in such dire straits.

[Venturi Swirl]

Twenty years is a long time to have had your life put on hold ... she will probably have to spend some time getting acclimatised to freedom and catching up with friends and family.

I have no idea what a simple woman in her circumstances could do to look for her daughter this late in the day particularly while she carries the 'murderess' tag around with her in Portugal.

From things I have seen and read many Portuguese people think she was the victim of a police stitch up.

[misty]

I would assume in those circumstances he would be suspended.

Hypothetically - what if he was allowed to continue to lead the case? Would UK media/social media be supportive of him or sympathetic to the parents of the missing child, especially if spurious allegations were cast against the parents?

[misty]

For anyone who can stomach the farcical reconstitution, CdM has excelled itself in the leading story on the day of Leonor's release.

https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/-imagens-mostram-tio-de-joana-a-serrar-manequim-para-mostrar-como-esquartejou-sobrinha?ref=HP_Destaque

(If anyone can copy & upload the video it would be appreciated).

[Brietta]

For anyone who can stomach the farcical reconstitution, CdM has excelled itself in the leading story on the day of Leonor's release.

https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/-imagens-mostram-tio-de-joana-a-serrar-manequim-para-mostrar-como-esquartejou-sobrinha?ref=HP_Destaque

(If anyone can copy & upload the video it would be appreciated).

Instead of the still photographs portraying the dismemberment I would really have liked to see live video footage of this guy trying to load the dismembered limbs, torso and head into the tiny compartments of that small freezer.

Even from the still images it can clearly be seen that the PJ 'evidence' is hogwash and just could not have happened as portrayed.
What a farce!

[misty]

Instead of the still photographs portraying the dismemberment I would really have liked to see live video footage of this guy trying to load the dismembered limbs, torso and head into the tiny compartments of that small freezer.

Even from the still images it can clearly be seen that the PJ 'evidence' is hogwash and just could not have happened as portrayed.
What a farce!

John posted the full video here, Brietta.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7762.msg362675#msg362675

ETA I'm not entirely sure that it's Joao pictured in the stills of the dismemberment.

[faithlilly]

Hypothetically - what if he was allowed to continue to lead the case? Would UK media/social media be supportive of him or sympathetic to the parents of the missing child, especially if spurious allegations were cast against the parents?

It wouldn’t happen.

[faithlilly]

John posted the full video here, Brietta.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7762.msg362675#msg362675

ETA I'm not entirely sure that it's Joao pictured in the stills of the dismemberment.

Absolutely sickening and what the reconstitution shows is that João was in no way coerced into telling his tale.

I’m really not sure how anyone can support these animals. How much support do you think a British couple would  receive in the UK if a similar reconstitution was shown on the news ?

[Eleanor]

Absolutely sickening and what the reconstitution shows is that João was in no way coerced into telling his tale.

I’m really not sure how anyone can support these animals. How much support do you think a British couple would  receive in the UK if a similar reconstitution was shown on the news ?

It wouldn't happen.

[Brietta]

John posted the full video here, Brietta.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7762.msg362675#msg362675

ETA I'm not entirely sure that it's Joao pictured in the stills of the dismemberment.

Thanks Misty.  It rather reinforces the opinion of the appeal court judge who said ...
Snip
"The simple reading of the conviction shows that the only evidence that allowed to establish the events that led to the death of Joana is the reconstitution of the facts, carried out in the course of the investigation with the collaboration of the defendant João Cipriano, but without the presence of the defendant Leonor Cyprian. There were no face-to-face witnesses, the defendants referred to the silence of the trial, their statements in the investigation could not be assessed by the Court and it was not possible to directly examine the corpse.
"How did the jury find out that the child was beaten by the two defendants? And how did you know he hit his head on the corner of the wall? And what was visible bleeding from the mouth, nose, and temple, through the clashing on the wall? And that such strikes and fall caused the death of the child? And that the two defendants were assured (!) Of the death of the minor? And then they quartered the corpse and put it in plastic bags in the drawers of the cold ark?
"The answer to these questions was obtained solely by the reconstitutions of the defendant João Cipriano, since the other means of evidence indicated in the sentence allow to affirm that there was a death, but not how it happened and who provoked it ..."
"The assessment of uncorroborated reconstitutions of the defendant Leonor, as it happened, is unlawful and unconstitutional and should have led to her acquittal for the crime of homicide. This was no longer the case for the crime of desecration and concealment of a corpse, since it could not have been executed by the defendant João Cipriano without the active collaboration of the defendant, with him present at the time and place of the crime.
_____________________________________________________________________________

'In summary, it is clear from the reading of the conviction which the jury decided on the defendants at the points indicated and thus violated the principle of the presumption of innocence which obliges the court to give a conviction only when there is no doubt reasonable. And the condemnation based on mere assumptions or on the possibly perverse and associative nature of the accused is also illegal and unconstitutional ».

https://crimedigoeu.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/caso-joana-as-duvidas-da-justica-sete-anos-depois/

[faithlilly]

Thanks Misty.  It rather reinforces the opinion of the appeal court judge who said ...
Snip
"The simple reading of the conviction shows that the only evidence that allowed to establish the events that led to the death of Joana is the reconstitution of the facts, carried out in the course of the investigation with the collaboration of the defendant João Cipriano, but without the presence of the defendant Leonor Cyprian. There were no face-to-face witnesses, the defendants referred to the silence of the trial, their statements in the investigation could not be assessed by the Court and it was not possible to directly examine the corpse.
"How did the jury find out that the child was beaten by the two defendants? And how did you know he hit his head on the corner of the wall? And what was visible bleeding from the mouth, nose, and temple, through the clashing on the wall? And that such strikes and fall caused the death of the child? And that the two defendants were assured (!) Of the death of the minor? And then they quartered the corpse and put it in plastic bags in the drawers of the cold ark?
"The answer to these questions was obtained solely by the reconstitutions of the defendant João Cipriano, since the other means of evidence indicated in the sentence allow to affirm that there was a death, but not how it happened and who provoked it ..."
"The assessment of uncorroborated reconstitutions of the defendant Leonor, as it happened, is unlawful and unconstitutional and should have led to her acquittal for the crime of homicide. This was no longer the case for the crime of desecration and concealment of a corpse, since it could not have been executed by the defendant João Cipriano without the active collaboration of the defendant, with him present at the time and place of the crime.
_____________________________________________________________________________

'In summary, it is clear from the reading of the conviction which the jury decided on the defendants at the points indicated and thus violated the principle of the presumption of innocence which obliges the court to give a conviction only when there is no doubt reasonable. And the condemnation based on mere assumptions or on the possibly perverse and associative nature of the accused is also illegal and unconstitutional ».

https://crimedigoeu.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/caso-joana-as-duvidas-da-justica-sete-anos-depois/

Was the appeal successful ?

[barrier]

You know that argument “if the McCanns were being investigated do you really think we’d know anything about it”, well how does one  explain the fact that I’ve just read in the newspaper the name and life history of some chap in Hull who is being investigated for abducting a student?

I also read about Cliff Richards being investigated, we know how that turned out.

[Venturi Swirl]

I also read about Cliff Richards being investigated, we know how that turned out.

And yet its still happening.

[Venturi Swirl]

Absolutely sickening and what the reconstitution shows is that João was in no way coerced into telling his tale.

I’m really not sure how anyone can support these animals. How much support do you think a British couple would  receive in the UK if a similar reconstitution was shown on the news ?

How does the video show that he was not coerced, moreover given that it’s not uncommon for people accused of a crime (especially those of low intelligence or poor backgrounds) to be manipulated into confessing to something they didn’t do, why are you so convincing of his guilt?

[Mr Gray]

Absolutely sickening and what the reconstitution shows is that João was in no way coerced into telling his tale.

I’m really not sure how anyone can support these animals. How much support do you think a British couple would  receive in the UK if a similar reconstitution was shown on the news ?

I think if the case had been shown on tbe news they would never have been arrested... If the UK public had seen the face of Leonora... And understood there was no real evidence against her... It would be the police facing arrest and imprisonment