Author Topic: Netflix - the Murat interview.  (Read 16677 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2019, 11:33:06 AM »

Read the bottom of the article.

As for the 'are you accusing Grime of manufacturing alerts?'    You said -  Firstly no I don’t think the parents moved the body after May 3rd.    end of quote,   so I say right back at you.   IMO

‘It’s not clear if a detectable scent could linger on her mother’s clothes for all that time’ says the man with no expertise.

As to the car both Keela and Eddie alerted to the car then it’s reasonable to assume that it was to blood.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2019, 11:36:19 AM »
I don't think Martin Grime is bright enough to manufacture alerts.  Subconciously is another thing.

Let’s be clear. If it is being said that Grime kept bringing Eddie back to the bedroom or the car you are accusing him of consciously cuing him.

As to the dig at Grime’s intelligence, that’s rather below you.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2019, 11:37:46 AM »
‘It’s not clear if a detectable scent could linger on her mother’s clothes for all that time’ says the man with no expertise.

As to the car both Keela and Eddie alerted to the car then it’s reasonable to assume that it was to blood.

is it ...why couldnt it be both

Offline faithlilly

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2019, 11:38:30 AM »
the dogs alerted   ..fact...the question is ..what is the value of those alerts...ask the experts

From Grime....the expert.

‘Whereas there may be no retrievable

evidence for court purposes this may well assist intelligence gathering in Major Crime

investigations. ‘
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #64 on: March 24, 2019, 11:41:09 AM »
Let’s be clear. If it is being said that Grime kept bringing Eddie back to the bedroom or the car you are accusing him of consciously cuing him.

As to the dig at Grime’s intelligence, that’s rather below you.

Horses for Courses.  Martin Grime is a Dog Handler, and remained a Constable throughout his Police Service.  Have I accused him of dishonesty?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2019, 11:44:23 AM »
Horses for Courses.  Martin Grime is a Dog Handler, and remained a Constable throughout his Police Service.  Have I accused him of dishonesty?

Do you think Grime deliberately brought Eddie back to the parent’s car and bedroom, if so then yes you are accusing him of dishonesty.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #66 on: March 24, 2019, 11:46:11 AM »
Do you think Grime deliberately brought Eddie back to the parent’s car and bedroom, if so then yes you are accusing him of dishonesty.

I think Martin Grime was being over diligent, but only in those two places.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #67 on: March 24, 2019, 11:48:37 AM »
I think Martin Grime was being over diligent, but only in those two places.

Why would he do that ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Lace

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2019, 11:59:19 AM »
‘It’s not clear if a detectable scent could linger on her mother’s clothes for all that time’ says the man with no expertise.

As to the car both Keela and Eddie alerted to the car then it’s reasonable to assume that it was to blood.

He has got expertise.

Eddie was supposed to have alerted to cadaver in the boot of the car wasn't he?

Offline Lace

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2019, 12:02:06 PM »
Do you think Grime deliberately brought Eddie back to the parent’s car and bedroom, if so then yes you are accusing him of dishonesty.

Of course he brought Eddie back deliberately,  he was calling him back what else could he be doing?   I'm not accusing him of dishonestly,  just that he wanted Eddie to have another sniff.   It comes to something when you can't debate without someone trying to accuse you of things.   I think Eddie was getting a bit fed up if you ask me and alerted to a scent probably something that had been on the floor or in the wardrobe. IMO

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2019, 12:14:28 PM »
I believe Eddie alerted to blood,   which had been there and taken away.   Eddie wouldn't have bothered with the McCann's bedroom if Grime hadn't kept calling him back,  they he barked probably because there was a faint scent coming from the wardrobe where dirty washing had been stored.   The clothes,  I wouldn't call that an alert,  Eddie sniffed them passed by them then suddenly barked picking them up in his mouth as if playing with them.   Cuddle cat,  well Eddie would have had plenty of time to alert to CC he picked it up and tossed it away.   The car?   come on do you honestly think the McCann's stored Madeline's body in a fridge?   and then put her in the car to transport her somewhere with all the journalists following them?   IMO

Eddie's behaviour changed as soon as he entered that apartment. If you think it was for blood traces found between/under a tile behind the sofa then I disagree. Eddie was professionally trained to detect cadaver odour (all cadaver dogs alert to blood). His first alert was at the wardrobe. Keela the blood dog didn't alert there! Keela did not alert to blood on clothes. They work as a team.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Lace

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2019, 12:22:33 PM »
Eddie's behaviour changed as soon as he entered that apartment. If you think it was for blood traces found between/under a tile behind the sofa then I disagree. Eddie was professionally trained to detect cadaver odour (all cadaver dogs alert to blood). His first alert was at the wardrobe. Keela the blood dog didn't alert there! Keela did not alert to blood on clothes. They work as a team.

Now you are going to argue that Eddie wouldn't alert to something which had had blood on it and had been taken away so that only the scent remained aren't you?    It just goes around in a circle IMO

Offline Lace

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #72 on: March 24, 2019, 12:29:36 PM »
Eddie's behaviour changed as soon as he entered that apartment. If you think it was for blood traces found between/under a tile behind the sofa then I disagree. Eddie was professionally trained to detect cadaver odour (all cadaver dogs alert to blood). His first alert was at the wardrobe. Keela the blood dog didn't alert there! Keela did not alert to blood on clothes. They work as a team.


Unfortunately, in such a situation the trier of fact may easily be misled as to both the accuracy and precision of the dog's actions: Accuracy in the sense that the dog (depending upon its level of training) may be reacting to something other than residual scent from decomposed human tissue; precision in that the dog may be reacting correctly to the scent of decomposed human tissue, but imprecise in the sense that the dog is not differentiating between whose decomposed human tissue is giving the scent. Further, there may be legitimate reasons for the scent being there: someone may have been injured and left bloody clothing there, someone may have left a used sanitary napkin, etc. Our research demonstrates that residual scent from decomposed human tissue persists in a closed building for many months at levels sufficient to cause a trained dog to alert.


Keela wouldn't alert to something which had had blood on it and had been taken away,  Eddie would IMO

Offline faithlilly

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #73 on: March 24, 2019, 12:46:06 PM »

Unfortunately, in such a situation the trier of fact may easily be misled as to both the accuracy and precision of the dog's actions: Accuracy in the sense that the dog (depending upon its level of training) may be reacting to something other than residual scent from decomposed human tissue; precision in that the dog may be reacting correctly to the scent of decomposed human tissue, but imprecise in the sense that the dog is not differentiating between whose decomposed human tissue is giving the scent. Further, there may be legitimate reasons for the scent being there: someone may have been injured and left bloody clothing there, someone may have left a used sanitary napkin, etc. Our research demonstrates that residual scent from decomposed human tissue persists in a closed building for many months at levels sufficient to cause a trained dog to alert.


Keela wouldn't alert to something which had had blood on it and had been taken away,  Eddie would IMO

I’m afraid you start from the premise of the parents are innocent and try to fit the evidence accordingly.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Netflix - the Murat interview.
« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2019, 01:08:00 PM »
British police dogs used and British police still investigating but don't expect too much re national security.

I quote Daily Mirror journalist Jon Clement’s article in February 2009 as one such example:
"A few days ago I received an interesting letter from Leicestershire police about the Madeleine McCann investigation. I had asked them, in July [2008], if they had got any warrants (under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act) to use surveillance powers - such as phone tapping and email interception on behalf of the Portuguese police. The force initially stalled saying it needed to ‘consult other Agencies’ before replying. After a six month delay, Leicestershire has now claimed it is exempt from Freedom of Information laws in this case due to ‘national security’. I've put in dozens of FOI requests to police forces over the years, some you get and some you don't but ‘national security’ is a new one on me. To make matters even murkier, Leicestershire claimed a second exemption because the information I requested could relate to ‘the Security bodies’. A quick look at the FOI Act reveals ‘Security bodies’ are MI5, MI6, GCHQ (pictured above), special forces (such as the SAS) and the Serious Organised Crime Agency. Hmm. Despite claiming these exemptions, Leicestershire seem at pains to neither confirm nor deny they hold any information relevant to my request anyway. Check out (slowly I suggest) the tortuous conclusion to the three page letter explaining their stance. It is our decision that the Leicestershire Constabulary must maintain a position of neither confirming nor denying that any relevant information is held and that this response, which neither confirms nor denies that information is held, should not be taken as conclusive evidence that the information you have requested exists or does not exist"."
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/information_about_the_costs_of_t
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.