What constitutes child neglect?

[debunker]

Imagine you've hired a babysitter and gone out for the evening. Your babysitter goes out just for half an hour. Your child is abducted while she is gone.

Who would you blame?
Would you be sympathetic with your babysitter?

Imagine that situation and then tell me the McCanns behaved responsibly

Irrelevant.  The McCanns weren't paying a baby sitter.

That Eleanor was just one of their failings.

IN your ever so humble (not) opinion it was a failing.

THe law gives them the right to act in that manner.

[Rachel Granada]

Imagine you've hired a babysitter and gone out for the evening. Your babysitter goes out just for half an hour. Your child is abducted while she is gone.

Who would you blame?
Would you be sympathetic with your babysitter?

Imagine that situation and then tell me the McCanns behaved responsibly

Hello and welcome Daisydoo.  That is a very good point that you raise, and one that I have pondered over in the past. I think that the McCann's decision to leave the children unsupervised was wrong.  However I don't really think they could have imagined anything like this happening.  They were operating their own baby-listening service and sadly this was to have a terrible result.  It was a stupid thing to do IMO but they must be feeling distraught and I won't use this as a stick to beat them with as it is not my place to do so.

[debunker]

Imagine you've hired a babysitter and gone out for the evening. Your babysitter goes out just for half an hour. Your child is abducted while she is gone.

Who would you blame?
Would you be sympathetic with your babysitter?

Imagine that situation and then tell me the McCanns behaved responsibly

Hello and welcome Daisydoo.  That is a very good point that you raise, and one that I have ponde

red over in the past. I think that the McCann's decision to leave the children unsupervised was wrong.  However I don't really think they could have imagined anything like this happening.  They were operating their own baby-listening service and sadly this was to have a terrible result.  It was a stupid thing to do IMO but they must be feeling distraught and I won't use this as a stick to beat them with as it is not my place to do so.

This all seems so simple to me.

We live in a free society, liberal and governed by rule of law.

The basic principle (unlike Roman/Napoleonic Law historically) is "that which has not been ruled illegal, is legal"

So people are free to act in any way that offends others which has not been deemed illegal.

What standing does any n......... here have in any discussion about their chilcare. Two legal systems have found it to be legal.

ANy moral person would shut up.

[stephen25000]

Imagine you've hired a babysitter and gone out for the evening. Your babysitter goes out just for half an hour. Your child is abducted while she is gone.

Who would you blame?
Would you be sympathetic with your babysitter?

Imagine that situation and then tell me the McCanns behaved responsibly

Irrelevant.  The McCanns weren't paying a baby sitter.

That Eleanor was just one of their failings.

IN your ever so humble (not) opinion it was a failing.

THe law gives them the right to act in that manner.

As a consequence of their neglect Madeleine disappeared.

She and her siblings were left alone, with no back-up and no supervision,bar irregular 'checks'.

The regularity of which has never been verified.

However, the law does not give them the right to exhibit negligence.

For that Madeleine paid the price.

[debunker]

Imagine you've hired a babysitter and gone out for the evening. Your babysitter goes out just for half an hour. Your child is abducted while she is gone.

Who would you blame?
Would you be sympathetic with your babysitter?

Imagine that situation and then tell me the McCanns behaved responsibly

Irrelevant.  The McCanns weren't paying a baby sitter.

That Eleanor was just one of their failings.

IN your ever so humble (not) opinion it was a failing.

THe law gives them the right to act in that manner.

As a consequence of their neglect Madeleine disappeared.

She and her siblings were left alone, with no back-up and no supervision,bar irregular 'checks'.



The regularity of which has never been verified.

However, the law does not give them the right to exhibit negligence.



For that Madeleine paid the price.

Neglect is a criminal offence for which they have been excused in two jurisdictions.

Certainly their behaviour led to the possibility of Madeleine disappearing but no criminal neglect occurred.

CAlling it neglect is just misuse of English by a sad [ censored word ].

[Eleanor]

Imagine you've hired a babysitter and gone out for the evening. Your babysitter goes out just for half an hour. Your child is abducted while she is gone.

Who would you blame?
Would you be sympathetic with your babysitter?

Imagine that situation and then tell me the McCanns behaved responsibly

Irrelevant.  The McCanns weren't paying a baby sitter.

That Eleanor was just one of their failings.

I can't comment on their failings since I did precisely the same as they did on occasions.  But then I allowed my children to run free all over the bloody place, and often heaven knows where.  As long as they were home by dark.  I even dumped them in some God forsaken Wood and left them Camping alone when they were well below the age of eleven.  I just went there every morning to light their rotten camp fire because I was better at it than they were.

I doubt that I would be so cavalier with my grandchildren, but then they aren't actually my business.

[Eleanor]

No doubt Debunker would disagree with me.  He would never do what I did.  But it is only a difference of opinion.  Nothing that I did was was illegal, or even neglect. 
And funnily enough, we have never discussed it, even on the many occasions in Private, when we could have done.
He appears to believe that The McCanns should not have done what they did.  And I don't feel the same way, because I did.  Hypocrisy or what on my part if I critisised them?  I cannot do this.  So we have never actually talked about what he thinks of me.

But, you see, he and I have common ground.  We both loath what has been done and is still being done to two people who have never been charged with anything.

[debunker]

No doubt Debunker would disagree with me.  He would never do what I did.  But it is only a difference of opinion.  Nothing that I did was was illegal, or even neglect. 
And funnily enough, we have never discussed it, even on the many occasions in Private, when we could have done.
He appears to believe that The McCanns should not have done what they did.  And I don't feel the same way, because I did.  Hypocrisy or what on my part if I critisised them?  I cannot do this.  So we have never actually talked about what he thinks of me.

But, you see, he and I have common ground.  We both loath what has been done and is still being done to two people who have never been charged with anything.

I don't think what you did was wrong. It was a different decision to the one I would have taken. There is no judging of moral correctness, just a recognition of difference.

This is an adult, rational, non-judgemental approach.

Recommended as a learning curve for [ censored word ]s.

[Eleanor]

No doubt Debunker would disagree with me.  He would never do what I did.  But it is only a difference of opinion.  Nothing that I did was was illegal, or even neglect. 
And funnily enough, we have never discussed it, even on the many occasions in Private, when we could have done.
He appears to believe that The McCanns should not have done what they did.  And I don't feel the same way, because I did.  Hypocrisy or what on my part if I critisised them?  I cannot do this.  So we have never actually talked about what he thinks of me.

But, you see, he and I have common ground.  We both loath what has been done and is still being done to two people who have never been charged with anything.

I don't think what you did was wrong. It was a different decision to the one I would have taken. There is no judging of moral correctness, just a recognition of difference.

This is an adult, rational, non-judgemental approach.

Recommended as a learning curve for [ censored word ]s.

No, Love, I never did think that you morally judged me.  You have never given me that impression in all of the six years that I have known you.  Not once, not ever.  But I cannot condemn The McCanns for something that I did myself.  And neither can I apologise for what I did.

I would most certainly never do it again, and I would give my children a terrible hard time  if I thought that they might do it.  But that is hindsight I suspect.

I do understand what you are saying.  I always have.  But sometimes it gets a bit convoluted. 
Such a pity that you never posted on Sites on which I was a Moderator.  I tolerated much, much worse than you have ever been.  And the only thing that ever worried me was downright Libel.

[Eleanor]

Hi, Neely.  I have missed you.  You were fun in a sea of raging fights, which I have to say never bothered me at all.  But I used to stay up half the night waiting for The Libel.  But all gone before they ever saw the light of day.  No one knows how many posts I deleted.  I never acknowledged that they even happened.  Just Whoosh, Clunk.

[icabodcrane]

Imagine you've hired a babysitter and gone out for the evening. Your babysitter goes out just for half an hour. Your child is abducted while she is gone.

Who would you blame?
Would you be sympathetic with your babysitter?

Imagine that situation and then tell me the McCanns behaved responsibly

Hello and welcome Daisydoo.  That is a very good point that you raise, and one that I have ponde

red over in the past. I think that the McCann's decision to leave the children unsupervised was wrong.  However I don't really think they could have imagined anything like this happening.  They were operating their own baby-listening service and sadly this was to have a terrible result.  It was a stupid thing to do IMO but they must be feeling distraught and I won't use this as a stick to beat them with as it is not my place to do so.

This all seems so simple to me.

We live in a free society, liberal and governed by rule of law.

The basic principle (unlike Roman/Napoleonic Law historically) is "that which has not been ruled illegal, is legal"

So people are free to act in any way that offends others which has not been deemed illegal.

What standing does any n......... here have in any discussion about their chilcare. Two legal systems have found it to be legal.

ANy moral person would shut up.

I'm confused  ...  what are we discussing here,   legal obligations,  or moral obligations  ?  ..  you have brought both into the arguement without making the clear distinction between the two 

[stephen25000]

As a consequence of the criminal actions of a stranger Madeleine disappeared.  That is the opinion of Scotland Yard and one I happen to share.

Not quite.

Redwood in the interview admitted both possibilities, she might be alive or dead. He hoped to find her alive.

However, the team includes members of the squad who helped in the conviction of Barry George, in the Dando case. They got that wrong.

[stephen25000]

Imagine you've hired a babysitter and gone out for the evening. Your babysitter goes out just for half an hour. Your child is abducted while she is gone.

Who would you blame?
Would you be sympathetic with your babysitter?

Imagine that situation and then tell me the McCanns behaved responsibly

Irrelevant.  The McCanns weren't paying a baby sitter.

That Eleanor was just one of their failings.

IN your ever so humble (not) opinion it was a failing.

THe law gives them the right to act in that manner.

As a consequence of their neglect Madeleine disappeared.

She and her siblings were left alone, with no back-up and no supervision,bar irregular 'checks'.



The regularity of which has never been verified.

However, the law does not give them the right to exhibit negligence.



For that Madeleine paid the price.

Neglect is a criminal offence for which they have been excused in two jurisdictions.

Certainly their behaviour led to the possibility of Madeleine disappearing but no criminal neglect occurred.

CAlling it neglect is just misuse of English by a sad [ censored word ].

An only too predictable response in the use of '[ censored word ]'.

Having seen examples of your 'work' elsewhere, that's par for the course though.

Stop pretending to be neutral, you are anything but that.

The Mccanns neglected their children as other members of the group.

They had no excuse and should have known better. Placing socializing over their children's safety in an unknown country is and was inexcusable. I'm not even counting the possibility of the other children having accidents. To leave children without due care is not exactly in the N.S.P.C.C. 'guidelines' for child care. Infrequent 'visits' were insufficient as proved the case, and as they latterly claimed it was an unlocked apartment, after first claiming it was locked.

As I said, inexcusable.
.

[debunker]

Neglect is a criminal offence in Portugal and the UK. To accuse them of neglect is to accuse them of a crim O'Neal offence and as neither system proceeded a faintest the, that is an error and that makes your statement defamatory and potentially harassing.

The FACTS are:

The McCanns acted in a particular manner regarding childcare.

That was a decision within the law and hence not criminal

Neither you nor I believe that they acted in a manner that suits our moralities.

What we think has no value in deciding anything about the case.

This is the essence of common law- what is not specifically illegal, is legal.

[stephen25000]

For reference purposes................


'The law does not set a minimum age at which children can be left alone. However, it is an offence to leave a child alone when doing so puts him or her at risk.'


http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-advice/for-parents-and-carers/parenting-advice/home-alone/home-alone_wda90761.html