Author Topic: Arise President Trump!  (Read 147242 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #285 on: November 12, 2016, 06:42:48 PM »
Since the Second World War there have been four... I think?
Korea: Syngman Rhee reckoned he was going to invade North Korea. Next thing he knew a ruck of North Korean tanks were sitting in his front garden. Well the N. Koreans probably thought he was being serious rather than trapping off. Then it degenerated into a proxy war between USSR and USA(UN) with Douglas MacArthur wanting to nuke the north.
VietNam: Started when the French thought they were going to move back into their old colonial powers in Indo China after the Jpas were evited in 1945/6. Ho stuck it up the French at Dien Bien Phu but the elections promised at the Geneva Accords were never held and the USA with its Domino Theory in full sway supported a couple of bandits running the show in the south. Remember the self immolation of a buddhist monk in protest ?
Ultimately Ho stuck it up the yanks in 1974 at the end of a sort of proxy war where the yanks fought but the USSR pumped in materiel through China.
Middle East: Which bit? Israel v Arabs ?. Well being neighbours with a bunch who have vowed to drive you into the sea can't be easy and concentrates the mind.
The bit where we supported Iraq when it was fighting Iran or the mess that has now been created ?.
Balkans: As soon as Tito turned his toes up and his boot heel came off the neck of the trouble makers ...bang we left the 20th century as we had entered it....approximatively
There is a bit of common thread running through there though.


'Middle East: Which bit? Israel v Arabs ?. Well being neighbours with a bunch who have vowed to drive you into the sea can't be easy and concentrates the mind.'

Have you forgotten that Israel holds a Nuclear arsenal reputed to be in the region of 80+ warheads, supplied by the Americans, and the Israelis refuse anyone to inspect any of their nuclear facilities.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/in-shocking-breach-u.s.-declassifies-document-revealing-some-of-israels-nuclear-capabilities/article/899638

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #286 on: November 12, 2016, 06:51:40 PM »
More from people who know what they're talking about, but no doubt Wonderfulspam knows better:

During the campaign, 10 former US nuclear launch officers, who once manned missile silos and held the keys necessary to execute a launch order, signed a letter saying Trump should not have his “finger on the button” because of his temperament.

One of those former officers, Bruce Blair, said that if US early warning radar showed the country was under attack by nuclear missiles, there would be time for a president to receive a briefing that could be as short as 30 seconds and the commander-in-chief would then have between three and 12 minutes to make up his mind. He would have to take into account that the early warning system had been wrong before and could be vulnerable to ever more sophisticated hacking.

“I think [Trump] lacks knowledge of the world, and knowledge of nuclear weapons and the consequences of their use. He’s not competent. He lashes out at the smallest provocation and he divides the world into winners and losers,” Blair said. “He’s a bully and I wouldn’t have confidence that he would be reasoned and restrained in a crisis.”

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #287 on: November 12, 2016, 06:55:41 PM »
More from people who know what they're talking about, but no doubt Wonderfulspam knows better:

During the campaign, 10 former US nuclear launch officers, who once manned missile silos and held the keys necessary to execute a launch order, signed a letter saying Trump should not have his “finger on the button” because of his temperament.

One of those former officers, Bruce Blair, said that if US early warning radar showed the country was under attack by nuclear missiles, there would be time for a president to receive a briefing that could be as short as 30 seconds and the commander-in-chief would then have between three and 12 minutes to make up his mind. He would have to take into account that the early warning system had been wrong before and could be vulnerable to ever more sophisticated hacking.

“I think [Trump] lacks knowledge of the world, and knowledge of nuclear weapons and the consequences of their use. He’s not competent. He lashes out at the smallest provocation and he divides the world into winners and losers,” Blair said. “He’s a bully and I wouldn’t have confidence that he would be reasoned and restrained in a crisis.”

Absolutely right.

Trump is also an ignoramus, and his knowledge of any science would be outshone by a 5 year old.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #288 on: November 12, 2016, 08:14:59 PM »
Now for those who claim Trump is a great business man........................


http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091?rm=eu

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #289 on: November 12, 2016, 09:59:44 PM »

'Middle East: Which bit? Israel v Arabs ?. Well being neighbours with a bunch who have vowed to drive you into the sea can't be easy and concentrates the mind.'

Have you forgotten that Israel holds a Nuclear arsenal reputed to be in the region of 80+ warheads, supplied by the Americans, and the Israelis refuse anyone to inspect any of their nuclear facilities.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/in-shocking-breach-u.s.-declassifies-document-revealing-some-of-israels-nuclear-capabilities/article/899638

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

No.
But then I am naive enough to believe that the late Chuck Sweeney will always be what he is now, in accordance with his own desires. So far so good.

"And then finally, there is evidence in the documents that one of the big considerations -- Paul Nitze particularly on the Policy Planning Staff was thinking along this line - what if you use the bomb and nothing happens? Then you have not only failed in the immediate context of the Korean War, but you've called into question the entire credibility of the bomb on a worldwide basis. So what Nitze was grasping toward when he was thinking along these lines in 1952 and 1953, is the paradox that the only way that you can make the atomic bomb credible is precisely by not using it, by keeping it out there as a kind of mysterious, awesome force - that to use it would actually be to cheapen it somehow".
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #290 on: November 12, 2016, 10:26:42 PM »
No.
But then I am naive enough to believe that the late Chuck Sweeney will always be what he is now, in accordance with his own desires. So far so good.

"And then finally, there is evidence in the documents that one of the big considerations -- Paul Nitze particularly on the Policy Planning Staff was thinking along this line - what if you use the bomb and nothing happens? Then you have not only failed in the immediate context of the Korean War, but you've called into question the entire credibility of the bomb on a worldwide basis. So what Nitze was grasping toward when he was thinking along these lines in 1952 and 1953, is the paradox that the only way that you can make the atomic bomb credible is precisely by not using it, by keeping it out there as a kind of mysterious, awesome force - that to use it would actually be to cheapen it somehow".

A brief reminder.


Nuclear weapons are only a deterrent if those behind the buttons are too scared to push them. We now have a child in a man's body who is known for his tantrums in 'charge' of the second largest nuclear arsenal.

Let's hope when he has a tantrum after taking office, if he gets that far, that someone will do the world a favour. 8)-)))

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #291 on: November 12, 2016, 11:06:35 PM »
A brief reminder.


Nuclear weapons are only a deterrent if those behind the buttons are too scared to push them. We now have a child in a man's body who is known for his tantrums in 'charge' of the second largest nuclear arsenal.

Let's hope when he has a tantrum after taking office, if he gets that far, that someone will do the world a favour. 8)-)))

So who in your book is favourite to have one lobbed in on them by the geezer with desert disease and the funny haircut ?

Whether he is good bad or indifferent he has congress and the house of representatives to keep him on track. The power to declare war rests with congress not the president although that can be circumvented to an extent, see Korea and VietNam. The process for launching a nuclear strike is a bit more complex than "'ere I didn't like that tweet you sent about me you s.o.b ; Do y'all like mushrooms ? then cop this one"... boom. It involves the Secretary of Defense who has to approve the order.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #292 on: November 12, 2016, 11:11:22 PM »
So who in your book is favourite to have one lobbed in on them by the geezer with desert disease and the funny haircut ?

Whether he is good bad or indifferent he has congress and the house of representatives to keep him on track. The power to declare war rests with congress not the president although that can be circumvented to an extent, see Korea and VietNam. The process for launching a nuclear strike is a bit more complex than "'ere I didn't like that tweet you sent about me you s.o.b ; Do y'all like mushrooms ? then cop this one"... boom. It involves the Secretary of Defense who has to approve the order.

I am well aware of that.

However, you miss the point. Trump will surround himself with cronies who do his bidding.

You near to study this man-child, to understand the nature of the beast.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #293 on: November 12, 2016, 11:24:49 PM »
I am well aware of that.

However, you miss the point. Trump will surround himself with cronies who do his bidding.

You near to study this man-child, to understand the nature of the beast.

You didn't answer my question. Who do you think is top of the shop for Trump to lob one at and why would he?

"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline mercury

Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #294 on: November 12, 2016, 11:59:20 PM »
What has he said exactly that incites violence & hatred?

When a leader endorses the populations grievances and prejudices and therefore fires then up its called incitement
especially when they dont offer peaceful  solutions
But offer more petrol for the fire

But no worries hes been calmed down by obama and the facts are he cant create any laws nhe facts are he has withdrawn on many issues

So its  better now but we have so many riots against him....hs own fault

« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 01:09:58 PM by John »

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #295 on: November 13, 2016, 03:52:42 AM »
You didn't answer my question. Who do you think is top of the shop for Trump to lob one at and why would he?

You didn't understand my answer.

Now I RECOMMEND you take some time and study Trump's background.

and if you can't see how dangerous this man is, you never will, now he is in a position of real power.

Imagine Sarah Palin as his Secretary of Defence......

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #296 on: November 13, 2016, 09:47:47 AM »
An excellent article in today's Observer by Andrew Rawnsley..........

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/13/donald-trump-election-terrifying-president-global-economy-security

Set your alarm clock. On 20 January 2017, Donald Trump will take up residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, the most stunning real-estate acquisition in the history of the modern world. In the time of transition between then and now, the apprentice president will be taught how to use the nuclear codes. He will also participate in a simulated crisis, a war game designed to better his understanding of how the White House deals with the unexpected.

For a trumpfounded world, as for many in his own country, his election is the Black Swan event of a generation. A serial bankrupt will be at the wheel of the world’s largest economy. A man with no experience of elected office will preside over a government machine with 2.8 million civilian employees and 1.5 million military personnel. A man who will be pursued into the White House by a pack of lawsuits will be in charge of the FBI. A man repeatedly described as unfit for the office by senior members of his own party will be the commander-in-chief with his finger on the trigger of more than 4,000 nuclear warheads. A man who knows little about the rest of the world will become the most powerful person on the planet. Two-thirds of Americans told pollsters that he lacks the temperament to be president, but he is going to be put in the high seat anyway.

One way to deal with a shock of such magnitude is to try to reduce it to more digestible proportions by telling yourself that it will not be as terrible as first feared. This is how some of the humiliated political establishment in the US are trying to cope with their nightmare. Some here and elsewhere in Europe are also trying to process their horror by telling themselves that he can be controlled. They endeavour to normalise the idea of President Trump by telling us that a man who bid for power by trampling over democratic norms will be constrained by the traditional boundaries once he has office. On this comforting account of the future, the Terrifying Trump of the campaign trail will morph into Tamed Trump. The most optimistic types even conjecture that he might evolve into a version of Ronald Reagan, highly scary to much of the planet when first elected, but a president who ultimately ushered the world towards a peaceful conclusion to the cold war.

Well, being an optimist by disposition, I would like to think that the rosy view is correct, because if he unleashes a fraction of the things he has threatened, he will be calamitous for America and the planet. But there are multiple grounds for scepticism about the sanguine view of President Trump. To believe he will turn into some sort of benign figure repeats the mistake constantly made as he marched on power. Some of those saying that he will be caged by office are the same people who said that no candidate could ever secure the White House by disparaging and demonising so many segments of the electorate. Yet get there he has. Orthodoxy contended that no candidate could prevail by trampling on so many democratic norms, among them threatening to lock up his opponent if he won and refusing to concede defeat if he lost. Yet prevail he did. Having secured the White House by shredding so many conventions, it takes one hell of a leap of faith to believe that he will now be controlled by the traditional rules

Another reason to be doubtful of the Tamed Trump thesis is the nature of his mandate. He has made the ritual noises of conciliation that follow every election by saying he will seek to govern for “all Americans”, but those hoary cliches sound especially empty coming from his lips. He did not gain ascendancy on a promise of unity and compromise, but by running on a platform of resentment, rage and bigotry. He was the most polarising presidential candidate of my lifetime.

He is already an epically divisive president before he has even take the inaugural oath. This will be compounded because the “Trump triumph” is a building without concrete foundations. He lost the popular vote, only gaining the White House thanks to the eccentricities of the American electoral system. Just one in four Americans voted to put him there, which is worth bearing in mind whenever you hear anyone calling this a “revolution” or a “popular insurgency”.

What Teddy Roosevelt dubbed “the bully pulpit” of the presidency can give its holder enormous sway over the emotions of that nation. At times of crisis, a president can cool passions or inflame them, stoke divisions or try to bridge them. I think we already have clues aplenty about what President Trump will do with the bully pulpit. There are compelling reasons to be fearful about how a man of his temperament will respond when he fails to make good on his many undeliverable promises. His impulse will be to try to displace the blame by unleashing the demagogic furies against minorities and foreigners.

His election presents the most serious challenge to the international order that has prevailed since 1945
Some of his more prominent supporters have been telling the world that it can relax because his wilder statements and more outlandish pledges were not meant to be taken seriously. It was just “campaign shtick”, a comic routine. You know he is a liar; take comfort in that. He has indeed flipped and flopped over a host of issues, but on some themes he has been as constant as the northern star. He lies a lot, but he does not lie all the time. There are critical policy areas in which he should be taken both literally and seriously. He is an economic nationalist. He has been clear and consistent about that and over many years. When he told America that it had been “raped” by cheap imports from China, he believed it – and so did his voters. That was key to his victories in the rust belt states in the midwest.

Some Brexiters are getting excited by the idea that he will fast-track a sweetheart trade deal for Britain. They should have a cold shower. A Trump presidency will not be friendly to the free trade on which so much of global prosperity now depends. There is a real and serious danger of a slide into protectionism or, worse, a full-scale tariff war of the sort that was so ruinous in the 1930s. Believe him when he says he will put “America first”. He may have stolen the slogan from previous iterations of American nativism and isolationism, but he has made it his own and made it resonant with voters weary of foreign entanglements, foreign workers and foreigners in general. His election presents the most serious challenge to the international order that has prevailed since 1945. “The leader of the free world” has often played the role imperfectly, but the lazy assumption of the rest of the world’s democracies, especially those in Europe, has been that it could always be relied on to be there. We now see how complacent that was.

He is not the first American to say that its allies have been freeloading. Europeans have for too long relied on the US to be the guarantor of their security without asking themselves how long an increasingly resentful America would be willing to pick up a disproportionate amount of the bill. What is scarily novel about him is that he is the first incoming American president to have declared, in language noted in Moscow and Beijing, that his commitment to Nato and the security pacts with Japan and South Korea is ambiguous.

President Trump will be an especially bracing experience for a Britain that is already in the processing of severing itself from its other historic alliance with the EU. Successive British prime ministers have flattered themselves and their citizens with the idea that this country has a unique bond with the US that awards it privileged access to the Oval Office and amplified influence on the world stage. Any signs to the contrary have been a cause of alarm. When Barack Obama was elected president, it was reported as a great slight that he had a longer first phone call with Nicolas Sarkozy, then the French president, than he did with Gordon Brown. Theresa May was put on hold until Donald Trump had talked to nine other leaders before she finally got to exchange banalities about “the special relationship”. Downing Street has no links to the next American president or his inner circle. Neither does anyone else in Europe.

British ministers are deriving comfort from the idea that he is essentially a deal-maker, a man who once said: “Everything is negotiable.” Where they find reassurance, I see cause for great alarm in an entirely transactional, values-free American foreign policy that no longer feels any moral responsibility to champion liberty, human rights and the rule of law. Just hear the delight being expressed by autocrats the world over.

The gravest threat to the planet is a conflict between major powers. We were already in the throes of a turbulent transition from American dominance into a multi-polar world. Even the most level-headed leadership would struggle to manage that massive geopolitical adjustment. That is why the temperament of Donald Trump, a thin-skinned narcissist prone to react to the slightest provocation by lashing out, so terrifies so many.

By all means hope for the best. It will make it easier to sleep at night. The sensible will prepare for the worst. •
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 10:21:32 AM by stephen25000 »

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #297 on: November 13, 2016, 12:23:43 PM »
You didn't understand my answer.

Now I RECOMMEND you take some time and study Trump's background.

and if you can't see how dangerous this man is, you never will, now he is in a position of real power.

Imagine Sarah Palin as his Secretary of Defence......

Pardon me for being so kin thick.
Perhaps you should explain it better. Language is after all the art of communication.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #298 on: November 13, 2016, 12:38:51 PM »
Pardon me for being so kin thick.
Perhaps you should explain it better. Language is after all the art of communication.

Try reading the post before this.

It might help. 8((()*/

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Arise President Trump!
« Reply #299 on: November 13, 2016, 01:47:57 PM »
Try reading the post before this.

It might help. 8((()*/

I lost interest after:
"A serial bankrupt will be at the wheel of the world’s largest economy. A man with no experience of elected office will preside over a government machine with 2.8 million civilian employees and 1.5 million military personnel".
It is inaccurate wrt to the bankruptcy bit because Trump as an individual has never been bankrupt and it shows a lack of understanding of what Trump's companies did within the US bancruptcy laws; in essence to retain control and restructure at someone elses expense. Immoral yes, illegal no, crafty yes... &%+((£
He remains the hundred a diddlyth richest bloke in The States so to suggest he has no business acumen is stretching a point.
Richard Nixon was serial liar as was Hillary Clinton. Eisenhower lied to Kruschev about the Gary Powers incident resulting in Nikita stomping out of a summit meeting, so nothing new there

http://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-basics/chapter-11-bankruptcy-basics

In four years time Trump will either stand down, seek re-election or the prophesised armageddon will have occurred.
The danger I see is similar the one Syngman Rhee had in Korea in 1950. Some nutter will believe what Trump says, if he doesn't tone it down*, or worse what the MSM say he says, and as a consequence lob one in on him as a pre-emptive strike.
Current warfare waged by the Yanks is no place for nuclear strikes it would be the wrong taxdiscs when iron bombs are good enough. Nuclear is mostly for destroying cities.

* read Kilcullen to find out what George W Bush was really like when there no cameras or reporters about. That may give a clue.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey