Forensics

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Where there any signs of Lividity???

Did Lividity show that the body had been moved???

The Lividity that would have been on Joanna Yeates body, should have revealed if the body had been moved?? whether she had been placed on her back in the bedroom..

Whether she had lain in a different position in Dr Vincent Tabak's flat and whether or not her position had changed when taken out of the car boot...

If Dr Vincent Tabak had tried to put Joanna Yeates over the wall what position was she in???

Did he just drop her on the verge?? did she land the same way around that she had been placed in the boot of the Car??

There should have been several sites to show the body had been moved... where these visible in the Autopsy photographs??

  LIVIDITY

The term lividity refers to an unnatural color of the skin. Lividity can be a useful reaction in determining the position of a body at the time of death and even whether a body was moved within the first few hours after death.
There are various forms of lividity. In a living person, a blow can result in the localized rupturing of cells and the pooling of blood . When the blood cells begin to decompose, the release of the blood forms a bluish-purple bruise.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/law/crime-and-law-enforcement/lividity

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Just thinking about the position in which Joanna Yeates body was found in....

She was in a Foetal Position with one hand around her head and the other hand around her body...

Was her body Posed???

The position makes it sound like she had been in a bicycle bag and put in a car boot... But is that so???

If Rigor Mortis had already started then her position would not have changed??

If her top being lifted up to expose her chest area would surely have happened before if Rigor had started??

So this would not have happened trying to place a body over a wall... You would have thought that if there was NO Rigor and Dr Vincent Tabak was trying to show that this was an accidental death ...

When he was covering the body with leaves he would have made sure to pull her Pink Flower Patterned Top back down to make her look like nothing sexual had happened whatsoever!!!

So therefore... Did she have Rigor Mortis when she was placed on Longwood Lane and was that why her arms were in the position she was in???

If... Rigor Mortis had set in the again.. why doesn't the Defence or Prosecution mention this....

It wasn't questioned that her Top had been pulled up in the flat???

And again.. surely Dr Vincent tabak would have pulled this Top back down so it indeed looked like it was a possible accident???

(1): Had Rigor Mortis already set in when she was brought to Longwood Lane

(2): Had her body been posed??

No real probing questions were made in relation to how Dr Vincent Tabak tried to lift her body over the wall??

Which way was she facing?? did he have her standing up and him supporting the weight??

Did he put her waist on the wall and try and lever her over... Or was she in the foetal position already??

If she was in the foetal Position when he arrived at Longwood lane, then how did the blood transfer???

Her arm was raised above her head... surely her arm would have come into contact with the wall first??

Blood doesn't drip from a dead body... so where did the blood come from???

Why wasn't Dr Vincent Tabak questioned on whether or not he had posed Joanna Yeates body into the foetal position in an attempt to hide her body???

Did someone pose the body exposing her chest to suggest that this was indeed a sexually motivated attack??

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Only you have suggested that Dr White was for the Defence, and you have also immediately scotched that theory, by pointing out that several days were to elapse before there was a defendant with a lawyer who needed to appoint an independent pathologist.

In any case, we don't know if Dr White is actually an accredited pathologist. The timing leads me to believe that his role was as Dr Jennifer Miller's go-between. In that capacity, he could vouch to her for the integrity of the evidence taken the cadaver which he delivered to her in Glasgow, and Dr Delaney could vouch for Dr White. The prosecution had this evidence sent out of the country to a different jurisdiction, most probably to make it harder for Vincent Tabak's lawyers to requisition it for their own independent gastroarchaeologist to examine.

It's enough to make the mind boggle and the stomach to turn over.

I've been trying to find Dr White....  and I came up with this person.... might NOT be correct, but it brought and Idea that hadn't been looked at...

Qualifications: BMSC (First Class Honours), BDS with Honours, MFDS RCPSGlasg, PhD, FRCPath

I qualified in dentistry at Dundee Dental School in 1996 and completed General Professional Training prior to working in general practice. Following SHO and clinical research posts, I was awarded a MRC Clinical Research Training Fellowship and obtained a PhD in Human Genetics. After specialist training in Oral and Maxillofacial Pathology in Ninewells Hospital & Medical School, I was appointed Senior Lecturer/Honorary Consultant in Oral Pathology, University of Dundee.

Nobody has ever questioned what Joanna Yeates mouth condition was like ....  did they take imppressions incase she bit her assailant???

Or was there something else about Joanna Yeates mouth that they may have need an Oral Proffesional....

Obviously that is me just wondering... because I don't know if it's the Correct Dr White!! But she also is in Scotland...

http://dentistry.dundee.ac.uk/staff-member/dr-sharon-j-white

[John]

Low temperature can affect the onset of rigor mortis drastically.  Taken to an extreme it can delay or stop it altogether.  Once a cadaver is thawed, rigor mortis will continue at room temperature.

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Low temperature can affect the onset of rigor mortis drastically.  Taken to an extreme it can delay or stop it altogether.  Once a cadaver is thawed, rigor mortis will continue at room temperature.

That's my question John.... If she had been dumped outside on the 17th December 2010 in Freezing conditions and had been dead for approx 2 hours by this time...  Rigor Mortis could have just about started...


So she has to be thawed and examined after thawing... So Once thawed Rigor Mortis would have continued...

How then could Dr Delaney complete his autopsy on a body in full Rigor????

He did this in less than 56 hours... How is that possible???

The only other explanation is that she was either alive later than the 17th December 2010 or was dumped on Longwood Lane later,.... which Dr Vincent Tabak couldn't have done!!!!

[John]

That's my question John.... If she had been dumped outside on the 17th December 2010 in Freezing conditions and had been dead for approx 2 hours by this time...  Rigor Mortis could have just about started...


So she has to be thawed and examined after thawing... So Once thawed Rigor Mortis would have continued...

How then could Dr Delaney complete his autopsy on a body in full Rigor????

He did this in less than 56 hours... How is that possible???

The only other explanation is that she was either alive later than the 17th December 2010 or was dumped on Longwood Lane later,.... which Dr Vincent Tabak couldn't have done!!!!

Why couldn't a pathologist undertake an autopsy while rigor mortis continues?

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Why couldn't a pathologist undertake an autopsy while rigor mortis continues?

(IMO).......
Rigor Mortis is usually used to estimate the time of death in an autopsy.... As they had indicated they had NO idea as to the time of death of Joanna Yeates, then this would be of NO value to the examination...

Dr Delaney would need the body too be flaccid so he could conduct his autopsy... with the body being in the foetal position he would not be able to complete this task......

And with all the muscles contracting they could not give a clear indication as to the cause of death....

But Im sure you probably already knew or had researched that John.....

[John]

(IMO).......
Rigor Mortis is usually used to estimate the time of death in an autopsy.... As they had indicated they had NO idea as to the time of death of Joanna Yeates, then this would be of NO value to the examination...

Dr Delaney would need the body too be flaccid so he could conduct his autopsy... with the body being in the foetal position he would not be able to complete this task......

And with all the muscles contracting they could not give a clear indication as to the cause of death....

But Im sure you probably already knew or had researched that John.....

That's probably why more than one examination took place.

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That's probably why more than one examination took place.

(1):So who did the Examinations?

(2):How Long does it take a Body to Thaw?

(3): After Thawing how long will it take Rigor mortis to end?

(4): Have you got enough time to complete this in less than 56 hours ?

I'll add them to the hundred questions...!!!

[John]

Did the missing sock ever turn up?

[Leonora]

Did the missing sock ever turn up?

No, though DCI Phil Jones must have hunted high and low hoping to find it in Vincent Tabak's trophy store. Vincent Tabak himself told the court that he took the sock and the pizza "because he wasn't thinking straight", and disposed of them in a rubbish bin. This didn't stop DCI Phil Jones from repeating his self-defeating trophy theory in interviews he gave after the trial.

In my opinion, the sock was never where it ought to have been in the first place.

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Question.........

Why two Forensic Tents at Longwood Lane.. ??

They say Joanna Yeates wasn't in them.....   Any one else missing at the time ???

When Rebecca Scott says something about her friends being dead.... it made me wonder .... she makes a slip and corrects herself on the video of her ...

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Just another thought........

Quite often when autopsy happen a Police Officer can be in attendance... I'm surprised we haven't heard that there was.... being such a big case...

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I don't understand your question. Dr Delaney said he "glimpsed" the body on Christmas day, and then made two post-mortem examinations at the mortuary before DCI Phil Jones met the press. Much later, a mysterious Dr White "examined" the body in the presence of Dr Delaney. The timings of this examination, the press release stating that Joanna had not eaten the pizza, and the arrest of Vincent Tabak, have every appearance of being co-ordinated, and of being intended to prevent anyone else from examining the stomach contents.

I agree with you that the lack of any toxicology evidence is suspicious, but absence of evidence is not as useful as evidence of absence. It is particularly annoying that the press has been totally silent about the very existence of the inquest, instead of reporting that it had been opened and adjourned. That suggests to me that the press have been compromised.

I found another Dr White leonora.... he's in Bristol...   Bristol CardioVascular


http://www.bristol.ac.uk/cardiovascular/people/steve-j-white/index.html

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 How is it that I keep finding oddities with this case ??

The guy that hands the Sock into the police... seems to hand it in twice...  I've attached some photo's of him handing in the sock.. Yet, I have now discovered a small video from Getty... and he approaches the gate whilst it is closed and pops the article into a forensics bag... Why do they allow him to put anything into a Forensic bag??

He cannot hand the Sock over twice... we also have images of him walking down the drive with a Police officer... Why is he in the drive of Canygne Road??  Why have they allowed this random member of the public to be on the premises of Canygne Road??   He shouldn't be ??

Then continues to walk along the front of Canygne Road past Joanna Yeates gate...  Thought he had turned up from the opposite direction ?

When did he hand the sock in??? The article is 5th January 2011 ... which is the exact day they released the Police Conference about the Sock missing... WEIRD!


Why is the The PCSO Officer dealing with such an Important piece of possible evidence ???... She is handling the Forensic bag with no gloves !!

What training has the PCSO Office done in Protecting the Scene of Crime ??

On the Getty Video clip.... how have they managed to get in so close to the member of the public who hands the sock in??
On the image... we see the sock being handed in... but on the video you cannot see the sock clearly... He puts it in the bag himself on the video... Yet on the still image the WHOLE SOCK is visible....how is that possible...?


Has anybody seen these Getty video's before ??

http://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/video/exterior-shots-man-handing-a-police-officer-grey-sock-man-news-footage/456732193

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1344276/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Strangled-sock.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/thousands-of-untrained-police-community-support-officers-putting-lives-and-evidence-at-risk-a6900256.html

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