Author Topic: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)  (Read 400425 times)

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Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3990 on: February 27, 2019, 11:23:28 AM »
I think it is highly relevant that Eddie alerted in the parent’s bedroom but Keela didn’t.
OK, thanks for the clarification.  I understand your point.

I hope you will not be annoyed if I disagree with your opinion.

The dog searches were conducted months after Madeleine disappeared, which is very definitely long enough for cadaver odour to develop from blood.

As to the bedroom alert, Grime explains it as possible pooling.

I am very definitely not impressed by Mr Grime's conduct of the searches nor his explanation thereof.

Based on the information I have to date, were the McCanns to be hauled up in court on such evidence, I would feel obliged to testify in their defence, at least on this aspect.  My view may change if fresh evidence comes to light about this consideration.
What's up, old man?

Offline G-Unit

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3991 on: February 27, 2019, 11:41:27 AM »
OK, thanks for the clarification.  I understand your point.

I hope you will not be annoyed if I disagree with your opinion.

The dog searches were conducted months after Madeleine disappeared, which is very definitely long enough for cadaver odour to develop from blood.

As to the bedroom alert, Grime explains it as possible pooling.

I am very definitely not impressed by Mr Grime's conduct of the searches nor his explanation thereof.

Based on the information I have to date, were the McCanns to be hauled up in court on such evidence, I would feel obliged to testify in their defence, at least on this aspect.  My view may change if fresh evidence comes to light about this consideration.

I can think of no reason why you would be asked to testify.
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Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3992 on: February 27, 2019, 11:54:16 AM »
I can think of no reason why you would be asked to testify.
Nor can I.
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3993 on: February 27, 2019, 12:23:29 PM »
OK, thanks for the clarification.  I understand your point.

I hope you will not be annoyed if I disagree with your opinion.

The dog searches were conducted months after Madeleine disappeared, which is very definitely long enough for cadaver odour to develop from blood.

As to the bedroom alert, Grime explains it as possible pooling.

I am very definitely not impressed by Mr Grime's conduct of the searches nor his explanation thereof.

Based on the information I have to date, were the McCanns to be hauled up in court on such evidence, I would feel obliged to testify in their defence, at least on this aspect.  My view may change if fresh evidence comes to light about this consideration.

probably best not to have you testify re anything.....blood does not produce cadaver odour...this was shown with references some time ago......if you dont agree ...cite for blood producing cadaver odour

Offline faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3994 on: February 27, 2019, 12:53:39 PM »
OK, thanks for the clarification.  I understand your point.

I hope you will not be annoyed if I disagree with your opinion.

The dog searches were conducted months after Madeleine disappeared, which is very definitely long enough for cadaver odour to develop from blood.

As to the bedroom alert, Grime explains it as possible pooling.

I am very definitely not impressed by Mr Grime's conduct of the searches nor his explanation thereof.

Based on the information I have to date, were the McCanns to be hauled up in court on such evidence, I would feel obliged to testify in their defence, at least on this aspect.  My view may change if fresh evidence comes to light about this consideration.

I don’t mind if you disagree at all...it all makes for robust debate.

As to pooling I very much doubt Grime was alluding to pooling in one room from another, especially a room so far from the presumed source of the blood, the area behind the couch.


‘ If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.’

Note...in this room ie the bedroom.

Two further points. Neither you nor I have the expertise to judge Grimes conduct of nor explanation of the dog searches. He is the expert. Further I have never heard that the scent of blood could change over time to cadaver odour. Do you have a cite ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3995 on: February 27, 2019, 01:05:27 PM »
probably best not to have you testify re anything.....blood does not produce cadaver odour...this was shown with references some time ago......if you dont agree ...cite for blood producing cadaver odour
Grime. 
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3996 on: February 27, 2019, 01:17:07 PM »
Grime.

no he didnt...provide a cite...if blood produced cadaverine then all cadaver dogs would react to blood..they dont..simple


so..cite for Grime...you have totally misunderstood what grime said....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3997 on: February 27, 2019, 01:21:35 PM »
I don’t mind if you disagree at all...it all makes for robust debate.

As to pooling I very much doubt Grime was alluding to pooling in one room from another, especially a room so far from the presumed source of the blood, the area behind the couch.


‘ If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.’

Note...in this room ie the bedroom.

Two further points. Neither you nor I have the expertise to judge Grimes conduct of nor explanation of the dog searches. He is the expert. Further I have never heard that the scent of blood could change over time to cadaver odour. Do you have a cite ?
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theres no cite...it isnt true..


Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3998 on: February 27, 2019, 01:28:16 PM »
I don’t mind if you disagree at all...it all makes for robust debate.

As to pooling I very much doubt Grime was alluding to pooling in one room from another, especially a room so far from the presumed source of the blood, the area behind the couch.


‘ If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.’

Note...in this room ie the bedroom.

Two further points. Neither you nor I have the expertise to judge Grimes conduct of nor explanation of the dog searches. He is the expert. Further I have never heard that the scent of blood could change over time to cadaver odour. Do you have a cite ?

I think its quite valid to question grime...as elements of teh PJ did...his idea of scent pooling makes no scientific scent...but he is not a scientist...scent will move and dissipate randomly

Offline faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3999 on: February 27, 2019, 01:30:14 PM »
no he didnt...provide a cite...if blood produced cadaverine then all cadaver dogs would react to blood..they dont..simple


so..cite for Grime...you have totally misunderstood what grime said....

Cadaver dogs do react to blood, that is why a blood dog such as Keela was needed.

Both Keela and Eddie alerted to the area behind the couch....blood contamination possible.
Only Eddie alerted in the bedroom....cadaver scent contamination likely.

You see how it works ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4000 on: February 27, 2019, 01:37:36 PM »
I don’t mind if you disagree at all...it all makes for robust debate.

As to pooling I very much doubt Grime was alluding to pooling in one room from another, especially a room so far from the presumed source of the blood, the area behind the couch.


‘ If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.’

Note...in this room ie the bedroom.

Two further points. Neither you nor I have the expertise to judge Grimes conduct of nor explanation of the dog searches. He is the expert. Further I have never heard that the scent of blood could change over time to cadaver odour. Do you have a cite ?
Cite is Grime.  Eddie and Keela both alerted to the key fob.  The FSS found Gerry's DNA.   Gerry is not dead.

Grime's video shows him pricking his finger for a sample of blood, then hiding it.  Keela finds it and alerts to it.

Beyond that, it proves little.  I have no idea if Keela was trained or tested exclusively on human blood.

The following is a true story.

Our neighbour presented us with a gift two days ago.  It was a dead chicken, but still warm-  It's head had been removed, but otherwise it was entire, needing gutting and plucking.  Personally, I don't own a knife sharp enough to butcher a chicken.

So here's a question.  Would Keela have alerted to the chicken?  How would you train it to ignore a dead chicken?

By the way, my cadaver dog barks at lots of things he finds interesting.  And he lies with as many teeth as he has in his head.
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4001 on: February 27, 2019, 01:40:56 PM »
Cite is Grime.  Eddie and Keela both alerted to the key fob.  The FSS found Gerry's DNA.   Gerry is not dead.

Grime's video shows him pricking his finger for a sample of blood, then hiding it.  Keela finds it and alerts to it.

Beyond that, it proves little.  I have no idea if Keela was trained or tested exclusively on human blood.

The following is a true story.

Our neighbour presented us with a gift two days ago.  It was a dead chicken, but still warm-  It's head had been removed, but otherwise it was entire, needing gutting and plucking.  Personally, I don't own a knife sharp enough to butcher a chicken.

So here's a question.  Would Keela have alerted to the chicken?  How would you train it to ignore a dead chicken?

By the way, my cadaver dog barks at lots of things he finds interesting.  And he lies with as many teeth as he has in his head.

as I said you dont understand....eddie was not just a cadaver dog...he was a blood dog as well...that was his problem...true cadaver dogs do not react to blood...its a shame you wont be called to give evidence..it would be hilarious

Offline pathfinder73

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4002 on: February 27, 2019, 01:52:42 PM »
Cadaver dogs do react to blood, that is why a blood dog such as Keela was needed.

Both Keela and Eddie alerted to the area behind the couch....blood contamination possible.
Only Eddie alerted in the bedroom....cadaver scent contamination likely.

You see how it works ?

It is obviously too simple for many to understand *%87
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4003 on: February 27, 2019, 01:57:32 PM »
Cite is Grime.  Eddie and Keela both alerted to the key fob.  The FSS found Gerry's DNA.   Gerry is not dead.

Grime's video shows him pricking his finger for a sample of blood, then hiding it.  Keela finds it and alerts to it.

Beyond that, it proves little.  I have no idea if Keela was trained or tested exclusively on human blood.

The following is a true story.

Our neighbour presented us with a gift two days ago.  It was a dead chicken, but still warm-  It's head had been removed, but otherwise it was entire, needing gutting and plucking.  Personally, I don't own a knife sharp enough to butcher a chicken.

So here's a question.  Would Keela have alerted to the chicken?  How would you train it to ignore a dead chicken?

By the way, my cadaver dog barks at lots of things he finds interesting.  And he lies with as many teeth as he has in his head.

Keela alerts to blood. Eddie alerts to blood and cadaver odour. If Keela doesn’t alert and Eddie does then it is likely it is to cadaver odour. Therefore as both dogs alerted to the key fob the material on the key fob was likely to be blood.

‘The second dog that we've seen work today is the crime scene dog Keela. She will only indicate to me when she has found human blood, only human blood and it is only blood and there must be something there physically for her to be able to alert to me that's she has actually found something’
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4004 on: February 27, 2019, 01:57:51 PM »
Cadaver dogs do react to blood, that is why a blood dog such as Keela was needed.

Both Keela and Eddie alerted to the area behind the couch....blood contamination possible.
Only Eddie alerted in the bedroom....cadaver scent contamination likely.

You see how it works ?

I see how it works but you dont...cite for cadaver scent likely....there isnt one.....its cadaver scent possible.....do you see now..thats where almost every sceptic gets it wrong