UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: colsville on July 14, 2021, 08:52:48 PM
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I thought I'd have a look and see when or if that Sky Crime doc on Jeremy Bamber was going to be broadcast. I couldn't find anything on Sky, so I looked at Mindhouse productions website and they have it 'advertised' there.
https://mindhouse.co.uk/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm
What's interesting is that it is now a 4 x 60 minute documentary rather than the 3 x 60 minutes that they were saying back in January.
At 4 hours it sounds like it's going to be a very comprehensive documentary. That should be plenty of time to examine the propaganda and lies spewed out by Bamber and his support group over the years.
And then I did a search for 'Mindhouse' and 'Bamber' and found a tweet from April from the JB Campaign team....and they sound really spooked by this doc. They are not happy. They are not happy one bit!
https://twitter.com/FreeBamberNow/status/1388172207180898305/photo/1
The tweet they released was a paranoid and hypocrisy filled statement denouncing the whole Mindhouse project. They complain that Mindhouse have obtained crime scene photos of the bodies of the deceased, which they've used 'unethically' in the doc.
They conveniently leave out the fact that they themselves, via Bamber and his lawyers, have published numerous dead body images of Sheila and June Bamber, all without legal permission, and without any thought to the dignity and respect of those people depicted in the photographs.
We've all had to put up with viewing faked photoshopped images of Sheila's wounds thanks to Jeremy Bamber and that support group of his.
I've got a feeling that Mindhouse/Sky Crime are going to finally put the record straight on all of this. And there is nothing that Jeremy Bamber or his lawyers can do to stop it.
On another note completely, whilst I was looking at all of the above, I idlily clicked on the link for the judges summing up, a bit random I know, but I discovered something I didn't preciously know...
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=273.0
This link contains the judges summing up from the time when the jury asked if they could 'hear the blood experts evidence regarding the blood in the silencer'.
I've never read that document before, but here is the Guardian newspapers version of the same event...
"After the jury were sent to reach a verdict, they returned and asked for clarification regarding the silencer. The judge told them it contained only the blood of Sheila Caffell. Seventeen minutes later, they returned and convicted Bamber by a 10 to two majority."
That statement above appears in the Guardian numerous times. It's copied and pasted into a number of articles on Jeremy Bamber. And up until now, I believed it. There was no reason not to believe it. But it turns out to be another nasty and needless lie from the Guardian newspaper about this case.
If you read the actual court transcript of the event described in the Guardian above, the truth is that where the Guardian states that 'the judge told them it contained only the blood of sheila Caffell', the transcript of the judges actual answer consisted of 10 pages of typed up transcript. That would be about 450 words a page, which would be approximately a 4500 word answer. So, a little bit more comprehensive that the one sentence answer as described in the Guardian.
And the Guardian newspaper said that the jury went away and deliberated this for 17 minutes. In reality they went away and deliberated this for 2 hours and forty minutes.
They came back after 2 hours and 40 minutes and declared that their decision was not unanimous, so the judge told them the rules, and that he would accept a 10-2 majority, he sent them away again and they came back 21 minutes later with their majority decision.
It looks like the Guardian newspaper has taken the 21 minute deliberation to get to a unanimous decision and falsely applied it to the deliberations about the judges answer to the blood in the silencer question.
Why do they feel the need to lie about this? It's relentless, and they are still doing it today. I hope that Mindhouse/Sky hold the Guardian newspaper to account over this.
Anyway...I'll stop now. Looking forward to that documentary though.
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Yup, I saw the tweet complaining about Mindhouse, hopefully they will debunk all of the myths and misrepresented evidence.
Not that I expect the disciples to believe it, they have mindlessly bought into the idea that the CT is the only reliable source of information, just as Donald Trump claims that he is a victim of a conspiracy to discredit him with "fake news" - it's simple but remarkably effective stuff that has been the bedrock of every cult in history.
If the CT hate it, the doc might be worth watching but at 3-4 hours I don't think I'll bother. Bamber is boring.
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Yes, Bamber and his rantings are boring, and there is a little bit of that feeling of, do we need yet another Jeremy Bamber documentary?
But no documentary has ever looked at what has happened since Bamber went to prison. And that is what the publicity about the doc stated back in January.
I'm sure there is a very long queue of retired police, prison, and legal personnel who would be more than happy to tell their story. I think the Police, the prisons system and the legal system as a whole, is fed up of Jeremy Bamber's propaganda campaign, plus the lack of any analysis of what he is doing in the media must be a frustration to them.
I would love it if they have got hold of that 109 page report made by the CCRC in 2012. The CT made some comment that Mindhouse had no access to anything to do with the latest application to the CCRC. So why would they comment about that specifically, unless something has happened, like Mindhouse have been given some kind of unauthorised access.
Jeremy Bamber is reported to have tried to cut of someone's nose and ears in prison, but there is precious little detail about this. If Bamber committed this act of extreme violence, what other things has he done that hasn't been reported? Maybe we'll find out.
How many photoshopped images are there doing the rounds? I'd like to know more about this. There's the wet blood images that we know are photoshopped, but no one has seen the original photos. There was also a photo of the bottom of Sheila's feet that showed markings that Jeremy Bamber described as cuts. But to me there is a big suspicion that they have also been photoshopped, even though the markings do not look like cuts anyway. So I'd like to know more about all of those doctored photos. There will probably be more than we currently know off, I feel.
I'd like all the fakery to be properly explained, so that the casual passer by isn't fooled by Jeremy Bamber's lies. The so called call logs that Bamber says proves that his dad phoned the police, which is obviously not true, but a casual onlooker could be fooled. All of those things need to be properly explained, the firearms logs, the faked accounts of movement inside the house, all needs to be explained.
I'd like the documentary makers to give the Guardian newspaper a hard time, ask them why Eric Allison is allowed to blatantly lie about the facts, and misrepresent the truth. I'd like them to present Eric Allison with the truth, and ask him to justify why he has lied in his articles. I feel there would be a lot of statements like...'the editor of the Guardian declined to comment'
I'd like to know a bit more about the independent experts that Bamber hires, and what requests were made by Bamber to these experts. We only get the results of the tests, we never get to see the actual questions that these experts are asked. I have a feeling that Bamber's legal team ask very narrow questions, designed to straightjacket experts into giving the answer that Bamber wants. There must be experts that have declined to help him, and experts who have provided results that don't support his propaganda. If that's true I'd like to know more.
I'd like to see the unhinged nature of the campaign team in all its unvarnished glory, and also that of the hard core deluded supporters. Their hatred, anger and bile is there for all to see on the forums. It would be good for their behaviour to be showcased in a clear, fair, and comprehensive way.
What we do know, is that the campaign team are running scared of this documentary, so that is a really promising start.
So I personally am looking forward to this.
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A documentary that looks at both the cult and the case of Bamber i would watch but it's fair to point out that we don't know what the tone and content will be yet. It's perhaps a good sign the CT are worried but remember, the CT complained about the ITV drama before it was aired because they weren't allowed to write and direct but actually, IMO, it oversimplified the case against him making his conviction look much weaker than it really is, at the same time raising the profile of the case for a while and of those interested in finding out more, there were undoubtedly some that found the CT propaganda convincing, IMO because those open to conspiracy theories are easily suggestible. Surveys confirm that most [ censored word ]s tend to believe in multiple wingnut theories.
Perhaps the documentary you envisage might help prevent others from initially being taken in but I doubt it would deprogramme the hardcore Bamberettes that are shepherded away from reality by the mods in their little facebook group - and they don't want to be.
So why care really? If some people lack the wherewithal to ask basic questions or are naturally conspiratorially minded, they are always likely to be fooled. It makes them feel they are privy to arcane knowledge and only they "know the truth" - they are not just taken in by propaganda, they seek it out so they can feel clever and dismiss those outside of the cult as uneducated sheep that follow the lamestream media narrative.
TLDR: You can put truthful information out there, in fact it already is in Bamber's case,but some will always prefer a good yarn with wild speculation presented as fact.
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I thought I'd have a look and see when or if that Sky Crime doc on Jeremy Bamber was going to be broadcast. I couldn't find anything on Sky, so I looked at Mindhouse productions website and they have it 'advertised' there.
https://mindhouse.co.uk/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm
What's interesting is that it is now a 4 x 60 minute documentary rather than the 3 x 60 minutes that they were saying back in January.
Here’s the original blurb ⬇️ which suggests it will be portraying Bamber as guilty
‘The Bambers: Murder at the Farm (working title) examines the tragic murder of a family at a secluded English farmhouse in 1985. The three-part true-crime series uses first-hand testimony and unseen archive footage to reflect on the events and the conviction of Jeremy Bamber, who was brother to murdered mother Sheila Caffell.
Theroux, who executive produces alongside Arron Fellows, said: “A big part of wanting to start a production company a little over a year ago was to make programs that I don’t appear in… It’s a story that’s socially important, with a powerfully compelling narrative, and the intention is to tell it in a way that is both sensitive and creatively ambitious.”
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Yup, I saw the tweet complaining about Mindhouse, hopefully they will debunk all of the myths and misrepresented evidence.
Not that I expect the disciples to believe it, they have mindlessly bought into the idea that the CT is the only reliable source of information, just as Donald Trump claims that he is a victim of a conspiracy to discredit him with "fake news" - it's simple but remarkably effective stuff that has been the bedrock of every cult in history.
If the CT hate it, the doc might be worth watching but at 3-4 hours I don't think I'll bother. Bamber is boring.
The CT weren’t complaining here ➡️ https://mobile.twitter.com/bambertweets/status/584297138877784065
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
"By Reason of Insanity" Part 2 Louis Theroux
@louistheroux
#JeremyBamber's sister Sheila was a Paranoid Schizophrenic
Louis Theroux - By Reason of Insanity: Part 2
Louis examines the grey area between criminal actions and medical symptoms.
bbc.co.uk
11:11 AM · Apr 4, 2015·Twitter Web Client
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A documentary that looks at both the cult and the case of Bamber i would watch but it's fair to point out that we don't know what the tone and content will be yet.
It's true we don't know the tone and content yet, and it would be terrible if they did what so many broadcasters do and give 50 percent of time to one argument, and 50 percent of time to the other argument. That 50/50 thing doesn't necessarily represent balance. It wouldn't represent balance in this case.
I hope that this doc just goes through the facts, and objectively analyses the facts rather than giving equal time to the possibility that he's innocent. That also means highlighting all the stuff that was described by the CCRC in 2012 as 'pure speculation and unsubstantiated allegations'
I think for neutrals who didn't know the case, the 8 part drama on ITV did make him look guilty. 6-8 million people watched each week, many thousands took to Twitter to comment on the drama, and 18 months on from that drama the Bamber Twitter account still only has 3200 followers.
But the drama could have made him look a lot more guilty than it did. I think it was quite Bamber friendly. Especially that last episode.
As for the campaign team, I'm not sure that even they think Jeremy Bamber is innocent. I think it's possible and even probable, that they secretly accept he's guilty, but they've become socially dependant on 'representing' him.
The evidence that they have found that 'proves' his innocence comes from deliberate misinterpretations of existing evidence, so they know full well that they are lying. You don't have to lie to prove someone's innocent.
The Campaign team have a much more interesting life with Jeremy Bamber in prison. They get to meet top lawyers, journalists, they get interviewed and made a fuss of regularly by the press. They get to meet a few B-list celebrities and they get to issue press releases that the national newspapers love. They've developed a strong relationship with journalists at the Guardian newspaper. This must all be great for the ego.
Jeremy Bamber provides these people with a life that they would never have had if they didn't 'represent' him. With Bamber a free man, all of this would disappear very quickly.
So it's true that no documentary will change their minds, but it might send some of them into an apoplectic rage. Which will be fun.
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“It’s a story that’s socially important, with a powerfully compelling narrative, and the intention is to tell it in a way that is both sensitive and creatively ambitious. It’s obviously a big responsibility taking on a subject that’s touched the lives of so many people in such a tragic way. But I’m confident we can make it much more than a true crime documentary. This is a story not only about the criminal justice system but about family and adoption, class and religion, mental health and the undeserved stigma around it.”
https://static.skyassets.com/contentstack/assets/bltdc2476c7b6b194dd/blt3dbe220b742d87f6/600df86f533a1810075f5d6b/Look-ahead-V4-PR.pdf
The ‘unseen archive footage’ may include Angela and/or Virgina Greaves and Brett Collins
‘The Bambers: Murder at the Farm (working title) examines the tragic murder of a family at a secluded English farmhouse in 1985. The three-part true-crime series uses first-hand testimony and unseen archive footage to reflect on the events and the conviction of Jeremy Bamber, who was brother to murdered mother Sheila Caffell.
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Is that Poppy Ann Miller in the trailer ?
I recognised Carol Ann Lee
https://twitter.com/MindhouseTV/status/1437001289817264135
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I think it was quite Bamber friendly.
I agree
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Yes, Bamber and his rantings are boring, and there is a little bit of that feeling of, do we need yet another Jeremy Bamber documentary?
But no documentary has ever looked at what has happened since Bamber went to prison. And that is what the publicity about the doc stated back in January.
I'm sure there is a very long queue of retired police, prison, and legal personnel who would be more than happy to tell their story. I think the Police, the prisons system and the legal system as a whole, is fed up of Jeremy Bamber's propaganda campaign, plus the lack of any analysis of what he is doing in the media must be a frustration to them.
I would love it if they have got hold of that 109 page report made by the CCRC in 2012. The CT made some comment that Mindhouse had no access to anything to do with the latest application to the CCRC. So why would they comment about that specifically, unless something has happened, like Mindhouse have been given some kind of unauthorised access.
Jeremy Bamber is reported to have tried to cut of someone's nose and ears in prison, but there is precious little detail about this. If Bamber committed this act of extreme violence, what other things has he done that hasn't been reported? Maybe we'll find out.
How many photoshopped images are there doing the rounds? I'd like to know more about this. There's the wet blood images that we know are photoshopped, but no one has seen the original photos. There was also a photo of the bottom of Sheila's feet that showed markings that Jeremy Bamber described as cuts. But to me there is a big suspicion that they have also been photoshopped, even though the markings do not look like cuts anyway. So I'd like to know more about all of those doctored photos. There will probably be more than we currently know off, I feel.
I'd like all the fakery to be properly explained, so that the casual passer by isn't fooled by Jeremy Bamber's lies. The so called call logs that Bamber says proves that his dad phoned the police, which is obviously not true, but a casual onlooker could be fooled. All of those things need to be properly explained, the firearms logs, the faked accounts of movement inside the house, all needs to be explained.
I'd like the documentary makers to give the Guardian newspaper a hard time, ask them why Eric Allison is allowed to blatantly lie about the facts, and misrepresent the truth. I'd like them to present Eric Allison with the truth, and ask him to justify why he has lied in his articles. I feel there would be a lot of statements like...'the editor of the Guardian declined to comment'
I'd like to know a bit more about the independent experts that Bamber hires, and what requests were made by Bamber to these experts. We only get the results of the tests, we never get to see the actual questions that these experts are asked. I have a feeling that Bamber's legal team ask very narrow questions, designed to straightjacket experts into giving the answer that Bamber wants. There must be experts that have declined to help him, and experts who have provided results that don't support his propaganda. If that's true I'd like to know more.
I'd like to see the unhinged nature of the campaign team in all its unvarnished glory, and also that of the hard core deluded supporters. Their hatred, anger and bile is there for all to see on the forums. It would be good for their behaviour to be showcased in a clear, fair, and comprehensive way.
What we do know, is that the campaign team are running scared of this documentary, so that is a really promising start.
So I personally am looking forward to this.
Would be interesting to find out who Kieron Saunders from the Sun spoke to - whether they were male or female and if what he wrote came from one source or more
‘Earlier, a close friend had revealed that the girl, known throughout London’s clubland as Bambi, had been taking methadone, a heroin substitute’
‘Jeremy was on the phone to his father from his home in the nearby village of Goldhanger when he heard a shot echo down the line’
The above was printed on 8th August 1985
Kieron Saunders mentions his ‘friend in the Essex police press office’ here approx 32:50 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3la7mw
It’s also said Bamber gave a ‘press conference’ at ‘half past seven’
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Is that Poppy Ann Miller in the trailer ?
I recognised Carol Ann Lee
https://twitter.com/MindhouseTV/status/1437001289817264135 (https://twitter.com/MindhouseTV/status/1437001289817264135)
Looks like her... along with Peter Sutherst, some other supporter, David Boutflour, Brett Collins and a cheapo Blue Peter WHF model made from cardboard, sticky-backed plastic and plasticine...
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Is that Poppy Ann Miller in the trailer ?
https://twitter.com/MindhouseTV/status/1437001289817264135
Looks like her...
Will Poppy Ann Miller finally explain who exactly Bamber was seeing around the time he received that phone call, Virginia or Anji, and who’s idea it was to lie - presuming both sisters were in a relationship with him at the same time?
Did Bamber tell Poppy Ann Miller this?
‘By the 4th of September 1985 the reality of the relationship ending had become all too real for Julie when she discovered Jeremy talking on the phone to another woman called Virginia, with whom he had planned to start a relationship with.
(Above excerpt from Poppy Ann Miller’s blogspot ‘Read my lips’)
Bamber had started a relationship with Virginia’s sister Anji - when did he plan to start one with Virginia?
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Did I mention Don Hale published Barry George’s uncles book?
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/editor-launches-welsh-lifestyle-magazine/
Poppy Ann Miller links to some of Hales nonsense here http://poppyannmiller.blogspot.com/2014/07/
The above is the sort of nonsense Aunt Agatha started a thread on - since removed it appears?
My mistake it’s here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11464.msg588683#msg588683
Poppy Ann Miller
‘I have been supporting and writing to Jeremy since I watched ‘Crimes that Shook Britain’ on television. I was shocked at the lack of information and evidence in the public domain, ashamed of my lack of knowledge – felt guilty that twenty six years had passed since the murders of all of Jeremy’s family and all that time I had been gullible in my acceptance of the ‘story’ as presented and promulgated by the press and others. A myth has grown up around this tragedy and it appears to me that it is deliberately fostered by those who have a vested interest in continuing that myth and for whom the truth is a very dangerous thing; the ‘outing’ of which will result in lives irrevocably changed.
I live a few miles from White House Farm where Jeremy was raised by his adoptive parents Nevill and June Bamber. Sheila, his adoptive sister arrived a few years later. In his letters to me Jeremy writes fondly of his childhood, his happy days at Maldon Court School, at the top of Market Hill and of two of his favourite teachers, Miss Carter and Miss Robinson. He writes of his French lessons from aged six and the French au pairs that looked after him, alongside his mother, until he was eight-and-a-half; he reflects on his memories of a ‘lovely little school - happy days’ and recalls fondly how his mother would drive him to school even in wet and icy weather.
Jeremy’s father, Nevill, was an agricultural farmer grew and sold various crops which Jeremy would deliver to local outlets, one being Copsey’s fish shop in Heybridge, a ten minute walk from my home. Jeremy’s father grew Pentland Javelin potatoes especially for Copsey’s. Jeremy would deliver them and says that recalling delivering potatoes to Copseys is full of happy memories. The owner would give him a portion of chips made from them and Jeremy writes, ‘No other potato, chips like it’. Jeremy asks me whether the shop is still there and speculates as to whether one of the sons now runs it. Copsey’s is still there, I have sent a picture of the shop to Jeremy assuring him that I ‘see’ us both buying fish and chips there and celebrating his freedom; though the ownership did not continue through the family line – which I have not told him; silly I suppose but the romantic in me wants to protect Jeremy and help him keep some consistency and contact with his past.
Jeremy writes of his father and his love for him and how he pictures his father giving him encouragement and advice. He says, ‘my father walks with me’ and he wonders how his father would respond if in the same situation.
I feel humbled by Jeremy’s attitude - I wish I were more like him. He does not complain or whinge - he just gets
on with it….persisting in his goals with no bemoaning the obscenity of the injustice surrounding him. He expresses gratitude for any help and contacts he receives. He always writes within a few days of receiving my emails and letters. Many of his letters to me are tear- stained – with my tears - not his….. An equal injustice is that the-man-in-the-street apparently would rather continue to believe this concoction and distortion of the facts. How I wish that instead of the vast expenses entailed by the current Leveson Inquiry in pandering to mealy-mouthed politicians and so-called celebrities would instead be used to look at the true nature of the threat to this country and its democracy; that being the corruption in high places of government and police, many of whom know very well that Jeremy is innocent and yet do nothing to address what must be the longest miscarriage of justice in the UK.
Jeremy’s Campaign Team are not cranks, the people who support him are not ‘conspiracy theorists’, they are ordinary people, many of whom, with an open mind, took the time to consider the evidence. So I would encourage others to visit Jeremy’s website and do the same because they cannot fail to conclude that Jeremy could not have committed these murders. If I had one sentence it would be,
‘Read the evidence, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, bearing in mind that this could happen to you or one of yours.’
Poppy
https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/poppy-ann-miller
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Looks like her... along with Peter Sutherst, some other supporter, David Boutflour, Brett Collins and a cheapo Blue Peter WHF model made from cardboard, sticky-backed plastic and plasticine...
Is that Brett Collins in the yellow top?
I thought after his chat with Kay Page he wasn’t going to be doing anymore interviews ?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12057.0
‘He hated being lonely’ is what Brett Collins said to Kay Page
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And then I did a search for 'Mindhouse' and 'Bamber' and found a tweet from April from the JB Campaign team....and they sound really spooked by this doc. They are not happy. They are not happy one bit!
https://twitter.com/FreeBamberNow/status/1388172207180898305/photo/1
The CT latest tweet is about some forthcoming zoom meeting where Dennis Eady will apparently be giving a ‘presentation’ called ‘was Jeremy's trial & conviction illegal?’ (Was killer Simon Hall’s ‘trial & conviction illegal?)
From my viewpoint Dennis Eady was conned by the Cardiff Newsagent 3 - who’s case he refers to a great deal in his thesis which he called, ‘Miscarriages of justice: the uncertainty principle’ https://orca.cardiff.ac.uk/54837/1/U585226.pdf
The Cardiff Newsagent 3 also gets a mention here ⬇️
‘Keeping Perspective – Continue the Fight for Miscarriages of Justice’ https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2019/07/16/keeping-perspective-continue-the-fight-for-miscarriages-of-justice-by-dr-dennis-eady-originally-published-by-jon-robins-of-the-justice-gap-6th-sept-2013/
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We've all had to put up with viewing faked photoshopped images of Sheila's wounds thanks to Jeremy Bamber and that support group of his.
I've got a feeling that Mindhouse/Sky Crime are going to finally put the record straight on all of this. And there is nothing that Jeremy Bamber or his lawyers can do to stop it.
I agree
Could this also be the reason why Mark Newby blogged what he did?
Mark Newby
“As time goes on in this case, we hope to be able to share parts of the evidence which now supports the fact that every part of the reported case appears to be untrue, and there is now a new narrative to be told which if accepted by the Commission and then in turn the Court of Appeal should lead to Jeremy Bamber being exonerated.
https://crimejottings.com/2021/03/12/jeremy-bamber-the-story-yet-to-be-told/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Was he possibly attempting to cover himself ? A damage limitation exercise ?
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On another note completely, whilst I was looking at all of the above, I idlily clicked on the link for the judges summing up, a bit random I know, but I discovered something I didn't preciously know...
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=273.0
This link contains the judges summing up from the time when the jury asked if they could 'hear the blood experts evidence regarding the blood in the silencer'.
I've never read that document before, but here is the Guardian newspapers version of the same event...
"After the jury were sent to reach a verdict, they returned and asked for clarification regarding the silencer. The judge told them it contained only the blood of Sheila Caffell. Seventeen minutes later, they returned and convicted Bamber by a 10 to two majority."
That statement above appears in the Guardian numerous times. It's copied and pasted into a number of articles on Jeremy Bamber. And up until now, I believed it. There was no reason not to believe it.
I didn’t
Didn’t the exposure of Simon Halls guilt/innocence fraud in 2013 not give you a ‘reason not to believe it’?
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Why do they feel the need to lie about this? It's relentless, and they are still doing it today. I hope that Mindhouse/Sky hold the Guardian newspaper to account over this.
’4. Using the press to fabricate a leading narrative’
It’s part and parcel of the malicious tactics of innocence fraud ➡️ http://ndaa.org/wp-content/uploads/innocence-fraud.pdf
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Yup, I saw the tweet complaining about Mindhouse, hopefully they will debunk all of the myths and misrepresented evidence.
Not that I expect the disciples to believe it, they have mindlessly bought into the idea that the CT is the only reliable source of information, just as Donald Trump claims that he is a victim of a conspiracy to discredit him with "fake news" - it's simple but remarkably effective stuff that has been the bedrock of every cult in history.
Do you think MindHouse recognise it’s a ‘cult’ or ‘high control group’ and if so why do you think they chose to include Poppy Ann Miller - presuming that’s her in the trailer?
And do you think she made contact with the production team as opposed to them contacting her?
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Jeremy Bamber is reported to have tried to cut of someone's nose and ears in prison, but there is precious little detail about this. If Bamber committed this act of extreme violence, what other things has he done that hasn't been reported? Maybe we'll find out.
Maybe
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I think it was quite Bamber friendly.
I wonder why the Greave sisters (Virginia & Anji) were left out?
Bamber was apparently moving Virginia in to live with him and had asked Anji to marry him - these events occurred before his trial
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I would love it if they have got hold of that 109 page report made by the CCRC in 2012. The CT made some comment that Mindhouse had no access to anything to do with the latest application to the CCRC. So why would they comment about that specifically, unless something has happened, like Mindhouse have been given some kind of unauthorised access.
The CT statement reads,
‘Having done some preliminary work with them on a potential project, we were then advised by industry contacts that Mindhouse had somehow obtained crime scene photographs of the bodies of the deceased at the scene
they go on,
‘Police officers have disseminated distressing photographs of the deceased Bamber family to third parties…’
Why ‘police officers’ and not for example Mike Teskowski or Giovanni Di Stefano ?
And who are they claiming the ‘industry contacts’ to be?
They said further,
’This placed us in a very difficult position to pursuing a criminal complaint’
How so?
Their full sentence reads,
‘This placed us in a very difficult position to pursuing a criminal complaint, while at the same time, potentially working with those who had received illegally distributed images 🙄
I suspect the ‘illegally distributed images’ they refer to ALL originated from Bamber
Where did Mike Teskowski get his copies? What about that MP Andrew Hunter - where did he get his copies?
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I'm sure there is a very long queue of retired police, prison, and legal personnel who would be more than happy to tell their story. I think the Police, the prisons system and the legal system as a whole, is fed up of Jeremy Bamber's propaganda campaign, plus the lack of any analysis of what he is doing in the media must be a frustration to them
Do you recall what Brett Collins said to Kay Page?
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-white-house-farm-murders/id1498375308
Kay’s transcript is still available here https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0
but she appears to have removed her Twitter account?
I suspect there may well be lots of ex supporters also wanting to speak out - and it’s a possibility some may choose to remain anonymous ?
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Do you recall what Brett Collins said to Kay Page?
Referring to JM Brett Collins says,
‘They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
I wonder if the doc makers have tracked down one or both of the Greave sisters?
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Brett Collins also said to Kay Page - referring to the police following his and Bamber’s arrest
‘They wanted to compile kind of a story of his behaviour”
But he seemingly didn’t tell the police about Anji and Virginia Greaves or did the police not ask?
I don’t recall seeing mention of a witness statement in Carol Ann Lee’s book (What I’ve been able to read via google books) from Anji Greaves - even though her and Bamber were apparently talking about marriage prior to his arrest?
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Brett Collins
‘He had a kind of secret life after work.
Will the doc makers go into more detail regarding this statement?
And will they speak to the vet or to Charles Marsden?
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Misogyny - will the doc makers discuss this aspect ?
The following two passages are straight from Roger Wilkes book and follow one after the other
‘The idea of three-in-a-bed sex excited the detectives’ curiosity still further. But Charles Marsden was at pains to insist that he hadn’t taken part in the sex session. And when Jeremy returned from walking the girl home, Marsden himself had got up and driven home.
Stan Jones was nettled by all these stories about Jeremy’s strange lifestyle. To him Jeremy’s behaviour since the killings seemed incompatible with the behaviour of a bereaved innocent.
Why did Roger Wilkes not recognise Bamber appears to have date raped the girl from the Chequers pub?
And what was this ‘secret life’ in London Brett Collins referred to?
What exactly was Bamber up to when he travelled down to London after work?
And did other women similar to Sarah come forward and speak to the police at the time after seeing Bamber’s face on the news?
How did the police trace Sarah?
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Yup, I saw the tweet complaining about Mindhouse, hopefully they will debunk all of the myths and misrepresented evidence.
Will be interesting to see what Mindhouse do say on this
CT
‘Mindhouse were not privy to the 10th of March 2021 submissions to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), and any attempt by the programme makers to suggest they are working with the campaign, Jeremy Bamber, his legal team, or the CCRC is wholly inaccurate.
I’ve seen no suggestion anywhere of Mindhouse working with any of those listed above?
Although it’s possible someone like David James Smith or some other ex CCRC case reviewer/commissioner will be interviewed alongside people like Poppy Ann Miller ?
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I wonder why the Greave sisters (Virginia & Anji) were left out?
Bamber was apparently moving Virginia in to live with him and had asked Anji to marry him - these events occurred before his trial
Did a defence witness tell blatant lies during Bamber’s trial?
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Journalist Roger Wilkes stated in his book ‘Blood Relations’
‘Marsden said that he had visited Jeremy at his cottage the previous Thursday night. Brett Collins had cooked them a chicken dinner and the three had then repaired to the Caribbean Cottage at Burnham for drinks. Jeremy had announced that he and Julie had split up the previous weekend. While he didn't give a specific reason, Marsden had the impression that Julie had disliked Brett Collins. In any case, Jeremy added, he now had a new girlfriend, Virginia Greaves, who used to go out with Mike Deckers of the Frog and Beans. Jeremy also told Charles Marsden that he and Brett were going to sell Bourtree Cottage and move to Sheila's flat in Maida Vale. Virginia would move in too, Jeremy added.
Who and what were Roger Wilkes sources for the above?
Didn’t Anji Greaves claim Bamber had proposed to her? Why then is Bamber claiming to Charles Marsden Virginia (Anji’s sister) would be moving in with him and Brett Collins?
Brett Collins suggested to Kay Page this was all a ruse
What was really going on?
Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex* I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
Brett Collins stated,
‘Whenever they wanted sex I gathered’
*Julie made it clear in her evidence to police she was NOT having sex with Bamber
Brett Collins doesn’t appear to have recognised the significance of Bamber’s ‘triangulation’ - ‘The Narcissists Best Play’ https://psychcentral.com/blog/psychology-self/2019/10/triangulation-and-narcissism#1
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’They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
Brett Collins seems to be suggesting Virginia Greaves ‘posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend’
Which - if true - means she most definitely perjured herself - if she pretended to be Bamber’s girlfriend at trial but wasn’t
What exactly did the Greave sisters (Virginia & Anji) tell police and what did they say in their police witness statements?
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Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
Virgina seemingly ‘posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister’
Anji was the ‘younger sister’ ⬇️
From "The Murders at White House Farm" by Carol Ann Lee...
Anji Greaves had waited for the verdict in a hotel not far from Chelmsford with two friends and a journalist. Her room was decorated with ‘Welcome Home, Jeremy!’ banners, and she wore her glitziest outfit, with a bag packed; the journalist intended to write Jeremy’s story when he was acquitted and then hustle the couple off on holiday. But when the television news delivered the outcome, Anji walked out in a daze, narrowly avoiding being run over. She told the journalist: ‘I feel so much loyalty for Jeremy but I do not know if I can bring myself to go on visiting now. It could be a life sentence for both of us.’
and Virginia Greaves seemingly ‘went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister who was getting married’ - Virginia (?)
Did Virginia Greaves get married after Bamber’s murder trial?
What did Bamber tell Aunt Agatha about all this?
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What about Anji Greaves "feathering her nest?"
How much did she receive for her story?
So she has a brief fling with the mass murderer Bamber, betraying her sister in the process, turns on JM, vilifying her for no apparent reason, does a deal with a national newspaper, then disappears *&^^&
Anji Greaves wouldn’t have betrayed her sister Virginia if she (Virginia) wasn’t Bamber’s girlfriend in the first place and she was only ‘posing’ as though she were
Holly Goodhead aka Naughty Nun
"Oh and Anji Greaves his girlfriend after Julie Mugford stood by him during his trial. After his conviction she still believed in his innocence but felt that by standing by him further would have been a life sentence for them both..
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3668.0
"When JB hooked up with Anji Greeves she decided he needed a high profile lawyer"
The above is another Holly Goodhead quote http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9392.msg457349#msg457349
And Dennis Eady is now apparently giving a presentation on ‘was Jeremy's trial & conviction illegal?’ *&^^& (Was killer Simon Hall’s ‘trial & conviction illegal?’)
The CT latest tweet is about some forthcoming zoom meeting where Dennis Eady will apparently be giving a ‘presentation’ called ‘was Jeremy's trial & conviction illegal?’
From my viewpoint Dennis Eady was conned by the Cardiff Newsagent 3 - who’s case he refers to a great deal in his thesis which he called, ‘Miscarriages of justice: the uncertainty principle’ https://orca.cardiff.ac.uk/54837/1/U585226.pdf
The Cardiff Newsagent 3 also gets a mention here ⬇️
‘Keeping Perspective – Continue the Fight for Miscarriages of Justice’ https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2019/07/16/keeping-perspective-continue-the-fight-for-miscarriages-of-justice-by-dr-dennis-eady-originally-published-by-jon-robins-of-the-justice-gap-6th-sept-2013/
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
Jeremy Bamber Campaign Zoom meeting: Wed 29th Sept 7pm
Guest speaker: Dr Dennis Eady, Cardiff Law School
Presentation: was Jeremy's trial & conviction illegal?
Questions
Join the #JeremyBamber Justice Group to attend the Zoom meeting https://facebook.com/groups/263614995639/… #WhiteHouseFarm
12:36 pm · 14 Sep 2021·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/1437742118848667649
Q: Did Virginia Greaves commit perjury?
According to Anji Greaves Sun interview (29th Oct 1986)
‘Bamber’s lust for her also led to his downfall. For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford’
Manufactured by Bamber (And his defence team) and presumably believed at the time by Anji
Q. Who phoned Bamber Anji or Virginia?
113. On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila Caffell. Again Miss Mugford raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation the appellant received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Miss Mugford heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped the appellant. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. Four days later, she went to the police.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
‘Mr Brett Collins and Angela Greaves, the 29-year-old girlfriend of Jeremy Bamber, accused of killing five members of his own family.’ https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-girlfriend-of-jermey-bamber-attends-trial-107022017.html
‘Angela Greaves, a former girlfriend of farmer Jeremy Bamber (24) of Goldhanger, Essex. Bamber, accused of the murder of five members of his family, was further remanded by magistrates in Maldon, Essex.’
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-crime-murder-jeremy-bamber-maldon-1985-111059828.html
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Who’s JM meant to be referring to here?
“Occasionally choking on her words, she told the court about the night at Caterham Road, when she had begged him to remain with her, and the angry confrontation at Sheila’s flat when she discovered that Jeremy had begun dating a former girlfriend,”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
‘Jeremy had begun dating a former girlfriend’
?
Anji Greaves wasn’t a ‘former girlfriend’ - seemingly Virginia was http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11533.msg649108#msg649108
Hopefully this will be explored and explained by Mindhouse in their forthcoming 4 part documentary
Julie Mugford
‘I asked him what was going on in respect of our relationship. He said it had already been sold out. I told him he was too selfish and that I couldn’t let him get away with hurting people anymore.’
Was Julie referring to Bamber’s girlfriend(s)?
Julie Mugford
‘I was annoyed with him about the call, as he had told me he had asked out another women. The phone later rang again and it was Virginia.
What does Julie say on P.28 prior to referring to the first phone call?
Although Carol Ann Lee’s book ‘The Murders at White House Farm’ appears to be meticulously researched (I’ve only read what’s available via google books) she doesn’t appear to have explored or grasped(?) the varying personality types around Bamber at the time nor does she appear to have explored, or grasped (?), his psychopathic abuse tactics - especially in relation to Julie Mugford - who it seems he used to give an impression of normality
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Looks like her... along with Peter Sutherst, some other supporter, David Boutflour, Brett Collins and a cheapo Blue Peter WHF model made from cardboard, sticky-backed plastic and plasticine...
Have you changed your mind about this ⬇️ Myster?
According to BC latest interview (and Getty Images) that photo is of himself and Angela Greaves, Virginia's elder sister. They both set out to find a lawyer for Jeremy. Angela was thirty years old, six years older than Jeremy, had a previous affair with him, but it was Virginia, his latest squeeze who was at the Morshead Mansions flat when Julie rang and she answered the phone. Angela (Anji) posed as Jeremy's current girlfriend because Virginia was about to get married to another man and wanted to keep this info from the press. That's how I understand it.
‘Mr Brett Collins and Angela Greaves, the 29-year-old girlfriend of Jeremy Bamber, accused of killing five members of his own family.’ https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-girlfriend-of-jermey-bamber-attends-trial-107022017.html
‘Angela Greaves, a former girlfriend of farmer Jeremy Bamber (24) of Goldhanger, Essex. Bamber, accused of the murder of five members of his family, was further remanded by magistrates in Maldon, Essex.’
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-crime-murder-jeremy-bamber-maldon-1985-111059828.html
Was Virginia the older sister and Anji the younger sister or vice versa?
Which photo is of Anji and which one is of Virginia ?
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Helen Wingrave (https://helen.portfoliobox.net/aboutme)
If you REALLY research the FACTS of this case, many of which were not presented to the Jury at Jeremy Bamber’s trial,
https://www.quora.com/profile/Helen-Wingrave-1
Were the jury presented with Bamber’s varying psychological abuse tactics - especially in relation to Julie Mugford - and will Mindhouse explore this in their forthcoming doc?
Were the jury made aware Virginia was seemingly ‘posing’ as Bamber’s current girlfriend as opposed to it being Anji Greaves?
Journalist Roger Wilkes stated in his book ‘Blood Relations’
‘While he didn't give a specific reason, Marsden had the impression that Julie had disliked Brett Collins. In any case, Jeremy added, he now had a new girlfriend, Virginia Greaves, who used to go out with Mike Deckers of the Frog and Beans. Jeremy also told Charles Marsden that he and Brett were going to sell Bourtree Cottage and move to Sheila's flat in Maida Vale. Virginia would move in too, Jeremy added.
What did Bamber’s defence team know about Virginia and Anji at this time and what was told to the jury?
Did Virginia omit to tell the jury she was ‘posing’ as Bamber’s girlfriend and was it explained to the jury Julie may have been confused about who was who ie: Virginia and Angela?
When Virginia gave her evidence where was Anji and why wasn’t Anji called to give evidence in respect of her current boyfriend? What reasons were given for this?
And will Mindhouse show their audience some of Bamber’s attempts at psychologically abusing Colin Caffell following his convictions for murder?
The same applies to all the other people Bamber psychologically abused
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Did Virginia Greaves get married after Bamber’s murder trial?
What did Bamber tell Aunt Agatha about all this?
When exactly did Bamber stop having contact with Anji Greaves and why did the contact stop?
Did Aunt Agatha contact Mindhouse productions and if so what did she tell them?
And has she also been filmed ready to appear on the forthcoming doc?
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Were the jury made aware Virginia was seemingly ‘posing’ as Bamber’s current girlfriend as opposed to it being Anji Greaves?
What did Bamber’s defence team know about Virginia and Anji at this time and what was told to the jury?
Did Virginia omit to tell the jury she was ‘posing’ as Bamber’s girlfriend and was it explained to the jury Julie may have been confused about who was who ie: Virginia and Angela?
Again how old was Virginia when she first apparently dated Bamber ?
If Virginia Greaves was 23 years old around the time of the murders - how old was she when she allegedly ‘had an affair’ with Bamber ‘years before Sue Ford’?
Journalist Roger Wilkes stated in his book ‘Blood Relations’
‘On Friday one of Jeremy’s old girlfriends, Virginia Greaves, made a chance reappearance. Virginia a twenty three year old personnel assistant, had been a member of the Frog and Beans’ drinking set for about three years; she had been a girlfriend of Michael Deckers at one time, and had had an affair with Jeremy in the days before Sue Ford arrived on the scene. At the time of the Bamber killings, she hadn’t seen him for over a year. She had sent him a condolences card, but had received no response. Then through Michael Deckers, she had heard that Jeremy was trying to find someone to rent Sheila’s old flat in Maida Vale and to act as landlady when Jeremy himself wasn’t there. The protest appealed to Virginia Greaves, and she telephoned Jeremy at his cottage. He was out, so she left a message on his answering machine. On Friday afternoon Jeremy returned her call.
After some conversation about the Maida Vale flat, Jeremy invited Virginia Greaves out to dinner with himself and Brett Collins. Julie was still in London. Virginia agreed, and that evening Jeremy arrived at her family’s cottage near Colchester to pick her up. In the car, Jeremy complained about the behaviour of his surviving relations, saying they were forever in and out of White House farm and helping themselves to it’s contents. He told Virginia Greaves that he was getting no support from his family and that they only seemed interested in what they could get. On the way to dinner, Jeremy stopped off at Bourtree cottage where he telephoned Ann Eaton. ‘I don’t mind you having things,’ was the gist of the message, ‘but I’d rather you did it whilst I’m at the house.’
The three of them dined at the Caribbean Cottage. At the end of the evening they returned to Goldhanger. Virginia Greaves spent the night in bed with Jeremy. The seduction was pivotal, in that it rekindled and affair which had apparently fizzled out years before.
At the time, it seemed nothing ore than the comforting of a bereaved and bewildered young man by a solicitous and affectionate former girlfriend. But it was to sow a seed of jealously in the troubled heart of Julie Mugford.
Jeremy had arranged to meet Julie on the Saturday morning, so he called her with an excuse and and said he’d be there later. Then he drove Virginia home. Her mother was pleased to see him again, offered her condolences over the tragedy and invited him to stay for lunch. Despite his promise to Julie, Jeremy accepted the invitation, and sat out in the garden on his own while Virginia and Mrs Greaves prepared lunch in the kitchen. When Virginia wandered back outside, Jere,y took her hand and told her how much he still cared for her, even though their affair had ended years before. Jeremy added that he wanted to be around people who cared for him, rather than with his grasping relations. After lunch the pair returned to Goldhanger. In the car, Virginia turned to Jeremy. ‘Docyou want me to be sympathetic,’ she asked, ‘or would you rather I didn’t mention what’s happened?’
‘No’ Jeremy replied, ‘I just want to be around happy people, and I don’t want to be alone’
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RSbCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT129&lpg=PT129&dq=brett+collins+virginia+greaves&source=bl&ots=UKdsfPz1kf&sig=ACfU3U0uEfZ9E7s5AORDZHhMG8p52_-tnQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwijytbV75fwAhVVZxUIHWUtDtcQ6AEwEnoECAcQAg#v=onepage&q=brett%20collins%20virginia%20greaves&f=false
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Who’s the author of this https://jeremybamber.org/jeremy-bamber/ ?
Coping with the tragedies at White House Farm
Jeremy had cheated on Julie Mugford with her friend Lizzie prior to the tragedies and he had also felt that his time with Julie had come to an end, so he broke of their relationship. Her endless demanding behaviour must have become tiresome to him. He had offered to buy Julie a wine bar When did he offer her this ? in London and had given her money to help her as a student teacher. Jeremy wanted to be with another woman called Virginia whom he had known for some time. He turned to Virginia for comfort away from Julie’s violent tantrums and demands. Did Bamber tell the author of this piece this ?[9] Julie was becoming more and more difficult and resented Brett Collins being around and suspected that they were lovers. Is it not possible they -Brett & Bamber - had ‘bi-sexual’ sex?
Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow. His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him. Bamber was seeing Anji Greaves NOT Virginia
Was the above the authors projections or was the content of their blog - originally published on the CT website - told to them by Bamber?
Is Bill Robertson the author of the above?
Why does Bill Robertson, presuming he’s the author (I seem to recall he may have been), not recognise Bamber’s apparent triangulation and the lies being told around this time - NONE of which were Julie Mugfords!
Will be interesting to learn if Mindhouse asks Brett Collins on camera whether or not he and Bamber had ‘bi-sexual’ sex - unless Bamber told Brett Collins he was ‘bi-sexual’ as opposed to having sex with Bamber for him to have established this
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Will be interesting to learn if Mindhouse asks Brett Collins on camera whether or not he and Bamber had ‘bi-sexual’ sex - unless Bamber told Brett Collins he was ‘bi-sexual’ as opposed to having sex with Bamber for him to have established this
Brett Collins
During his interview with Kay Page, Brett Collins seemed certain Bamber was ‘bi-sexual’
‘We did get on very well. Jeremy’s actually bisexual and he could swing both ways depending on what mood he was in.
Transcript courtesy of Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
‘By definition, the psychopath doesn’t have successful relationships. Actually, the truth is more about capacity than quality. With the psychopath, there is an absence of emotional connection and true empathetic feeling. The psychopath simply isn’t capable of trusting and depending on another individual. To sit with them and assess them as I have in forensic settings, it’s as if you’re talking with someone who’s part ice. Though they engage in sex (and other trappings of relationships), their experience of sex is vastly different from their non-psychopathic peers.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/insight-is-2020/201410/sex-and-the-psychopath
Essex police appeared to have picked up on the above during their investigations into Bamber.
‘The psychopath frequently engages in promiscuous sexual behavior or has many short-term marital relationships, both items on Robert Hare’s seminal Psychopathy Checklist—Revised (1991). Ali and Chamorro-Premuzic (2010), for example, found that primary psychopathy was linked to more promiscuity and less commitment.
‘Bars and restaurants with active happy hours are especially popular spots for psychopaths to sexually pursue individuals. With the wheels greased with alcohol, men and women alike are more willing to fall prey to the psychopath’s highly calculated strategies to ensnare. The psychopath in this setting can be spotted by picking up on the following signals: excessive, forced flattery; looking for pity or sympathy; creating a sense that the two share a deep, almost destined connection right from the start; and asking extremely personal questions too soon in service of the need to ascertain the target’s emotional weaknesses.
‘Just as a complex dynamic is at work with the abused woman who stays with an abusive boyfriend or husband, an equally complex dynamic is at work with the psychopath and his victim. People often stay with a psychopath far longer than they’re proud to admit because the psychopath has brainwashed the victim over time through a series of self-esteem killing strategies, such as isolating them from family and friends or criticizing them in countless ways. It’s often when the psychopath ends the relationship that the victims seek mental health treatment, frequently because they are devastated by the way they were abandoned so flippantly.
‘It’s hard for most people to understand how anyone could cut off a partner so quickly and callously, but healing from a relationship with a psychopath usually requires that the victim clearly understands the unique psychological profile of the psychopath. Healing also requires that the victim understand how vastly different the psychopath’s needs are in comparison: In essence, their emotional needs are all about serving their own grandiose self-image, and not at all about mutuality or reciprocity.
Did Brett Collins conflate Bamber’s psychopathic personality with being ‘bi-sexual’?
What turns on the psychopath?
The psychopath is sexually motivated by power—everything is a means to an end. If having a sexual relationship with a woman means that she will then trust him more or give him more money, he will perform the sexual task with Herculean bravado. Some of the women I have worked with who have gotten involved with psychopaths actually share how amazing sex can be with them.
‘Like much of their behavior, psychopaths have mastered the art of performance. They perform in areas of their lives most people wouldn’t even imagine—saying “I’m sorry” with the right sensitive tone, having seen an actor do it really well in a movie; professing love as if the world were to end the next day, reminiscent of lyrics from a popular song; always dressing the part wherever they may be, understanding that image and first impressions can lure others into their lair. When it comes to sex, psychopaths perform, too.
The psychopath who seeks to drain the bank account of a vulnerable but wealthy individual will have as much sex—or provide the best sex possible—if it helps him or her achieve that goal. Similarly, another psychopath who has sexual urges seeks a willing partner on whom to force himself and have sex as rough as necessary to discharge the dysregulated, hostile energy.
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And then I did a search for 'Mindhouse' and 'Bamber' and found a tweet from April from the JB Campaign team....and they sound really spooked by this doc. They are not happy. They are not happy one bit!
https://twitter.com/FreeBamberNow/status/1388172207180898305/photo/1
The tweet they released was a paranoid and hypocrisy filled statement denouncing the whole Mindhouse project. They complain that Mindhouse have obtained crime scene photos of the bodies of the deceased, which they've used 'unethically' in the doc.
They conveniently leave out the fact that they themselves, via Bamber and his lawyers, have published numerous dead body images of Sheila and June Bamber, all without legal permission, and without any thought to the dignity and respect of those people depicted in the photographs.
We've all had to put up with viewing faked photoshopped images of Sheila's wounds thanks to Jeremy Bamber and that support group of his.
I've got a feeling that Mindhouse/Sky Crime are going to finally put the record straight on all of this. And there is nothing that Jeremy Bamber or his lawyers can do to stop it.
The CT also published the following (Annual summary 2020 by Yvonne Hartley)
Documentary Series
We have had a lot of interest from filmmakers in the last 12 months regarding the production of a fact-based documentary, to include some of the brand-new evidence. We were at an advanced stage with one production house, however, owing to a number of serious issues, we had to withdraw from it. We are now in discussions with a number of other filmmakers, and the hope is that this will result in a brand new, factual documentary in the near future. .
How ‘advanced’ is ‘advanced’?
And was Mark Newby or any other lawyer involved?
Mark Newby a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans,
“It cannot be right that an author has been given material that Mr Bamber’s defence team have not seen, particularly in light of the persistent refusal by the CPS to disclose specific material we have been asking for. It raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice..”
‘Justice’ ?
justice
/ˈdʒʌstɪs/
noun
1.
just behaviour or treatment.
"a concern for justice, peace, and genuine respect for people"
What does Mark Newby think of the ‘work of fiction’ published by Scott Lomax and Roger Wilkes?
And will he be appearing alongside Poppy Ann Miller on Mindhouse TV’s forthcoming doc?
What about Simon McKay - who not long ago appeared on BBC’s ‘The Clydach Murders’ promoting the innocence fraud of psychopathic mass murderer and child killer David Morris?
And have Mindhouse approached Simon McKay re this http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=343.msg7197#msg7197
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On another note completely, whilst I was looking at all of the above, I idlily clicked on the link for the judges summing up, a bit random I know, but I discovered something I didn't preciously know...
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=273.0
This link contains the judges summing up from the time when the jury asked if they could 'hear the blood experts evidence regarding the blood in the silencer'.
I've never read that document before, but here is the Guardian newspapers version of the same event...
"After the jury were sent to reach a verdict, they returned and asked for clarification regarding the silencer. The judge told them it contained only the blood of Sheila Caffell. Seventeen minutes later, they returned and convicted Bamber by a 10 to two majority."
That statement above appears in the Guardian numerous times. It's copied and pasted into a number of articles on Jeremy Bamber. And up until now, I believed it. There was no reason not to believe it. But it turns out to be another nasty and needless lie from the Guardian newspaper about this case.
If you read the actual court transcript of the event described in the Guardian above, the truth is that where the Guardian states that 'the judge told them it contained only the blood of sheila Caffell', the transcript of the judges actual answer consisted of 10 pages of typed up transcript. That would be about 450 words a page, which would be approximately a 4500 word answer. So, a little bit more comprehensive that the one sentence answer as described in the Guardian.
And the Guardian newspaper said that the jury went away and deliberated this for 17 minutes. In reality they went away and deliberated this for 2 hours and forty minutes.
They came back after 2 hours and 40 minutes and declared that their decision was not unanimous, so the judge told them the rules, and that he would accept a 10-2 majority, he sent them away again and they came back 21 minutes later with their majority decision.
It looks like the Guardian newspaper has taken the 21 minute deliberation to get to a unanimous decision and falsely applied it to the deliberations about the judges answer to the blood in the silencer question.
Why do they feel the need to lie about this? It's relentless, and they are still doing it today. I hope that Mindhouse/Sky hold the Guardian newspaper to account over this.
Anyway...I'll stop now. Looking forward to that documentary though.
The ‘Guardian Newspaper’ or specific individuals who wrote the original articles?
Carol Ann Lee wrote an article for the Guardian - published in November 2020 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/15/women-sutcliffe-attack-institutional-sexism
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What did Bamber tell Aunt Agatha about all this?
Aunt Agatha
I gave up trying to convince people of his innocence years ago. The information I worked with was 'old' information.
⬇️
‘Blonde beauty Anji Greaves told last night how she began 25 days of passion with farmhouse massacre beast Jeremy Bamber… two days after he buried the family he slaughtered.
‘Anji said she gave the callous killer “everything he wanted” to comfort him because she believed he was grief-stricken over the deaths of his relatives.
‘But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also led to his downfall.
For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.
Anji, an old friend of Bamber’s, though not an old lover, said he looked her up to satisfy his desire for older women.
He called on her at her flat in Kensington, West London, two days after his parents were buried.
‘And Bamber had been seen …”sobbing uncontrollably” at the funeral, Anji said.
We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm around me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished.
He said he really wanted to get married …
(By Kieron Saunders and Shan Lancaster for the Sun newspaper - 29th October 1986)
(By Leo McKinstry for the Sun newspaper - 14th January 2020’
‘Yet he is still fooling people. Despite the strength of evidence against, there is a noisy campaign to have Bamber declared innocent.
Peddling its propaganda through websites, social media, and left-wing journals, this deluded brigade argues that Bamber is the victim of a “miscarriage of justice.”
He did not receive “a fair trial” because the proceedings against him were “highly irregular”, says the veteran human rights activist Peter Tatchell, while Eric Allison, patron of the official Bamber Campaign, calls the failure to release all the documents in the case “a shocking state of affairs.”
A vast range of conspiracy theories are said to be behind Bamber’s unsafe conviction, including a police cover-up, the greed of relatives angry at Bamber’s inheritance, the spite of his ex-girlfriend Julie Mugford, and shadowy political vested interests.
This is all offensive nonsense. The campaign is not only a moral disgrace but also had not a shred of justification.
It is shameful to see these zealots lining up behind a child killer whose defence is so threadbare and whose record is so evil.
https://www.thesun.ie/tvandshowbiz/television/4959075/jeremy-bambers-deluded-cheerleaders-are-a-disgrace-he-is-guilty-of-monstrous-white-house-farm-murders/
Will the forthcoming Mindhouse TV production explore the ‘Shadowy political vested interests’ referred to by Leo McKinstry and will their audience learn more insights from pages 2 & 3 - ‘You Wicked Man’ disclosed by Anji Greaves ?
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⬇️
‘Blonde beauty Anji Greaves told last night how she began 25 days of passion with farmhouse massacre beast Jeremy Bamber… two days after he buried the family he slaughtered.
‘Anji said she gave the callous killer “everything he wanted” to comfort him because she believed he was grief-stricken over the deaths of his relatives.
‘But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also led to his downfall.
For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.
Anji, an old friend of Bamber’s, though not an old lover, said he looked her up to satisfy his desire for older women.
He called on her at her flat in Kensington, West London, two days after his parents were buried.
‘And Bamber had been seen …”sobbing uncontrollably” at the funeral, Anji said.
We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm around me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished.
He said he really wanted to get married …
(By Kieron Saunders and Shan Lancaster for the Sun newspaper - 29th October 1986)
Who’s the author of this ⬇️ https://jeremybamber.org/jeremy-bamber/ ?
Coping with the tragedies at White House Farm
‘Everyone copes with trauma in different ways.
‘Jeremy had cheated on Julie Mugford with her friend Lizzie prior to the tragedies and he had also felt that his time with Julie had come to an end, so he broke of their relationship.
‘He turned to Virginia for comfort
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg590546#msg590546
The above link takes you to a copy of the original blog published on the CT website
Whoever did write it doesn’t appear to have factored in Anji (Angela) Greaves https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-girlfriend-of-jermey-bamber-attends-trial-107022017.html
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The CT statement reads,
‘Having done some preliminary work with them on a potential project, we were then advised by industry contacts that Mindhouse had somehow obtained crime scene photographs of the bodies of the deceased at the scene
they go on,
‘Police officers have disseminated distressing photographs of the deceased Bamber family to third parties…’
Why ‘police officers’ and not for example Mike Teskowski or Giovanni Di Stefano ?
What paperwork did Aunt Agatha have?
I know she thinks she has/had ‘his most valuable possessions’ ⬇️
I would like to add that our 'friendship' ended solely due to the lies and self seeking antics of Tracy Brazier from the Innocent Group. Her behaviour I found to be unsettling and most disturbing - I found myself on unfamiliar territory when having to defend myself against her lies in order to discredit me in the eyes of Jeremy and the Campaign.
Jeremy chose to question me regarding the false accusations made against me and when I felt him lying to me down the phone I chose to walk away from him. He did not drop me - I dropped him!!
He was someone for whom I strongly believed was wrongly imprisoned, he was alone and the nation had turned their back on this 'child killer'. I did what I could at the time, for many years, but I should honestly add it is nothing compared to what others have done recently using the web and new technology.
When our 'friendship' ended I was deeply saddened......and I was concerned for his own well being having become more aware of the 'new' people surrounding him. Liars, self seeking and deluded bamberettes and clever manipulators.....but I could do nothing more to help him. Whenever I informed him of 'their' antics he tried to assure me he knew exactly what these people were like and described alot of them just as I have here.
However, after almost 20 years of befriending this man, it came as somewhat of a relief to let others take over. I felt responsible for him for many years and it was a weight lifted the day we parted. Today, I only hope that those around him stay, as I did, when all else is lost.
I hold no resentment against Jeremy and will not attempt to make him out to be someone he is not. I don't feel it necessary to post his letters, our photo's etc......it was a strange relationship at the time, as he was in prison, but during our time together he was a most decent and respectable man.
I have come to believe and understand that Jeremy makes decisions based solely upon the information he receives from other in the outside world. If the information he receives comes from somebody who dislikes me or feels threatened by my position, then the information about me will be most negative. And, if that person can have Group members support her lies, by also writing to Jeremy, then I don't stand a chance. I refused to play the game and walked away. Quite happily.
Should he ever be released, then he will have to come and see me as I still hold his most valuable possessions from his family.....and his own. The truth comes out in the end.....one may just have to wait many years, but I'm in no rush at all!
I hope this gives some insight into those 20 years and gives answers to questions so far unanswered.
Aunt Agatha
I have twin sons and I thought it too dangerous to have a rifle in the house
Bamber didn’t
Surely Aunt Agatha won’t have contacted Mindhouse?
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Looks like her...
If that is Poppy Ann Miller - have they got her walking along ‘Tolleshunt D'Arcy Sea Wall path’ again or is that another location? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bgPu4k6HE9A
I hope we are mistaken
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Brett Collins to Kay Page
‘The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
Did Brett Collin’s tell the police the above when he was arrested and interviewed?
‘What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy’
Did Brett Collin’s always know of the ‘affair’ - which appears to mean Bamber was stringing both sisters along at the same time
According to BC latest interview (and Getty Images) that photo is of himself and Angela Greaves, Virginia's elder sister. They both set out to find a lawyer for Jeremy. Angela was thirty years old, six years older than Jeremy, had a previous affair with him, but it was Virginia, his latest squeeze who was at the Morshead Mansions flat when Julie rang and she answered the phone. Angela (Anji) posed as Jeremy's current girlfriend because Virginia was about to get married to another man and wanted to keep this info from the press. That's how I understand it.
Brett does appear to be referring to Virginia (The younger Greaves sister) as Bamber’s ‘mistress’
‘She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered’
Anji Greaves didn’t apparently have a ‘previous affair’ with Bamber that apparently was Virginia Greaves
Why did Brett Collin’s refer to Bamber’s cheating as an ‘affair’ ?
Or was he referring to Virginia’s ‘affair’ because she was apparently due to marry?
And why didn’t he appear to recognise the ‘affair’ - at that time - would have included Julie?
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Brett Collins to Kay Page
‘About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
So did Virginia perjure herself in order for her fiancé to not learn she was cheating on him with Bamber?
Let’s hope Mindhouse have explored this with Brett Collins because ‘nobody actually knows this until now’
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If that is Poppy Ann Miller - have they got her walking along ‘Tolleshunt D'Arcy Sea Wall path’ again or is that another location? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bgPu4k6HE9A
I hope we are mistaken
Maybe she’s recognised Bamber to be the sadistic psychopath he is - presuming it’s her ?
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Brett Collins to Kay Page
‘About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press.[/i][/b]
By ‘they’ was Brett Collin’s referring to the Greaves sisters, Bamber, his legal team? Who did he mean exactly?
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Will be interesting to learn if Mindhouse asks Brett Collins on camera whether or not he and Bamber had ‘bi-sexual’ sex - unless Bamber told Brett Collins he was ‘bi-sexual’ as opposed to having sex with Bamber for him to have established this
I presume Mindhouse will be aware of Brett Collin’s interview with Kay Page and of what he disclosed to her
Brett Collins
‘Originally there was more to our friendship when I first met him because I was bisexual also, and we just hit it off, way before I have met his girlfriend. His girlfriend and he weren’t actually what you’d call monogamous friendship. He had several girls at the same time, that all thought that they were his girlfriend. He was quite different in his sexuality. https://www.dropbox.com/s/11mghhbs3afi32m/Episode%20-%20Brett%20Collins.pdf?dl=0
Th CT team have recently claimed Brett Collin’s to be ‘a homosexual’
From approx 6:00 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=159bxYsekQY
But he told Kay Page he’s ‘bisexual’
The CT also refer to a diary made by Robert Boutflour on 7th September 1985 where he refers to Bamber having apparently,
‘1. shacked up with 2 BOAC British overseas airways corporations stewards in their flat before catching a home bound plane after 10 days in the place. Gay’
2. His visit to New Zealand was short lived. He returned very suddenly in fact had to spend 10 days in Singapore or Hong Kong without a cent in his pocket. He met up with and shared a flat with 2 BOAC stewards. Gay.
3.Jim postulates that Jeremy had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. Why else would he have to spend 10 days in Hong Kong or Singapore without a cent in his pocket. He boasted he had met 2 BAOC stewards and shared their flat with them. Gay
4. He had been lent money to indulge on a world tour which took him to Australia’s and New Zealand. June had worried thst he had made friends with a man who had just come out of prison. On his return to this country he had refused to help on the Farm preferring to earn a wage as an assistant in the kitchen of a little chef at rivenhall end. At this time he was seen accompanying a young man with a feather in his ear and a gay relationship was suspected.
Maybe Mindhouse productions will question why HMPPS allegedly haven’t diagnosed Bamber as a psychopath for these past 3 plus decades.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=159bxYsekQY
There was also reference to Bamber being ‘a money hungry sexual predator’ - which sums him up fairly well alongside being a mass murderer and child killer
Will be interesting to hear what Robert Boutflour has to say during his forthcoming interview - he seems to have had Bamber well and truly sussed out
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=159bxYsekQY
The CT refer to a diary made by Robert Boutflour on 7th September 1985 where he refers to Bamber having apparently,
‘1. shacked up with 2 BOAC British overseas airways corporations stewards in their flat before catching a home bound plane after 10 days in the place. Gay’
2. His visit to New Zealand was short lived. He returned very suddenly in fact had to spend 10 days in Singapore or Hong Kong without a cent in his pocket. He met up with and shared a flat with 2 BOAC stewards. Gay.
3.Jim postulates that Jeremy had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. Why else would he have to spend 10 days in Hong Kong or Singapore without a cent in his pocket. He boasted he had met 2 BAOC stewards and shared their flat with them. Gay
4. He had been lent money to indulge on a world tour which took him to Australia’s and New Zealand. June had worried thst he had made friends with a man who had just come out of prison. On his return to this country he had refused to help on the Farm preferring to earn a wage as an assistant in the kitchen of a little chef at rivenhall end. At this time he was seen accompanying a young man with a feather in his ear and a gay relationship was suspected.
This pretty much ties in with what Brett Collins told Kay Page http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12056.msg648680#msg648680
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There was also reference to Bamber being ‘a money hungry sexual predator’ - which sums him up fairly well alongside being a mass murderer and child killer
I suspect the police may well be aware of other violent offences committed by Bamber which he wasn’t prosecuted for, like the ‘incident’ involving the girl from the Chequers public house
There could well be others ….
Will Mindhouse highlight these?
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‘Blonde beauty Anji Greaves told last night how she began 25 days of passion with farmhouse massacre beast Jeremy Bamber… two days after he buried the family he slaughtered.
‘Anji said she gave the callous killer “everything he wanted” to comfort him because she believed he was grief-stricken over the deaths of his relatives.
‘But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also led to his downfall.
For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.
Anji, an old friend of Bamber’s, though not an old lover, said he looked her up to satisfy his desire for older women.
He called on her at her flat in Kensington, West London, two days after his parents were buried.
‘And Bamber had been seen …”sobbing uncontrollably” at the funeral, Anji said.
We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm around me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished.
He said he really wanted to get married …
(By Kieron Saunders and Shan Lancaster for the Sun newspaper - 29th October 1986)
“Sitting beside him was Angela Greaves, Virginia’s older sister. A beautician six years Jeremys senior, ‘Anji’ had quickly grown close to Jeremy following his visits with Virginia: ‘The poor chap was on Valium and he was drinking. He had nobody to turn to. His relatives were fighting over everything. It was awful, bloody awful’ Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy had become lovers before his arrest and it was their affair, rather than with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named him as the murderer.”
“Regardless of what lay behind Julies motivations to go to the police, Anji was there to meet Jeremy upon his release.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from her book, ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=the+sun+anji+greaves+jeremy+bamber&source=bl&ots=h8PnNHTkTl&sig=ACfU3U1NpuMY9WW_GJ0UKEtiEAeZmVwONg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwics4rWi4LpAhWEoFwKHYIID8oQ6AEwBHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sun%20anji%20greaves%20jeremy%20bamber&f=false
It’s a shame Carol Ann Lee didn’t appear to recognise killer Bamber was triangulating each and every person he came into contact with?
According to Anji Greaves interview following Bamber’s murder trial, reported by Kieron Saunders and Shan Lancaster, he was using another classic abuse tactic referred to as ‘hoovering’, ‘He called on her at her flat in Kensington, West London, two days after his parents were buried.’
Bamber was also ‘hoovering’ Julie Mugford, Virginia Greaves (Anji’s sister) and he ‘hoovered’ people like Charles Marsden - on the day after he’d committed mass murder
‘Hoovering, hoovered, hoover manoeuvre ⬇️
‘The hoover maneuver is an attempt to see if a prior target of abuse can be conned into another cycle of abuse, resulting in the abusive person reclaiming a sense of power and control by causing pain (emotional and sometimes physical) to a target.
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/hoover-maneuver-the-dirty-secret-of-emotional-abuse-0219154
’Got an Overbearing Ex? They Might Be Hoovering’ https://www.healthline.com/health/hoovering
Bamber’s note to Julie Mugford - whilst he was in prison on remand - was another ‘hoover manoeuvre’
Anji Greaves apparently received 100 odd letters from Bamber whilst he was in prison on remand waiting to stand trial - but I don’t suppose she was aware of the note he sent to Julie
Bamber hoovers ‘by proxy’ too
’5 Ways Malignant Narcissists 'Hoover' Their Victims’ https://psychcentral.com/blog/recovering-narcissist/2019/12/5-ways-malignant-narcissists-hoover-their-victims#1
‘This type of Hoover normally occurs when the narcissist has already drained his or her current sources of narcissistic supply or wants to tap into the resources of a prior victim. In order to regain control over the previous victim, the narcissist will claim that they “miss” and “love” you, that they simply cannot live without you, or that they need your help with something (usually a manufactured emergency or fabricated illness).
‘Narcissists may Hoover in a number of ways: by provoking the victim, waxing poetically about how they’ve changed, or even more sadistically, flaunting a new partner to their previous one after a particularly callous silent treatment or discard. Here are some of the most common ways they Hoover, and how to spot the signs you have been the victim of this manipulation:
Bamber did this ⬆️ to Colin Caffell http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11456.msg588414#msg588414
‘The most sadistic of narcissists will go out of their way to use their Hoover to inflict even more cruelty and damage on their former victims, especially if they see those victims start to move forward with their lives
Here’s the original blurb ⬇️ which suggests it will be portraying Bamber as guilty
‘The Bambers: Murder at the Farm (working title) examines the tragic murder of a family at a secluded English farmhouse in 1985. The three-part true-crime series uses first-hand testimony and unseen archive footage to reflect on the events and the conviction of Jeremy Bamber, who was brother to murdered mother Sheila Caffell.
Theroux, who executive produces alongside Arron Fellows, said: “A big part of wanting to start a production company a little over a year ago was to make programs that I don’t appear in… It’s a story that’s socially important, with a powerfully compelling narrative, and the intention is to tell it in a way that is both sensitive and creatively ambitious.”
Will be interesting to see what story Louis Theroux & co deems to be ‘socially important’
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A documentary that looks at both the cult and the case of Bamber i would watch but it's fair to point out that we don't know what the tone and content will be yet. It's perhaps a good sign the CT are worried but remember, the CT complained about the ITV drama before it was aired because they weren't allowed to write and direct but actually, IMO, it oversimplified the case against him making his conviction look much weaker than it really is,
Agreed
In the 2002 Court of Appeal (CoA) judgement it’s stated at para 110 here http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
‘She and the appellant spent the following weekend with Colin Caffell and on 12 August she went to the house in Goldhanger with the appellant. There he told her that the police had been a bit slack because they had not done all the fingerprinting at White House Farm. On 16 August Miss Mugford attended the funerals of Nevill and June Bamber with the appellant and then on 19 August the funerals of Sheila Caffell and her children. During that period the witness spoke of the appellant taking her out for frequent meals, and buying expensive clothes for himself and for her. She described the appellant's mood during this period as "very happy". After one of the funerals they drank champagne and cocktails.
What’s not factored into the above is what occurred on the 18th August when Bamber ‘hoovered’ Anji Greaves, the day before ‘the funerals of Sheila Caffell and her children’
‘Anji, an old friend of Bamber’s, though not an old lover, said he looked her up to satisfy his desire for older women.
He called on her at her flat in Kensington, West London, two days after his parents were buried.
‘And Bamber had been seen …”sobbing uncontrollably” at the funeral, Anji said.
We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm around me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished.
He said he really wanted to get married …
(By Kieron Saunders and Shan Lancaster for the Sun newspaper - 29th October 1986)
When Bamber told Anji Greaves ‘he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished’ did he tell Anji he had been taking Julie ‘out for frequent meals, and buying expensive clothes for himself and for her’ ?
Then at Para 111 from CoA judgement
‘Miss Mugford spent the weekend of 17-18 August 1985 with the appellant in Eastbourne and it was then that she began to ask how he could behave as he was doing. She kept telling him "£2,000 for five lives". The following week the couple went to Amsterdam for two days, staying in expensive hotels and eating out. On 27 August Miss Mugford returned alone to her lodgings in London and she told her friend Susan Battersby of what the appellant had done.
So after what was possibly an exhausting weekend in Eastbourne Bamber called on Anji Greaves ‘flat in Kensington, West London’
What did Anji Greaves think about Bamber taking Julie to ‘Amsterdam for two days, staying in expensive hotels and eating out’ on the 25th - 26th August after supposedly asking her ‘how to tell her they were finished’? And where did Bamber tell Anji he was when he went to Amsterdam and who did he tell her he was with?
Para 112
‘On Saturday 31 August Julie Mugford asked the appellant whether he loved her. He said he did not know. Again they spoke about the murders. Miss Mugford said she could not cope with him behaving so normally and asked why he had told her what had happened. She said she felt guilt for the two of them. The appellant told her he was doing everybody a favour and there was nothing to feel guilty about. Later that night the appellant told her that she was the best friend he had ever had and he had entrusted his life to her.
Para 113
‘On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila Caffell. Again Miss Mugford raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation the appellant received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Miss Mugford heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped the appellant. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. Four days later, she went to the police
Was Virginia Greaves an ‘ex girlfriend’ when she allegedly phoned Bamber or was it at this time they were having ‘an affair’ ?
Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex* I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
*Julie made it clear in her evidence to police she was NOT having sex with Bamber
The ITV drama didn’t factor in any of the above.
Did Carol Ann Lee recognise these significant factors at the time of researching and writing her book?
It appears to me Virginia Greaves perjured herself to cover for both herself and her older sister Anji.
Anji’s ‘affair’ with Bamber would surely have caused issues between the sisters plus Virginia was seemingly ‘getting married’ to someone else.
This would also highlight Bamber’s further infidelities and behaviours patterns in that he was apparently sleeping with both sisters at/around the same time?]
What were Anji and Virginia Greaves told by Bamber, if anything, about the ‘incident’ when he ‘became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back’ And if they were told anything by Bamber what did they tell the police?
And what was Brett Collins evidence given to police at the time and what does he say now?
Para 139 of CoA judgement
‘Apart from Julie Mugford the appellant suggested that other witnesses had told lies about him during the trial. They included Mrs Mugford, James Richards, Dorothy Foakes and Robert Boutflour.
What about Virginia Greaves lies?
Not read or seen any w/s of what either sister said. Only CAL's interpretation of what occured...
'Brett called at the cafe to remind Jeremy that the antiques dealer was due, so they all returned to the flat.
While the dealer was looking through the items from the farm, the telephone rang.Jeremy answered, speaking ‘in a friendly manner’ to the caller.
‘Who is it?’ Julie asked, growing suspicious.
‘Virginia,’ he said.
Julie knew at once that he meant Virginia Greaves, and asked him to put the phone down.When he carried on talking, she cut the call herself.
They then began to argue and Jeremy admitted he was seeing Virginia.
When the telephone rang again and he answered it, Julie stormed through to Sheila’s bedroom.
‘I was so angry,’ she remembered. ‘I picked up a Chinese box of Jeremy’s and threw it against a mirror, which smashed.’
Still on the line, Virginia heard the splintering glass. ‘What’s that?’ she asked.
Jeremy replied, ‘Oh, Julie just smashing some plates up.’
There was another crash.
‘What’s that?’ asked Virginia again.
‘Julie’s just put her wrists through the window.’
Shocked, Virginia told him definitely, ‘I don’t want anything to do with that and I’ll speak to you some time.’
And Bambers lies to Virginia Greaves - or was it Anji Greaves who phoned Bamber?
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A documentary that looks at both the cult and the case of Bamber i would watch but it's fair to point out that we don't know what the tone and content will be yet.
It’s possible the doc may touch on the cult like ‘high control group’ of Bamber and his fans
Carol Ann Lee was subjected to a great deal of abuse - which could well get a mention?
https://twitter.com/shattenstone/status/1256170632670261248
Simon Hattenstone for the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-seek-review-of-cps-refusal-to-disclose-evidence
Mass murderer, child killer & sexual predator Bamber stated at the time, ‘It is disgusting that a third party was provided with documents and sensitive photographs’ 🙄
Where did Mike Teskowski get his copies? What about that MP Andrew Hunter - where did he get his copies?
Some background https://www.panmacmillan.com/blogs/crime-thriller/an-unusual-correpondence
Carol Ann Lee
‘he states baldly that he can 'no longer write meaningful letters' about his case’
The above for me seems to be one of the ‘innocence’ fraudster/killer’s go to lines 🙄
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Virgina seemingly ‘posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister’
Did Brett Collins actually mean Virginia Greaves ‘posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister’ - when she gave evidence at Bamber’s murder trial?
Have Mindhouse TV tracked Virginia Greaves down for their forthcoming doc or has she, or her sister, made contact with them?
Could the Greaves sisters have got in touch with Mindhouse TV after watching the ITV drama?
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A documentary that looks at both the cult and the case of Bamber i would watch but it's fair to point out that we don't know what the tone and content will be yet. It's perhaps a good sign the CT are worried but remember, the CT complained about the ITV drama before it was aired because they weren't allowed to write and direct but actually, IMO, it oversimplified the case against him making his conviction look much weaker than it really is, at the same time raising the profile of the case for a while and of those interested in finding out more,
I thought the ITV drama ‘oversimplified’ Bamber’s psychopathic personality and behaviours at/around the time he committed the murders. They seemed to play down the calculating and deviant side to his personality.
I didn’t agree with Carol Ann Lee here
I don’t agree with CAL here https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/ at around 28.00 Julie ‘knew’ that the murders he’d been talking about had happened that night
Hopefully the forthcoming doc will include first hand experiences of individuals who have walked in the similar shoes to people like Julie Mugford - who have first hand knowledge of the cognitive dissonance and denials experienced during and after a relationship with a sadistic psychopath like Bamber
For Carol Ann Lee to say Julie Mugford ‘knew’ Bamber had committed the murders was wrong and unfair
Carol Ann Lee talks about the ‘grey area’ regarding the phone but doesn’t appear to have considered or understood the ‘grey areas’ when it comes to being in a relationship with a psychopathic killer
For context from around 26:00 ⬇️
https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/
Julie Mugford would NOT have known her boyfriend had just murdered 5 members of his family!
And for me Carol Ann Lee was wrong to ever suggest this publicly like she did
It’s not as black and white as, ‘so she knew the murders that he’d been talking about had happened that night’
Carol Ann Lee even appeared to give a subtle emphasis on the word ‘knew’ - which for me I found telling
-
For Carol Ann Lee to say Julie Mugford ‘knew’ Bamber had committed the murders was wrong and unfair
Although Carol Ann Lee’s book on the case was meticulously researched (From what I’ve read of it via google books & heard from others who know the case well) I don’t consider her to be ‘the’ expert on the case or on Bamber’s campaign
Does anyone know if Scott Lomax or Roger Wilkes were or are involved with Mindhouse TV’s doc?
Were either of them contacted by Mindhouse or vice versa?
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The CT also refer to a diary made by Robert Boutflour on 7th September 1985 where he refers to Bamber having apparently,
‘1. shacked up with 2 BOAC British overseas airways corporations stewards in their flat before catching a home bound plane after 10 days in the place. Gay’
2. His visit to New Zealand was short lived. He returned very suddenly in fact had to spend 10 days in Singapore or Hong Kong without a cent in his pocket. He met up with and shared a flat with 2 BOAC stewards. Gay.
3.Jim postulates that Jeremy had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. Why else would he have to spend 10 days in Hong Kong or Singapore without a cent in his pocket. He boasted he had met 2 BAOC stewards and shared their flat with them. Gay
4. He had been lent money to indulge on a world tour which took him to Australia’s and New Zealand. June had worried thst he had made friends with a man who had just come out of prison. On his return to this country he had refused to help on the Farm preferring to earn a wage as an assistant in the kitchen of a little chef at rivenhall end. At this time he was seen accompanying a young man with a feather in his ear and a gay relationship was suspected.
Maybe Mindhouse productions will question why HMPPS allegedly haven’t diagnosed Bamber as a psychopath for these past 3 plus decades.
Could Bamber have been referring to one of the BAOC stewards above in this letter (Which can only be viewed if you are logged on to the forum and click on the link)
Oh, Bamber was a charmer alright! Rumpy-pumpie in the sky with a total stranger
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Is that Poppy Ann Miller in the trailer ?
I recognised Carol Ann Lee
https://twitter.com/MindhouseTV/status/1437001289817264135
Looks like her... along with Peter Sutherst, some other supporter, David Boutflour, Brett Collins and a cheapo Blue Peter WHF model made from cardboard, sticky-backed plastic and plasticine...
Or could it be Anji Greaves?
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Latest from Mark Newby
Posted on June 5, 2020
’As part of the run into this case there was criticism that Jeremy Bamber was advancing a narrative of misconduct by Essex Police which was unsubstantiated , yet it was revealed just 24 hours before the hearing , following concerns that had been raised by Jeremy Bamber , that a former senior investigating officer in the case Michael Ainsley had not only taken sensitive material from the investigation home , but he had passed documents to the author of the Book , Carol Ann Lee , which led to the ITV Drama and then taken it upon himself to destroy evidence .
Jeremy Bamber is represented by Mark Newby of QualitySolicitors Jordans – https://www.qualitysolicitors.com/jordans/our-people/mark-newby
His Counsel are:
Joe Stone QC https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/barristers/joe-stone-qc http://kbgchambers.co.uk/members-Exeter-Plymouth-Truro
Matt Stanbury https://gcnchambers.co.uk/barrister/matthew-stanbury/
https://www.qualitysolicitors.com/jordans/news/2020/06/jeremy-bamber-high-court-in-declining-disclosure-leaves-door-firmly-open-to-ccrc
It was Michael Ainsley who referred to Bamber as a ‘money hungry sexual predator’
Again - How many allegations were made to police re Bamber’s violent and sadistic nature prior to his arrest for mass murder - during the police investigation and leading up to his trial
And what other allegations have been made to the police since Bamber was convicted which the public aren’t aware of?
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A documentary that looks at both the cult and the case of Bamber i would watch
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Jeremy Bamber Campaign Team Blog - Mindhouse production is not based on evidence! https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com
12:50 pm · 16 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
They contacted me, but obviously my knowledge of this case was not a match for their agenda! So desperately sad that they were not interested in THE TRUTH Crying facePouting face #shameonthem
12:53 pm · 16 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1438470457515200521
@)(++(*
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Well police were speaking to someone, they phoned and someone picked up, then left the phone off the hook!
Quote Tweet
Jeremy Bamber
@FreeBamberNow
· 14 Sep
Sheila was alive and active inside the house whilst Jeremy was outside with the police and we can prove it! Listen to the timeline of events here and see for yourself:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5grDYRwWpfSCUBvuEmOuPz…
12:47 pm · 16 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
-
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Jeremy Bamber Campaign Team Blog - Mindhouse production is not based on evidence! https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com (https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com)
12:50 pm · 16 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
They contacted me, but obviously my knowledge of this case was not a match for their agenda![/size] So desperately sad that they were not interested in THE TRUTH Crying facePouting face #shameonthem
12:53 pm · 16 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1438470457515200521 (https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1438470457515200521)
@)(++(*
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Well police were speaking to someone, they phoned and someone picked up, then left the phone off the hook!
Quote Tweet
Jeremy Bamber
@FreeBamberNow
· 14 Sep
Sheila was alive and active inside the house whilst Jeremy was outside with the police and we can prove it! Listen to the timeline of events here and see for yourself:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5grDYRwWpfSCUBvuEmOuPz (https://open.spotify.com/episode/5grDYRwWpfSCUBvuEmOuPz)…
12:47 pm · 16 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
Such as when she was watching the 1985 WHF siege live on TV........ at 5am......... in Ireland, LOL !!!
She needs to have an in-depth head to head with Pat Brown, who will no doubt put her on the right track.
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Or could it be Anji Greaves?
No, definitely Poppy Miller. Google images first on the list, compare nose and depth of philtrum with side profile in Mindhouse photo.
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No, definitely Poppy Miller. Google images first on the list, compare nose and depth of philtrum with side profile in Mindhouse photo.
... and fineness, shade and length of hair.
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... and fineness, shade and length of hair.
... and straight dimple.
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Such as when she was watching the 1985 WHF siege live on TV........ at 5am......... in Ireland, LOL !!!
She needs to have an in-depth head to head with Pat Brown, who will no doubt put her on the right track.
https://youtu.be/drfIypw4wqM?t=1247 (https://youtu.be/drfIypw4wqM?t=1247)
-
https://youtu.be/drfIypw4wqM?t=1247 (https://youtu.be/drfIypw4wqM?t=1247)
@)(++(*
-
Such as when she was watching the 1985 WHF siege live on TV........ at 5am......... in Ireland, LOL !!!
She needs to have an in-depth head to head with Pat Brown, who will no doubt put her on the right track.
I don’t suppose Pat Brown or anyone could ‘put her on the right track’ now - she’s too far gone. Her and her brother - who still poses a risk to females because of his dangerous sexual predatory behaviour and by all accounts is still having to be monitored under MAPPA restrictions (Or whatever it is in Ireland - presuming he’s still there?)
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Such as when she was watching the 1985 WHF siege live on TV........ at 5am......... in Ireland, LOL !!!
She needs to have an in-depth head to head with Pat Brown, who will no doubt put her on the right track.
She appears to me to be a pathological liar - in a similar way to her brother.
Mindhouse TV will most probably debunk her deception in their first episode
A snippet of Michelle Diskin Bates lies and deception ⬇️
🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@tara_snow
@DebraClaridge
and 3 others
No, I and the many others do NOT make things up in this case, everything is taken from documents. There are just TOO MANY discrepancies and too much non-disclosure. Much is being hidden and this is not the only wrongful conviction treated in this way.
8:51 pm · 5 Feb 2020·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1225160056238460931
🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
I won’t back a claim unless I can see the case evidence...there is none linking Robin to his wife’s murder...but much pointing away - towards other hands. The murderer is walking free, and may even have killed again
‘Thursday, 4 August 2016 - Michelle Diskin Bates
‘"It was well after midnight on August 6th 1985 and I couldn’t sleep. Switching on the T.V., I absent-mindedly tuned into a news channel. We were living in Co. Cork, in Southern Ireland, and I was joyfully awaiting the birth of our first child who was already overdue, making me feel restless; that was why I was up and about at such an hour.
Becoming aware of a breaking-news story I began to listen in more closely. A siege was taking place at a farmhouse in England. The broadcaster relayed that five people were inside and there was great fear for their safety. As the story unfolded it became apparent that this was an older couple. A farmer and retired Magistrate, Nevill Bamber and his wife, June; their daughter, Sheila, and her six year old twin sons. Jeremy, their son, was outside with police who were trying to communicate with someone inside the house who had been seen pacing back and forth in front of an upstairs window and carrying a firearm. The reporter said that police were reluctant to get too close to the house for fear of causing that person to become more agitated, thereby, escalating the danger to the family. I watched for an hour or so but there was no resolution and, heavily pregnant, I became exhausted and had to go off to bed.
Awaking early I was anxious for news, hopefully of a rescue, so I put the News on immediately. The siege was over, police had stormed the house and five bodies had been found inside. I was heartbroken, a whole family! My heart went out to the young man who had waited all night long with the police for news of his family; this was not what he wanted to hear.
My own child was born a few days later and I became engrossed in motherhood. It was a real shock to hear, sometime later, that the son, Jeremy Bamber, had been arrested for the killings…how was that possible when he was outside during the siege and everyone knew that? I presumed the police knew something we did not; there must have been strong evidence to convict a man of killing his entire family…I pushed my unease aside and got on with motherhood and my own life.
Since then I have revisited the facts of this case in light of so many high-profile miscarriage of justice cases coming to light, including that of my own brother, Barry George, for the murder of Jill Dando. More recently we’ve heard of the lies and cover-ups in the Hillsborough deaths and The Chilcot report exposing the same type of cover ups in the Iraqi war scandal. In the Bamber case I can find no evidence to convince me of the guilt of this man. Nothing that can account for a man languishing in jail for more than thirty years. How did a jury convict a young man without proof?
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html
Pat Brown did a podcast on Barry George
’What if Jill Dando was NOT targeted at all? What if her death was NOT a premeditated killing?’
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrXccaA1b8&feature=youtu.be
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No, definitely Poppy Miller. Google images first on the list, compare nose and depth of philtrum with side profile in Mindhouse photo.
Yes I thought it was
So what’s the deal with the photos of Angela Greaves? Are they all of her?
There’s one photo from 6th November 1985 referring to her as a ‘former girlfriend’
Then there’s these two ⬇️ where the ages differ and the bottom one refers to Anji as his ‘former girlfriend’ again age 24 ?
30th October 1985
‘Mr Brett Collins and Angela Greaves, the 29-year-old girlfriend of Jeremy Bamber, accused of killing five members of his own family.’ https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-girlfriend-of-jermey-bamber-attends-trial-107022017.html
6th November 1985
‘Angela Greaves, a former girlfriend of farmer Jeremy Bamber (24) of Goldhanger, Essex. Bamber, accused of the murder of five members of his family, was further remanded by magistrates in Maldon, Essex.’
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-crime-murder-jeremy-bamber-maldon-1985-111059828.html
What does Aunt Agatha make of all this?
And did Bamber tell her what Brett Collins knew? ⬇️
Brett Collins to Kay Page
‘They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
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‘They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. (Anji) What turned out was that her younger sister (Virginia) was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She (Virginia) answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress (Virginia) answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she (Virginia) was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d (Virginia) been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her (Anji) through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister (Virginia) because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She (Anji) posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister (Virginia) and they all (Virginia & Anji) went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister (Virginia) that who was getting married’
So did Anji (Angela) Greaves fake the Sun news story - is that what Brett Collins means?
Was it all a Con and if so who’s idea was it?
Para 113
‘On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila Caffell. Again Miss Mugford raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation the appellant received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Miss Mugford heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped the appellant. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. Four days later, she went to the police
Virginia Greaves wouldn’t have been Bamber’s ‘ex girlfriend’ at the time she’d have been his current girlfriend or ‘mistress’ because she was engaged and due to marry someone else
‘Blonde beauty Anji Greaves told last night how she began 25 days of passion with farmhouse massacre beast Jeremy Bamber… two days after he buried the family he slaughtered.
‘Anji said she gave the callous killer “everything he wanted” to comfort him because she believed he was grief-stricken over the deaths of his relatives.
‘But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also led to his downfall.
For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.
Anji, an old friend of Bamber’s, though not an old lover, said he looked her up to satisfy his desire for older women.
He called on her at her flat in Kensington, West London, two days after his parents were buried.
‘And Bamber had been seen …”sobbing uncontrollably” at the funeral, Anji said.
We were just sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass. He put his arm around me and we kissed.
He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they were finished.
He said he really wanted to get married …
(By Kieron Saunders and Shan Lancaster for the Sun newspaper - 29th October 1986)
So Anji was ‘posing’ as Bamber’s girlfriend because Virginia was getting married and wouldn’t have wanted her picture all over the newspapers but it was actually Virginia all along ?
So Anji conned The Sun newspaper ? She wasn’t a former or current girlfriend or a mistress ?
And Bamber didn’t look ‘her up to satisfy his desire for older women’
This was manufactured nonsense alongside the misogynistic nonsense Julie Mugford was ‘a scorned women’ 🙄
‘But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also led to his downfall.
For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.
*&^^&
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So Anji was ‘posing’ as Bamber’s girlfriend because Virginia was getting married and wouldn’t have wanted her picture all over the newspapers but it was actually Virginia all along ?
Did you know this ⬆️ Aunt Agatha ?
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Such as when she was watching the 1985 WHF siege live on TV........ at 5am......... in Ireland, LOL !!!
She needs to have an in-depth head to head with Pat Brown, who will no doubt put her on the right track.
It’s the ‘eminent’ Michelle Diskin Bates - I omitted that in previous posts 🙄
Michelle MoJ Diskin Bates
MOJO Conference in Glasgow in 2007. Cannot believe I was a guest speaker, with so many other eminent people. So proud to be a part of such an event. Gerry and Paddy always spoke so eloquently. I sure Eamonn O'Neill spoke at this conference, too, along with Terry Waite CBE. This conference was called to try to highlight the PTSD of both, retuning service-people and MOJs, released, without any assistance. MOJO wanted government support to set up a centre to help those who needed help integrating back into society because of trauma.
Stand against injustice
I’d love to claim MY compensation from News of the World for the hacking of my phone, but police say mine was never hacked.
Never hacked? On one of the highest profile murder cases in the UK! Of course it was hacked, just as our landlines were tapped, I had to get my line cleared twice!
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40345616.html
Fraud Mark Williams Thomas - another promoter of innocence fraud https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/police-need-admit-wrong-man-20935527
Ex-detective Mark Williams-Thomas says White House Farm killer Jeremy Bamber is innocent https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9265605/Ex-detective-says-White-House-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-innocent-believes-sister-murdered-family.html
Very much doubt Mindhouse TV will be including him in their forthcoming doc or maybe they will?
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So did Anji (Angela) Greaves fake the Sun news story - is that what Brett Collins means?
Was it all a Con and if so who’s idea was it?
Para 113
‘On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila Caffell. Again Miss Mugford raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation the appellant received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Miss Mugford heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped the appellant. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. Four days later, she went to the police
Virginia Greaves wouldn’t have been Bamber’s ‘ex girlfriend’ at the time she’d have been his current girlfriend or ‘mistress’ because she was engaged and due to marry someone else
So Anji was ‘posing’ as Bamber’s girlfriend because Virginia was getting married and wouldn’t have wanted her picture all over the newspapers but it was actually Virginia all along ?
So Anji conned The Sun newspaper ?
Does anyone know if Anji Greaves received a payment for her story in the Sun newspaper?
Or was a payment not made - like in the case of convicted fraudster Surjit Singh Clair - who represented convicted/exonerated murderer Barry George prior to and following his release from custody
‘The judge said Clair's behaviour was worse because he tried to make a "significant personal profit" by selling the story. The Express newspaper agreed to pay £6,000 to Clair for the tale of the attack, but the money was never handed over after police became suspicious of Cotter's claims.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/olympian-s-boyfriend-jailed-fake-attack-9131683.html
Will be interesting if this is being explored by Mindhouse TV
Does anyone know what happened to Brian Cathcarts 2008 article for the Newstatesman headed ‘to protect the innocent’ on Barry George?
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Does anyone know if Anji Greaves received a payment for her story in the Sun newspaper?
Or was a payment not made - like in the case of convicted fraudster Surjit Singh Clair - who represented convicted/exonerated murderer Barry George in 2007/2008 following his release from custody
‘The judge said Clair's behaviour was worse because he tried to make a "significant personal profit" by selling the story. The Express newspaper agreed to pay £6,000 to Clair for the tale of the attack, but the money was never handed over after police became suspicious of Cotter's claims.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/olympian-s-boyfriend-jailed-fake-attack-9131683.html
’Louis Theroux on Journalism in the Era of Fake News and Populism | Edinburgh TV Festival 2019’
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NS-Iv-FCEw
“For me, one of the best parts of launching Mindhouse is being involved behind the scenes with new talent who can tell fresh stories in different and exciting ways…."
Louis Theroux
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Does anyone know if Anji Greaves received a payment for her story in the Sun newspaper?
If Anji (Angela) Greaves wasn’t Bamber’s girlfriend but was ‘posing’ as his girlfriend and was paid for her story by the Sun - she would be guilty of obtaining property by deception - as in the case of Surjit Singh Clair
Surjit Singh Clair was found guilty of perverting the course of Justice and he received an additional 12 months in prison for attempting to obtain property by deception
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Coping with the tragedies at White House Farm
Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow. His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him. Julie had contrived a convoluted story to the police, and his relatives had turned against him and by their own admission, were taking belongings from his family home without his permission.[11] Colin Caffell had become distant and had written to him saying that the relatives had insisted that Jeremy was duping him and was definitely guilty and Colin didn’t know what to believe now his beautiful twins were dead and Jeremy had been arrested and released without charge.
I don’t know if the author of the above reads this forum but if they do,
Virginia Greaves was engaged to be married to someone else - she was Bamber’s ‘mistress’ not his girlfriend - they were having an ‘affair’. Her ‘love’ was for another man - who presumably she went on to marry(?)
But it would appear the ‘contrived’ & ‘convoluted ‘ story came from the Greave sisters and Bamber NOT Julie Mugford
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Coping with the tragedies at White House Farm
Jeremy had continued smoking pot, taking prescribed sedatives[10] and alcohol to drown out the shock, pain and sorrow. His arrest and high media profile prompted his new love Virginia to turn her back on him. Julie had contrived a convoluted story to the police, and his relatives had turned against him and by their own admission, were taking belongings from his family home without his permission.[11] Colin Caffell had become distant and had written to him saying that the relatives had insisted that Jeremy was duping him and was definitely guilty and Colin didn’t know what to believe now his beautiful twins were dead and Jeremy had been arrested and released without charge..
I don’t know if the author of the above reads this forum but if they do,
Virginia Greaves was engaged to be married to someone else - she was Bamber’s ‘mistress’ not his girlfriend - they were having an ‘affair’. Her ‘love’ was for another man - who presumably she went on to marry(?)
But it would appear the ‘contrived’ & ‘convoluted ‘ story came from the Greave sisters and Bamber NOT Julie Mugford
Did you know about any of this Aunt Agatha and is this why Bamber chose to smear you?
You stated on the blue forum here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358356.html#msg358356
“I've said this so many times on here.....I remember the early days - before the revelations.
I'm certain he had absolutely no idea of what exactly happened that night.
The lies we had been fed by the police did not make sense.....nothing fitted into place.
Together we went over and over the same things, hoping that one of us could (as there was only two of us then), might pick up on something we'd overlooked previously.
I was there when the new revelations came about also - he would phone me upon reading the new evidence .... We would then try to piece that new information together and then he would find further information and again we would try to form anther picture of what happened.
That picture changed many times as more information was being revealed.
What’s the truth Aunt Agatha?
The basis of my theory comes from conversations with Jeremy, casual chats, memories he's had etc. Listening to how his family raised him etc.... We just chatted and chatted and chatted... About everything and had some great laughs to. It was not all case study, far from it.
Tell us about those ‘early days’ before the picture was ‘changed’
Early days compared to everyone else. I knew him in 1990.
What was really going on?
What exactly did Bamber tell you 31 years ago Aunt Agatha?
One has to connect the dots and see for oneself who was connected to who, what accusations have been made against them and take it from there.
See how far you get before you see another cover up. It's a pattern.... Its been played for decades and prominent people are bought as a result. Look at the decision then made by these prominent people...ask yourself if that goes against the grain from how they normally reacted etc.
The rabbit hole runs very deep.
I still however, cannot finger one person.
Will Mindhouse TV be telling this ‘fresh’ story?
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JB had a different girlfriend pre and post murders neither of which had anything adverse to say about JB
Who do you now consider Bamber’s ‘post murders’ girlfriend to be Holly Goodhead?
And did you make contact with Mindhouse TV similarly to how you did with Kerry Daines? http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6891.msg295342#msg295342
’He scrawled 'Jill Dando' on my fence:" Chilling details of stalker's behaviour revealed by TV criminal psychologist he targeted’
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kerry-danes-stalker-jill-dando-11044752
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She needs to have an in-depth head to head with Pat Brown, who will no doubt put her on the right track.
More from Pat Brown on Bamber https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cuayvFHGHig&feature=youtu.be
About halfway through she mentions having been contacted by some ‘gentleman’ 🙄
‘30,000 new pieces of information’ @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
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What executioner, child killer and sexual predator Bamber did to Julie Mugford was cruel
JM wasn’t furious she actually stated she was annoyed (top of page 29 of her WS)
“I was annoyed with him about the call as he had told me he had asked out another women. The phone then rang again and it was Virginia. I walked out of the room and into the bedroom as I was so angry. I picked a Chinese box of Jeremy and threw it against a mirror which smashed. When that broke he came into the room with the phone, still on it to Virginia and then put it down.
He asked me why I did it and I said it was a cruel thing to do to ask out another women whilst I was there
He became very cross and I slapped his face.
He then got hold of my right arm and twisted it up my back, pushed me onto the bed and then he raised his arm as if to hit me
The fact Virginia Greaves appears to have thought it wasn’t - says much about her
Virginia Greaves was a women who was cheating on her fiancé - who she was apparently due to marry in the very near future
Virginia Greaves then seemingly got her sister Angela to pretend she was her so her fiancé didn’t find out she’d cheated on him *&^^&
Were the jury in Bamber’s trial ever privy to these facts?
Were the jury ever told Virginia Greave’s was Bambers ‘mistress’ at the time Julie was beginning to see through him?
It appears to me Virginia Greaves lied to the Court by claiming she was Bambers ‘ex girlfriend’
I get a sense Mindhouse TV will be exposing this in their forthcoming 4 part series
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Virginia Greaves was a women who was cheating on her fiancé - who she was apparently due to marry in the very near future
Virginia Greaves then seemingly got her sister Angela to pretend she was her so her fiancé didn’t find out she’d cheated on him *&^^&
Were the jury in Bamber’s trial ever privy to these facts?
Were the jury ever told Virginia Greave’s was Bambers ‘mistress’ at the time Julie was beginning to see through him?
It appears to me Virginia Greaves lied to the Court by claiming she was Bambers ‘ex girlfriend’
I get a sense Mindhouse TV will be exposing this in their forthcoming 4 part series
Anji (Angela) Greaves admitted to carrying out fraud
If she was paid by the Sun newspaper for her story then it shows ‘intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain’
And by Virginia Greaves telling the jury at Bamber’s murder trial she was his ‘ex girlfriend’ - instead of telling them she was his ‘mistress’ and having an ‘affair’ with him at the time Bamber received her telephone call - after which Bamber proceeded to become ‘very angry’ with Julie ‘and twisted her arm up behind her back’ - then she lied
Virginia Greaves lies were exposed by her sister Angela, who also lied it seems for personal gain
The Greave sisters lies are finally out after all these years thanks to Brett Collins who I suspect will again repeat these lies (Of Virginia and Angela Greaves) in the forthcoming Mindhouse TV’s 4 part series
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A leaked quote from Mindhouse TV (Tyla.com)
Renowned documentarian Louis Theroux will soon be launching a gripping new murder series, but warns that it could "divide people"
“We've tried to show this is really complicated, and there are reasons why it's stayed in the public eye."
.
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Theroux introduces his latest documentary...
https://news.sky.com/story/louis-theroux-examines-jeremy-bamber-murders-and-reveals-why-legit-people-believe-five-time-killer-is-innocent-12406985 (https://news.sky.com/story/louis-theroux-examines-jeremy-bamber-murders-and-reveals-why-legit-people-believe-five-time-killer-is-innocent-12406985)
Nothing new here, and I doubt very much detail, if any, on Bamber's numerous bits on the side will be included. It'll cover exactly the same ground superficially as many other "investigative" programmes have done in the past with the same unresolved result, i.e. letting viewers decide which side of the fence they're on, when it's patently obvious to those who've spent time analysing this case, that Sheila Caffell was in no way responsible for the murders. The CCRC need to put this ridiculous farce to bed once and for all with Bamber Co. Ltd's latest, and hopefully last gratuitous submission. One thing's for sure... gimcrack cardboard and plasticine models will feature heavily, but Pat Brown won't be in it.
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Theroux introduces his latest documentary...
https://news.sky.com/story/louis-theroux-examines-jeremy-bamber-murders-and-reveals-why-legit-people-believe-five-time-killer-is-innocent-12406985 (https://news.sky.com/story/louis-theroux-examines-jeremy-bamber-murders-and-reveals-why-legit-people-believe-five-time-killer-is-innocent-12406985)
Nothing new here, and I doubt very much detail, if any, on Bamber's numerous bits on the side will be included. It'll cover exactly the same ground superficially as many other "investigative" programmes have done in the past with the same unresolved result, i.e. letting viewers decide which side of the fence they're on, when it's patently obvious to those who've spent time analysing this case, that Sheila Caffell was in no way responsible for the murders. The CCRC need to put this ridiculous farce to bed once and for all with Bamber Co. Ltd's latest, and hopefully last gratuitous submission. One thing's for sure... gimcrack cardboard and plasticine models will feature heavily, but Pat Brown won't be in it.
Yep looks like more bandwagon jumping 🙄
Anyone using the words ‘legit’ and “Mark Williams Thomas’ in the same conversation have yet to seemingly recognise the mans a fraud
“Because of the nature of the case, we're not in the realm of absolute certainty.”
@)(++(*
Lottie Gammon sounds like she’s years behind and has yet to get caught up 🙄 but the series will be showcasing her directorial skills 🙄
Louis Theroux said during his interview with Dawn Porter he’d enjoyed the TV show ‘Making a Murderer’
’Louis Theroux on Journalism in the Era of Fake News and Populism | Edinburgh TV Festival 2019’
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NS-Iv-FCEw
It was fairly inevitable this forthcoming doc would be more of the same 🙄 keeping it going round and round nonsense
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So did Anji (Angela) Greaves fake the Sun news story - is that what Brett Collins means?
Was it all a Con and if so who’s idea was it?
Para 113
‘On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila Caffell. Again Miss Mugford raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation the appellant received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Miss Mugford heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped the appellant. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. Four days later, she went to the police
Virginia Greaves wouldn’t have been Bamber’s ‘ex girlfriend’ at the time she’d have been his current girlfriend or ‘mistress’ because she was engaged and due to marry someone else
So Anji was ‘posing’ as Bamber’s girlfriend because Virginia was getting married and wouldn’t have wanted her picture all over the newspapers but it was actually Virginia all along ?
So Anji conned The Sun newspaper ? She wasn’t a former or current girlfriend or a mistress ?
And Bamber didn’t look ‘her up to satisfy his desire for older women’
This was manufactured nonsense alongside the misogynistic nonsense Julie Mugford was ‘a scorned women’ 🙄
‘But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also led to his downfall.
For it aroused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend Julie Mugford.
*&^^&
Did Bamber tell you about this ⬆️ Aunt Agatha and tell you to keep it a secret - between you and him?
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Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Jeremy Bamber Campaign Team Blog - Mindhouse production is not based on evidence! https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com
12:50 pm · 16 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
They contacted me, but obviously my knowledge of this case was not a match for their agenda! So desperately sad that they were not interested in THE TRUTH Crying facePouting face #shameonthem
12:53 pm · 16 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1438470457515200521
@)(++(*
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
How lovely to meet up with Yvonne Hartley
@Bambertweets
after so much time, it was great catching up on the Jeremy Bamber campaign. I’m so looking forward to being interviewed for the podcasts very soon Smiling face with 3 hearts
Image
9:36 am · 18 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1439146211131498496
@)(++(*
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Theroux introduces his latest documentary...
https://news.sky.com/story/louis-theroux-examines-jeremy-bamber-murders-and-reveals-why-legit-people-believe-five-time-killer-is-innocent-12406985 (https://news.sky.com/story/louis-theroux-examines-jeremy-bamber-murders-and-reveals-why-legit-people-believe-five-time-killer-is-innocent-12406985)
Nothing new here, and I doubt very much detail, if any, on Bamber's numerous bits on the side will be included. It'll cover exactly the same ground superficially as many other "investigative" programmes have done in the past with the same unresolved result, i.e. letting viewers decide which side of the fence they're on, when it's patently obvious to those who've spent time analysing this case, that Sheila Caffell was in no way responsible for the murders. The CCRC need to put this ridiculous farce to bed once and for all with Bamber Co. Ltd's latest, and hopefully last gratuitous submission. One thing's for sure... gimcrack cardboard and plasticine models will feature heavily, but Pat Brown won't be in it.
It's not surprising that a white, middle class, middle aged, privately educated man seems happy for people to believe that Bamber may be innocent. I think there's a bit of (not so)unconscious bias going on.
I thought that Theroux was going to have nothing to do with this doc. I'm a bit disappointed that he seems to have had quite a bit of influence in its content. I didn't think he'd be doing all the promotional stuff.
He's too much of a wind up merchant to do this sort of thing. It's okay to mildly mock Paul Daniels, or a bunch of swingers in America, but that childish, cantankerous attitude should be off limits for a doc of this nature.
He has talked about his inappropriate mocking style in the past, and I thought that was why he created this alternative way of making documentaries. To keep himself out of the loop.
So far he comes across as someone trying to wind up people who think Bamber is innocent, as well as wind up people who think he's guilty. If that's true, then he's trivialising the whole thing.
I just don't see why it's such a big thing that Bamber has been protesting his innocence for 35 years. It neither makes him innocent or guilty. It's a completely neutral thing in terms of evidence. It's meaningless.
But Louis Theroux seems to think it's important, like it makes him more innocent somehow. It doesn't.
Bamber hasn't just been protesting his innocence, he has also just as aggressively protested his sisters guilt.
He has spent 35 years protesting that Sheila is guilty. Hasn't anyone noticed that?
Who are the legit people who think Bamber is innocent? That Mark Williams Thomas bloke just seems to take the most controversial viewpoint, without providing any actual evidence. He does that for all his cases. Just because you get on the telly, it doesn't make you 'legit'.
We know Peter Sutherst is in it saying that he thinks he's not guilty. But we know that his evidence has been completely discredited and he was woefully unqualified to asses the photographs. Will that come out in the doc?
I think overall it will portray Bamber as more guilty than innocent, it has no option but to do that. But I am now thinking it will leave the door open wide enough to allow newbies to the case to say or think he's innocent.
-
It's not surprising that a white, middle class, middle aged, privately educated man seems happy for people to believe that Bamber may be innocent. I think there's a bit of (not so)unconscious bias going on.
I thought that Theroux was going to have nothing to do with this doc. I'm a bit disappointed that he seems to have had quite a bit of influence in its content. I didn't think he'd be doing all the promotional stuff.
He's too much of a wind up merchant to do this sort of thing. It's okay to mildly mock Paul Daniels, or a bunch of swingers in America, but that childish, cantankerous attitude should be off limits for a doc of this nature.
He has talked about his inappropriate mocking style in the past, and I thought that was why he created this alternative way of making documentaries. To keep himself out of the loop.
So far he comes across as someone trying to wind up people who think Bamber is innocent, as well as wind up people who think he's guilty. If that's true, then he's trivialising the whole thing.
I just don't see why it's such a big thing that Bamber has been protesting his innocence for 35 years. It neither makes him innocent or guilty. It's a completely neutral thing in terms of evidence. It's meaningless.
But Louis Theroux seems to think it's important, like it makes him more innocent somehow. It doesn't.
Bamber hasn't just been protesting his innocence, he has also just as aggressively protested his sisters guilt.
He has spent 35 years protesting that Sheila is guilty. Hasn't anyone noticed that?
Who are the legit people who think Bamber is innocent? That Mark Williams Thomas bloke just seems to take the most controversial viewpoint, without providing any actual evidence. He does that for all his cases. Just because you get on the telly, it doesn't make you 'legit'.
We know Peter Sutherst is in it saying that he thinks he's not guilty. But we know that his evidence has been completely discredited and he was woefully unqualified to asses the photographs. Will that come out in the doc?
I think overall it will portray Bamber as more guilty than innocent, it has no option but to do that. But I am now thinking it will leave the door open wide enough to allow newbies to the case to say or think he's innocent.
Louis Theroux
“Basically it’s a highly charged subject, and it’s a deeply emotional subject, and there are people who are passionately committed on both sides. And so, I’m sure there will be [a backlash]. (Radiotimes)
Does anyone know what Louis Theroux and Mindhouse TV have set in place in terms of support for this ?
-
Louis Thearoux talking to Cydney Yeates for Metro
‘Whichever version you believe, there are parts that are quite hard to explain, rather mysterious details, so all of those mean that it presents an opportunity to tell an extremely powerful piece of television, a story that will connect with people.’
Director Lottie Gammon, who collaborated with Louis on the series, revealed they had originally planned to dissect the story in three episodes, however, a fourth was added to further provide an in-depth look at the case.
‘We’ve shown that it is really complicated and there are reasons it has stayed in the public eye,’ Gammon said. ‘It is quite novellistic in the way we’ve approached it.
We’ve got a lot of people who are speaking for the first time who haven’t spoken before and lots of first person witnesses from what happened across the board, from friends of Jeremy Bamber, friends of Sheila, police from the trial up to present day.’
https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/18/louis-theroux-do-i-work-in-tv-or-am-i-a-journalist-who-got-lucky-15276512/amp/?ito=article.mweb.share.floaty.twitter&__twitter_impression=true
What parts are hard to explain? ‘Rather mysterious details’ ? Only if they choose to make them ‘mysterious’ 🙄
‘Friends of Jeremy Bamber’?
What Charles Marsden, Virginia and Anji Greaves?
Andrew Hunter? 🙄
Who helped extradite a ‘key member of an IRA bomb-making factory in south London’ from Zimbabwe who ‘was widely described as one of the terrorists' "top fixers"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-republican-bomb-team-s-fixer-freed-on-extradition-technicality-1068755.html
Poppy Ann Miller?
https://poppyannmiller.blogspot.com/2012/
Aunt Agatha? ⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11464.msg588683#msg588683
Trudi Benjamin?
Who appears to have gone very quiet?
Convicted/exonerated killer Michael O’Brien ?
-
And then I did a search for 'Mindhouse' and 'Bamber' and found a tweet from April from the JB Campaign team....and they sound really spooked by this doc. They are not happy. They are not happy one bit!
https://twitter.com/FreeBamberNow/status/1388172207180898305/photo/1
The tweet they released was a paranoid and hypocrisy filled statement denouncing the whole Mindhouse project. They complain that Mindhouse have obtained crime scene photos of the bodies of the deceased, which they've used 'unethically’ in the doc.
They need to explain what they mean by this
They didn’t see this ⬇️ as an issue
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11464.msg588683#msg588683
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‘Friends of Jeremy Bamber’?
Ex-burglar and wasteful abuser of inverted commas, Mike Teskowski - Aaaarrrgggh!... Adam Ant and other effete '80s New Romantics... a giggling gaggle of out-of-work TV actresses... then there's Yvonne, as recommended by one supporter to Pat Brown, ("No idea who she is!" - Pat exclaimed puzzlingly).
-
Trudi Benjamin?
Who appears to have gone very quiet?
Bamber's bestie has gone AWOL. Her birthday bake-off, extremely-belated graveside eulogy and other sycophantic videos deleted from YouTube, never to surface again, were always good for a laugh.
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Bamber's bestie has gone AWOL. Her birthday bake-off, extremely-belated graveside eulogy and other sycophantic videos deleted from YouTube, never to surface again, were always good for a laugh.
Not deleted from the DailyMail website ⬇️
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html
Will she also be on the TV doc?
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Not deleted from the DailyMail website ⬇️
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472521/Mass-murder-Jeremy-Bamber-sends-supporter-read-bizarre-rant-grave-parents-killed-blaming-sister-murdered-mass-killing.html)
Will she also be on the TV doc?
Might just about get a mention, along with other members of the barmy army.
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Might just about get a mention, along with other members of the barmy army.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn Michael Naughton will be involved 🙄
https://www.thejusticegap.com/does-jeremy-bamber-have-a-human-right-to-be-released-from-prison-with-immediate-effect/
’Welcome to the personal website of Dr Michael Naughton who is well known for his research and writings on the ‘errors’ and/or outright failings of all aspects of the criminal justice system when evaluated through the perspectives of miscarriages of justice and the wrongful conviction and/or imprisonment of factually innocent victims. http://michaeljnaughton.com/
‘CCRC: Reform or Replace? is an Empowering the Innocent (ETI) campaign targeted at the urgent reform of the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) or for it to be replaced with a new body that is fit for the purpose of assisting innocent victims to overturn their wrongful convictions. http://michaeljnaughton.com/?page_id=3652
Matthew Stanbury is another one 🙄
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Might just about get a mention
She might 🙄
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCkUEC3wHMY
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Notice how none of Bamber’s supporters want to address the Virginia and Anji Greaves fraud nor the date rape of the girl from the Chequers public house
At around 56.00 in the BBC Wales doc re ‘The Clydach murders’ Wyre Davies states,
‘Simon McKay is a barrister and a leading expert on civil liberties and human rights. He’s concerned about the use of PII which is more commonly used in cases of national security
PII is also used in rape and sexual offence cases
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‘It is a version of events that police initially believed, and Theroux says there are "legit" people who think Bamber is serving a whole-life prison term for a crime he didn't carry out.
"Across the board you'll find people who believe there were serious problems with the case, in terms of how it was investigated and how it was prosecuted," he tells Sky News.
"There are things that are quite hard to explain on both sides.
"There was no forensic evidence of his presence at the farm, which is kind of extraordinary."
Theroux says former detective Mark Williams-Thomas - who helped expose Savile's sexual abuse - is one of those who believes Bamber "didn't do it".
He explains: "There's a lot that's positive about people attempting to find cases of historic crime in which there may have been an error.
"A lot of them are legit people. There are a lot of prominent journalists who would say they would feel Bamber is innocent.
https://www.sunshineradio.co.uk/news/showbiz-news/louis-theroux-examines-jeremy-bamber-murders-and8211-and-reveals-why-legit-people-believe-five-time-killer-is-innocent/
Who - Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone? 🙄
Bob Woffinden didn’t https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387438/I-wrong-Jeremy-Bamber-says-crime-writer.html
Mark Newby
As time goes on in this case, we hope to be able to share parts of the evidence which now supports the fact that every part of the reported case appears to be untrue,
-
"A lot of them are legit people. There are a lot of prominent journalists who would say they would feel Bamber is innocent.
Aawww... Comments are turned off. What a pity... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20J-xZrhArs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20J-xZrhArs)
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Aawww... Comments are turned off. What a pity... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20J-xZrhArs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20J-xZrhArs)
Being as Eric Allison is a ‘great friend’ of executioner, child killer and sexual predator Bamber’s it’s possible he’ll be appearing in the forthcoming doc - He’s also a ‘legit person’ working for Guardian news
‘
We’ve got a lot of people who are speaking for the first time who haven’t spoken before’
https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/18/louis-theroux-do-i-work-in-tv-or-am-i-a-journalist-who-got-lucky-15276512/amp/?ito=article.mweb.share.floaty.twitter&__twitter_impression=true
Was Louis Theroux referring to someone like Poppy Ann Miller?
Mindhouse TV would surely have seen her blogs and tweets and other news articles? https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/335518240980108979/
Who of his ‘friends’ haven’t spoken before?
I suspect this statement is a lie
-
Being as Eric Allison is a ‘great friend’ of executioner, child killer and sexual predator Bamber’s it’s possible he’ll be appearing in the forthcoming doc - He’s also a ‘legit person’ working for Guardian news
Why would anyone believe the deluded opinions of a former lag?...
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/ex-con-lands-job-as-guardians-prison-reporter/ (https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/ex-con-lands-job-as-guardians-prison-reporter/)
-
Who of his ‘friends’ hasn’t spoken before?
I suspect this statement is a lie
Only a week to go to find out. Is this four-parter being shown at one go or staggered over several days/weeks?
-
Ex-burglar and wasteful abuser of inverted commas, Mike Teskowski - Aaaarrrgggh!... Adam Ant and other effete '80s New Romantics... a giggling gaggle of out-of-work TV actresses... then there's Yvonne, as recommended by one supporter to Pat Brown, ("No idea who she is!" - Pat exclaimed puzzlingly).
I missed the reference to Yvonne - will have another listen later 8((()*/
I’ve asked Helen Wingrave http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg665659#msg665659 on Twitter about Virginia and Anji Greaves but she’s not answered me yet
-
I missed the reference to Yvonne - will have another listen later 8((()*/
https://youtu.be/drfIypw4wqM?t=5714 (https://youtu.be/drfIypw4wqM?t=5714)
-
Bamber's bestie has gone AWOL. Her birthday bake-off, extremely-belated graveside eulogy and other sycophantic videos deleted from YouTube, never to surface again, were always good for a laugh.
So where’s Trudi ?
-
https://youtu.be/drfIypw4wqM?t=5714 (https://youtu.be/drfIypw4wqM?t=5714)
@)(++(*
Pat did a good job on Jill Dando’s murder ➡️ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrXccaA1b8
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So where’s Trudi ?
Resigned because other team members weren't happy about the direction their campaign was heading maybe, or as a newly-qualified law grad. to make oodles of dosh elsewhere.
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Resigned because other team members weren't happy about the direction their campaign was heading maybe, or as a newly-qualified law grad. to make oodles of dosh elsewhere.
I mean in terms of the forthcoming docu series
James Whale gave her a fairly hard time in relation to her support of Bamber - she was adamant he’s a ‘victim’
Does anyone know if she was approached by Mindhouse TV or if she’s approached them?
‘On the 15th of July 2015 BBC Radio Essex featured Trudi Benjamin from the Official Campaign discussing the Bamber-Bake Off https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/james-whale-debate
Trudi Benjamin is a ‘legit’ person
Louis Theroux
A lot of them are legit people
doesn’t mean ALL of them are ‘legit’
Trudi appeared ‘legit’ to me
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I asked Emma why Anji Greaves ‘posed’ as Bamber’s girlfriend for the Sun newspaper back in Oct 1985 and asked her who’s idea the fake news story was - her response ⬇️
Emma Pixie Alabaster
@emmasb42
Replying to
@HiddenInjustice
@BamberHim
and
@TheSun
What a load of rubbish! That doesn't give any answers, just some deluded woman ( in my opinion) who wants to get in the papers.
10:05 AM · Sep 19, 2021·Twitter for Android
I also asked Emma if she’d ever met Bamber - her reply
Emma Pixie Alabaster
@emmasb42
Replying to
@HiddenInjustice
@BamberHim
and
@TheSun
No, I haven't met him. I'm disabled and struggle to get very far. I've written to him and had some lovely replies. I also arranged a candlelight vigil for his family, Sheila and her victims. He was so appreciative. He's such a lovely thoughtful man.
10:57 AM · Sep 19, 2021·Twitter for Android
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Only a week to go to find out. Is this four-parter being shown at one go or staggered over several days/weeks?
No idea - don’t have sky either
-
Ex-burglar and wasteful abuser of inverted commas, Mike Teskowski - Aaaarrrgggh!... Adam Ant and other effete '80s New Romantics... a giggling gaggle of out-of-work TV actresses... then there's Yvonne, as recommended by one supporter to Pat Brown, ("No idea who she is!" - Pat exclaimed puzzlingly).
I missed the reference to Yvonne - will have another listen later 8((()*/
https://youtu.be/drfIypw4wqM?t=5714 (https://youtu.be/drfIypw4wqM?t=5714)
Pat will be able to listen to Michelle Diskin Bates (Sister of convicted/exonerated - killer of Jill Dando - Barry George) and Yvonne Hartley’s podcasts
⬇️
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
How lovely to meet up with Yvonne Hartley
@Bambertweets
after so much time, it was great catching up on the Jeremy Bamber campaign. I’m so looking forward to being interviewed for the podcasts very soon Smiling face with 3 hearts
Image
9:36 am · 18 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1439146211131498496
@)(++(*
-
Claire McGourlay or Louise Hewitt could have been approached by Mindhouse TV given their work ?
‘Dr Louise Hewitt (Innocence Project London) Professor Claire McGourlay (Manchester Innocence Project) and Marcus Gatto and Dr Edward Matthews (Irish Innocence Project)will discuss how to conduct an innocence investigation and the process of investigating a claim of innocence. They will be joined by a speaker from the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC).
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/investigating-claims-of-innocence-cle-just-not-as-you-know-it-tickets-163975728819
Re ‘ Post-conviction work’ - Louise apparently ‘leant from the best’ (sic’
Dr Louise Hewitt
@LouHew1179
Replying to
@OwenRichb
I leant from the best including yourself,
@CMcgourlay
@CU_Innocence
(Julie, Dennis and Holly,
@CairnsJA
@JustinoBrooks
to mention but a few Red heart
9:19 PM · Aug 9, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/LouHew1179/status/1424827667283578890
She’s referring to Julie Price, Dennis Eady and Holly Greenwood
Louise’s latest blog https://www.advance-he.ac.uk/news-and-views/youve-come-long-way-baby-four-kids-phd-and-2021-ntf
Dennis Eady - 7th Feb 2017
“The Jeremy Bamber case is perhaps the mother and father of illustrations of this resistance to disclosure (see www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk). After more than 30 years, the preferred option is to leave a potentially innocent man on a full life sentence rather than simply disclose material that could potentially exonerate him.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/disclosures-catch-22/
Dennis Eady could very well be one of those people referred to by Louis Theroux as ‘legit’ and he may have chosen to take part in the forthcoming sky TV series - he still appears very much involved with Bambers CT
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Who are the legit people who think Bamber is innocent? That Mark Williams Thomas bloke just seems to take the most controversial viewpoint, without providing any actual evidence. He does that for all his cases. Just because you get on the telly, it doesn't make you 'legit'.
Do you think Louis Theroux might know this?
I don’t suppose in reality Louis Theroux and Mark Williams Thomas are ‘friends’ do you?
https://mobile.twitter.com/mwilliamsthomas/status/934686425680941056
Louis Theroux
I was sort of relieved when I went and watched it again, within the space of weeks after Mark Williams-Thomas’s programme came out. And it’s not the cuddly portrait of an eccentric
But then as much as I’d like to think that I got Jimmy Savile right, I didn’t imagine him to be capable of those crimes,
And what I’ve had to get my head around is the fact that I grew to like him. I kept friendly relations with him for a few years after making the programme
I’ve had to revisit that and think about that. Who was he? How much of the person that I thought I knew was real? And you have to re-evaluate and unpick a lot of memories and think about that. I mean, I knew I never quite got his number. I knew there was an aspect of his life to do with his sexual interests that remained opaque to me
https://www.nme.com/news/tv/louis-theroux-on-jimmy-savile-i-knew-i-never-quite-866525
If anyone’s done a ‘deep dive’ into the allegations of Jimmy Savile in relation to the people who took part in Mark Williams Thomas’s doc - they’ve all since been exposed as liars and discredited
http://rabbitaway.blogspot.com/
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.com/
Deceit by Spirit of Savile
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.com/2016/09/deceit.html
Rabbit Away has ‘studied the Savile case from the get-go’
-
Louis Theroux
“Basically it’s a highly charged subject, and it’s a deeply emotional subject, and there are people who are passionately committed on both sides. And so, I’m sure there will be [a backlash]. (Radiotimes)
There may not be a ‘backlash’
-
Notice how none of Bamber’s supporters want to address the Virginia and Anji Greaves fraud nor the date rape of the girl from the Chequers public house
At around 56.00 in the BBC Wales doc re ‘The Clydach murders’ Wyre Davies states,
‘Simon McKay is a barrister and a leading expert on civil liberties and human rights. He’s concerned about the use of PII which is more commonly used in cases of national security
PII is also used in rape and sexual offence cases
Bamber was adamant to Colin Caffell he didn’t rape Julie ‘I DIDN'T RAPE JULIE’ (16th August 1988) http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11456.msg588414#msg588414
I don’t believe him
Especially given the girl from the Chequers PH’s disclosures - what does her witness statement say exactly & how many statements did she make and when ?
There could well be other similar allegations sitting on Bamber’s file
And the CCRC could be well aware of this too
-
Bamber was adamant to Colin Caffell he didn’t rape Julie ‘I DIDN'T RAPE JULIE’ (16th August 1988) http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11456.msg588414#msg588414
I don’t believe him
Did you believe him Aunt Agatha ?
Didn’t you say you met Bamber in 1990?
Was Bamber still ‘raging’ about this back then?
(He sent another unforgivable letter to Colin Caffell back in 1989 -dated 2nd Feb)
Although you didn’t appear to have wanted to accept the fact the girl from the Chequers PH may well have been drug/date raped by Bamber and carried upstairs and put in bed besides Charles Marsden - or maybe she’d passed out from having been plied with too much alcohol?
‘feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’
Did Bamber ever give you any hints about this Aunt Agatha?
And did he ever talk about his friend Charles Marsden ?
-
Who are the legit people who think Bamber is innocent? That Mark Williams Thomas bloke just seems to take the most controversial viewpoint, without providing any actual evidence. He does that for all his cases. Just because you get on the telly, it doesn't make you 'legit'.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing Mark Williams Thomas on the Mindhouse TV production
Too many people now see through him
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6033123/Documentary-maker-offered-sell-names-DJ-Jonathan-Kings-child-sex-abuse-victims.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6350331/Self-promoting-TV-detective-obsessed-celebrity-sex-abusers-helped-police-ruin-lives.html
Maybe Louis Theroux felt Mark Williams Thomas deserved a mention?
-
There could well be other similar allegations sitting on Bamber’s file
And the CCRC could be well aware of this too
Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021 on mass murderer and child killer Jeremy Bamber
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents
Excerpt taken from above speech by David James Smith
‘About a third of cases in the criminal justice system are sexual offences and that reflects – or did in my time – the workload of the Commission. About a third of applications come from convicted sex offenders. Increasingly, they are convictions arising from historic allegations made later in life. I used to find these the most troubling category of case to review. There were often only two people there when it happened. Very often there was little or no corroborating evidence, except maybe some circumstantial detail about the lives of those involved. The cases often seemed to turn on who had come across most credibly, in court, in the witness box. Their accounts were the evidence, but they were largely unsupported, so who did juries believe, and why.
It is a category of crime – especially when the victims are children – that we find morally and criminally repugnant, as a society. Therefore, it is often difficult for perpetrators to accept or admit. I think it likely that the majority of CCRC applications came from men in denial about their previous crimes. Remember it costs nothing to apply. It might help you to survive in prison, or in your own head, to say, look, I never did this, and here, to prove it, is my application to the CCRC.
BUT – as always the BUT – every new application has to be treated on its merits and approached fairly. It was common in the cases I saw for applicants to claim the complainant had made up the allegations. Could that be true and if so how could it be evidenced? You could look at the circumstances of the case for help, but you could also look at the history of the complainant too and that meant, in appropriate cases, accessing their public records. That work should have been done before trial, but it might not have been thorough, or new material might have emerged. Those inquiries certainly led to some important referrals during my time. Cases where complainants had made previous or subsequent allegations against others, perhaps, that appeared to be untrue or inconsistent, or had committed or been involved in other acts of dishonesty.
More from David James Smith from February 2017
‘I know all about lurking doubt, but I stand with those who question how such a test could be properly applied. It may be significant that in nearly 20 years the CCRC has never used, as a standalone ground of referral, the provision at Section 13(2) of the 1995 Act which allows it to refer a case to the Court of Appeal in the absence of something tangibly new where exceptional circumstances justify making the referral.
If convicted criminal A lobbies louder and harder than convicted criminal B, gathers support behind him, or her, creates a noisier public clamour in support of his self-professed innocence, does that mean the doubt in A’s case lurks greater? How can you measure doubt? What does it look like?
What it can usefully do, I think, is drive you on to try and find some evidential basis for the claim. This is particularly so in the large number of historical sexual abuse cases where corroborating evidence can be virtually non-existent and it boils down to who seems more plausible in their testimony. They are often troubling cases not easily resolved, each one of them requires careful thought and analysis.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/proof-magazine-truth-justice-like-truth-journalism-indivisible/
David James Smith appears to have recalled what he said in his article on Bamber incorrectly
He stated,
‘I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.
He didn’t ⬇️
“Reader, I have no idea”
(See end of last para here ➡️ http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf)
Will be interesting to see if he’s been approached by Mindhouse TV or vice versa
-
Would a 'legit' journalist lie?
This 2011 article by Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone, has at least ten whopping big lies in it, outlined below.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/feb/10/jeremy-bamber-innocent-of-murder-appeal
These aren't innocent mis-typings, these are deliberate and purposeful lies, designed to mis-inform the public.
And I know you've all seen this all before, but it's always good to remind people how 'legit' journalists from national newspapers have supported Jeremy Bamber by publishing bare faced lies.
And if you are reading this Louis Theroux...be ashamed of yourself if you believe these people rather than the known truth. You should be holding these people up to account. These are not 'legit' journalists, I hope your
people don't quote these people as being 'legit' in your documentary.
The question should be, how are these people allowed to get away with it? They should be sacked.
Lie number 1:
By the time the police entered the house, all five were dead. The gun was found by Sheila's side, fresh blood still oozing from her mouth.
The blood was bone dry, dark in colour and absolutely not fresh.
Even in the notorious faked wet blood images, the blood from her mouth is dark and dry. So Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone are taking an original lie, and exaggerating it even further.
Lie number 2:
A month after the killings, Bamber's cousins found a silencer with flecks of blood on it in a cupboard in the farmhouse .
The cousins found the silencer a couple of days after the murders, not a month.
There were 5 people who witnessed the finding of the silencer, including (non-relative) Basil Cock, who was the solicitor and I believe executor of the estate, who was there to total up the value of items in the house. He was effectively just an employee, therefore no vested interest.
The flecks of blood (often described as a speck of blood), was actually described by the scientist who analysed it, as a flake of blood, it was a quarter of an inch long and for testing purposes, was prised off in one lump, then sliced into 4 sections and each section analysed separately for blood groupings.
There was also human blood visible on the first 5-7 baffles, which was independent of the flake of blood.
Lie number 3:
a call from Bamber's father to the police, saying his daughter had gone "berserk", had not been disclosed to the jury;
There was no call from Nevill Bamber to the police. This comes from a fake narrative that is based on an internal Police form that has nothing to do with receiving a phone call from Jeremy Bambers father.
Lie Number 4:
officers had said they had seen somebody moving inside the house before they entered while Bamber was standing next to them.
Officers never said they saw somebody moving inside the house. One officer did say he saw some movement in a window, when he, another officer and Bamber himself were doing a recce of the house. But it was a trick of the light that could be repeated by moving backwards and forwards. Bamber himself was there, and agreed at the time (and for the next 20 years) that there was no movement.
Lie Number 5
Why did scratch marks on the kitchen mantelpiece that suggested a struggle not exist in the original scene-of- crime photos?
The scratch marks did exist, and one of them is visible in the original photos. But the main area of scratches under the mantelshelf were invisible to the photographer taking the crime scene photos, because the scratches were on the underside of the mantelshelf, facing the floor.
Lie number 6
Photographs taken on the day of the shootings and not disclosed at trial have emerged showing there were no scratch marks, which contradicts the evidence of a struggle – a completely different picture to the one presented to the jury.
Same as lie number 5, one of the scratch marks is clearly visible, but the main area of scratches is facing the floor and invisible to anyone at normal head height.
Lie number 7
Bamber appealed for the first time in 1989 on the grounds that the judge had summed the case up unfairly. He was finally granted a second appeal in 2002
It is always falsely quoted that Bamber has been to the court of appeal twice. He has only been to the court of appeal once, and that was in 2002.
Between 1986-89 Jeremy Bamber applied for leave to appeal and it was rejected twice. There was no 'court of appeal' in 1989.
Application to the court of appeal is a two round process. Round one is the 'Single Judge' round. If the single judge rejects your application, as happened to Jeremy Bamber, you go to the next round which is called the 'Full Court'. The Full Court is 3 judges rather than 1. The Full Court also rejected Jeremy Bambers leave to appeal.
The 'Full Court' is not the 'Court of Appeal'.
Lie number 8.
The silencer was found to contain blood, but it could not be established if it was human or animal
The quarter inch long flake of blood was tested as human not animal (a simple test, and it was clearly stated by the scientists at the time and ever since, that the blood tested as human blood, not animal blood), and it tested positive as Sheila Caffells blood.
All testable blood in the silencer tested positive for human blood.
No animal blood was found inside or outside of the silencer.
Lie number 9
Her Bible was found by her side, open at pages containing Psalms 51-55.
It wasn't Sheila's bible, it was June Bamber's bible. Junes handwriting was on many of the pages, and she was known to make notes of certain passages.
Lie number 10
Photographs also showed a handwritten note sticking up from between the pages of the Bible. The words at the top of the note are "love one another" – the same words were written on a banner on a wall in a room in Jonestown, Guyana, where 909 people died in 1978 in a mass murder-suicide.
The handwritten note does exist, but it is nothing to do with Sheila Caffell. The note was in June Bambers handwriting, and it was a known behaviour of hers to write such notes from the bible on separate pieces of paper.
Shame on the Guardian newspaper for willingly and knowingly publishing this stuff.
-
Did you believe him Aunt Agatha ?
Didn’t you say you met Bamber in 1990?
Was Bamber still ‘raging’ about this back then?
(He sent another unforgivable letter to Colin Caffell back in 1989 -dated 2nd Feb)
Although you didn’t appear to have wanted to accept the fact the girl from the Chequers PH may well have been drug/date raped by Bamber and carried upstairs and put in bed besides Charles Marsden - or maybe she’d passed out from having been plied with too much alcohol?
‘feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’
Did Bamber ever give you any hints about this Aunt Agatha?
And did he ever talk about his friend Charles Marsden ?
Aunt Agatha did you know Anji Greaves lied to the Sun newspaper?
Did Bamber ever talk to you about this, maybe laugh and joke about it?
-
Would a 'legit' journalist lie?
This 2011 article by Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone, has at least ten whopping big lies in it, outlined below.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/feb/10/jeremy-bamber-innocent-of-murder-appeal
These aren't innocent mis-typings, these are deliberate and purposeful lies, designed to mis-inform the public.
And I know you've all seen this all before, but it's always good to remind people how 'legit' journalists from national newspapers have supported Jeremy Bamber by publishing bare faced lies.
And if you are reading this Louis Theroux...be ashamed of yourself if you believe these people rather than the known truth. You should be holding these people up to account. These are not 'legit' journalists, I hope your
people don't quote these people as being 'legit' in your documentary.
The question should be, how are these people allowed to get away with it? They should be sacked.
Lie number 1:
By the time the police entered the house, all five were dead. The gun was found by Sheila's side, fresh blood still oozing from her mouth.
The blood was bone dry, dark in colour and absolutely not fresh.
Even in the notorious faked wet blood images, the blood from her mouth is dark and dry. So Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone are taking an original lie, and exaggerating it even further.
Lie number 2:
A month after the killings, Bamber's cousins found a silencer with flecks of blood on it in a cupboard in the farmhouse .
The cousins found the silencer a couple of days after the murders, not a month.
There were 5 people who witnessed the finding of the silencer, including (non-relative) Basil Cock, who was the solicitor and I believe executor of the estate, who was there to total up the value of items in the house. He was effectively just an employee, therefore no vested interest.
The flecks of blood (often described as a speck of blood), was actually described by the scientist who analysed it, as a flake of blood, it was a quarter of an inch long and for testing purposes, was prised off in one lump, then sliced into 4 sections and each section analysed separately for blood groupings.
There was also human blood visible on the first 5-7 baffles, which was independent of the flake of blood.
Lie number 3:
a call from Bamber's father to the police, saying his daughter had gone "berserk", had not been disclosed to the jury;
There was no call from Nevill Bamber to the police. This comes from a fake narrative that is based on an internal Police form that has nothing to do with receiving a phone call from Jeremy Bambers father.
Lie Number 4:
officers had said they had seen somebody moving inside the house before they entered while Bamber was standing next to them.
Officers never said they saw somebody moving inside the house. One officer did say he saw some movement in a window, when he, another officer and Bamber himself were doing a recce of the house. But it was a trick of the light that could be repeated by moving backwards and forwards. Bamber himself was there, and agreed at the time (and for the next 20 years) that there was no movement.
Lie Number 5
Why did scratch marks on the kitchen mantelpiece that suggested a struggle not exist in the original scene-of- crime photos?
The scratch marks did exist, and one of them is visible in the original photos. But the main area of scratches under the mantelshelf were invisible to the photographer taking the crime scene photos, because the scratches were on the underside of the mantelshelf, facing the floor.
Lie number 6
Photographs taken on the day of the shootings and not disclosed at trial have emerged showing there were no scratch marks, which contradicts the evidence of a struggle – a completely different picture to the one presented to the jury.
Same as lie number 5, one of the scratch marks is clearly visible, but the main area of scratches is facing the floor and invisible to anyone at normal head height.
Lie number 7
Bamber appealed for the first time in 1989 on the grounds that the judge had summed the case up unfairly. He was finally granted a second appeal in 2002
It is always falsely quoted that Bamber has been to the court of appeal twice. He has only been to the court of appeal once, and that was in 2002.
Between 1986-89 Jeremy Bamber applied for leave to appeal and it was rejected twice. There was no 'court of appeal' in 1989.
Application to the court of appeal is a two round process. Round one is the 'Single Judge' round. If the single judge rejects your application, as happened to Jeremy Bamber, you go to the next round which is called the 'Full Court'. The Full Court is 3 judges rather than 1. The Full Court also rejected Jeremy Bambers leave to appeal.
The 'Full Court' is not the 'Court of Appeal'.
Lie number 8.
The silencer was found to contain blood, but it could not be established if it was human or animal
The quarter inch long flake of blood was tested as human not animal (a simple test, and it was clearly stated by the scientists at the time and ever since, that the blood tested as human blood, not animal blood), and it tested positive as Sheila Caffells blood.
All testable blood in the silencer tested positive for human blood.
No animal blood was found inside or outside of the silencer.
Lie number 9
Her Bible was found by her side, open at pages containing Psalms 51-55.
It wasn't Sheila's bible, it was June Bamber's bible. Junes handwriting was on many of the pages, and she was known to make notes of certain passages.
Lie number 10
Photographs also showed a handwritten note sticking up from between the pages of the Bible. The words at the top of the note are "love one another" – the same words were written on a banner on a wall in a room in Jonestown, Guyana, where 909 people died in 1978 in a mass murder-suicide.
The handwritten note does exist, but it is nothing to do with Sheila Caffell. The note was in June Bambers handwriting, and it was a known behaviour of hers to write such notes from the bible on separate pieces of paper.
Shame on the Guardian newspaper for willingly and knowingly publishing this stuff.
Do you think Louis Theroux, Flo Banner and Lottie Gammon & co would make time to carry out their due diligence Colsvile?
-
Does anyone know if Dean Strang and Nancy Strang (Louis Theroux’s 2nd wife) are related?
-
Would a 'legit' journalist lie?
This 2011 article by Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone, has at least ten whopping big lies in it, outlined below.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/feb/10/jeremy-bamber-innocent-of-murder-appeal
These aren't innocent mis-typings, these are deliberate and purposeful lies, designed to mis-inform the public.
And I know you've all seen this all before, but it's always good to remind people how 'legit' journalists from national newspapers have supported Jeremy Bamber by publishing bare faced lies.
And if you are reading this Louis Theroux...be ashamed of yourself if you believe these people rather than the known truth. You should be holding these people up to account. These are not 'legit' journalists, I hope your
people don't quote these people as being 'legit' in your documentary.
The question should be, how are these people allowed to get away with it? They should be sacked.
Lie number 1:
By the time the police entered the house, all five were dead. The gun was found by Sheila's side, fresh blood still oozing from her mouth.
The blood was bone dry, dark in colour and absolutely not fresh.
Even in the notorious faked wet blood images, the blood from her mouth is dark and dry. So Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone are taking an original lie, and exaggerating it even further.
Lie number 2:
A month after the killings, Bamber's cousins found a silencer with flecks of blood on it in a cupboard in the farmhouse .
The cousins found the silencer a couple of days after the murders, not a month.
There were 5 people who witnessed the finding of the silencer, including (non-relative) Basil Cock, who was the solicitor and I believe executor of the estate, who was there to total up the value of items in the house. He was effectively just an employee, therefore no vested interest.
The flecks of blood (often described as a speck of blood), was actually described by the scientist who analysed it, as a flake of blood, it was a quarter of an inch long and for testing purposes, was prised off in one lump, then sliced into 4 sections and each section analysed separately for blood groupings.
There was also human blood visible on the first 5-7 baffles, which was independent of the flake of blood.
Lie number 3:
a call from Bamber's father to the police, saying his daughter had gone "berserk", had not been disclosed to the jury;
There was no call from Nevill Bamber to the police. This comes from a fake narrative that is based on an internal Police form that has nothing to do with receiving a phone call from Jeremy Bambers father.
Lie Number 4:
officers had said they had seen somebody moving inside the house before they entered while Bamber was standing next to them.
Officers never said they saw somebody moving inside the house. One officer did say he saw some movement in a window, when he, another officer and Bamber himself were doing a recce of the house. But it was a trick of the light that could be repeated by moving backwards and forwards. Bamber himself was there, and agreed at the time (and for the next 20 years) that there was no movement.
Lie Number 5
Why did scratch marks on the kitchen mantelpiece that suggested a struggle not exist in the original scene-of- crime photos?
The scratch marks did exist, and one of them is visible in the original photos. But the main area of scratches under the mantelshelf were invisible to the photographer taking the crime scene photos, because the scratches were on the underside of the mantelshelf, facing the floor.
Lie number 6
Photographs taken on the day of the shootings and not disclosed at trial have emerged showing there were no scratch marks, which contradicts the evidence of a struggle – a completely different picture to the one presented to the jury.
Same as lie number 5, one of the scratch marks is clearly visible, but the main area of scratches is facing the floor and invisible to anyone at normal head height.
Lie number 7
Bamber appealed for the first time in 1989 on the grounds that the judge had summed the case up unfairly. He was finally granted a second appeal in 2002
It is always falsely quoted that Bamber has been to the court of appeal twice. He has only been to the court of appeal once, and that was in 2002.
Between 1986-89 Jeremy Bamber applied for leave to appeal and it was rejected twice. There was no 'court of appeal' in 1989.
Application to the court of appeal is a two round process. Round one is the 'Single Judge' round. If the single judge rejects your application, as happened to Jeremy Bamber, you go to the next round which is called the 'Full Court'. The Full Court is 3 judges rather than 1. The Full Court also rejected Jeremy Bambers leave to appeal.
The 'Full Court' is not the 'Court of Appeal'.
Lie number 8.
The silencer was found to contain blood, but it could not be established if it was human or animal
The quarter inch long flake of blood was tested as human not animal (a simple test, and it was clearly stated by the scientists at the time and ever since, that the blood tested as human blood, not animal blood), and it tested positive as Sheila Caffells blood.
All testable blood in the silencer tested positive for human blood.
No animal blood was found inside or outside of the silencer.
Lie number 9
Her Bible was found by her side, open at pages containing Psalms 51-55.
It wasn't Sheila's bible, it was June Bamber's bible. Junes handwriting was on many of the pages, and she was known to make notes of certain passages.
Lie number 10
Photographs also showed a handwritten note sticking up from between the pages of the Bible. The words at the top of the note are "love one another" – the same words were written on a banner on a wall in a room in Jonestown, Guyana, where 909 people died in 1978 in a mass murder-suicide.
The handwritten note does exist, but it is nothing to do with Sheila Caffell. The note was in June Bambers handwriting, and it was a known behaviour of hers to write such notes from the bible on separate pieces of paper.
Shame on the Guardian newspaper for willingly and knowingly publishing this stuff.
Simon Hattenstone was involved in promoting Amanda Knox’s Innocence fraud too 🙄
He’d apparently corresponded with her since 2009
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/08/who-is-amanda-knox-interview
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Do you think Louis Theroux, Flo Banner and Lottie Gammon & co would make time to carry out their due diligence Colsvile?
I don't know the answer to that.
They might carry out due diligence, but that due diligence may not come across in the documentary.
In his promotional stuff he has spoken about 'legit' people thinking he's innocent, but doesn't say anything about the people who say he's guilty. Therefore to the uninitiated it's only 'legit' people who are saying he's innocent.
That's a problem, because of the way propaganda works.
In other words, it's always 'legit' people who say he's innocent, and it's only the faceless, cold institutions (who have got it wrong before), like the Police, who say he's guilty.
We know these journalists are lying, it's easy to out them as liars, and it's down to these documentary makers to say they are lying, and to properly expose those lies.
But will they?
There's also a good chance that Louis Theroux is a regular reader of the Guardian, and may have an emotional attachment to the paper. Do any of the filmmakers have the appetite to hold the Guardian newspaper to account for allowing these articles to be published, and for those videos to be published? I'm not sure.
Bamber will almost certainly come out of this more guilty than innocent, but I think they will give time over to people who say he's innocent without analysing and dismantling what they are saying.
However, Louis Theroux was conned by Jimmy Saville into believing he was innocent of sex abuse crimes. So Louis Theroux does have first hand experience of being manipulated by a charismatic criminal just like others have with Bamber.
So who knows.
-
I don't know the answer to that.
They might carry out due diligence, but that due diligence may not come across in the documentary.
In his promotional stuff he has spoken about 'legit' people thinking he's innocent, but doesn't say anything about the people who say he's guilty. Therefore to the uninitiated it's only 'legit' people who are saying he's innocent.
That's a problem, because of the way propaganda works.
In other words, it's always 'legit' people who say he's innocent, and it's only the faceless, cold institutions (who have got it wrong before), like the Police, who say he's guilty.
We know these journalists are lying, it's easy to out them as liars, and it's down to these documentary makers to say they are lying, and to properly expose those lies.
But will they?
There's also a good chance that Louis Theroux is a regular reader of the Guardian, and may have an emotional attachment to the paper. Do any of the filmmakers have the appetite to hold the Guardian newspaper to account for allowing these articles to be published, and for those videos to be published? I'm not sure.
Bamber will almost certainly come out of this more guilty than innocent, but I think they will give time over to people who say he's innocent without analysing and dismantling what they are saying.
However, Louis Theroux was conned by Jimmy Saville into believing he was innocent of sex abuse crimes. So Louis Theroux does have first hand experience of being manipulated by a charismatic criminal just like others have with Bamber.
So who knows.
Definitely
-
I don't know the answer to that.
They might carry out due diligence, but that due diligence may not come across in the documentary.
In his promotional stuff he has spoken about 'legit' people thinking he's innocent, but doesn't say anything about the people who say he's guilty. Therefore to the uninitiated it's only 'legit' people who are saying he's innocent.
That's a problem, because of the way propaganda works.
In other words, it's always 'legit' people who say he's innocent, and it's only the faceless, cold institutions (who have got it wrong before), like the Police, who say he's guilty.
We know these journalists are lying, it's easy to out them as liars, and it's down to these documentary makers to say they are lying, and to properly expose those lies.
But will they?
There's also a good chance that Louis Theroux is a regular reader of the Guardian, and may have an emotional attachment to the paper. Do any of the filmmakers have the appetite to hold the Guardian newspaper to account for allowing these articles to be published, and for those videos to be published? I'm not sure.
Bamber will almost certainly come out of this more guilty than innocent, but I think they will give time over to people who say he's innocent without analysing and dismantling what they are saying.
However, Louis Theroux was conned by Jimmy Saville into believing he was innocent of sex abuse crimes. So Louis Theroux does have first hand experience of being manipulated by a charismatic criminal just like others have with Bamber.
So who knows.
Exploit them further you mean - knowingly or unknowingly ?
I’m not referring to ‘legit’ 🤑 people like Mark Williams Thomas btw
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Would a 'legit' journalist lie?
This 2011 article by Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone, has at least ten whopping big lies in it, outlined below.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/feb/10/jeremy-bamber-innocent-of-murder-appeal
These aren't innocent mis-typings, these are deliberate and purposeful lies, designed to mis-inform the public.
And I know you've all seen this all before, but it's always good to remind people how 'legit' journalists from national newspapers have supported Jeremy Bamber by publishing bare faced lies.
And if you are reading this Louis Theroux...be ashamed of yourself if you believe these people rather than the known truth. You should be holding these people up to account. These are not 'legit' journalists, I hope your
people don't quote these people as being 'legit' in your documentary.
The question should be, how are these people allowed to get away with it? They should be sacked.
Lie number 1:
By the time the police entered the house, all five were dead. The gun was found by Sheila's side, fresh blood still oozing from her mouth.
The blood was bone dry, dark in colour and absolutely not fresh.
Even in the notorious faked wet blood images, the blood from her mouth is dark and dry. So Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone are taking an original lie, and exaggerating it even further.
This has been gone through on another thread but just how involved were Eric Allison and Simon Hattenstone with convicted fraudster Giovanni di Stefano ?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=938.msg27779#msg27779
More on corrupt ‘lawyer’ Giovanni di Stefano ⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12105.msg653911#msg653911
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‘Louis Theroux has said it is not certain that Jeremy Bamber is guilty of the White House farm murders.
https://www.essexlive.news/whats-on/whats-on-news/jeremy-bamber-white-house-farm-5938492
The above is how Mel King at Essex Live has interpreted Louis Theroux’s/Mindhouse productions PR spiel 🙄
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I don't know the answer to that.
They might carry out due diligence, but that due diligence may not come across in the documentary.
In his promotional stuff he has spoken about 'legit' people thinking he's innocent, but doesn't say anything about the people who say he's guilty. Therefore to the uninitiated it's only 'legit' people who are saying he's innocent.
That's a problem, because of the way propaganda works.
Yes but Mindhouse have only dropped one teaser, there’s bound to be more. There’s 7 more days before it airs.
We’ll be seeing and hearing more before then
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We know these journalists are lying, it's easy to out them as liars, and it's down to these documentary makers to say they are lying, and to properly expose those lies.
But will they?
There's also a good chance that Louis Theroux is a regular reader of the Guardian, and may have an emotional attachment to the paper. Do any of the filmmakers have the appetite to hold the Guardian newspaper to account for allowing these articles to be published, and for those videos to be published? I'm not sure.
Maybe Mindhouse have left the people they interview to point the finger at certain journalists and organisations like the Guardian?
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Exploit them further you mean - knowingly or unknowingly ?
I’m not referring to ‘legit’ 🤑 people like Mark Williams Thomas btw
What I mean is that Theroux will give equal weighting to the possibility that Bamber is innocent and the possibility that Sheila is guilty.
It was always my concern that this doc was going to give equal weighting to these alternative scenarios, therefore muddying the waters, rather than clearing things up.
And he would justify it by saying that that is how you create balance.
But that's not how you create balance. You create balance by looking at and analysing and assessing the evidence from a neutral point of view. Ofcom rules allow broadcasters to take sides.
This quote from Theroux is the problem:
Theroux says: "Whether you think Jeremy Bamber did it or whether you think Sheila did it, both scenarios have anomalies, or at least require one to accept... surprising and in some cases seemingly anomalous details.
"The journey I went on was hearing something and going 'If Jeremy Bamber did it, how did they explain that?' - or 'If Sheila did it, how would they explain that?'"
In the Sheila is innocent scenario there are no anomalies. Where are the anomalies? There is scientific, forensic evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that she didn't do it. There's more evidence today than there was in 1986. You don't have to believe a word Julie Mugford said to see that Sheila is innocent. There are literally no anomalies. There is no contradictory evidence.
All of the other 'smaller' pieces of evidence, like the fight in the kitchen, add credence to the Sheila is innocent scenario because it would be so unlikely that Sheila could have put up such a struggle against her dad and won.
All the evidence supports in a big or small way that Sheila didn't do it.
With the Bamber is guilty scenario, there are also no anomalies. There is no contradictory evidence that throws a spanner in the works.
With the Bamber is guilty scenario, there is missing evidence because his house wasn't searched and he wasn't examined at the time for injuries of markings on his body.
The silencer should have been found by the police, but that's not an anomaly, it's not contradictory evidence. Although it does allow room for Bambers supporters to claim that the blood in the silencer was planted, for which there is no evidence, and planting the blood would also be a very difficult thing to do technically. In fact, almost impossible. Therefore, no contradiction.
When you stick only to the evidence, there are no anomalies.
For Theroux to say what he did means that he doesn't understand this case, and hasn't properly gone through the actual evidence.
Louis Theroux may have an emotional attachment to Bamber because they are both white middle class, privately educated, well spoken, articulate people of a similar age. We know Theroux was fooled by Saville in exactly the same way that some Bamber supporters have been fooled by Bamber. Could it happen again? I believe it's a personality type that allows people to be fooled in this way. So Theroux may be predisposed to sympathise with Bamber, just as he may have been predisposed to sympathise with Saville.
The only way to defend Theroux is that the quote looks like it originated from an informal spoken interview and sometimes a written down excerpt comes across completely differently to the actual spoken interview. The quote therefore may be out of context, and also Theroux could have mis spoken the words, saying something that he didn't really mean, that then gets printed slightly out of context.
I hope that's the case.
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I thought I'd have a look and see when or if that Sky Crime doc on Jeremy Bamber was going to be broadcast. I couldn't find anything on Sky, so I looked at Mindhouse productions website and they have it 'advertised' there.
https://mindhouse.co.uk/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm
What's interesting is that it is now a 4 x 60 minute documentary rather than the 3 x 60 minutes that they were saying back in January.
At 4 hours it sounds like it's going to be a very comprehensive documentary. That should be plenty of time to examine the propaganda and lies spewed out by Bamber and his support group over the years.
And then I did a search for 'Mindhouse' and 'Bamber' and found a tweet from April from the JB Campaign team....and they sound really spooked by this doc. They are not happy. They are not happy one bit!
https://twitter.com/FreeBamberNow/status/1388172207180898305/photo/1
The tweet they released was a paranoid and hypocrisy filled statement denouncing the whole Mindhouse project. They complain that Mindhouse have obtained crime scene photos of the bodies of the deceased, which they've used 'unethically' in the doc.
They conveniently leave out the fact that they themselves, via Bamber and his lawyers, have published numerous dead body images of Sheila and June Bamber, all without legal permission, and without any thought to the dignity and respect of those people depicted in the photographs.
Michael Di Stefano
@DiStefano1410
Looking forward to seeing this, as one of the people who’s seen all the evidence, I do not for a second believe that Jeremy did this, it’s almost impossible if you look at the pathology reports as to the time of death! He’s been well & truly shafted Disappointed face
Louis Theroux examines Jeremy Bamber murders – and reveals why 'legit' people believe five-time...
After appearing on screen with neo-Nazis, violent prisoners, drug addicts and Jimmy Savile, Louis Theroux says he doesn't shy away from "the troubling side of life".
apple.news
9:35 AM · Sep 18, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/DiStefano1410/status/1439146159784742916
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His fraudster dad must have been released and given him ideas and a bundle of faked photos.
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His fraudster dad must have been released and given him ideas and a bundle of faked photos.
Correction: Daddy is still a jailbird unless he coughs up his ill-gotten gains...
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/giovanni-di-stefano-high-court-swift-italy-kent-b954571.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/giovanni-di-stefano-high-court-swift-italy-kent-b954571.html)
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Bamber lied to anyone who would listen
He lied to Charles Marsden about Virginia Greaves being his girlfriend - she was engaged to marry someone else therefore wouldn’t have been moving in with him and Brett Collins
Journalist Roger Wilkes stated in his book ‘Blood Relations’
‘Marsden said that he had visited Jeremy at his cottage the previous Thursday night. Brett Collins had cooked them a chicken dinner and the three had then repaired to the Caribbean Cottage at Burnham for drinks. Jeremy had announced that he and Julie had split up the previous weekend. While he didn't give a specific reason, Marsden had the impression that Julie had disliked Brett Collins. In any case, Jeremy added, he now had a new girlfriend, Virginia Greaves, who used to go out with Mike Deckers of the Frog and Beans. Jeremy also told Charles Marsden that he and Brett were going to sell Bourtree Cottage and move to Sheila's flat in Maida Vale. Virginia would move in too, Jeremy added.
Bamber ‘hoovered’ Virgina as part of his plan to smear Julie - he hadn’t yet finished with her
Roger Wilkes sickeningly stated,
‘The three of them dined at the Caribbean cottage. At the end of the evening, they returned to Goldhanger. Virginia Greaves spent the night in bed with Jeremy. The seduction was pivotal, in that rekindled an affair which had apparently fizzled out years before. At the time it seemed nothing more than the comforting of an affectionate former girlfriend. But it was to so a seed of jealously in the troubled heart of Julie Mugford. 🤮
‘Fizzled out’ now where have we heard that before 🙄
Is this how Virginia Greaves described it to police in her witness statement?
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Is the attached Mindhouse colour pic of Mike Ainsley who appears in the doc?
https://simonwilkinson.photoshelter.com/image/I00005EAyJho0wuc (https://simonwilkinson.photoshelter.com/image/I00005EAyJho0wuc)
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Is the attached Mindhouse colour pic of Mike Ainsley who appears in the doc?
Yep... same broad chin, bushy forelocks and absence of sideburns in both pics, 35 years apart.
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Does anyone know if Anji Greaves received a payment for her story in the Sun newspaper?
Or was a payment not made - like in the case of convicted fraudster Surjit Singh Clair - who represented convicted/exonerated murderer Barry George prior to and following his release from custody
Will be interesting if this is being explored by Mindhouse TV
These facts have been played down by all those people choosing to support Bamber
Anji (Angela) Greaves was clearly behaving deceptively around this time as can be seen by some of the online photographs available - none of them seem clear on who she was in relation to Bamber
What was going on around this time and who’s idea was it to deceive the public?
Brett Collins to Kay Page
‘About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
So did Virginia perjure herself in order for her fiancé to not learn she was cheating on him with Bamber?
Let’s hope Mindhouse have explored this with Brett Collins because ‘nobody actually knows this until now’
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It’s a shame Carol Ann Lee didn’t appear to recognise killer Bamber was triangulating each and every person he came into contact with?
According to Anji Greaves interview following Bamber’s murder trial, reported by Kieron Saunders and Shan Lancaster, he was using another classic abuse tactic referred to as ‘hoovering’, ‘He called on her at her flat in Kensington, West London, two days after his parents were buried.’
Was this when he dropped Virginia, her sister, back in London following the meal they had at the ‘Caribbean Cottage’ alongside Brett Collins or was this another occasion?
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Th CT team have recently claimed Brett Collin’s to be ‘a homosexual’
From approx 6:00 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=159bxYsekQY
Who was the person Bamber was hanging around with who had apparently just got out of prison? Brett Collins?
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His fraudster dad must have been released and given him ideas and a bundle of faked photos.
Giavanni di Stefano appears in the ‘Killing mum and dad’ doc here (Around 33:55) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU
Mike Fielder can also be seen (At around 33:15)
Will Brett Collins finally be coming clean when he appears in the forthcoming doc?
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Is the attached Mindhouse colour pic of Mike Ainsley who appears in the doc?
https://simonwilkinson.photoshelter.com/image/I00005EAyJho0wuc (https://simonwilkinson.photoshelter.com/image/I00005EAyJho0wuc)
Yes I think it is Myster
Makes sense too given he was also a great source for Carol Ann Lee
Mick Ainsley gets a mention here ⬇️ by the CT (Around 4:30) 🙄
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=159bxYsekQY
There was also reference to Bamber being ‘a money hungry sexual predator’
The above statement, ‘money hungry sexual predator’ featured in the ‘1986 Dickinson report/internal police review’
I’ve no idea who from the CT put the above video together but for some reason they’ve (Knowingly or unknowingly?) mistaken another of Bamber’s apparent psychopathic traits ie; promiscuous sexual interest in both males and females
There’s a paper by a Peter Jonason and Severi Luoto called, ‘The dark side of the rainbow: Homosexuals and bisexuals have higher Dark Triad traits than heterosexuals’ some readers may find of interest https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886921004177
I can’t work out from the CT’s video if they are suggesting Bamber has told them he is gay or a ‘homosexual’ or whether they are promoting their own psychological projections?
Referring to Mick Ainsley’s reports of the ‘27th September 1985 & the 7th November 1985’ the narrator of the video states,
‘But Ainsley failed to make any correlation between Jeremy’s association with homosexuals and the shootings’ 🙄
The police investigated the sexual habits and behaviours of killer Simon Hall and found similar patterns of behaviour as they did with Bamber - which Hall denied for many years
The narrator of the video goes on,
‘It appears two dynamics were going on, firstly that accounts of Jeremy’s sexuality were speculative on the part of witness and police officers based upon Jeremy’s friendships and secondly the police and conventional culture linked homosexuality to criminality’
🙄
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What I mean is that Theroux will give equal weighting to the possibility that Bamber is innocent and the possibility that Sheila is guilty.
It was always my concern that this doc was going to give equal weighting to these alternative scenarios, therefore muddying the waters, rather than clearing things up.
I’m not sure how Louis Theroux’s production company can give ‘equal weighting to the possibility that Bamber is innocent ‘ especially given it looks like the CT have blown it
Mindhouse were not privy to the 10th of March 2021 submissions to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), and any attempt by the programme makers to suggest they are working with the campaign, Jeremy Bamber, his legal team, or the CCRC is wholly inaccurate.
It doesn’t look like they’ll be much representation from the ‘innocent’ side although there may be interviews with ex CCRC commissioners or case review managers once involved in or associated with Bamber’s previous case reviews?
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But that's not how you create balance. You create balance by looking at and analysing and assessing the evidence from a neutral point of view. Ofcom rules allow broadcasters to take sides.
This quote from Theroux is the problem:
Theroux says: "Whether you think Jeremy Bamber did it or whether you think Sheila did it, both scenarios have anomalies, or at least require one to accept... surprising and in some cases seemingly anomalous details.
"The journey I went on was hearing something and going 'If Jeremy Bamber did it, how did they explain that?' - or 'If Sheila did it, how would they explain that?'"
In the Sheila is innocent scenario there are no anomalies. Where are the anomalies? There is scientific, forensic evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that she didn't do it. There's more evidence today than there was in 1986. You don't have to believe a word Julie Mugford said to see that Sheila is innocent. There are literally no anomalies. There is no contradictory evidence.
All of the other 'smaller' pieces of evidence, like the fight in the kitchen, add credence to the Sheila is innocent scenario because it would be so unlikely that Sheila could have put up such a struggle against her dad and won.
All the evidence supports in a big or small way that Sheila didn't do it.
Agreed!
I don’t know if this forthcoming doc series will finally be exposing innocence fraud but I do know lots of people are talking about it
Could Louis Theroux be playing to his audience with his recent PR interview/s?
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This quote from Theroux is the problem:
Theroux says: "Whether you think Jeremy Bamber did it or whether you think Sheila did it, both scenarios have anomalies, or at least require one to accept... surprising and in some cases seemingly anomalous details.
"The journey I went on was hearing something and going 'If Jeremy Bamber did it, how did they explain that?' - or 'If Sheila did it, how would they explain that?'"
In the Sheila is innocent scenario there are no anomalies. Where are the anomalies? There is scientific, forensic evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that she didn't do it. There's more evidence today than there was in 1986. You don't have to believe a word Julie Mugford said to see that Sheila is innocent. There are literally no anomalies. There is no contradictory evidence.
I do believe Julie Mugford and I don’t believe she ‘knew’ Bamber was planning to kill his family members
I suspect the hints he gave her which she mentioned in her WS’s prior to the murders were subtle comments Julie brushed off at the time
And given the length of time of her knowing him, I don’t suppose she immediately thought he’d committed the murders - not on a conscious level at least
In the clip of Julie here at around 27:13 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU she states - with hindsight,
‘I didn’t think that at stage anyone would believe me’
‘and Jeremy was also so terribly confident that nobody could do anything about it that he said there was nothing I could do anyway’
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When Bamber & Brett Collins were “monitored’ in St Tropez by the police what were their findings?
And did they take a police witness statement from the women Bamber was said to have had ‘an affair’ with and if so what did it say?
Also what did Virginia and Angela Greaves say about Bamber’s ‘affair’ with this women?
-
Some interesting comments here https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19592419.new-louis-theroux-documentary-jeremy-bambers-guilt/
Also
‘Director Lucy Gammon said:
“This is a really complicated four-episode story.
“Often with a series, each series has a different story and that’s kind of how all series used to be.
“Now, we’re in this world of doing single narrative, which as Louis was saying, is kind of novelistic and it takes a lot of brains to get that right.”
and
‘Theroux, who executive produced the documentary, said:
“What really amazed me was how bizarre almost every version of the story is, and yet one of them, quite evidently, must be true.
“Sheila did have a history of serious mental illness and had expressed confused ideations about possibly doing physical harm to people.
“And at the same time, to believe that she did it, you’d have to believe that in her psychosis she did an almost executioner-style job. Every one of the bullets, there were 20-something shots, hit its target.”
“There are various strange, anomalous factors that mean there are these two camps: the people who believe passionately that Bamber did it, and the people who believe passionately that he didn’t do it
-
Some interesting comments here https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19592419.new-louis-theroux-documentary-jeremy-bambers-guilt/
Also
‘Director Lucy Gammon said:
“This is a really complicated four-episode story.
“Often with a series, each series has a different story and that’s kind of how all series used to be.
“Now, we’re in this world of doing single narrative, which as Louis was saying, is kind of novelistic and it takes a lot of brains to get that right.”
and
‘Theroux, who executive produced the documentary, said:
“What really amazed me was how bizarre almost every version of the story is, and yet one of them, quite evidently, must be true.
“Sheila did have a history of serious mental illness and had expressed confused ideations about possibly doing physical harm to people.
“And at the same time, to believe that she did it, you’d have to believe that in her psychosis she did an almost executioner-style job. Every one of the bullets, there were 20-something shots, hit its target.”
“There are various strange, anomalous factors that mean there are these two camps: the people who believe passionately that Bamber did it, and the people who believe passionately that he didn’t do it
This is another strange response from Louis Theroux.
He only talks about Sheila and her mental health.
Apart from the tranquilising effect of Haloperidol, she did also suffer symptoms of Parkinson's disease which is a known side effect of Haloperidol in some people.
It was the Parkinson's symptoms that was partly responsible for making her uncoordinated. Her reaction to Haloperidol was more complicated than just making her feel a bit sleepy. She had quite an extreme reaction to it.
It's wrong to talk about her mental health without talking about the side effects of the drugs, confirmed by many eye witnesses, and without saying something about Jeremy Bamber.
Obviously the doc will cover all of these things, and Theroux is probably being a bit cantankerous, or having his comments presented out of context.
Maybe he's trying to calm down Bamber supporters knowing that there will be a Tsunami of hate coming from Bamber supporters over the next few weeks.
-
What I mean is that Theroux will give equal weighting to the possibility that Bamber is innocent and the possibility that Sheila is guilty.
It was always my concern that this doc was going to give equal weighting to these alternative scenarios, therefore muddying the waters, rather than clearing things up.
And he would justify it by saying that that is how you create balance.
But that's not how you create balance. You create balance by looking at and analysing and assessing the evidence from a neutral point of view. Ofcom rules allow broadcasters to take sides.
This quote from Theroux is the problem:
Theroux says: "Whether you think Jeremy Bamber did it or whether you think Sheila did it, both scenarios have anomalies, or at least require one to accept... surprising and in some cases seemingly anomalous details.
"The journey I went on was hearing something and going 'If Jeremy Bamber did it, how did they explain that?' - or 'If Sheila did it, how would they explain that?'"
In the Sheila is innocent scenario there are no anomalies. Where are the anomalies? There is scientific, forensic evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that she didn't do it. There's more evidence today than there was in 1986. You don't have to believe a word Julie Mugford said to see that Sheila is innocent. There are literally no anomalies. There is no contradictory evidence.
All of the other 'smaller' pieces of evidence, like the fight in the kitchen, add credence to the Sheila is innocent scenario because it would be so unlikely that Sheila could have put up such a struggle against her dad and won.
All the evidence supports in a big or small way that Sheila didn't do it.
With the Bamber is guilty scenario, there are also no anomalies. There is no contradictory evidence that throws a spanner in the works.
With the Bamber is guilty scenario, there is missing evidence because his house wasn't searched and he wasn't examined at the time for injuries of markings on his body.
The silencer should have been found by the police, but that's not an anomaly, it's not contradictory evidence. Although it does allow room for Bambers supporters to claim that the blood in the silencer was planted, for which there is no evidence, and planting the blood would also be a very difficult thing to do technically. In fact, almost impossible. Therefore, no contradiction.
When you stick only to the evidence, there are no anomalies.
For Theroux to say what he did means that he doesn't understand this case, and hasn't properly gone through the actual evidence.
Louis Theroux may have an emotional attachment to Bamber because they are both white middle class, privately educated, well spoken, articulate people of a similar age. We know Theroux was fooled by Saville in exactly the same way that some Bamber supporters have been fooled by Bamber. Could it happen again? I believe it's a personality type that allows people to be fooled in this way. So Theroux may be predisposed to sympathise with Bamber, just as he may have been predisposed to sympathise with Saville.
The only way to defend Theroux is that the quote looks like it originated from an informal spoken interview and sometimes a written down excerpt comes across completely differently to the actual spoken interview. The quote therefore may be out of context, and also Theroux could have mis spoken the words, saying something that he didn't really mean, that then gets printed slightly out of context.
I hope that's the case.
It could well be Colsville
The more articles one reads on the forthcoming doc the more it seems some journalists may have paraphrased and not made this clear in their own articles
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This is another strange response from Louis Theroux.
He only talks about Sheila and her mental health.
Apart from the tranquilising effect of Haloperidol, she did also suffer symptoms of Parkinson's disease which is a known side effect of Haloperidol in some people.
It was the Parkinson's symptoms that was partly responsible for making her uncoordinated. Her reaction to Haloperidol was more complicated than just making her feel a bit sleepy. She had quite an extreme reaction to it.
It's wrong to talk about her mental health without talking about the side effects of the drugs, confirmed by many eye witnesses, and without saying something about Jeremy Bamber.
Agreed
-
Obviously the doc will cover all of these things, and Theroux is probably being a bit cantankerous, or having his comments presented out of context.
Maybe he's trying to calm down Bamber supporters knowing that there will be a Tsunami of hate coming from Bamber supporters over the next few weeks.
It’s hoped the ‘doc with cover all these things’ although I’m not sure 4 hours will be long enough?
It’s quite possible his comments have been taken out of context and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn some have been
He’s probably used to dealing with the varying types of ‘feedback’ he receives
-
Some interesting comments here https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/19592419.new-louis-theroux-documentary-jeremy-bambers-guilt/
Also
‘Director Lucy Gammon said:
“This is a really complicated four-episode story.
“Often with a series, each series has a different story and that’s kind of how all series used to be.
“Now, we’re in this world of doing single narrative, which as Louis was saying, is kind of novelistic and it takes a lot of brains to get that right.”
Does Lottie Gammon (NOT ‘Lucy’ - as printed by the Colchester Gazette/Jessica Day-Parker) mean she has ‘a lot of brains’ or was she referring to more than one person ?
-
His fraudster dad must have been released and given him ideas and a bundle of faked photos.
Annette Newman has asked Louis Theroux direct on Twitter
annette newman
@titchnewman
Replying to
@louistheroux
How did you obtain the crime scene photographs. ?
The real facts and evidence are on the podcasts White House farm Jeremy Bamber. Which prove beyond any doubt Jeremy is innocent
7:44 PM · Sep 14, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/titchnewman/status/1437849705480916999
Is she not aware there could be several sources for the distribution of the crime scene photos
Bamber (And anyone he could have chosen to send copies to)
Bamber’s ex CT members?
Andrew Hunter
Mike Teskowski
Giavanni di Stefano (And possibly his son Michael)
Eric Allison
Mark Williams Thomas
Hasn’t Bill Robertson also seen them and passed them round ? Or was that someone else?
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Is the attached Mindhouse colour pic of Mike Ainsley who appears in the doc?
https://simonwilkinson.photoshelter.com/image/I00005EAyJho0wuc (https://simonwilkinson.photoshelter.com/image/I00005EAyJho0wuc)
There’s a thread here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11541.msg595174#msg595174 on Bamber’s further attempts to smear Mick Ainsley
-
Annette Newman has asked Louis Theroux direct on Twitter
annette newman
@titchnewman
Replying to
@louistheroux
How did you obtain the crime scene photographs. ?
The real facts and evidence are on the podcasts White House farm Jeremy Bamber. Which prove beyond any doubt Jeremy is innocent
7:44 PM · Sep 14, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/titchnewman/status/1437849705480916999
Is she not aware there could be several sources for the distribution of the crime scene photos
Bamber (And anyone he could have chosen to send copies to)
Bamber’s ex CT members?
Andrew Hunter
Mike Teskowski
Giavanni di Stefano (And possibly his son Michael)
Eric Allison
Mark Williams Thomas
Hasn’t Bill Robertson also seen them and passed them round ? Or was that someone else?
Carol Ann Lee had access to the photos when she wrote her book, and I think she saw them from people like Mike Ainsley. I think he may have his own stash of photos. CAL saw the original 'wet blood' images, which she said clearly depicted the blood as dry and cracked. Other photos have been 'photoshopped' too, according to CAL.
CAL said she decided not to publish any crime scene photos in her book, but she didn't say where those photos would have originated from if she had. Mike Ainsley may or may not have allowed her to publish the photos he might have in his possession.
I don't know who annette newman is, but why is she concerned about the photos? They are all over the internet for anyone to see, all published illegally by the same people criticizing this doc for using the same photos.
I don't particularly want to see crime scene photos, but Giovanni Di Stefano was happy to show the world Sheila's neck wounds in that 2005 Sky doc. None of Bambers supporters complained about that.
We know those photos were faked, possibly at the request of GDS himself. It would be right and proper for this doc to put the record straight on all the instances where Bamber and his lawyers have photoshopped images, in order to enhance his case.
I think that's what Bamber supporters may be worried about.
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’Since then, Bamber has been fighting his conviction from prison, maintaining his innocence.’
The above was written by someone called Greta Levy and published by Tyla.com
What it should read is,
‘since then Bamber has refused to admit to his crimes and has been committing innocence fraud ever since
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Carol Ann Lee had access to the photos when she wrote her book, and I think she saw them from people like Mike Ainsley. I think he may have his own stash of photos. CAL saw the original 'wet blood' images, which she said clearly depicted the blood as dry and cracked. Other photos have been 'photoshopped' too, according to CAL.
CAL said she decided not to publish any crime scene photos in her book, but she didn't say where those photos would have originated from if she had. Mike Ainsley may or may not have allowed her to publish the photos he might have in his possession.
Did Carol Ann Lee meet with Mick Ainsley, where the original crime scene photographs are kept in storage*, and view the images there?
*I don’t know where the original documents are held - in Essex somewhere?
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I don't know who annette newman is, but why is she concerned about the photos? They are all over the internet for anyone to see, all published illegally by the same people criticizing this doc for using the same photos.
Maybe this is something the doc will also highlight ?
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I don't particularly want to see crime scene photos, but Giovanni Di Stefano was happy to show the world Sheila's neck wounds in that 2005 Sky doc. None of Bambers supporters complained about that.
No they didn’t and they still aren’t! 🙄
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We know those photos were faked, possibly at the request of GDS himself. It would be right and proper for this doc to put the record straight on all the instances where Bamber and his lawyers have photoshopped images, in order to enhance his case.
I think that's what Bamber supporters may be worried about.
I agree with both your points
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CAL said she decided not to publish any crime scene photos in her book, but she didn't say where those photos would have originated from if she had. Mike Ainsley may or may not have allowed her to publish the photos he might have in his possession.
Is the attached Mindhouse colour pic of Mike Ainsley who appears in the doc?
https://simonwilkinson.photoshelter.com/image/I00005EAyJho0wuc (https://simonwilkinson.photoshelter.com/image/I00005EAyJho0wuc)
Yep... same broad chin, bushy forelocks and absence of sideburns in both pics, 35 years apart.
Plus Mick Ainsley will be able to set the record straight during the airing of the forthcoming docu series
https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-1
Although Louis Theroux and co will already know the answer and will have done for some time I suspect
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I thought I'd have a look and see when or if that Sky Crime doc on Jeremy Bamber was going to be broadcast. I couldn't find anything on Sky, so I looked at Mindhouse productions website and they have it 'advertised' there.
https://mindhouse.co.uk/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm
What's interesting is that it is now a 4 x 60 minute documentary rather than the 3 x 60 minutes that they were saying back in January.
At 4 hours it sounds like it's going to be a very comprehensive documentary. That should be plenty of time to examine the propaganda and lies spewed out by Bamber and his support group over the years.
And then I did a search for 'Mindhouse' and 'Bamber' and found a tweet from April from the JB Campaign team....and they sound really spooked by this doc. They are not happy. They are not happy one bit!
https://twitter.com/FreeBamberNow/status/1388172207180898305/photo/1
The tweet they released was a paranoid and hypocrisy filled statement denouncing the whole Mindhouse project. They complain that Mindhouse have obtained crime scene photos of the bodies of the deceased, which they've used 'unethically' in the doc.
They conveniently leave out the fact that they themselves, via Bamber and his lawyers, have published numerous dead body images of Sheila and June Bamber, all without legal permission, and without any thought to the dignity and respect of those people depicted in the photographs.
We've all had to put up with viewing faked photoshopped images of Sheila's wounds thanks to Jeremy Bamber and that support group of his.
I've got a feeling that Mindhouse/Sky Crime are going to finally put the record straight on all of this. And there is nothing that Jeremy Bamber or his lawyers can do to stop it.
What does seem apparent is Mindhouse TV do not view them to be reliable sources
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Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021
‘A fascinating thing about him that I always cite, is that Jeremy Bamber has no diagnosis of being mentally ill or a psychopath. To all intents and purposes he is as normal as you and me. He charms people still and wins them over to his cause. He is a fascinating study of the essence of investigating miscarriages of justice. He is what it’s all about. The claim and counter claim, the obscuring of the truth, the complexity and ambiguity of the evidence, the lingering suggestion of police impropriety.
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents
Why does David James Smith ‘always cite’ this when it’s not true?
Carol Ann Lee - Mail on Sunday - 11th July 2015
‘….the psychiatrist engaged by Bamber’s defence team said that his very real belief that he had not committed the murders was a prime reason for diagnosing him as a psychopath.’
‘If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber.’
David James Smith worked for the CCRC reviewing Criminal convictions.
If he’s wrong on this what else has he been wrong on?
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Annette Newman has asked Louis Theroux direct on Twitter
annette newman
@titchnewman
Replying to
@louistheroux
How did you obtain the crime scene photographs. ?
The real facts and evidence are on the podcasts White House farm Jeremy Bamber. Which prove beyond any doubt Jeremy is innocent
7:44 PM · Sep 14, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/titchnewman/status/1437849705480916999
Is she not aware there could be several sources for the distribution of the crime scene photos
Bamber (And anyone he could have chosen to send copies to)
Bamber’s ex CT members?
Andrew Hunter
Mike Teskowski
Giavanni di Stefano (And possibly his son Michael)
Eric Allison
Mark Williams Thomas
Hasn’t Bill Robertson also seen them and passed them round ? Or was that someone else?
And didn’t David over on the blue forum say he’d had or seen crime scene photos from Andrew Hunter?
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I do believe Julie Mugford and I don’t believe she ‘knew’ Bamber was planning to kill his family members
I suspect the hints he gave her which she mentioned in her WS’s prior to the murders were subtle comments Julie brushed off at the time
And given the length of time of her knowing him, I don’t suppose she immediately thought he’d committed the murders - not on a conscious level at least
In the clip of Julie here at around 27:13 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU she states - with hindsight,
‘I didn’t think that at stage anyone would believe me’
‘and Jeremy was also so terribly confident that nobody could do anything about it that he said there was nothing I could do anyway’
There are a lot of facts in the above doc but I don’t buy into the narration.
However at around 7:15 Stan Jones says how he overheard Bamber ‘chuckle’
Will be interesting to see if the forthcoming Mindhouse doc explores the various misleading narratives told over the years
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Stuart Bower
Is he ‘legit’ ?
’Former cop aims to help free Jeremy Bamber’ - 17th Feb 2021
Excerpts:
“Former policeman Stuart Bower, from Hove, has been writing to the convicted killer since 2007 and believes Bamber has evidence which may exonerate him.
“In 1985, I was put in prison for a crime I didn’t commit,” said former West Yorkshire policeman Mr Bower.
“It took me nine years to clear my name in an uncontested appeal in 1994.”
Mr Bower was convicted of arson on a boat he owned jointly with his father-in-law.
He spent six months in custody and was awarded £475,000 in damages as a result.
“What happened to me is why I have put myself forward on more than one occasion to assist other people who have been victims of miscarriages of justice,” he said.
“Mr Bower said: “There was a documentary and one of the sergeants who attended the scene and was joined there by Jeremy Bamber said they saw somebody moving in the upstairs windows – they withdrew back and hid behind a hedge waiting for the firearms unit to arrive.
“This sergeant said that it was an optical illusion caused by moonshine on the window – which is what caused me to write to the science museum, directed to the Royal Observatory Edinburgh, who confirmed the moon wasn’t shining that night.
“To be exact, it was in its last quarter which means it was nothing more than a silver sickle in the sky.”
Mr Bower continues to write to and receive letters from Bamber.
Stuart Bower has been writing letters to Bamber since 2007
He has also written to Hove and Portslade MP Peter Kyle, urging him to get involved in the case.
He wrote: “If Jeremy Bamber was to write to you himself, would you be willing to take up the cudgels on his behalf, and refer this to the Home Secretary and demand that a copy of the audio message of the three nines call is handed over to his defence team?”
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19097573.amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Stuart Bower
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1991-03-22/debates/fafed605-23b2-4769-9ee3-74ff3fcc9c19/StuartBower
Ex-officer sues police after 25 years
Yorkshire Post - 23rd Nov 2010 by Andrew Robinson
‘A FORMER police officer who was wrongfully convicted of arson is suing his former employers and demanding to be reinstated – 25 years after he left the force.
Stuart Bower, now aged 60, left the West Yorkshire force in 1985 after he was convicted of arson on a boat he jointly owned with his father-in-law.
He spent three months in jail, with a further six months of his sentence suspended but was later cleared on appeal and won damages of £475,000.
Now, 25 years after he left, Mr Bower is suing the force for £500,000 – 21 years of wages from May 1985 until March 2006, plus a full pension backdated to March 2006.
Mr Bower has submitted an 87-page writ to the High Court for reinstatement to the force and further damages, claiming his resignation was “illegally obtained” following pressure from senior officers.
He also says he was “denied his lawful rights and privileges” to return to his job after clearing his name and was the “victim of a conspiracy”.
In papers submitted to the court in London, Sir Norman Bettison, Chief Constable of West Yorkshire Police, is named as the defendant.
Mr Bower is suing West Yorkshire Police for 21 years’ wages from May 1985 until March 2006, plus a full index-linked pension backdated to March 2006.
Hesaid: “It is impossible to put an exact figure on the amount claimed until such times as the court rules on what rank I could reasonably have expected to have obtained had it not been for a wrongful conviction.”
He also claims he repeatedly asked West Yorkshire Police for an investigation into the case but was denied one for 10 years. When an inquiry did take place in 2004, he alleges the investigator “refused to follow any line of inquiry that would lead to a successful conclusion”.
In his writ, he says: “My dispute with West Yorkshire Police has become a long ongoing saga.
This has grown out of all proportion. I am now entitled to expect the new Chief Constable (Sir Norman Bettison) to put matters right.”
West Yorkshire Police declined to comment because of ongoing court proceedings.
I presume he is aware the Court of Appeal haven’t ‘cleared him’ per se ?
I’ve not been able to source anything in regards to this so called ‘uncontested Appeal’ of Stuart Bower’s nor have I found anything linked to his alleged almost half a million pound payout
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17593245.vote-sick-lot-them-says-candidate/
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/3653781.motorist-takes-on-parking-fine-and-wins/
‘Retired police officer Stuart’ ⬅️ red flag right there?
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/grieving-sons-brilliant-monty-python-7656780
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10983941.former-policeman-calls-for-judicial-review-into-brighton-and-hove-golliwog-row/
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17003146.frustrated-resident-loses-legal-challenge-parking-permits/
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9950997.the-death-penalty/
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1113311.we-are-allowed-private-opinions/
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4311478.solution-to-lead-thefts/
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4307501.former-police-officers-view-from-other-side-of-the-line/
Has Mr Bower ever published any details of his case?
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1991-03-22/debates/fafed605-23b2-4769-9ee3-74ff3fcc9c19/StuartBower
And did he spend 6 or 3 months in custody?
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Bamber's bestie has gone AWOL. Her birthday bake-off, extremely-belated graveside eulogy and other sycophantic videos deleted from YouTube, never to surface again
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73janUtGz8Y&feature=youtu.be
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Why does David James Smith ‘always cite’ this when it’s not true?
Carol Ann Lee - Mail on Sunday - 11th July 2015
‘….the psychiatrist engaged by Bamber’s defence team said that his very real belief that he had not committed the murders was a prime reason for diagnosing him as a psychopath.’
‘If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber.’
David James Smith worked for the CCRC reviewing Criminal convictions.
If he’s wrong on this what else has he been wrong on?
Terry Mullens
‘we mustn’t test people we know for certain that are psychopaths’ 🙄
2:25
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Do7E5ksS5jQ
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His fraudster dad must have been released and given him ideas and a bundle of faked photos.
Q: ‘Wasn’t it your dad who seemingly doctored the images placed into the public domain - circa early 2000’s ?’
Michael Di Stefano
@DiStefano1410
Replying to
@HiddenInjustice
@ccrcupdate
and 4 others
I actually asked him about this today, he said “absolutely not” as the evidence he has/had he got directly off the police after disclosure hearings. ✌🏼
6:27 PM · Sep 21, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
David Jessel outed Giovanni Di Stefano back in 2004
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/3567653.stm
It seems you now have to log in to Vimeo to watch the BBC HARDtalk interview https://vimeo.com/23915286
David Jessel grilled him on his papers - worth watching if you haven’t already
How, after the above, would the police hand over sensitive crime scene photos?
‘Will the real Giovanni Di Stefano please stand up?’
"One of nature's fraudsters" is how a British judge described him when sentencing him to five years in prison in 1986, saying he was a "swindler without scruple or conscience".
Fraud. An inconvenient blot that keeps popping up in Di Stefano's infamous life and threatening to spoil his party. But it's also his driving force, his raison d'etre - to show up justice itself as the fraud.
Di Stefano explains away his convictions as mistakes that have since been corrected - on appeal. Unfortunately they weren't. But such is his nature that even when he's caught out he'll brazenly deny the facts.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/will-the-real-giovanni-di-stefano-please-stand-up/RYNK7OU2ONV5I4RIRESYE3ROCI/
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73janUtGz8Y&feature=youtu.be (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73janUtGz8Y&feature=youtu.be)
If I'd known five years ago she was having a garage sale in her back yard, I'd have offered a couple of quid for that gas barbie.
Every little helps poor Jem. 8(8-))
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Q: ‘Wasn’t it your dad who seemingly doctored the images placed into the public domain - circa early 2000’s ?’
Michael Di Stefano
@DiStefano1410
Replying to
@HiddenInjustice
@ccrcupdate
and 4 others
I actually asked him about this today, he said “absolutely not” as the evidence he has/had he got directly off the police after disclosure hearings. ✌🏼
6:27 PM · Sep 21, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
David Jessel outed Giovanni Di Stefano back in 2004
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/3567653.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/3567653.stm)
It seems you now have to log in to Vimeo to watch the BBC HARDtalk interview https://vimeo.com/23915286 (https://vimeo.com/23915286)
David Jessel grilled him on his papers - worth watching if you haven’t already
How, after the above, would the police hand over sensitive crime scene photos?
I bet his fellow lags are really sick he won't be released. It must be hell being kept awake all night by his endless caterwauling din...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AB9VuSE3JA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AB9VuSE3JA)
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I bet his fellow lags are really sick he won't be released. It must be hell being kept awake all night by his endless caterwauling din...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AB9VuSE3JA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AB9VuSE3JA)
The door @)(++(* did you see the door @)(++(*
Think I prefer his duets
And am guessing Michael did this for his dad @)(++(*
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I bet his fellow lags are really sick he won't be released. It must be hell being kept awake all night by his endless caterwauling din...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AB9VuSE3JA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AB9VuSE3JA)
Do you think this could actually be Michael pretending to be his dad ?
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Do,you think this could actually be Michael pretending to be his dad ?
His son must be running the YouTube account whilst pa's banged up without internet access.
Just watching the Vimeo interview... Jessel can't get a word in edgeways!
Definitely pa trying to sing though.
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His son must be running the YouTube account whilst pa's banged up without internet access.
Just watching the Vimeo interview... Jessel can't get a word in edgeways!
Definitely pa trying to sing though.
I’m guessing Mike Teskowski or Bamber gave Di Stefano the case files and photos he put together for the album he shows off in the ‘killing mum and dad’ doc (which was made by Redbrick productions - whose MD was Vivian McGrath https://www.vivianmcgrath.com/cv/)
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/new-evidence-claim-in-bamber-case-7444766
because he was under police investigation around the same time
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2004/jan/28/ukcrime.rosiecowan1
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’Psychopaths feel personal satisfaction through pulling the so-called strings and making people jump.
They do something that they know will upset you just to see you cry. They trap you into no-win situations to watch you squirm. They devalue and discard you, so they can watch you fall apart.
https://lovefraud.com/psychopaths-as-puppet-masters/
I note with interest your views, beliefs and understandings regarding the relationship between Jeremy and myself.
I would like to add that our 'friendship' ended solely due to the lies and self seeking antics of Tracy Brazier from the Innocent Group. Her behaviour I found to be unsettling and most disturbing - I found myself on unfamiliar territory when having to defend myself against her lies in order to discredit me in the eyes of Jeremy and the Campaign.
Jeremy chose to question me regarding the false accusations made against me and when I felt him lying to me down the phone I chose to walk away from him. He did not drop me - I dropped him!!
He was someone for whom I strongly believed was wrongly imprisoned, he was alone and the nation had turned their back on this 'child killer'. I did what I could at the time, for many years, but I should honestly add it is nothing compared to what others have done recently using the web and new technology.
When our 'friendship' ended I was deeply saddened......and I was concerned for his own well being having become more aware of the 'new' people surrounding him. Liars, self seeking and deluded bamberettes and clever manipulators.....but I could do nothing more to help him. Whenever I informed him of 'their' antics he tried to assure me he knew exactly what these people were like and described alot of them just as I have here.
However, after almost 20 years of befriending this man, it came as somewhat of a relief to let others take over. I felt responsible for him for many years and it was a weight lifted the day we parted. Today, I only hope that those around him stay, as I did, when all else is lost.
I hold no resentment against Jeremy and will not attempt to make him out to be someone he is not. I don't feel it necessary to post his letters, our photo's etc......it was a strange relationship at the time, as he was in prison, but during our time together he was a most decent and respectable man.
I have come to believe and understand that Jeremy makes decisions based solely upon the information he receives from other in the outside world. If the information he receives comes from somebody who dislikes me or feels threatened by my position, then the information about me will be most negative. And, if that person can have Group members support her lies, by also writing to Jeremy, then I don't stand a chance. I refused to play the game and walked away. Quite happily.
Should he ever be released, then he will have to come and see me as I still hold his most valuable possessions from his family.....and his own. The truth comes out in the end.....one may just have to wait many years, but I'm in no rush at all!
I hope this gives some insight into those 20 years and gives answers to questions so far unanswered.
‘Theroux believes the convicted killer will "probably take issue with parts" of his latest series.
"Whether or not you believe he did it, he's on a campaign to have himself freed," he says.
"I think he'd appreciate the fact we've done a nuanced and forensic view, but we've clearly included material that undermines or disputes that (campaign)."
https://news.sky.com/story/louis-theroux-examines-jeremy-bamber-murders-and-reveals-why-legit-people-believe-five-time-killer-is-innocent-12406985
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Will the forthcoming docu series interview Kerry Beckley - seemingly the most recent person to ‘assess’ Bamber behind bars?
https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5fa0f3cd2c94e007ea88dce4
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Why does David James Smith ‘always cite’ this when it’s not true?
Carol Ann Lee - Mail on Sunday - 11th July 2015
‘….the psychiatrist engaged by Bamber’s defence team said that his very real belief that he had not committed the murders was a prime reason for diagnosing him as a psychopath.’
‘If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber.’
David James Smith worked for the CCRC reviewing Criminal convictions.
If he’s wrong on this what else has he been wrong on?
David James Smith July 2021 speech given at the University of Sussex’s crime and research centres annual public lecture is quite interesting
It can be found here http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents under the photograph of DJS where it reads,
‘Click here for transcript of David James Smith talk: Barriers to Investigating Miscarriages of Justice’
On page 3 of the transcript it states,
‘I met my first victim of a miscarriage of justice many years ago, when I wrote about him for the Sunday Times Magazine. I went to see him in a high security prison where he was serving a long sentence after being convicted of blasting his girlfriend’s parents to death with a shotgun at close range.
I would usually counsel against making judgments like this – because I don’t really think you can tell who is capable of murder or can believe someone who tells you they haven’t committed a murder when the law says they have. I think you should judge on the facts and the law and not on gut instinct. But a less likely murderer than Jonathan Jones is almost impossible to imagine.
Jones was a mild-mannered and softly spoken young man, perhaps a bit unworldly and disorganised. He said he had been in Kent when the parents of his girlfriend, Cheryl Tooze had been killed with a shotgun at their remote home in South Wales in July 1993
In February 2017 via The Justice Gap online magazine owned and run by Jon Robins, David James Smith stated, under the bold byline, ‘Factually innocent’
‘I know people say it’s always the quiet ones and that we all have it in us, in the right circumstances but, really, a less likely murderer than Jones it is difficult to imagine. Even the trial judge thought so, and, controversially, said so.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/proof-magazine-truth-justice-like-truth-journalism-indivisible/
Having done a ‘deep dive’ into the material available online - I’m of the firm view Harry and Megan Tooze were murdered by Jonathon Jones who went on to marry Harry and Megan’s daughter - Cheryl Tooze - now known as Cheryl Jones.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/jones/index.htm
It was Cheryl who ran the public campaign to overturn Jonathon Jones murder conviction.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/tenacious-fiancee-triumphs-as-her-lover-is-cleared-of-farmhouse-shotgun-killing-1306788.html
Will be interesting to see if David James Smith appears in the forthcoming Mindhouse TV docu series. He was involved in the BBC’s doc on the murder of Jill Dando, which apparently was made to mark the 20th anniversary of her death.
‘David has a close interest in criminal justice and served five years (2013-2018) as a Commissioner at The Criminal Cases Review Commission, appointed by HM The Queen to oversee investigations into miscarriages of justice. http://www.davidjamessmith.net/about/
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David James Smith July 2020 speech given at the University of Sussex’s crime and research centres annual public lecture is quite interesting
It can be found here http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents under the photograph of DJS where it reads,
‘Click here for transcript of David James Smith talk: Barriers to Investigating Miscarriages of Justice’
On page 3 of the transcript it states,
‘I met my first victim of a miscarriage of justice many years ago, when I wrote about him for the Sunday Times Magazine. I went to see him in a high security prison where he was serving a long sentence after being convicted of blasting his girlfriend’s parents to death with a shotgun at close range.
I would usually counsel against making judgments like this – because I don’t really think you can tell who is capable of murder or can believe someone who tells you they haven’t committed a murder when the law says they have. I think you should judge on the facts and the law and not on gut instinct. But a less likely murderer than Jonathan Jones is almost impossible to imagine.
Jones was a mild-mannered and softly spoken young man, perhaps a bit unworldly and disorganised. He said he had been in Kent when the parents of his girlfriend, Cheryl Tooze had been killed with a shotgun at their remote home in South Wales in July 1993
In February 2017 via The Justice Gap online magazine owned and run by Jon Robins, David James Smith stated, under the bold byline, ‘Factually innocent’
‘I know people say it’s always the quiet ones and that we all have it in us, in the right circumstances but, really, a less likely murderer than Jones it is difficult to imagine. Even the trial judge thought so, and, controversially, said so.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/proof-magazine-truth-justice-like-truth-journalism-indivisible/
Having done a ‘deep dive’ into the material available online - I’m of the firm view Harry and Megan Tooze were murdered by Jonathon Jones who went on to marry Harry and Megan’s daughter - Cheryl Tooze - now known as Cheryl Jones.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/jones/index.htm
It was Cheryl who ran the public campaign to overturn Jonathon Jones murder conviction.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/tenacious-fiancee-triumphs-as-her-lover-is-cleared-of-farmhouse-shotgun-killing-1306788.html
Will be interesting to see if David James Smith appears in the forthcoming Mindhouse TV docu series. He was involved in the BBC’s doc on the murder of Jill Dando, which apparently was made to mark the 20th anniversary of her death.
‘David has a close interest in criminal justice and served five years (2013-2018) as a Commissioner at The Criminal Cases Review Commission, appointed by HM The Queen to oversee investigations into miscarriages of justice. http://www.davidjamessmith.net/about/
I communicated briefly with David James Smith in early 2019.
I don’t know if it was a coincidence when the CCRC removed the link to convicted/exonerated killer Michael O’Brien’s video they’d collaborated with him on, after I mentioned it to David but the link stopped working very soon after. (It’s still available to watch here https://wearestraightline.com/video/11-years-wrongly-imprisoned-michaels-story and via the CCRC’s Facebook page here https://en-gb.facebook.com/criminalcasesreview/posts/ccrc-weve-posted-a-new-ccrc-film-on-our-website-we-made-it-with-national-prison-/791665714290789/)
I didn’t know much about David James Smith at the time and certainly wasn’t aware of the following https://blackwatertown.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/how-to-make-a-comeback-from-being-burned-at-the-stake/ from 2010 but it would be interesting to know why he has always cited Bamber as never having been diagnosed as a psychopath.
David James Smith
‘A fascinating thing about him that I always cite, is that Jeremy Bamber has no diagnosis of being mentally ill or a psychopath. To all intents and purposes he is as normal as you and me. He charms people still and wins them over to his cause. He is a fascinating study of the essence of investigating miscarriages of justice. He is what it’s all about. The claim and counter claim, the obscuring of the truth, the complexity and ambiguity of the evidence, the lingering suggestion of police impropriety.
More excerpts here ⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg660808#msg660808
I’d also like to know how, when and why “Reader, I have no idea” morphed into “Reader you decide” ?
David James Smith
July 2021
’I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.
July 2010
‘I had said on the way in that I feared I would find him repulsive, but in the event, I found him all too human and understandable. Except for the part of him that I felt was hidden. The corner of his soul that carried the knowledge of what had really happened that night 25 years ago, and who really killed the family.
He knows the truth. And he is the only person in the world who does.
Was it Sheila? Was it Jeremy?
Reader, I have no idea.
http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-bamber-murders-and-by-dawn-they-were-all-dead-w[Name removed]sf7rphrf
July 2021 - by David James Smith and Ales Bellotti
‘Killer church warden Ben Field was no ordinary psychopath - as his chilling diaries show'
‘EXCLUSIVE: Gaslighting and manipulating his elderly lovers, evil Ben Field was jailed for murder in 2019. Here, crime writer David James Smith journeys into his dark mind
In his new book Let Us Prey, available on Audible, crime writer David James Smith journeys into his dark mind and the diary entries where he fantasised about smothering the entire neighbourhood.
‘One of the only journalists allowed to interview White House Farm killer Jeremy Bamber in prison, Smith here tells how Field is more "breathtakingly wicked" than any murderer he has ever covered.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-church-warden-ben-field-24581812
Has David James Smith not recognised Bamber’s ‘gaslighting and manipulating’ over these past 35 or so years and does he not consider Bamber to be ‘breathtakingly wicked’?
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Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
How lovely to meet up with Yvonne Hartley
@Bambertweets
after so much time, it was great catching up on the Jeremy Bamber campaign. I’m so looking forward to being interviewed for the podcasts very soon Smiling face with 3 hearts
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9:36 am · 18 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1439146211131498496
@)(++(*
Michelle MoJ Diskin Bates
What a lovely meeting we had with Yvonne Hartley about the Jeremy Bamber justice campaign. It was so good to catch up after all this time. I’m looking forward to recording my interview about Barry’s case for the JB podcasts. Also, to speak about my experience of the night those terrible murders took place in White House Farm in 1984.
https://www.facebook.com/michelle.m.diskin
@)(++(*
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Michelle MoJ Diskin Bates
What a lovely meeting we had with Yvonne Hartley about the Jeremy Bamber justice campaign. It was so good to catch up after all this time. I’m looking forward to recording my interview about Barry’s case for the JB podcasts. Also, to speak about my experience of the night those terrible murders took place in White House Farm in 1984.
https://www.facebook.com/michelle.m.diskin
*&^^&
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Jeremy Bamber Campaign Team Blog - Mindhouse production is not based on evidence! https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com
12:50 pm · 16 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
They contacted me, but obviously my knowledge of this case was not a match for their agenda! So desperately sad that they were not interested in THE TRUTH Crying facePouting face #shameonthem
12:53 pm · 16 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1438470457515200521
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I wonder during the forthcoming Mindhouse production whether or not Brett Collins will clarify if he knew ‘Ray’ and whether or not he will give the name of the bloke he supposedly rented his flat out to - which was apparently situated ‘below his house?’?
Could ‘Ray’ be the same man who Brett Collins rented his flat out to?
I’ve seen the name, Charles Marsden, but don’t recall who he actually is. Does anyone know?
Whilst searching for some factual evidence last night at someone’s request, I stumbled upon some of Julie Mugford’s witness statements where she discusses Jeremy’s bisexuality.
She said he kept a photo of his NZ lover, Ray, on his dresser and admitted to Julie he’d had a gay affair with him, but it was a “one-off”...
Julie seemed so gullible
She then said how Jeremy flirted with both Brett, including another man at the bar they’d gone to on the NIGHT OF THE FUNERALS.
And did Bamber go from having ‘an affair’ with ‘Ray’ to having ‘an affair’ with Brett Collins ?
And was it these possible ‘affairs’ which Brett Collins was referring to with regards the trouble Bamber had in New Zealand?
Brett Collins to Kay Page (2021)
‘I first met him in New Zealand. I was renting a flat below my house to an air steward who (something) in New Zealand and they both met in Hong Kong.
Jeremy was coming to New Zealand with a diving course and they seemed to get on over a few days. So he invited Jeremy to stay in the flat, which I owned because he was doing international flights which meant he was going to be away for a few weeks. So I met Jeremy when he arrived in Auckland and I let him stay in my flat for about a month.
‘We did get on very well.. Jeremy actually bisexual and he could swing both ways depending on what mood he was in.
Originally there was more to our friendship when I first met him because I was bisexual also
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0
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Carol Ann Lee referring to the girl from the Chequers public house
’She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’.
‘The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged. Feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’ after hearing that Jeremy had told Julie about the episode, she called at the cottage while Jeremy was working. Julie recalled the girl describing a threesome and, when she confronted Jeremy, he told her that the girl was neurotic. Leaving Julie sobbing in the garden, he returned later and charged at the locked door, splintering it. Julie decided to believe him and broke off her friendship with the girl as he asked.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=charles+marsden+essex&source=bl&ots=jQISI3Diw_&sig=ACfU3U1i336DTUwUTlMThBe2M3Xntg_NJA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil_JK6psXpAhW-QhUIHRPOAwkQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20essex&f=false
Julie didn’t mention the word ‘threesome’ in her statement dated 10th September 1995 in relation to Sarah
The relevant page is ‘Sheet 11’ here ⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=283.msg4960#msg4960
‘Sheet 12’ of Julie Mugford statement reads,
‘I asked him why he had smashed the door and he told me he was upset that I should believe a girl from the village who I did not know and not him about the three in a bed incident.’
The word ‘threesome’ appears at the top of ‘Sheet 11’ of Julie Mugford’s witness statement and she uses the words ‘three in a bed incident’ to describe what happened to Sarah
Carol Ann Lee has also somehow misconstrued the ‘relationship’ between Sarah and Julie Mugford?
‘Jeremy’s second liaison was with another friend of Julie’s..
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=charles+marsden+essex&source=bl&ots=jQISI3Diw_&sig=ACfU3U1i336DTUwUTlMThBe2M3Xntg_NJA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil_JK6psXpAhW-QhUIHRPOAwkQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20essex&f=false
Julie Mugford makes it clear on the same ‘Sheet 11’ of her police witness statement
‘Last summer I was approached by a girl called Sarah who was an associate of Charles MARSDEN’
What Carol Ann Lee describesd as a ‘liaison’ appears to me to be another violent crime
I’m of the view Julie Mugford may have recognised the significance of the above ‘incident’ at some point
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The address details for Progressing Prisoners Maintaining Innocence or PPMI for short - found here on right http://www.prisonersmaintaininginnocence.org.uk/our-committee/ are for Swain and Co solicitors in Havent, Hampshire here https://www.swainandco.com/
http://www.prisonersmaintaininginnocence.org.uk/our-work/
dean kingham
@deankingham
A very good 2018 for the
@SwainSolicitors
prison law team. Highlights include cat a downgrades, convictions quashed, innocent people released by the Parole Board, accused individuals found not guilty. 2019 will be better. I have a feeling Bamber and Stone will have good years.
1:04 AM · Jan 1, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/deankingham/status/1079906216472653824
Progressing Prisoners Maintaining Innocence (PPMI) website
The committee which’s makes up PPMI is as follows:
Chair:- John Stokes
Vice-Chair: Dean Kingham (Solicitor, Parole Board Lead for the Society of Prison Lawyers)
Treasurer:- Gerry McFlynn (Irish Commission for Prisoners Overseas)
Secretary:- Sue Stephens
PPMI (Progressing Prisoners Maintaining Innocence)
@PPMI_Innocence
#JeremyBamberisFactuallyInnocent |
@Bambertweets
@JBamberFacebook
@ccrcupdate
| For a factual update on this case,
@ApplePodcasts
| %E2%80%8EJeremy Bamber and White House Farm: New Application to the Criminal Cases Review Commission on Apple Podcasts
Show Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm, Ep New Application to the Criminal Cases Review Commission - Mar 16, 2021
podcasts.apple.com
2:02 PM · Aug 8, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/PPMI_Innocence/status/1424355261674835970
@)(++(*
I’m guessing Swain and co, PPMI or Dean Kingham won’t be taking part in the forthcoming doc?
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Looks like her... along with Peter Sutherst, some other supporter, David Boutflour, Brett Collins and a cheapo Blue Peter WHF model made from cardboard, sticky-backed plastic and plasticine...
Chris Bews too by the looks of it
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Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
Eight pointed starEight pointed starEight pointed starNEWEight pointed starEight pointed starEight pointed starNEWEight pointed starEight pointed starEight pointed starNEWEight pointed starEight pointed starEight pointed starNEWEight pointed starEight pointed starEight pointed star
Michael O'Brien
@michael47478285
was wrongly convicted of murdering a Cardiff newsagent in 1988 and served 11 years in prison, 7 of those were with Jeremy Bamber
Have a listen:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/presentation-by-michael-obrien/id1555731881?i=1000536227757…
#JeremyBamber #WhiteHouseFarm
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1:57 pm · 22 Sep 2021·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/1440661412200665093
@)(++(*
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Chris Bews too by the looks of it
Better not keep changing his mind about which of them saw what. 8(8-))
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Michelle MoJ Diskin Bates
What a lovely meeting we had with Yvonne Hartley about the Jeremy Bamber justice campaign. It was so good to catch up after all this time. I’m looking forward to recording my interview about Barry’s case for the JB podcasts. Also, to speak about my experience of the night those terrible murders took place in White House Farm in 1984.
https://www.facebook.com/michelle.m.diskin (https://www.facebook.com/michelle.m.diskin)
@)(++(*
I'm sure it was in 1972... but then again it might have been in 1998... or was it 2001? *%87 My memory isn't what it used to be... Sheesh, I'll have to look it up.
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I'm sure it was in 1972... but then again it might have been in 1998... or was it 2001? *%87 My memory isn't what it used to be... Sheesh, I'll have to look it up.
She doesn’t care - this is all about her ‘experience’ *&^^&
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Is Liberty Hyde one of Yvonne Hartley’s pseudonyms?
Liberty Hyde
It was so lovely to see you and catch up on all the news. I'm very much looking forward to seeing you again very soon, and to your interview. Thank you for your kindness, friendship, hospitality and support. Xxx
(Comment under the original Facebook post)
*&^^&
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Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
Eight pointed starEight pointed starEight pointed starNEWEight pointed starEight pointed starEight pointed starNEWEight pointed starEight pointed starEight pointed starNEWEight pointed starEight pointed starEight pointed starNEWEight pointed starEight pointed starEight pointed star
Michael O'Brien
@michael47478285
was wrongly convicted of murdering a Cardiff newsagent in 1988 and served 11 years in prison, 7 of those were with Jeremy Bamber
Have a listen:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/presentation-by-michael-obrien/id1555731881?i=1000536227757…
#JeremyBamber #WhiteHouseFarm
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1:57 pm · 22 Sep 2021·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/1440661412200665093
@)(++(*
Convicted/exonerated killer and ex CCRC ‘poster boy’ Michael O’Brien has promoted the same nonsense for as long as I can remember 🙄
He claims in this podcast an ex CCRC commissioner told him they really wanted to refer Bamber’s murder convictions to the CoA and it’s possible on this one occasion he might be telling the truth @)(++(*
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https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/n7652p/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-season-1/
Episode 1. Summary. The true story of the White House Farm murders, where Jeremy Bamber took the lives of his adoptive parents, sister and her twin sons in 1985.
Episode 2. Summary. Jeremy's mammoth trial divides the public. He alleges his sister committed the murders, but a crucial piece of evidence contradicts his story.
Review
By David Brown
‘Louis Theroux has spent his career profiling odd and sometimes dangerous personalities, so it’s no surprise to see his name attached to this new exploration of the White House Farm killings. After all, psyches don’t come much more warped than Jeremy Bamber’s. But, in this instance, he’s behind the camera as executive producer rather than on screen in plaid shirt and specs.
The result is a more traditional true-crime doc that features interviews with friends of the Bambers, as well as police and lawyers involved in the case. But an attempt to study the psychology of the family unit as a whole feels fresh, as do the contributions made by a local resident who swears that Jeremy is innocent.
Could the ‘local resident’ be Poppy Ann Miller?
Was Poppy Ann Miller a ‘local resident’ of Tolleshunt D'Arcy in 1985?
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The following link is to, what Bamber & his CT (Sarah Hanover) have called the ‘liars lobby’
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/liars-lobby (http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/liars-lobby)
The 14th box down on the left hand side refers to fourteen of Bamber’s friends who apparently made witness statements
The CT website claims their WS’s weren’t disclosed until after the 2002 appeal
Who are these 14 alleged ‘friends’ of Bamber’s?
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https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/n7652p/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-season-1/ (https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/n7652p/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-season-1/)
Episode 1. Summary. The true story of the White House Farm murders, where Jeremy Bamber took the lives of his adoptive parents, sister and her twin sons in 1985.
Episode 2. Summary. Jeremy's mammoth trial divides the public. He alleges his sister committed the murders, but a crucial piece of evidence contradicts his story.
Review
By David Brown
‘Louis Theroux has spent his career profiling odd and sometimes dangerous personalities, so it’s no surprise to see his name attached to this new exploration of the White House Farm killings. After all, psyches don’t come much more warped than Jeremy Bamber’s. But, in this instance, he’s behind the camera as executive producer rather than on screen in plaid shirt and specs.
The result is a more traditional true-crime doc that features interviews with friends of the Bambers, as well as police and lawyers involved in the case. But an attempt to study the psychology of the family unit as a whole feels fresh, as do the contributions made by a local resident who swears that Jeremy is innocent.
Could the ‘local resident’ be Poppy Ann Miller?
Was Poppy Ann Miller a ‘local resident’ of Tolleshunt D'Arcy in 1985?
Probably, if the side-view photo is of her at the sea wall.
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Probably, if the side-view photo is of her at the sea wall.
According to a July 2012 article for the Maldon standard - Poppy Ann Miller had been living in a road in Maldon for 15 years
Would that come under a ‘local resident’?
Or could it be Barbara De’ath who is being referred to? https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death
Was Poppy Ann Miller living in the area in 1985?
Her ‘testimony’ states,
‘I have been supporting and writing to Jeremy since I watched ‘Crimes that Shook Britain’ on television’
https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/poppy-ann-miller
Poppy Ann Miller
’I live a few miles from White House Farm where Jeremy was raised by his adoptive parents Nevill and June Bamber. Sheila, his adoptive sister arrived a few years later.
Where was she living in 1985?
Her ‘testimony’ seems to be giving the impression she knew the family at the time ?
Why does she state,
‘Sheila, his adoptive sister arrived a few years later’
What’s the significance of this - I don’t follow?
She also states,
‘In his letters to me Jeremy writes fondly of his childhood, his happy days at Maldon Court School, at the top of Market Hill and of two of his favourite teachers…’
-
The following link is to, what Bamber & his CT (Sarah Hanover) have called the ‘liars lobby’
The 14th box down on the left hand side refers to fourteen of Bamber’s friends who apparently made witness statements
The CT website claims their WS’s weren’t disclosed until after the 2002 appeal
Who are these 14 alleged ‘friends’ of Bamber’s?
If they think posting slanderous gossip and funny photos of the leading players is going to persuade a discerning public to get on board their train to nowhere, then they're living in fantasy land.
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According to a July 2012 article for the Maldon standard - Poppy Ann Miller had been living in a road in Maldon for 15 years
Would that come under a ‘local resident’?
Or could it be Barbara De’ath who is being referred to? https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death (https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/barbara-death)
Was Poppy Ann Miller living in the area in 1985?
Her ‘testimony’ states,
‘I have been supporting and writing to Jeremy since I watched ‘Crimes that Shook Britain’ on television’
https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/poppy-ann-miller (https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/poppy-ann-miller)
No idea, but if she was, she might have moved from Tolleshunt or Goldhanger to Maldon around 1997.
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No idea, but if she was, she might have moved from Tolleshunt or Goldhanger to Maldon around 1997.
For me her ‘testimony’ suggests she didn’t know the family in 1985
Referring to her as a ‘local resident’ without added context is misleading
Do you find this statement odd? ⬇️
‘I live a few miles from White House Farm where Jeremy was raised by his adoptive parents Nevill and June Bamber. Sheila, his adoptive sister arrived a few years later’
‘Testimony’ of Poppy Ann Miller ⬇️
https://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/poppy-ann-miller
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I see Mindhouse/Sky are stringing it out over four weeks, but at least they got this right...
"The true story of the White House Farm murders, where Jeremy Bamber took the lives of his adoptive parents, sister and her twin sons in 1985."
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I see Mindhouse/Sky are stringing it out over four weeks, but at least they got this right...
"The true story of the White House Farm murders, where Jeremy Bamber took the lives of his adoptive parents, sister and her twin sons in 1985."
All 4 episodes will be available to view Sunday
-
All 4 episodes will be available to view Sunday
Where does it say that?
-
For me her ‘testimony’ suggests she didn’t know the family in 1985
Referring to her as a ‘local resident’ without added context is misleading
Do you find this statement odd? ⬇️
‘I live a few miles from White House Farm where Jeremy was raised by his adoptive parents Nevill and June Bamber. Sheila, his adoptive sister arrived a few years later’
‘Testimony’ of Poppy Ann Miller ⬇️
She's as confuzzled as Barry George's sis.
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Where does it say that?
Click on the down arrows...
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/n7652p/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-season-1/ (https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/n7652p/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-season-1/)
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ReviewBy David Brown
‘Louis Theroux has spent his career profiling odd and sometimes dangerous personalities, so it’s no surprise to see his name attached to this new exploration of the White House Farm killings. After all, psyches don’t come much more warped than Jeremy Bamber’s. But, in this instance, he’s behind the camera as executive producer rather than on screen in plaid shirt and specs.
The result is a more traditional true-crime doc that features interviews with friends of the Bambers, as well as police and lawyers involved in the case. But an attempt to study the psychology of the family unit as a whole feels fresh, as do the contributions made by a local resident who swears that Jeremy is innocent.
To David Brown maybe but hasn’t this been done across the forums since way back when?
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‘Director of the docu-series Lottie Gammon, who worked with Louis on The Night In Question, told Tyla: “There are lots of theories, and lots of questions from people who know about the case, and we tried to deep-dive into that and we don’t shy away from it. Whereas, I think often this case is looked at it in quite black and white kind of way - either you believe he's 100 per cent innocent or 100 per cent guilty. We’ve tried to show this is really complicated, and there are reasons why it’s stayed in the public eye."
https://www.tyla.com/tv-and-film/louise-theroux-new-murder-series-divide-people-interview-20210917
Will be interesting to see what they conclude these reasons to be
‘The documentary's makers had hoped to interview Bamber, but director Lottie Gammon says the Ministry of Justice refused to allow it.
She says some of those campaigning for Bamber's release have "legitimate" concerns, including how police treated the murder scene.
"There's a lot of question marks over their behaviour," she says.
"No one really clearly explains - because they didn't really have to during the trial - how did he do this crime? That's not something that was nailed down.
"Because there are these loose threads, many loose threads, it's easy for people to look at it and have questions.
"I think this case is quite suited to the online world now of deep diving into these cases - especially over lockdown, these groups have really proliferated."
https://news.sky.com/story/louis-theroux-examines-jeremy-bamber-murders-and-reveals-why-legit-people-believe-five-time-killer-is-innocent-12406985
What ‘groups’ is she referring to?
Is Lottie Gammon & co aware of this forum and the blue forum and of how long they’ve been up and running?
-
‘Director of the docu-series Lottie Gammon, who worked with Louis on The Night In Question, told Tyla: “There are lots of theories, and lots of questions from people who know about the case, and we tried to deep-dive into that and we don’t shy away from it. Whereas, I think often this case is looked at it in quite black and white kind of way - either you believe he's 100 per cent innocent or 100 per cent guilty. We’ve tried to show this is really complicated, and there are reasons why it’s stayed in the public eye."
https://www.tyla.com/tv-and-film/louise-theroux-new-murder-series-divide-people-interview-20210917
Will be interesting to see what they conclude these reasons to be
‘The documentary's makers had hoped to interview Bamber, but director Lottie Gammon says the Ministry of Justice refused to allow it.
She says some of those campaigning for Bamber's release have "legitimate" concerns, including how police treated the murder scene.
"There's a lot of question marks over their behaviour," she says.
"No one really clearly explains - because they didn't really have to during the trial - how did he do this crime? That's not something that was nailed down.
"Because there are these loose threads, many loose threads, it's easy for people to look at it and have questions.
"I think this case is quite suited to the online world now of deep diving into these cases - especially over lockdown, these groups have really proliferated."
https://news.sky.com/story/louis-theroux-examines-jeremy-bamber-murders-and-reveals-why-legit-people-believe-five-time-killer-is-innocent-12406985
What ‘groups’ is she referring to?
Is Lottie Gammon & co aware of this forum and the blue forum and of how long they’ve been up and running?
Lottie Gammon via BBC Essex
https://twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1441299612120219649
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David James Smith July 2021 speech given at the University of Sussex’s crime and research centres annual public lecture is quite interesting
It can be found here http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents under the photograph of DJS where it reads,
‘Click here for transcript of David James Smith talk: Barriers to Investigating Miscarriages of Justice’
On page 3 of the transcript it states,
‘I met my first victim of a miscarriage of justice many years ago, when I wrote about him for the Sunday Times Magazine. I went to see him in a high security prison where he was serving a long sentence after being convicted of blasting his girlfriend’s parents to death with a shotgun at close range.
I would usually counsel against making judgments like this – because I don’t really think you can tell who is capable of murder or can believe someone who tells you they haven’t committed a murder when the law says they have. I think you should judge on the facts and the law and not on gut instinct. But a less likely murderer than Jonathan Jones is almost impossible to imagine.
Jones was a mild-mannered and softly spoken young man, perhaps a bit unworldly and disorganised. He said he had been in Kent when the parents of his girlfriend, Cheryl Tooze had been killed with a shotgun at their remote home in South Wales in July 1993
In February 2017 via The Justice Gap online magazine owned and run by Jon Robins, David James Smith stated, under the bold byline, ‘Factually innocent’
‘I know people say it’s always the quiet ones and that we all have it in us, in the right circumstances but, really, a less likely murderer than Jones it is difficult to imagine. Even the trial judge thought so, and, controversially, said so.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/proof-magazine-truth-justice-like-truth-journalism-indivisible/
Having done a ‘deep dive’ into the material available online - I’m of the firm view Harry and Megan Tooze were murdered by Jonathon Jones who went on to marry Harry and Megan’s daughter - Cheryl Tooze - now known as Cheryl Jones.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/jones/index.htm
It was Cheryl who ran the public campaign to overturn Jonathon Jones murder conviction.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/tenacious-fiancee-triumphs-as-her-lover-is-cleared-of-farmhouse-shotgun-killing-1306788.html
Will be interesting to see if David James Smith appears in the forthcoming Mindhouse TV docu series. He was involved in the BBC’s doc on the murder of Jill Dando, which apparently was made to mark the 20th anniversary of her death.
‘David has a close interest in criminal justice and served five years (2013-2018) as a Commissioner at The Criminal Cases Review Commission, appointed by HM The Queen to oversee investigations into miscarriages of justice. http://www.davidjamessmith.net/about/
Sounds like David James Smith’s voice in the Mindhouse trailer
‘…was he being truthful you know “did you do it or didn’t you”’ ?
And it sounds like he might well be referring to his prison interview with Bamber 🙄
And - if it is him - I suspect his speech at the Uni of Sussex on Bamber wasn’t a coincidence 🙄
His voice can be heard here at around 33:38 https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0003w40/the-murder-of-jill-dando
*I remain of the firm view sexual predator and stalker Barry George murdered Jill Dando
Pat Brown also did a video on this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrXccaA1b8
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Michelle Diskin Bates playing judge and jury ⬇️
Opinion of Michelle Diskin Bates on Julie Mugford
🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@jbcampaignltd
and
@UKChange
If her story was true she would be an accessory to murder. Under @JointEnterprise she would have been convicted of murder too, if she truly knew he was going to murder his family and didn’t do anything to help them.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1228048140772823040
*I remain of the firm view sexual predator and stalker Barry George murdered Jill Dando
Pat Brown also did a video on this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrXccaA1b8
Julie Mugford did not know Bamber was going to commit mass murder
How could she have known - he’d never murdered before
Barry George however was a sexual predator and stalker of women and had criminal convictions
And he and his sister had been estranged for around 12/13 years
‘For legal reasons, the jury was not told that George has spent convictions for attempted rape and indecent assault.
He was also accused of assaulting his ex-wife a few months into their short-lived marriage.
Thirteen women had given statements to the police saying George had stalked them and there was evidence he had pestered hundreds of others who lived close to his flat in Fulham, developing obsessions that led him to behave in a threatening and frightening manner.
He followed one victim home, telling her: "Now I know where you live."
Police discovered George had compiled lists with the addresses, descriptions, photographs and car registration numbers of almost 100 women. Princess Diana's was among them.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jul/03/jilldando.media5
What was Barry George capable of https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dUMFI8UhTDs
Some of the contents of Pat Brown’s video might be helpful to Michelle Diskin Bates https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrXccaA1b8
At around 34:00 Pat Brown also mentions Mark Williams Thomas and those stacks of boxes - worth a listen
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Chris Bews too by the looks of it
https://twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1441306910133612547
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Excerpts from the Scotsman’s article ‘The Bambers: Murder At The Farm is a real-life whodunnit‘
‘Building upon his desire to create “engrossing, complex, almost novelistic” multi-part documentaries as seen with projects like Netflix’s Making A Murderer and Conversations with a Killer: The Ted Bundy Tapes, Theroux says the pandemic proved an opportunity to reflect and reassess his aspirations.
“I think it heightened something,” he says of lockdown. “I’m still figuring out quite what the aftermath of that looks like for me, but I do think it made me prioritise differently… it’s sort of made me inclined to go even further towards being behind the scenes.”
https://www.scotsman.com/arts-and-culture/film-and-tv/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-is-a-real-life-whodunnit-3390930
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Telling the tale of The Bambers for Sky crime - 24th September 2021
’Telling the complex, tragic and compelling family story underpinning the case was key to our doc series, says director Lotte Gammon
The Bambers: Murder at the Farm, Sky Crime
Production company Mindhouse Productions
Commissioner Poppy Dixon
Length 4 x 60 minutes
TX 26 September, Sky Crime – also available on Sky Showcase and NOW
Executive producers Arron Fellows; Louis Theroux
Series director Lottie Gammon
Series producer Flo Barrow
Line producer Suzy Burnet
Archive producer James Hunt
Director of development Nancy Strang
Head of production Sophie Ardern
Post-house Molinare
I was immediately curious when executive producers Arron Fellows and Louis Theroux approached me about a series on the White House Farm murders. The case is one of the UK’s most notorious mass killings and occupies an unusual place in the UK justice system – a convicted murderer, on a full-term life sentence, who still protests his innocence.
There are already numerous books on the subject, and a successful drama series covering the investigation and trial of Jeremy Bamber, so our first question was whether the series could really bring anything new to the story.
It became clear that this couldn’t simply be a retrospective documentary – but one that continued up to the present day. Online forums continue to fervently debate the details of the case, and Bamber, supported by lawyers and a campaign group, has appealed against his conviction on a number of occasions.
I had come into the story cold – I knew very little aside from the sometimes quite outlandish headlines. But as soon as we started digging, I realised that there was a complex, tragic and compelling family story underpinning the case that needed space to breathe.
Sky had originally commissioned 3 x 45 minute programmes, but as our edit progressed and more contributors agreed to be interviewed, it became clear that the best way to really do the story and characters justice was to add a fourth episode. Sky too understood how rich the story was and we were delighted when they agreed.
We initially talked about using reconstruction– but it soon became clear that recreating an entire 1980s farm house was not realistic or particularly desirable, both creatively and financially.
There are detailed – and hugely distressing – crime scene photos. We debated whether we should use them as part of the series and felt it was important not to sanitise a crime like this. Equally we wanted to respect the victims and their relatives by not showing anything too graphic.
As a solution, we decided to make a model of the house as a way of allowing the audience to take in the crime scene and its details without compromising the dignity of the victims.
Our art director John Reynolds went to great lengths to make sure that the model was exact – going so far as counting the bricks on the front of the house and using the original floor plans made by the police. We wanted it to feel hand-made and have texture, but not cartoonish.
We eventually made six models of the interior and exterior of the house which each played specific roles in the series – interior models of the key crime scenes, top-down “birds eye view” models and one enormous 4x4m model of the outside of the farmhouse.
Shooting the models was a new challenge – we shot on a A7S III and used a mini motion control rig called the Syrp Genie which helped create smooth, flowing shots programmed via an iPad.
Unsurprisingly, archive is the backbone of our film. I’ll never forget the giddiness in our archive producer James Hunt’s voice when he told me he had discovered a box file filled with a press agency’s negatives of the Bamber case. Instead of a select group of photos readily available, we suddenly had access to 1500 - and it meant we could string a photographer’s rapid-fire shots together in sequences that almost feel like filmed footage.
Rather than shoot expensive and potentially quite cliched courtroom reconstructions, we found the original trial’s court sketch-artist Sian Frances who reproduced and added to her work from the time.
My tricks of the trade - Lottie Gammon
Prep your interviews as much as you can but let the real thing be a conversation, put your notes down
Making a single narrative over several episodes is hard, hang on to your editor
Opinions are powerful but find your neutral voices to guide you through the story
Value your production team, a great PM is worth their weight in gold
Find great creative collaborators (editors, composers, DoPs) and trust their advice.
Plan your best and worst case scenarios. Strategise for both. You’ll end up somewhere in the middle
Aside from the now-familiar problems of Covid on the shoot, we had one other key challenge. When I first spoke to our executive producer Arron Fellows about the project there was one small obstacle in the way – I was 12 weeks pregnant and due to give birth halfway through the production schedule. Incredibly, Mindhouse were very open to the idea of me working until I gave birth, taking a few months off, and then coming back to finish the series.
My then three-month-old daughter was even present at a crucial interview and later at the model shoot. This was the second project of mine in which Louis and Arron had taken a pregnancy in their stride - in 2018 we made a film together in the States (Louis Theroux: The Night In Question) when I was pregnant with my first child and was so unwell that Louis had to rush me around in a wheelchair and I ended up in the ER.
Throughout production, my rocks were my line producer Suzy Burnet, who made sure the schedule didn’t break me, and my series producer Flo Barrow who stepped in to do interviews when I wasn’t able to and oversaw the edits for episodes three and four. Having a baby mid-production is not something I’d take lightly but - if you are offered a job you really want to do - it shows it can be done.
Flo Barrow
Series producer
Jeremy Bamber’s continual assertions of innocence have kept this case uniquely in the media spotlight for 35 years. From the outset, we knew his name went hand in hand with strong and often passionately opposing opinions - we set out to secure voices from both sides of the divide.
As with any “true crime”, this is difficult and painful territory for those who have had to live through it – and for a community in a tiny Essex village which still endures ongoing notoriety. For that reason, several key contributors had previously never agreed to take part in any media and their first-hand testimony was a priority.
We worked hard to prove ourselves; we clearly laid out that our aim was not just to explore the original investigation but some of the hallmarks of the case since his conviction which had never been looked into before. It took months, and many attempts, to set up meetings with apprehensive contributors, not helped by and often delayed by the restrictive nature of the pandemic.
Building local contacts who introduced us to people was vital - as was social media and the electoral roll. Breakthroughs came from unexpected places – we found a prosecution witness in Melbourne, the owner of Bamber’s favourite Essex drinking hole in Brisbane and his best friend and confidante from the time in Auckland.
The pandemic intensified a lot of the challenges but there were some silver linings. The flexibility to interview on Zoom with an international crew meant we could interview these key contributors who had ended up further afield.
Closer to home, we followed some interesting leads. A tip off from a retired modelling agent led us to a photographer, David Thorpe, who took the iconic image of Jeremy Bamber’s sister, Sheila Caffell. The photo was splashed on every tabloid front page the day she died. We didn’t want to just use the photo but find the story behind it.
We also unearthed unique material, including from journalist David James Smith who offered us exclusive access to his recordings of an interview with Jeremy Bamber from 2010; and author Carol Ann Lee discovered that her Dictaphone surprisingly still had audio on it from meeting Sheila and June Bamber’s psychiatrist as part of research for her book, The Murders at White House Farm.
Some people declined to be interviewed – many for very understandable reasons. We also worked with Jeremy Bamber’s official Innocence Campaign for many months before they decided to withdraw from the series; they became convinced it would be biased against Jeremy, a man they passionately believe is innocent.
Yet the finished series contains friends, family, police, lawyers, journalists and pro-Bamber campaigners telling their story, many for the first time. I would say you cannot underestimate the time and patience needed to secure the trust of the right people. For us, it took a year. But it was worth it.
(Broadcastnow.co.uk)
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I communicated briefly with David James Smith in early 2019.
I don’t know if it was a coincidence when the CCRC removed the link to convicted/exonerated killer Michael O’Brien’s video they’d collaborated with him on, after I mentioned it to David but the link stopped working very soon after. (It’s still available to watch here https://wearestraightline.com/video/11-years-wrongly-imprisoned-michaels-story and via the CCRC’s Facebook page here https://en-gb.facebook.com/criminalcasesreview/posts/ccrc-weve-posted-a-new-ccrc-film-on-our-website-we-made-it-with-national-prison-/791665714290789/)
I didn’t know much about David James Smith at the time and certainly wasn’t aware of the following https://blackwatertown.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/how-to-make-a-comeback-from-being-burned-at-the-stake/ from 2010 but it would be interesting to know why he has always cited Bamber as never having been diagnosed as a psychopath.
David James Smith
‘A fascinating thing about him that I always cite, is that Jeremy Bamber has no diagnosis of being mentally ill or a psychopath. To all intents and purposes he is as normal as you and me. He charms people still and wins them over to his cause. He is a fascinating study of the essence of investigating miscarriages of justice. He is what it’s all about. The claim and counter claim, the obscuring of the truth, the complexity and ambiguity of the evidence, the lingering suggestion of police impropriety.
More excerpts here ⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg660808#msg660808
I’d also like to know how, when and why “Reader, I have no idea” morphed into “Reader you decide” ?
David James Smith
July 2021
’I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.
July 2010
‘I had said on the way in that I feared I would find him repulsive, but in the event, I found him all too human and understandable. Except for the part of him that I felt was hidden. The corner of his soul that carried the knowledge of what had really happened that night 25 years ago, and who really killed the family.
He knows the truth. And he is the only person in the world who does.
Was it Sheila? Was it Jeremy?
Reader, I have no idea.
http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-bamber-murders-and-by-dawn-they-were-all-dead-w[Name removed]sf7rphrf
July 2021 - by David James Smith and Ales Bellotti
‘Killer church warden Ben Field was no ordinary psychopath - as his chilling diaries show'
‘EXCLUSIVE: Gaslighting and manipulating his elderly lovers, evil Ben Field was jailed for murder in 2019. Here, crime writer David James Smith journeys into his dark mind
In his new book Let Us Prey, available on Audible, crime writer David James Smith journeys into his dark mind and the diary entries where he fantasised about smothering the entire neighbourhood.
‘One of the only journalists allowed to interview White House Farm killer Jeremy Bamber in prison, Smith here tells how Field is more "breathtakingly wicked" than any murderer he has ever covered.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-church-warden-ben-field-24581812
Has David James Smith not recognised Bamber’s ‘gaslighting and manipulating’ over these past 35 or so years and does he not consider Bamber to be ‘breathtakingly wicked’?
I don’t know if David James Smith is lacking in insight but one or two of his comments to me in 2019 set off alarm bells
Including what appears to have been feigned concern of me ‘getting into trouble’ for my views on sexual predator, stalker and convicted/exonerated killer Barry George
David James Smith may have been ‘following’ Michelle Diskin Bates on social media because he also mentioned she was looking for a good ‘defamation lawyer’
@)(++(*
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Better not keep changing his mind about which of them saw what. 8(8-))
Could have been down to the ‘illusionary truth effect’, stress, tiredness, not being used to giving interviews - there are lots of reasons why he could have been discombobulated during that one particular interview
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I don’t know if David James Smith is lacking in insight but one or two of his comments to me in 2019 set off alarm bells
Including what appears to have been feigned concern of me ‘getting into trouble’ for my views on sexual predator, stalker and convicted/exonerated killer Barry George
David James Smith may have been ‘following’ Michelle Diskin Bates on social media because he also mentioned she was looking for a good ‘defamation lawyer’
@)(++(*
I wonder if David James Smith contacted Mindhouse TV ?
‘We did get hold of several hours worth of archive material that hadn’t even heard before of Jeremy Bamber talking to the Sunday Times journalist David James Smith and so we have used that audio throughout the series as a way of putting across Jeremy Bambers point of view’ 🙄
https://twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1441402540600532994
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I wonder if David James Smith contacted Mindhouse TV ?
‘We did get hold of several hours worth of archive material that hadn’t even heard before of Jeremy Bamber talking to the Sunday Times journalist David James Smith and so we have used that audio throughout the series as a way of putting across Jeremy Bambers point of view’ 🙄
https://twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1441402540600532994
During David James Smith’s recent speech at Sussex university he stated,
‘My interview with Bamber was sanctioned, after a bit of a legal battle it must be said, by the Ministry of Justice.’
In Bamber’s letter dated 6th March 2010 to convicted fraudster Mike Teskowski (Who owns & runs http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php) Bamber mentions wanting to do ‘a piece with the Sunday Times guy David Smith’
Link to letter ⬇️
https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=211.msg2289#msg2289
Would be interested to know the exact date David James Smith first heard Jeremy Bamber wanted to organise a prison interview with him & to learn more about this alleged ‘bit of a legal battle’ with the ministry of justice and who approached who first?
According to David James Smiths Sunday times article dated 11th July 2010 he stated,
’It has taken months to reach this moment, and I have jumped through many hoops to make it happen, layer after layer of permissions have been necessary, up through the highest echelons of government.’
If the ‘Tuesday’ (Top of 2nd page here https://fliphtml5.com/mdtd/bfgq) referred to in David James Smith’s article was the 6th July 2010 & Bamber’s 1st mention of him wanting to interviewed by this ‘guy David Smith’ exactly 3 months before - then it would only have taken around 2 months or less to arrange? (http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf)
Unless there had been previous contact?
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I’d also be interested to learn how, as a journalist, David James Smith was seemingly allowed to take recording equipment into a Cat A prison in 2010 when Celia Sohpal and Charles Moffat from the Criminal cases review commission were not allowed to do the same in April 2013 when interviewing killer Simon Hall?
https://therealmrshspoofblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/ccrc-meeting.pdf
(Note Halls comment on page 2 ‘I took it out of the car and went to the garage for tools to open the locker’)
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Flo Barrow
Series producer
We also unearthed unique material, including from journalist David James Smith who offered us exclusive access to his recordings of an interview with Jeremy Bamber from 2010;
(Broadcastnow.co.uk)
What Flo Barrow appears to mean is either Mindhouse TV contacted David James Smith (Ex criminal cases review commissioner) or he contacted them 🙄
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Flo Barrow
Series producer
‘We also unearthed unique material, including from journalist David James Smith who offered us exclusive access to his recordings of an interview with Jeremy Bamber from 2010; and author Carol Ann Lee discovered that her Dictaphone surprisingly still had audio on it from meeting Sheila and June Bamber’s psychiatrist as part of research for her book, The Murders at White House Farm.
(Broadcastnow.co.uk)
‘Surprisingly’ ?
I suspect Carol Ann Lee kept everything - especially given the threats and intimidation she appeared to be subjected to
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On the blue forum, there is a link to an article from the website 'The Steeple Times' (never heard of it myself)....but apparently it's a report nabbed from a local Essex paper about a zoom meeting between some of Bamber's supporters banging on about his latest appeal to the CCRC.
https://www.thesteepletimes.com/the-fog/outside-jeremy-bamber/
Anyway at the end of the article there are 8 questions that the author of the article said Essex Police needed to answer...
But they are really easy to answer without police help, so I've reproduced the questions here, complete with factually correct answers.
So, it's all the same old same old...no new ground or anything like that. But for newbies stumbling across this stuff, it's still important to put the record straight.
The questions below in bold are all from the article...
What happened to a suicide note allegedly left by Sheila Caffell that was initially referenced by police and then disappeared?
There was no suicide note in the bible. June Bamber was known to make handwritten notes inspired by passages in the bible, and this is what the so-called 'suicide note' was.
It may be that the police were looking for a suicide note at the time, given that they initially blamed Sheila Caffell for the crimes, and they found a note made by June Bamber in her bible. But it wasn't, in actual fact, a suicide note at all.
Why did Sheila Caffell not have rigor mortis when officers discovered her body?
The pathologist only saw the bodies in the morgue rather than in situ, and all indications were that the individuals had similar levels of Rigor Mortis, all consistent with being killed between 10:30 at night and 3:30 the next morning. There is no evidence that contradicts this.
Why was blood still gaping from Miss Caffell’s body when it was found?
There are two sets of images for the gunshot wounds in Sheila Caffell's neck. One set depicts wet blood coming from the neck wounds, the other set depicts dry, cracked blood. The 'wet blood' images have been faked, probably around the years 2003-2005. Jeremy Bamber illegally published the fake wet blood images via the corrupt legal representative that represented him in the early 2000's (The career criminal, Giovanni Di Stefano).
Corrupt 'lawyer' Giovanni Di Stefano has admitted that there are two sets of images depicting the neck wounds, one fake set, one genuine set.
Why are there different accounts about how many bodies were discovered on the ground floor of the farmhouse?
The first firearms officer to enter the house around 7:30am, prior to that he peered through the window and saw a mop of flopped down, gray hair, the face not in view and the body obscured by the strange position it had been left in. He then said, from outside the house that the body appeared to be female, apparently dead. That got logged remotely as 'one dead female' Upon entering the house the same firearms officer corrected himself after seeing the body close up, and said 'one male, deceased'. That comment was logged as 'one dead male'.
As there wasn't time to fill in the blanks in such a stressful, fast moving event, the person writing this stuff down wrote 'one dead male', 'one dead female'. This was cleared up by the firearms officer in question, in statements and in court.
It is wrong to say there are differing accounts to this, and in fact there is only one account of what went on that night from all ten Firearms officers, all corroborating that there was only ever one body in the kitchen.
How could Jeremy Bamber be the killer if police officers repeatedly detected movement inside White House Farmhouse whilst he was stood with them outside?
Neither Jeremy Bamber or the police, reported any movement inside the farmhouse whilst they were positioned outside the house from the time they all arrived outside the farmhouse, until firearms officers broke into the house. None of Jeremy Bamber's witness statements or interviews talks about anyone seeing actual people moving around inside the farmhouse.
But, many years after the murders, Jeremy Bamber found a hand written document in amongst the evidence for his case (which he has access to in prison), that said firearms officers were talking to 'a person in the farm'. The person in question was Jeremy Bamber himself, and 'in the farm' refers to the grounds of the farm, rather than the actual farmhouse itself. White House Farm isn't just a farmhouse, the house was surrounded by a whole series of outhouses and other buildings. 'in the farm' means in the grounds of the farm, it does not mean inside the farmhouse.
When Firearms officers spoke to Jeremy Bamber 'in the farm', Bamber told them the story about Sheila's knowledge of guns (in reality Sheila had no knowledge of guns, later admitted by Bamber) and how his dad had phoned him to say she had gone crazy with the gun. So the firearms officers used a loudspeaker to try and speak to anyone still alive in the house. This was written down in note format as 'challenge made to persons in the house met with no response'
Jeremy Bamber has used these handwritten notes to create a fake story intended to make people believe that Sheila was still alive in the house whilst he was standing outside the house. The truth is that firearms officers were talking to Jeremy Bamber himself!
Why was the silencer supposedly used in the shootings not discovered immediately when police entered the residence?
when the SIO DCI 'Taff' Jones turned up on the scene and spoke to Bamber, and then saw the bodies in the house, he decided there and then, without any formal investigation, that Sheila Caffell committed the crimes, then killed herself. He immediately wrapped up the investigation, instructing officers there was no need to search the house or preserve any evidence. So no proper search of the house was conducted.
It was admitted by the police at court a year later that the gun cupboard (where the silencer was eventually found) wasn't searched, and that this was a mistake not to carry out a search.
But this initial incompetence by the police favoured Jeremy Bamber, because as far as the police were concerned, and without conducting any investigation whatsoever, he was declared innocent. So Bamber benefited hugely from the police not conducting a proper search.
Why did scratch marks supposedly made in the kitchen of the house by that silencer not appear in the first photographs taken at the crime scene? How were they actually made in order that they appeared in later imagery?
The scratch marks made by the silencer were made on the underside of the mantelshelf, so when you looked at the mantelshelf from head height, which is how the crime scene photos were taken, the scratch marks couldn't be seen. You would have had to have crouched down and looked upwards to see the scratch marks on the underside of the mantelshelf.
There was a scratch mark very close to the main set of scratches that was on the vertical section of red surround, therefore directly facing the crime scene photographer, and that scratch mark was clearly picked up in the initial crime scene photos, and the nature of that scratch mark is identical with the scratch marks made on the underside of the mantelshelf. So some of the scratch marks were picked up in the original crime scene photos.
How could Jeremy Bamber be the killer if he made a phone call from his Goldhanger home 3.5 miles away moments after his father had called police from White House Farmhouse to say that his daughter had “gone berserk” with a gun?
Jeremy Bamber did make a phone call to the police, however, his father, Nevill Bamber, did not call the police that night. There is no evidence to support this.
The document that Jeremy says 'proves' Nevill Bamber called the police that night, is a document that clearly states that the message in the document was sent from PC West, not Nevill Bamber. PC West was on duty that night at Chelmsford Police station and did receive a call from Jeremy Bamber, but did not receive a call from Nevill Bamber.
On the document there is a box labelled 'sender' which is filled in with the name PC West (1990), and there is a box labelled 'recipient' which contains the name MB (6), who was the civilian on duty at HQIR which is the incident room where 999 calls go to.
So the document is an internal document sent from one employee to another, that describes the events of the night, all the way from Jeremy Bamber's initial phone call to Chelmsford police station, all the way up to 5 in the morning, with no mention whatsoever of Nevill Bamber having made a call to the police station.
Bamber has used the document to create a fake story about Nevill Bamber calling the police.
Good stuff Colsville.
Matthew Steeples and the Steeple times isn't the first to publish JB/CT propaganda without any kind of scrutiny or apparent knowledge of the history of the case but I wonder if it would even be a story if they did?
I have seen guilters arguing that JB had the time to "make both calls" which just proves how effective the mythologising and misrepresentation can be, even among sceptics.
With Matthew Steeples, Yvonne Hartley & Philip Walker
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M
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With Matthew Steeples, Yvonne Hartley & Philip Walker
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M)
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Why no Pat Brown? ?8)@)-)
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With Matthew Steeples, Yvonne Hartley & Philip Walker
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M
@)(++(*
Why no Pat Brown? ?8)@)-)
What a pair https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cp7HTChP_8I *&^^&
Re Shaun Attwood #Daddygate https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/daddygate
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What a pair https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cp7HTChP_8I (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cp7HTChP_8I) *&^^&
Re Shaun Attwood #Daddygate https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/daddygate (https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/daddygate)
Steeples looks and talks like he's either just got up or needs a good sleep.
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Steeples looks and talks like he's either just got up or needs a good sleep.
He looks and sounds creepy
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8113127/Tamara-Ecclestone-screams-like-banshee-blogger-insulted-father-Bernie-row.html
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He looks and sounds creepy
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8113127/Tamara-Ecclestone-screams-like-banshee-blogger-insulted-father-Bernie-row.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8113127/Tamara-Ecclestone-screams-like-banshee-blogger-insulted-father-Bernie-row.html)
See what happens when a couple of clueless numpties are let free rein on the case. *%87
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Flo Barrow
Series producer
‘Building local contacts who introduced us to people was vital - as was social media and the electoral roll. Breakthroughs came from unexpected places – we found a prosecution witness in Melbourne, the owner of Bamber’s favourite Essex drinking hole in Brisbane and his best friend and confidante from the time in Auckland.(Broadcastnow.co.uk)
Will Mindhouse be omitting the fact Bamber and Brett Collins were also lovers ?
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With Matthew Steeples, Yvonne Hartley & Philip Walker
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M
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My mistake
omitted Shaun Attwood
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
White House Farm: Shaun Attwood & Matthew Steeples, with campaigners Yvonne Hartley & Philip Walker...
Monday 27th September at 6pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/1441457567817895936?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
@)(++(*
-
Michelle Diskin Bates playing judge and jury ⬇️
Julie Mugford did not know Bamber was going to commit mass murder
How could she have known - he’d never murdered before
Barry George however was a sexual predator and stalker of women and had criminal convictions
And he and his sister had been estranged for around 12/13 years
‘For legal reasons, the jury was not told that George has spent convictions for attempted rape and indecent assault.
He was also accused of assaulting his ex-wife a few months into their short-lived marriage.
Thirteen women had given statements to the police saying George had stalked them and there was evidence he had pestered hundreds of others who lived close to his flat in Fulham, developing obsessions that led him to behave in a threatening and frightening manner.
He followed one victim home, telling her: "Now I know where you live."
Police discovered George had compiled lists with the addresses, descriptions, photographs and car registration numbers of almost 100 women. Princess Diana's was among them.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jul/03/jilldando.media5
What was Barry George capable of https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dUMFI8UhTDs
Some of the contents of Pat Brown’s video might be helpful to Michelle Diskin Bates https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrXccaA1b8
At around 34:00 Pat Brown also mentions Mark Williams Thomas and those stacks of boxes - worth a listen
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@ForKevern
and
@JENGbA
Yep, even me… we’re still battling for B because of his problems.
10:33 am · 24 Sep 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1441334930152165387
*&^^&
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Looks like her... along with Peter Sutherst, some other supporter, David Boutflour, Brett Collins and a cheapo Blue Peter WHF model made from cardboard, sticky-backed plastic and plasticine...
Yep looks like Nevill, June, Sheila, Nicolas and Daniel have been reduced to lumps of plasticine
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Telling the tale of The Bambers for Sky crime - 24th September 2021
’Telling the complex, tragic and compelling family story underpinning the case was key to our doc series, says director Lotte Gammon
The Bambers: Murder at the Farm, Sky Crime
Production company Mindhouse Productions
Commissioner Poppy Dixon
Length 4 x 60 minutes
TX 26 September, Sky Crime – also available on Sky Showcase and NOW
Executive producers Arron Fellows; Louis Theroux
Series director Lottie Gammon
Series producer Flo Barrow
Line producer Suzy Burnet
Archive producer James Hunt
Director of development Nancy Strang
Head of production Sophie Ardern
Post-house Molinare
I was immediately curious when executive producers Arron Fellows and Louis Theroux approached me about a series on the White House Farm murders. The case is one of the UK’s most notorious mass killings and occupies an unusual place in the UK justice system – a convicted murderer, on a full-term life sentence, who still protests his innocence.
There are already numerous books on the subject, and a successful drama series covering the investigation and trial of Jeremy Bamber, so our first question was whether the series could really bring anything new to the story.
It became clear that this couldn’t simply be a retrospective documentary – but one that continued up to the present day. Online forums continue to fervently debate the details of the case, and Bamber, supported by lawyers and a campaign group, has appealed against his conviction on a number of occasions.
I had come into the story cold - I knew very little aside from the sometimes quite outlandish headlines. But as soon as we started digging, I realised that there was a complex, tragic and compelling family story underpinning the case that needed space to breathe.
(Broadcastnow.co.uk)
Was this a good idea?
-
With Matthew Steeples, Yvonne Hartley & Philip Walker
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M
@)(++(*
Matthew Steeple is seemingly a supporter of psychopathic killer Mark Alexander http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=98.0
And said of Shaun Attwood
“I have followed Shaun Attwood’s honest to its core YouTube channel…”
https://www.thesteepletimes.com/movers-shakers/matthew-steeples-attwood/?amp
-
Tamanna Rahman
@tamannarahman
Looking forward to this coming out - had a tiny role helping out on
@lotshots
latest piece of genius. Did he do it? Only one man knows.
Quote Tweet
Mindhouse Productions
@MindhouseTV
· Sep 12
The Bambers: Murder At The Farm comes to Sky Crime on Sunday 26th September. Also available on Sky Showcase and Now TV. Series Directed by Lottie Gammon, Series Produced by Flo Barrow and Executive Produced by @ArronFellows and @louistheroux.
Embedded video
0:40
54K views
2:54 PM · Sep 13, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/tamannarahman/status/1437414343331794953
Tamanna Rahman
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p094ptv3/musics-dirty-secrets-women-fight-back
Sima Kotecha
@sima_kotecha
A man wrongly convicted of murder -
@areporter
spent 12 yrs behind bars before his conviction was quashed. Brave, resilient, a fighter ..
Embedded video
0:52
787 views
10:16 AM · Aug 26, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
Tamanna Rahman
@tamannarahman
Replying to
@sima_kotecha
and
@areporter
Shame the BBC let Raphael go in the bonfire of reporters a few years ago.
10:38 AM · Aug 26, 2020·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/sima_kotecha/status/1298549797419458561
In July 2000 the Court of Appeal judges - Lord Justice Mantell, Mr Justice Blofeld and Mrs Justice Rafferty - concluded in the case of the so called M25 Three; namely Michael George David, Raphael George Rowe & Randolph Egbert Johnson:
‘In our view the case against all three appellants was formidable. The evidence against Rowe on counts 9, 10 and 11 was overwhelming’
&
‘For the better understanding of those who have listened to this judgment and of those who may report it hereafter this is not a finding of innocence, far from it.’
July 2000 Court of Appeal judgment ⬇️
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/Rowe/index.htm
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SYNOPSIS
From Mindhouse Productions comes a forensic look at a complex case that remains in the public eye even after 35 years.
On 7th August 1985, local police entered a secluded Essex farmhouse to find five dead bodies —a young mother Sheila Caffell, her twin sons, and her parents. They’d been shot and killed. Initially it appeared to be the scene of a tragic murder-suicide committed by the troubled mother, Sheila. But fresh evidence would emerge to put Sheila’s brother Jeremy Bamber firmly in the frame. Arrested, charged, and convicted of all five murders, he was sent to prison for life. However, for the last 35 years, Bamber has been fighting his conviction from his maximum-security prison cell, consistently maintaining his innocence.
With access to previously unheard audio tapes of Jeremy Bamber, The Bambers: Murder at the Farm will use first-hand testimony and unseen archive footage to explore evidence that has emerged since the original trial and to re-examine the shocking events at White House Farm.
CREDITS
Executive Producers: Louis Theroux, Arron Fellows
Series Producer: Flo Barrow
Line Producer: Suzy Burnet
Composer: Mat Davidson
Editors: David Hill (Ep1,2),Nadeem Khan (3),
Toby Clarkson/Dan Ablett (4)
DoP: Steve Robinson
Model House DoP: Matthias Pilz
Art Director: John Reynolds
Model maker: Oliver Arnell Argles
REVIEWS
'I’ve seen three episodes now, and it’s certainly a gripping story, told with the right balance of intrigue and sensitivity…With every layer the documentary peels away, the Bambers become more fascinating.'
- The Independent
https://lottiegammon.co.uk/films/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm/
Why has Lottie Gammon ghosted the names of Nevill, June, Nicholas and Daniel from her synopsis ?
-
What happened to the Daily Mails 28th January 2011 article headed,
‘Could these photographs clear mulitple murderer jeremy bamber at his third appeal’ ?
-
What happened to the Daily Mails 28th January 2011 article headed,
‘Could these photographs clear mulitple murderer jeremy bamber at his third appeal’ ?
This one?...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351329/Could-photographs-clear-multiple-murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-appeal.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351329/Could-photographs-clear-multiple-murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-appeal.html)
-
This one?...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351329/Could-photographs-clear-multiple-murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-appeal.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351329/Could-photographs-clear-multiple-murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-appeal.html)
It works now thanks
-
SYNOPSIS
From Mindhouse Productions comes a forensic look at a complex case that remains in the public eye even after 35 years.
On 7th August 1985, local police entered a secluded Essex farmhouse to find five dead bodies —a young mother Sheila Caffell, her twin sons, and her parents. They’d been shot and killed. Initially it appeared to be the scene of a tragic murder-suicide committed by the troubled mother, Sheila. But fresh evidence would emerge to put Sheila’s brother Jeremy Bamber firmly in the frame. Arrested, charged, and convicted of all five murders, he was sent to prison for life. However, for the last 35 years, Bamber has been fighting his conviction from his maximum-security prison cell, consistently maintaining his innocence.
With access to previously unheard audio tapes of Jeremy Bamber, The Bambers: Murder at the Farm will use first-hand testimony and unseen archive footage to explore evidence that has emerged since the original trial and to re-examine the shocking events at White House Farm.
Is this it?
An interview with David James Smith which we already know Bamber told Mike Teskowski needed ‘guiding and controlling’ 🙄
‘I would love for you to let him have access to certain documents. Clearly he’ll need guiding and controlling to some extent - so it’s about showing him all the things we’ve/you’ve discovered over the past 8 years.
https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=211.msg2289#msg2289
-
Is this it?
An interview with David James Smith which we already know Bamber told Mike Teskowski needed ‘guiding and controlling’ 🙄
‘I would love for you to let him have access to certain documents. Clearly he’ll need guiding and controlling to some extent - so it’s about showing him all the things we’ve/you’ve discovered over the past 8 years.
https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=211.msg2289#msg2289
Does anyone know if David James Smith passed his recorded prison interview of Bamber to the CCRC at anytime?
-
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
Rightwards arrowJeremy Bamber Campaign Zoom meetingLeftwards arrow
Wed 29th Sept 7pm
Dr Dennis Eady talks about his own experiences with the CCRC and why Jeremy is a political prisoner
Presentation & question time
Join the #JeremyBamber Justice Group to attend https://facebook.com/groups/263614995639/… #WhiteHouseFarm
Image
Image
Image
1:30 pm · 25 Sep 2021·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/1441741800071307277
@)(++(*
-
Flo Barrow
Series producer
We also unearthed unique material, including from journalist David James Smith who offered us exclusive access to his recordings of an interview with Jeremy Bamber from 2010; and author Carol Ann Lee discovered that her Dictaphone surprisingly still had audio on it from meeting Sheila and June Bamber’s psychiatrist as part of research for her book, The Murders at White House Farm.
(Broadcastnow.co.uk)
That reads like David James Smith contacted Mindhouse?
-
Lottie Gammon refers to using David James Smith’s audio of the interview ‘as a way of putting across Jeremy Bamber’s point of view’
https://twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1441402540600532994
-
That reads like David James Smith contacted Mindhouse?
Interestingly David James Smith omits to mention Virginia or Anji Greaves in his 2010 article for the Sunday times
Flip pdf here https://fliphtml5.com/mdtd/bfgq/basic
He states,
‘While Bamber began living it large after the killings, spending money of holidays, meals and drinks for him and his girlfriend, 21-year-old Julie Mugford, and other friends, his relatives - Ann, David and their father, Robert - quickly became suspicious,
He goes on,
‘’Bamber’s relationship with Mugford came under strain and they split up. A month after the killings, Mugford was having a heart-to-heart with a girlfriend, Lizzie Rimmington, who told her what a rogue Jeremy was, as he had slept with her while he was with Mugford.
Why does David James Smith choose to omit Virginia Greaves?
‘Tears again welled in his eyes as he said he had not deserved what she had done to him. “She should never have gone to the police, but she didn’t know what she was doing. She didn’t realise the consequences of making those allegations and starting the ball rolling.”
He believes once she had started she couldn’t stop and had to keep the lies going. Of course he calls them lies but the jury seems to have accepted them as the truth.
“I’ve lived with people for 25 years now who have killed people and attacked people and done awful, awful things for so little. Because peoples emotions when you’re talking about love… Julie had always said to me, if you sleep with Lizzie, I’ll kill you”.
What about Virginia Greaves?
-
Interestingly David James Smith omits to mention Virginia or Anji Greaves in his 2010 article for the Sunday times
Flip pdf here https://fliphtml5.com/mdtd/bfgq/basic
He states,
‘While Bamber began living it large after the killings, spending money of holidays, meals and drinks for him and his girlfriend, 21-year-old Julie Mugford, and other friends, his relatives - Ann, David and their father, Robert - quickly became suspicious,
He goes on,
‘’Bamber’s relationship with Mugford came under strain and they split up. A month after the killings, Mugford was having a heart-to-heart with a girlfriend, Lizzie Rimmington, who told her what a rogue Jeremy was, as he had slept with her while he was with Mugford.
Why does David James Smith choose to omit Virginia Greaves?
‘Tears again welled in his eyes as he said he had not deserved what she had done to him. “She should never have gone to the police, but she didn’t know what she was doing. She didn’t realise the consequences of making those allegations and starting the ball rolling.”
He believes once she had started she couldn’t stop and had to keep the lies going. Of course he calls them lies but the jury seems to have accepted them as the truth.
“I’ve lived with people for 25 years now who have killed people and attacked people and done awful, awful things for so little. Because peoples emotions when you’re talking about love… Julie had always said to me, if you sleep with Lizzie, I’ll kill you”.
What about Virginia Greaves?
Why didn’t David James Smith factor in any of this ⬇️ for example
Journalist Roger Wilkes stated in his book ‘Blood Relations’
‘Marsden said that he had visited Jeremy at his cottage the previous Thursday night. Brett Collins had cooked them a chicken dinner and the three had then repaired to the Caribbean Cottage at Burnham for drinks. Jeremy had announced that he and Julie had split up the previous weekend. While he didn't give a specific reason, Marsden had the impression that Julie had disliked Brett Collins. In any case, Jeremy added, he now had a new girlfriend, Virginia Greaves, who used to go out with Mike Deckers of the Frog and Beans. Jeremy also told Charles Marsden that he and Brett were going to sell Bourtree Cottage and move to Sheila's flat in Maida Vale. Virginia would move in too, Jeremy added.
-
Excerpt by David James Smith during a speech given at the University of Sussex Crime Research Centre (CRC) Annual Public Lecture on Wednesday 28 July 2021 on mass murderer and child killer Jeremy Bamber
‘A fascinating thing about him that I always cite, is that Jeremy Bamber has no diagnosis of being mentally ill or a psychopath. To all intents and purposes he is as normal as you and me. He charms people still and wins them over to his cause. He is a fascinating study of the essence of investigating miscarriages of justice. He is what it’s all about. The claim and counter claim, the obscuring of the truth, the complexity and ambiguity of the evidence, the lingering suggestion of police impropriety.http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents
Why does David James Smith ‘always cite’ this when it’s not true?
Carol Ann Lee - Mail on Sunday - 11th July 2015
‘….the psychiatrist engaged by Bamber’s defence team said that his very real belief that he had not committed the murders was a prime reason for diagnosing him as a psychopath.’
‘If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber.’
David James Smith worked for the CCRC reviewing Criminal convictions.
If he’s wrong on this what else has he been wrong on?
‘David has a close interest in criminal justice and served five years (2013-2018) as a Commissioner at The Criminal Cases Review Commission, appointed by HM The Queen to oversee investigations into miscarriages of justice. http://www.davidjamessmith.net/about/
I communicated briefly with David James Smith in early 2019.
I don’t know if it was a coincidence when the CCRC removed the link to convicted/exonerated killer Michael O’Brien’s video they’d collaborated with him on, after I mentioned it to David but the link stopped working very soon after. (It’s still available to watch here https://wearestraightline.com/video/11-years-wrongly-imprisoned-michaels-story and via the CCRC’s Facebook page here https://en-gb.facebook.com/criminalcasesreview/posts/ccrc-weve-posted-a-new-ccrc-film-on-our-website-we-made-it-with-national-prison-/791665714290789/)
I didn’t know much about David James Smith at the time and certainly wasn’t aware of the following https://blackwatertown.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/how-to-make-a-comeback-from-being-burned-at-the-stake/ from 2010 but it would be interesting to know why he has always cited Bamber as never having been diagnosed as a psychopath.
‘Killer church warden Ben Field was no ordinary psychopath - as his chilling diaries show'
‘EXCLUSIVE: Gaslighting and manipulating his elderly lovers, evil Ben Field was jailed for murder in 2019. Here, crime writer David James Smith journeys into his dark mind
In his new book Let Us Prey, available on Audible, crime writer David James Smith journeys into his dark mind and the diary entries where he fantasised about smothering the entire neighbourhood.
‘One of the only journalists allowed to interview White House Farm killer Jeremy Bamber in prison, Smith here tells how Field is more "breathtakingly wicked" than any murderer he has ever covered.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-church-warden-ben-field-24581812
Has David James Smith not recognised Bamber’s ‘gaslighting and manipulating’ over these past 35 or so years and does he not consider Bamber to be ‘breathtakingly wicked’?
What does David James Smith mean by ‘no ordinary psychopath’?
How would he describe an ‘ordinary psychopath’ ?
And who does David James Smith view to be ‘an ordinary psychopath’?
The following are excerpts taken from David James Smiths July 2021 article for the Mirror on killer Ben Field
‘Gaslighting and manipulating’ his ‘lovers’
‘deceived lovers in a twisted campaign of lies’
‘duped into a fake relationship’
‘before drugging him with a cocktail of pills’
‘admitted entering into a false love affair’
‘sick games’
‘String of lovers’
‘He had a lot of sex with a lot of different people - quite a few of whom he claimed to be in love with, at the same time.’
‘priming him with drugs and alcohol’
‘cruel humiliation’
‘gaslighting and conning her at every step’
‘pretending to love her when he really felt nothing towards her’
‘You might think Field was motivated by money, but I would say that was wrong.
He was driven by the bloodless sport of malice and degradation that he inflicted on those two old people who fell for him, for the person they thought he was.’
‘Field tricked them. He tricked everyone around him.’
‘They thought he was charming and likeable, as well as very witty and clever, and found it almost unbelievable when they heard he was suspected of murder.’
‘Incapable of ordinary human emotions such as empathy, he observed those qualities in others and copied them for himself. He was all a pretence.’
‘He studied Machiavelli and did things, he said, because he could, because it pleased him to outsmart others and because he derived pleasure in inflicting cruelty and humiliation.’
‘He was in relationships with Lara Busby and Nina Eriksen-Grey during the same period, and had one-off sex with various men he met on Craig’s List and Grindr.’
Does David James Smith really not recognise any of the above in executioner, child killer and sexual predator Bamber?
Further excerpts by David James Smith
‘I have met and written about many murderers - covering the deaths of James Bulger and Jill Dando, and interviewing White House Farm killer Jeremy Bamber in prison.
Yet I have never come across anyone quite as breathtakingly wicked as Ben Field.’
‘His parents attended much of the trial and sometimes sat gripping each other’s hands as fresh horrors unfolded. His mother bowed her head in evident shame.
He was not the son she thought he was.‘
-
See what happens when a couple of clueless numpties are let free rein on the case. *%87
Peter Tatchell has also been interviewed by Mindhouse TV
https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4
-
The following are excerpts taken from David James Smiths July 2021 article for the Mirror on killer Ben Field
‘Gaslighting and manipulating’ his ‘lovers’
‘deceived lovers in a twisted campaign of lies’
‘duped into a fake relationship’
‘before drugging him with a cocktail of pills’
I wouldn’t describe the girl from the Chequers public house as a ‘lover’ of Bamber’s
And I wouldn’t describe Julie Mugford as Bamber’s ‘lover’ either - although at the time she may have thought she was in a monogamous girlfriend/boyfriend type relationship
Both women were victims - Julie was ‘duped into a fake relationship’ and it would appear from very early in the relationship Bamber ‘deceived’ her ‘in a twisted campaign of lies’
Bamber’s ‘gaslighting and manipulating’ is evident between Virginia Greaves and Julie, as well as Liz Rimmimgton - who Bamber slept with behind Julies back
Liz Rimmington and Virginia Greaves were also Bamber’s victims
David James Smith only mentions Liz Rimmimgton by name in his 2010 Sunday times article - but there were others (Virginia Greaves was one & Brett Collins another)
‘’Bamber’s relationship with Mugford came under strain and they split up. A month after the killings, Mugford was having a heart-to-heart with a girlfriend, Lizzie Rimmington, who told her what a rogue Jeremy was, as he had slept with her while he was with Mugford.
The relationship was clearly already ‘under strain’ (A great deal of it) well before Bamber committed mass murder.
Why did David James Smith seemingly attempt to minimise this in his published Sunday Times article?
Bamber was already displaying his aggression and violent streak towards Julie - like for example when he smashed the door in after Julie confronted him about the incident involving the girl from the Chequers public house
David James Smith stated,
‘Bamber’s relationship with Mugford came under strain and they split up’
But it wasn’t as black and white as David James Smith appeared to want us to believe
Bamber was giving Julie mixed messages - the note he sent her whilst on remand in prison was just one example of this - he was ‘gaslighting and conning her at every step’
and from day one
It’s what psychopaths like him do
-
Lottie Gammon refers to using David James Smith’s audio of the interview ‘as a way of putting across Jeremy Bamber’s point of view’
https://twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1441402540600532994
Essex news only put out this one snippet from Lottie Gammon on David James Smith and already - from this - lies are being told by omission
Lottie Gammon describes David James Smith as the ‘Sunday times journalist’
No mention of him having been a CCRC* commissioner between 2013 and 2018
Although this fact may get mentioned in the forthcoming docu series
*The CCRC referred the murder conviction of actually, factually sadistic killer Simon Hall to the Court of Appeal (CoA) in 2009
How many other actually, factually guilty killers had their murder convictions referred by the CCRC to the CoA and had their murder conviction overturned on technicalities both before and after Hall?
How many cases/convictions was David James Smith involved with at the CCRC and what were the names of each of the cases/convictions he worked on?
Was David James Smith ever involved in anyway with the Dwaine George* case/conviction ?
⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9315.msg560231#msg560231
⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9318.msg572949#msg572949
*David McCorkle was Dwaine George’s lawyer - he was also Simon Hall’s and back in 2012 McCorkle helped Hall fudge his Guittard application for an early move to open prison conditions
-
https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4 (https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4)
1. Chris Bews obviously, but looking worryingly like Tesko in front of his Welsh Dresser...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1BWtxcrzc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1BWtxcrzc)
2. ?
3. A journalist from some red top... can't think which one though?
4. Which internet sleuths support him?!!! *%87 Only Holy Godhead as far as I'm aware.
-
https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4 (https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4)
1. Chris Bews obviously, but looking worryingly like Tesko in front of his Welsh Dresser...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1BWtxcrzc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1BWtxcrzc)
Mike Teskowski (aka Tesko) is like a chameleon
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_mE4NTLVoM
@)(++(*
-
https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4 (https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4)
1. Chris Bews obviously, but looking worryingly like Tesko in front of his Welsh Dresser...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1BWtxcrzc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1BWtxcrzc)
2. ?
3. A journalist from some red top... can't think which one though?
That’s not Kieron Saunders is it?
-
https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4 (https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4)
1. Chris Bews obviously, but looking worryingly like Tesko in front of his Welsh Dresser...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1BWtxcrzc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1BWtxcrzc)
2. ?.
Could 2 be Sheila Caffell’s friend?
-
https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4
4. Which internet sleuths support him?!!! *%87 Only Holy Godhead as far as I'm aware.
Are they describing Poppy Ann Miller as an ‘internet sleuth’ ?
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I’ve no idea who the females are in these photos https://www.instagram.com/stories/mindhousetv/2671186432586973361/?hl=en
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https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4 (https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4)
4. Which internet sleuths support him?!!! *%87 Only Holy Godhead as far as I'm aware.
Godhead?
Did you mean Goodhead?
David on blue met Holly apparently in a pub so he’ll know if she’s one of the so called ‘internet sleuths’
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I’ve no idea who the females are in these photos https://www.instagram.com/stories/mindhousetv/2671186432586973361/?hl=en
Lorraine Hastings is the name of one of them
She apparently started working at Osea Road caravan park in 2016 and became interested in the case from there
https://www.maldonandburnhamstandard.co.uk/news/11830777.were-your-community-and-were-behind-you-residents-declare-support-for-woman-attacked-in-underpass/
Wonder how she feels about the girl from the Chequers public house ?
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/louis-theroux-releases-new-crime-25074729.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Mel King from Essex live ⬇️
https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/jeremy-bamber-louis-theroux-left-5971753.amp?__twitter_impression=true
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Lorraine Hastings is the name of one of them
She apparently started working at Osea Road caravan park in 2016 and became interested in the case from there
https://www.maldonandburnhamstandard.co.uk/news/11830777.were-your-community-and-were-behind-you-residents-declare-support-for-woman-attacked-in-underpass/
Wonder how she feels about the girl from the Chequers public house ?
Mindhouse TV have used Lorraine Hastings to start the first episode of their 4 part docu series
They’ve got her driving around in her car giving commentary - similar to what Stephen Bennett & co did with Sandra Lean for their channel 5 TV show on sadistic killer Luke Mitchell
Next up is David James Smith
‘Jeremy Bamber was ‘like ageing accountant, not a killer’
JEREMY Bamber is more like an "ageing accountant" than a mass murderer, according to a crime author and journalist, who interviewed the killer in prison.
https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1496769/jeremy-bamber-sky-crime-series
He says at the beginning of the first episode of the 4 series docu series he doesn’t know if other journalists have visited Bamber in prison
“I don’t know if other people have gone to visit him as journalists but I had an official visit in twenty ten and I was there first and then he suddenly appeared through a locked door accompanied by two prison officers’
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Poppy Ann Miller
’I live a few miles from White House Farm where Jeremy was raised by his adoptive parents Nevill and June Bamber. Sheila, his adoptive sister arrived a few years later.
I still don’t know what Poppy Ann Miller meant when she stated,
‘Sheila, his adoptive sister arrived a few years later’
?
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I did wonder if Louis Theroux was considering a second series - given his 4 parter was the first series
‘While Theroux believes there's more to the case, he would only consider a follow-up to Murder at the Farm if Jeremy Bamber's girlfriend at the time, Julie Mugford, wanted to be involved..
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/true-crime/louis-theroux-murder-at-the-farm-bamber-case-newsupdate/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
‘Case’ or campaign ?
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Looks like her... along with Peter Sutherst, some other supporter, David Boutflour, Brett Collins and a cheapo Blue Peter WHF model made from cardboard, sticky-backed plastic and plasticine...
Looks like you confused Malcolm Fletcher with Peter Sutherst
And we were both wrong about it being Poppy Ann Miller
It’s Tora Tomkinson
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Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
"I can honestly say to you Jeremy is a friend, he's a descent guy, and he would not have done this crime. He could not have done this crime"
@michael47478285
MOJ victim Michael O'Brien spent 7 years in prison with #JeremyBamber
Podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/presentation-by-michael-obrien/id1555731881?i=1000536227757…
#WhiteHouseFarm
Image
12:14 pm · 26 Sep 2021·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/1442085080764088325
Michael O’Brien may have a letter from the Ex Chief Constable of South Wales police stating,
“I am happy to reinforce for the public that South Wales Police recognises Mr O’Brien as the subject of a wrongful conviction arising from a miscarriage of justice.”
But this is not proof O’Brien didn’t murder Philip Saunders - alongside his co-Defendants Darren Hall and Ellis Sherwood.
I’m of the view he’s a murderer
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Carol Ann Lee appears to be under the impression the caravan burglary was the equal responsibility of Bamber and Julie Mugford?
I’m of the similar opinion to Julies friend - in that there was manipulation involved by Bamber
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Looks like you confused Malcolm Fletcher with Peter Sutherst
And we were both wrong about it being Poppy Ann Miller
It’s Tora Tomkinson
Even though Peter Sutherst died in June 2019, it sounded just like his voice at 00:18 onwards - "But that didn't meant to me he was responsible for murdering the whole of his family". It might just be an old interview...
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/louis-theroux-releases-new-crime-25074729 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/louis-theroux-releases-new-crime-25074729)
Peter Sutherst Obit...
https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/people/obituary-peter-sutherst-put-scouting-luton-spotlight-965272 (https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/people/obituary-peter-sutherst-put-scouting-luton-spotlight-965272)
And I'm sure that's a windblown Poppy Ann Miller at the sea wall (attached), not Tora T (as she doesn't live in Essex)...
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Even though Peter Sutherst died in June 2019, it sounded just like his voice at 00:18 onwards - "But that didn't meant to me he was responsible for murdering the whole of his family". It might just be an old interview...
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/louis-theroux-releases-new-crime-25074729 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/louis-theroux-releases-new-crime-25074729)
Peter Sutherst Obit...
https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/people/obituary-peter-sutherst-put-scouting-luton-spotlight-965272 (https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/people/obituary-peter-sutherst-put-scouting-luton-spotlight-965272)
Arh okay
That’s the voice of David James Smith - no it wasn’t lol - Don’t mind me
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And I'm sure that's a windblown Poppy Ann Miller at the sea wall (attached), not Tora T (as she doesn't live in Essex)...
It’s Tora T
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“On the steps of Morshead Mansions, Brett Collins told the Evening Standard that Jeremy maintained his innocence ‘and I believe him. There’s no love lost between Jeremy and his immediate relatives. But his friends, including his girlfriend Angela, will be standing by him and we hope that the truth will finally prevail in what is a most confusing series of events.’ He flew back to New Zealand on 3rd November 1985, following proceedings from afar.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=jeremy+bamber+rodney+brown+anji&source=bl&ots=h8PnOFTeYj&sig=ACfU3U25vYTa3CZuagVZ6JIVTldkpqFrCQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC6MnRs4TpAhWJXhUIHQ3YDioQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20rodney%20brown%20anji&f=false
Why did Brett Collins choose to pretend Angela was Bamber’s girlfriend and not Virginia?
Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex* I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
-
Arh okay
That’s the voice of David James Smith - no it wasn’t lol - Don’t mind me
Peter Sutherst speaking at 2:44 mins in...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/feb/21/jeremy-bamber-murder-conviction-doubt (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/feb/21/jeremy-bamber-murder-conviction-doubt)
It’s Tora T
How do you know it's Tora T?
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According to Bamber - in 1991 - around a year into his relationship with Aunt Agatha - he claimed to David James Smith in 2010,
“I’m losing my f..king marbles ?
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Mindhouse TV decided to interview Mark Williams Thomas
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Mindhouse TV decided to interview Mark Williams Thomas
Pat Brown gets my vote for an interview 8((()*/ not MWT. %56&
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Pat Brown gets my vote for an interview 8((()*/ not MWT. %56&
Trudi Benjamin is included in the docu series also
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Pat Brown gets my vote for an interview 8((()*/ not MWT. %56&
Maybe they’ll interview Pat Brown if Mindhouse TV decide to do a second series ?
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Trudi Benjamin is included in the docu series also
What's cookin' in 'er AGA this time?!!!
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Maybe they’ll interview Pat Brown if Mindhouse TV decide to do a second series ?
A solely exclusive interview no less and with no-one else, otherwise it's about time this whole unhealthy obsession with Bamber docs and dramas was kicked into touch, forever and ever, AMEN.
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Peter Sutherst speaking at 2:44 mins in...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/feb/21/jeremy-bamber-murder-conviction-doubt (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/feb/21/jeremy-bamber-murder-conviction-doubt)
How do you know it's Tora T?
Episode 4 around 41.05 in
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A solely exclusive interview no less and with no-one else, otherwise it's about time this whole unhealthy obsession with Bamber docs and dramas was kicked into touch, forever and ever, AMEN.
Carol Ann Lee doesn’t seem to agree ?
(Episode 4 around 40:40)
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Poppy Ann Miller did appear in episode 4 washing the window of a car with a Bamber sticker in it
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What's cookin' in 'er AGA this time?!!!
They showed Trudi Benjamin saying she thought filming reading around the graves of 2 of Bamber’s victims - his mother and father - was a ‘good platform’
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They showed Trudi Benjamin saying she thought filming reading around the graves of 2 of Bamber’s victims - his mother and father - was a ‘good platform’
As good a platform as this codswallop... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBvnLsdpL08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBvnLsdpL08)
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As good a platform as this codswallop... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBvnLsdpL08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBvnLsdpL08)
What a pair 🙄
Why doesn’t Shaun Attwood’s #daddygate appear to phase people like Matthew Steeples (or Sandra Lean) ?
https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/daddygate
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There was no mention of whether Bamber coerced Anji Greaves to give her interview with the Sun newspaper
“On the steps of Morshead Mansions, Brett Collins told the Evening Standard that Jeremy maintained his innocence ‘and I believe him. There’s no love lost between Jeremy and his immediate relatives. But his friends, including his girlfriend Angela, will be standing by him and we hope that the truth will finally prevail in what is a most confusing series of events.’ He flew back to New Zealand on 3rd November 1985, following proceedings from afar.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=jeremy+bamber+rodney+brown+anji&source=bl&ots=h8PnOFTeYj&sig=ACfU3U25vYTa3CZuagVZ6JIVTldkpqFrCQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC6MnRs4TpAhWJXhUIHQ3YDioQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20rodney%20brown%20anji&f=false
There was no mention of Virginia Greaves
Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex* I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
I wonder how much content Mindhouse TV kept back for a possible second series?
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Brett Collins mentioned the ‘mercenary’ story again in episode 4
But there was nothing of him and Bamber having been lovers - when they clearly were at some point
In another one of the episodes - there was news footage from 1985 showing Brett Collins walking off and he appeared to be mincing
He was seen in the first episode polishing his Porsche - presumably footage from sometime in 2021?
September 2016
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-man-fined-50k-for-illegally-trading-motor-vehicles/JVHA24BQAXIFXXE4D7DIBZPWTY/
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As good a platform as this codswallop... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBvnLsdpL08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBvnLsdpL08)
I didn’t realise Yvonne and Philip were in the trailer 🙄
And turning a blind eye to Shaun Attwood’s behaviour
#daddygate ➡️ https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/daddygate
Both Philip and Yvonne sound extremely deluded
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‘Jeremy Bamber was ‘like ageing accountant, not a killer’
JEREMY Bamber is more like an "ageing accountant" than a mass murderer, according to a crime author and journalist, who interviewed the killer in prison.
https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1496769/jeremy-bamber-sky-crime-series
What does David James Smith think a killer looks like ?
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There was no mention of whether Bamber coerced Anji Greaves to give her interview with the Sun newspaper
“On the steps of Morshead Mansions, Brett Collins told the Evening Standard that Jeremy maintained his innocence ‘and I believe him. There’s no love lost between Jeremy and his immediate relatives. But his friends, including his girlfriend Angela, will be standing by him and we hope that the truth will finally prevail in what is a most confusing series of events.’ He flew back to New Zealand on 3rd November 1985, following proceedings from afar.”
(Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee’s book ~ ‘The Murders at White House Farm’)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=jeremy+bamber+rodney+brown+anji&source=bl&ots=h8PnOFTeYj&sig=ACfU3U25vYTa3CZuagVZ6JIVTldkpqFrCQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC6MnRs4TpAhWJXhUIHQ3YDioQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20rodney%20brown%20anji&f=false
Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex* I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
There was no mention of Virginia Greaves
It’s possible Rodney Brown - who appeared in the Sky docuseries - also knew about the fake story involving the Greave sisters (Virginia and Anji)
Carol Ann Lee stated in her book,
‘’After the hearing, Jeremy was met by Rodney Brown, owner of the Caribbean cottage, who had borrowed a white Jaguar
for the occasion. Sitting beside him was Angela Greaves, Virginias older sister. A beautician six years Jeremy’s senior, ‘Anji’ had quickly grown close to Jeremy following his visits with Virginia. ‘The poor chap was on Valium and he was drinking. He had no body to turn to. His relatives were fighting over everything. It was awful, absolutely awful.’ Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy became lovers before his arrest and that it was their affair, rather than his with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named his as the murderer.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=jeremy+bamber+rodney+brown+anji&source=bl&ots=h8PnOFTeYj&sig=ACfU3U25vYTa3CZuagVZ6JIVTldkpqFrCQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC6MnRs4TpAhWJXhUIHQ3YDioQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20rodney%20brown%20anji&f=false
Carol Ann Lean has taken some of the content from Angela Greaves fake news story - which she gave to the Sun - for the above
Carol Ann Lee goes on
‘Regardless of what lay behind julies motivation, Anji was there to meet him upon his release. Rodney drove to Witham police station, where grim faced detectives including Mike Ainsley watched their arrival. ‘The court bailed him knowing full well why we’d taken him there,’ Ainsley remembers. ‘He turned up in a Jaguar with this guy who owned a restaurant in Burnham-on-Crouch and sat there smirking. I said to him, ‘We’ll see who’s smirking at the end of all this, shall we?’ He left Jeremy at the reception desk and walked up to the first floor. Gathering his belongings, Jeremy looked up and gave the detective a final glance before leaving for a wine bar in town. Rodney and Anji saw him onto the London train later that afternoon.
Did Brett Collins mention any of this to the Mindhouse TV production company or did he keep quiet about it?
‘She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister
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I have to say that this doc was has been a bit of a damp squib all round.
It's just a patchwork of talking heads telling their personal stories. Any one who is no longer alive doesn't get a mention, so no Stan Jones.
And then there's that random Towie reject that pops up every now and then, screeching 'nuffink adds up'.
The timeline of events is all over the place, not helped by the complete omission of all the deceased people (apart from the family). There's no narration to join up the dots, and there is no analysis whatsoever of any of the evidence. A little bit by Malcom Fletcher, but only as part of his personal story.
I thought the model of the house would have been used so that we could see the positions of doors and stairs in relation to the bodies, and the route that the firearms officers took as they entered the building. It would have been interesting to have seen the view that the firearms officer got as he peered through the window before entering. But, as random Towie reject woman would say....'Nuffink!'
I'm two and a half episodes in, and the only thing I'm wondering about, is whether Brett Collins gets his car cleaned by the end of ep 4. The tension is building.
There's one scene where Brett Collins is washing his car, and he say's 'This is the kind of thing Jeremy wanted', and a big smile washed over his face, then he said 'it's ironic'. When Bamber sees that, his blood is going to boil! It was worth it just for that.
The other memorable moment was Brett Collins telling the story about when they were in St Tropez, and he looked Bamber in the eye and asked him straight, 'Did you do it', and Bamber's reply was 'You will not believe what happened'. Then Brett Collins said that the piercing manner in which Bamber answered meant that was the end of the conversation, no more was allowed to be said on the matter. It kind of highlights how Bamber manipulates people with his intimidating personality.
So now what I've got to look forward to is Peter Tatchell blathering on about civil rights, without a care in the world about the deceased, or the remaining family of the deceased.
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I have to say that this doc was has been a bit of a damp squib all round.
It's just a patchwork of talking heads telling their personal stories.
Agreed
-
The timeline of events is all over the place, not helped by the complete omission of all the deceased people (apart from the family). There's no narration to join up the dots, and there is no analysis whatsoever of any of the evidence. A little bit by Malcom Fletcher, but only as part of his personal story.
I’d be interested to know why they chose to involve David James Smith as much as they did
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I thought the model of the house would have been used so that we could see the positions of doors and stairs in relation to the bodies, and the route that the firearms officers took as they entered the building. It would have been interesting to have seen the view that the firearms officer got as he peered through the window before entering. But, as random Towie reject woman would say....'Nuffink!'
Yep - especially given all what Lottie Gammon had said about the model of the house
Lottie Gammon ⬇️
Telling the tale of The Bambers for Sky crime - 24th September 2021
‘I had come into the story cold – I knew very little aside from the sometimes quite outlandish headlines. But as soon as we started digging, I realised that there was a complex, tragic and compelling family story underpinning the case that needed space to breathe.
Sky had originally commissioned 3 x 45 minute programmes, but as our edit progressed and more contributors agreed to be interviewed, it became clear that the best way to really do the story and characters justice was to add a fourth episode. Sky too understood how rich the story was and we were delighted when they agreed.
We initially talked about using reconstruction– but it soon became clear that recreating an entire 1980s farm house was not realistic or particularly desirable, both creatively and financially.
There are detailed – and hugely distressing – crime scene photos. We debated whether we should use them as part of the series and felt it was important not to sanitise a crime like this. Equally we wanted to respect the victims and their relatives by not showing anything too graphic.
As a solution, we decided to make a model of the house as a way of allowing the audience to take in the crime scene and its details without compromising the dignity of the victims.
Our art director John Reynolds went to great lengths to make sure that the model was exact – going so far as counting the bricks on the front of the house and using the original floor plans made by the police. We wanted it to feel hand-made and have texture, but not cartoonish.
We eventually made six models of the interior and exterior of the house which each played specific roles in the series – interior models of the key crime scenes, top-down “birds eye view” models and one enormous 4x4m model of the outside of the farmhouse.
Shooting the models was a new challenge – we shot on a A7S III and used a mini motion control rig called the Syrp Genie which helped create smooth, flowing shots programmed via an iPad.
(Broadcastnow.co.uk)
https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/sky/telling-the-tale-of-the-bambers-for-sky-crime/5163429.article
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I'm two and a half episodes in, and the only thing I'm wondering about, is whether Brett Collins gets his car cleaned by the end of ep 4. The tension is building.
Why would Louis Theroux, Lottie Gammon and co choose to use these clips in their doc but leave out something as crucial as Anji Greaves posing as Bamber’s girlfriend ?
‘She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister…’
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There's one scene where Brett Collins is washing his car, and he say's 'This is the kind of thing Jeremy wanted', and a big smile washed over his face, then he said 'it's ironic'.
Do you think Brett Collins still carries a torch for Bamber ?
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There's one scene where Brett Collins is washing his car, and he say's 'This is the kind of thing Jeremy wanted', and a big smile washed over his face, then he said 'it's ironic'. When Bamber sees that, his blood is going to boil! It was worth it just for that.
Do you think that’s why Mindhouse TV chose to use that clip?
-
The other memorable moment was Brett Collins telling the story about when they were in St Tropez, and he looked Bamber in the eye and asked him straight, 'Did you do it', and Bamber's reply was 'You will not believe what happened'. Then Brett Collins said that the piercing manner in which Bamber answered meant that was the end of the conversation, no more was allowed to be said on the matter. It kind of highlights how Bamber manipulates people with his intimidating personality.
Do you think Bamber manipulated David James Smith?
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So now what I've got to look forward to is Peter Tatchell blathering on about civil rights, without a care in the world about the deceased, or the remaining family of the deceased.
I think he referred to himself as a ‘human rights defender’
And Mark Williams Thomas
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Mick Ainsley mentioned Julie Mugford and temazepam at some point during the docuseries
His recollection on this story doesn’t fit with Julie’s evidence
Excerpts from Julie Mugford’s witness statement dated 8/9th September 1985
Sheet 5
‘I remember that he said that he would use his mother’s sleeping pills to put on the drinks as she was taking them at the time.
Sheet 6
‘During the period of my teaching practice I went to my Doctor who is a Doctor REEVE of New Cross, London. He is the doctor for the college. I went there because I was having a rough time on my teaching practice and could not sleep properly. The Doctor asked me if I wanted something to calm me down and he prescribed me some mild tranquillisers. I later took one tablet but didn’t take anymore. The weekend after I got the tablets I went down to Goldhanger and told Jeremy about going to the doctor and I showed him the tablets. I told him I was annoyed with the Doctor because the doctor hadn’t discussed the problem with me but just prescribed tablets. I showed him the tablets and told him they were big and fat and hard to swallow. Nothing more was said about them and I put the bottle on the microwave in the kitchen.
A few days later Jeremy phoned me at my home and told me that he was going to take some of the pills I had bought him. For some reason or another he had it in his mind that I had bought the pills especially for him so he could
Sheet 7
‘use them on his parents. This is not true and I had no idea why he should think this. He told me that he was going to take some of the pills to see what effect they had on him and if they tasted in a drink. Although you might find it hard to believe I honestly thought he was living a charade and I didn’t want to believe what he was saying as I didn’t think he would carry his threats out. A few days later I believe it was at the weekend when I went to Goldhanger he told me the pills were useless and didn’t have the desired effect. I told Jeremy that I didn’t like him taking about stupid things and I suppose for about 6 weeks up to late November 1984 he did not mention about killing his family. ’
Link to Julie Mugford’s police witness statement (8th/9th September 1985) ➡️ http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=284.msg4962#msg4962
Someone at Mindhouse TV didn’t carry out their due diligence *&^^&
I have to say that this doc was has been a bit of a damp squib all round.
It's just a patchwork of talking heads telling their personal stories. Any one who is no longer alive doesn't get a mention, so no Stan Jones.
Why did Mindhouse TV choose to include the clip of Mick Ainsley referring to Julie Mugford and ‘temazepam’ which was factually wrong?
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Do you think Brett Collins still carries a torch for Bamber ?
Well it was dark at 3am back in August '85, but it'll need new batteries by now.
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I have to say that this doc was has been a bit of a damp squib all round.
It's just a patchwork of talking heads telling their personal stories. Any one who is no longer alive doesn't get a mention, so no Stan Jones.
And then there's that random Towie reject that pops up every now and then, screeching 'nuffink adds up'.
The timeline of events is all over the place, not helped by the complete omission of all the deceased people (apart from the family). There's no narration to join up the dots, and there is no analysis whatsoever of any of the evidence. A little bit by Malcom Fletcher, but only as part of his personal story.
I thought the model of the house would have been used so that we could see the positions of doors and stairs in relation to the bodies, and the route that the firearms officers took as they entered the building. It would have been interesting to have seen the view that the firearms officer got as he peered through the window before entering. But, as random Towie reject woman would say....'Nuffink!'
I'm two and a half episodes in, and the only thing I'm wondering about, is whether Brett Collins gets his car cleaned by the end of ep 4. The tension is building.
There's one scene where Brett Collins is washing his car, and he say's 'This is the kind of thing Jeremy wanted', and a big smile washed over his face, then he said 'it's ironic'. When Bamber sees that, his blood is going to boil! It was worth it just for that.
The other memorable moment was Brett Collins telling the story about when they were in St Tropez, and he looked Bamber in the eye and asked him straight, 'Did you do it', and Bamber's reply was 'You will not believe what happened'. Then Brett Collins said that the piercing manner in which Bamber answered meant that was the end of the conversation, no more was allowed to be said on the matter. It kind of highlights how Bamber manipulates people with his intimidating personality.
So now what I've got to look forward to is Peter Tatchell blathering on about civil rights, without a care in the world about the deceased, or the remaining family of the deceased.
Something along the lines of, but a bit more pro than this, maybe...
https://www.mediafire.com/file/knoicgj1f1a3i94/WHF_through_kitchen_window.mp4/file (https://www.mediafire.com/file/knoicgj1f1a3i94/WHF_through_kitchen_window.mp4/file)
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Excerpts from Julie Mugford’s witness statement dated 8/9th September 1985
Sheet 5
‘I remember that he said that he would use his mother’s sleeping pills to put on the drinks as she was taking them at the time.
Sheet 6
‘During the period of my teaching practice I went to my Doctor who is a Doctor REEVE of New Cross, London. He is the doctor for the college. I went there because I was having a rough time on my teething practice and could not sleep properly. The Doctor asked me if I wanted something to calm me down and he prescribed me some mild tranquillisers. I later took one tablet but didn’t take anymore. The weekend after I got the tablets I went down to Goldhanger and told Jeremy about going to the doctor and I showed him the tablets. I told him I was annoyed with the Doctor because the doctor hadn’t discussed the problem with me but just prescribed tablets. I showed him the tablets and told him they were big and fat and hard to swallow. Nothing more was said about them and I put the bottle on the microwave in the kitchen.
A few days later Jeremy phoned me at my home and told me that he was going to take some of the pills I had bought him. For some reason or another he had it in his mind that I had bought the pills especially for him so he could
Sheet 7
‘use them on his parents. This is not true and I had no idea why he should think this. He told me that he was going to take some of the pills to see what effect they had on him and if they tasted in a drink. Although you might find it hard to believe I honestly thought he was living a charade and I didn’t want to believe what he was saying as I didn’t think he would carry his threats out. A few days later I believe it was at the weekend when I went to Goldhanger he told me the pills were useless and didn’t have the desired effect. ’
Link to Julie Mugford’s police witness statement (8th/9th September 1985) ➡️ http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=284.msg4962#msg4962
Did Bamber use the tablets Julie left on top of the microwave in the kitchen at Goldhanger on the girl at the Chequers public house?
Excerpt from ‘Blood Relations’ by Roger Wilkes
‘Stan Jones leafed through a sheaf of typewritten papers on the table in front of him. 'So,' he said, 'you know Charles Marsden?' Jeremy said he did. 'He and I were very close a few years ago, and not so close now as I don't really see him that often.' The detective continued to look through his papers. 'Do you remember me yesterday putting to you that Julie had said that you intended to drug the family and burn the farm down when they were all in it ? Bamber said he remembered and that Julie was telling lies. 'You see' said Stan Jones, running a finger down one of the statements, 'Charles Marsden also says the same thing. He says that around Christmas time last year, when all the family, your parents, Sheila and twins were there, you told him that if you burned the house down with all them in it, you'd get everything. Is he telling lies as well? Jeremy said he didn't remember discussing the matter with Marsden, and that he concluded that his friend was lying. Stan Jones put the statement down on the table. ‘Julie's telling lies.' he said, recapping 'and he is telling lies’. For what reason? 'No comment’.'
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Mick Ainsley mentioned Julie Mugford and temazepam at some point during the docuseries
His recollection on this story doesn’t fit with Julie’s evidence
Excerpts from Julie Mugford’s witness statement dated 8/9th September 1985
Sheet 5
‘I remember that he said that he would use his mother’s sleeping pills to put on the drinks as she was taking them at the time.
Sheet 6
‘During the period of my teaching practice I went to my Doctor who is a Doctor REEVE of New Cross, London. He is the doctor for the college. I went there because I was having a rough time on my teething practice and could not sleep properly. The Doctor asked me if I wanted something to calm me down and he prescribed me some mild tranquillisers. I later took one tablet but didn’t take anymore. The weekend after I got the tablets I went down to Goldhanger and told Jeremy about going to the doctor and I showed him the tablets. I told him I was annoyed with the Doctor because the doctor hadn’t discussed the problem with me but just prescribed tablets. I showed him the tablets and told him they were big and fat and hard to swallow. Nothing more was said about them and I put the bottle on the microwave in the kitchen.
A few days later Jeremy phoned me at my home and told me that he was going to take some of the pills I had bought him. For some reason or another he had it in his mind that I had bought the pills especially for him so he could
Sheet 7
‘use them on his parents. This is not true and I had no idea why he should think this. He told me that he was going to take some of the pills to see what effect they had on him and if they tasted in a drink. Although you might find it hard to believe I honestly thought he was living a charade and I didn’t want to believe what he was saying as I didn’t think he would carry his threats out. A few days later I believe it was at the weekend when I went to Goldhanger he told me the pills were useless and didn’t have the desired effect. I told Jeremy thst I didn’t like him taking about stupid things and I suppose for about 6 weeks up to late November 1984 he did not mention about killing his family. ’
Link to Julie Mugford’s police witness statement (8th/9th September 1985) ➡️ http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=284.msg4962#msg4962
Someone at Mindhouse TV didn’t carry out their due diligence *&^^&
Why did Mindhouse TV choose to include the clip of Mick Ainsley referring to Julie Mugford and ‘temazepam’ which was factually wrong?
’Louis Theroux says there’s “more to” Bamber family case in Murder at the Farm’
Excerpt:
‘Asked whether we could see a second series, he said: “I would say never say never. In the fourth episode, the possibility is raised of a third party, but it’s unlikely that we would do another series. Obviously, there’s a key contributor – Julie Mugford, who was [Jeremy Bamber’s] girlfriend at the time and a linchpin in the case. If she called up and said, ‘I’ve seen the series and I want to give you an interview and break my silence,’ then there might be a conversation to be had. The fact is, there’s still work to the case, but it’s very hard to explain.”
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/true-crime/louis-theroux-murder-at-the-farm-bamber-case-newsupdate/
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’Louis Theroux says there’s “more to” Bamber family case in Murder at the Farm’
‘Asked whether we could see a second series, he said: “I would say never say never. In the fourth episode, the possibility is raised of a third party, but it’s unlikely that we would do another series. Obviously, there’s a key contributor – Julie Mugford, who was [Jeremy Bamber’s] girlfriend at the time and a linchpin in the case. If she called up and said, ‘I’ve seen the series and I want to give you an interview and break my silence,’ then there might be a conversation to be had. The fact is, there’s still work to the case, but it’s very hard to explain.”
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/true-crime/louis-theroux-murder-at-the-farm-bamber-case-newsupdate/ (https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/true-crime/louis-theroux-murder-at-the-farm-bamber-case-newsupdate/)
Not a chance in hell that she would get on the blower.
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Not a chance in hell that she would get on the blower.
Her lawyers might
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It’s possible Rodney Brown - who appeared in the Sky docuseries - also knew about the fake story involving the Greave sisters (Virginia and Anji)
Rodney Brown said at the beginning of episode 4
“I think he’s been stitched up by everybody”
What about the ‘stitching up’ of the Sun newspaper ?
Other than Brett Collins and Virginia Greaves - How many others from the group of Bamber’s friends knew about the fake news story?
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So now what I've got to look forward to is Peter Tatchell blathering on about civil rights, without a care in the world about the deceased, or the remaining family of the deceased.
He doesn’t appear to want to consider or take on board the fact psychopathic Bamber duped the police officers in the early hours/days/weeks of their investigation
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At the beginning of episode 4 of the docuseries David James Smiths recording of Bamber is used
Bamber describes his time in/around 1991
Was this also the time he and Aunt Agatha had photos taken together?
It’s not like that. Seriously.
It wasn’t about sides. He wanted to protect me as much as possible. I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days. We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.
Did he appear to be losing his ‘marbles’ when you and him were together Aunt Agatha?
You're failing to look at things from the early 90's. I didn't 'campaign' , how were we supposed to find other supporters etc. No, I was a single supporter and confidant. That's it!!
I was not his lawyers and I genuinely believed in the justice system then and that this terrible wrong would be righted.
So much so, I waited for a second appeal with him.
You're right to a degree, but the information I received had to come from Justice For All, not Jeremy during the beginning.
They did not have access to everything either.
Therefore, my knowledge from actual case papers was very limited.
I had the basics, yes, but I was not allowed everything.
Things have changed.
Re: ‘Justice For All’ The Manchester McKenzie Organisation ⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=276.msg4584#msg4584
Referring to 1991 Bamber states,
“That’s when I had my problems”
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And then there's that random Towie reject that pops up every now and then, screeching 'nuffink adds up'.
I suspect someone at Mindhoise TV will be monitoring feedback
Call me hand
@mindofvanessa
Is she sure????!!!!! Chatting pure shit, she wasn’t even there. Pure projection. Face with tears of joyFace with tears of joyFace with tears of joy
She’s embarrassing herself #thebambers
Image
12:37 AM · Sep 27, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/mindofvanessa/status/1442272039092559879
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Re: ‘Justice For All’ The Manchester McKenzie Organisation ⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=276.msg4584#msg4584
I don’t recall anyone mentioning the ‘hacksaw blade’ at all?
Said in 1996 to be one of the ‘main items of evidence in this case’
There’s an interesting paragraph on p.3 on the 1996 letter
The 4th para reads,
‘Clearly, Miss Mugford’s testimony was nothing more than a collection of invented newspaper stories, much of which held no credibility whatsoever and were clearly untrue not only by newspapers and Miss Mugford, but also put forward by her with the collusion of others”
Is this a type of projection of what really happened in relation to Anji Greaves fake news story
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I'm two and a half episodes in, and the only thing I'm wondering about, is whether Brett Collins gets his car cleaned by the end of ep 4.
Episode 4 is interesting
The Criminal cases review commission are mentioned early on
And the music as various contributors speak to the camera is worth noting too. It’s especially noticeable when David James Smith is talking about people on social media
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Re: ‘Justice For All’ The Manchester McKenzie Organisation ⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=276.msg4584#msg4584
In episode 4 David James Smith asks Bamber what he thinks happened.
‘Tell me what you think happened’
Listen to Bamber’s response
Who ‘reconstructed’ what was written in the May 1996 ‘Manchester McKensie’ letter?
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Episode 4 is interesting
The Criminal cases review commission are mentioned early on
And the music as various contributors speak to the camera is worth noting too. It’s especially noticeable when David James Smith is talking about people on social media
They also get a mention right at the end
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Did Bamber use the tablets Julie left on top of the microwave in the kitchen at Goldhanger on the girl at the Chequers public house?
Julie said she mixed dates up
What was the exact date she went to see the doctor
And around what date did the girl from the Chequers public house recall feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’ by Bamber?
According to CAL
‘He and Charles Marsden had spent an evening drinking with the girl at the Chequers. Returning to Bourtree cottage after the pub closed, Charles went to bed while Jeremy and the girl stayed downstairs drinking. She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’. Charles Marsden lay next to them; he recalled waking up to find the couple having sex but both he and the girl confirmed he had taken no part in what was going on.
The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=charles+marsden+essex&source=bl&ots=jQISI3Diw_&sig=ACfU3U1i336DTUwUTlMThBe2M3Xntg_NJA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil_JK6psXpAhW-QhUIHRPOAwkQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20essex&f=false
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Essex news only put out this one snippet from Lottie Gammon on David James Smith and already - from this - lies are being told by omission
Lottie Gammon describes David James Smith as the ‘Sunday times journalist’
No mention of him having been a CCRC* commissioner between 2013 and 2018
Although this fact may get mentioned in the forthcoming docu series
I don’t think it was ever mentioned
Although Mindhouse TV more than likely would have known David James Smith was once a CCRC commissioner
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Louis Theroux
@louistheroux
Four part series from
@MindhouseTV
which I exec’ed. Streaming now.
Image
3:59 PM · Sep 27, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/louistheroux/status/1442504080165941248
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See what happens when a couple of clueless numpties are let free rein on the case. *%87
https://www.thesteepletimes.com/the-fog/jeremy-bamber-innocence-campaign/?amp&__twitter_impression=true
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https://www.thesteepletimes.com/the-fog/jeremy-bamber-innocence-campaign/?amp&__twitter_impression=true (https://www.thesteepletimes.com/the-fog/jeremy-bamber-innocence-campaign/?amp&__twitter_impression=true)
Yeah... they look a right couple of crackpot mugs in that mugshot.
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I don’t think it was ever mentioned
Although Mindhouse TV more than likely would have known David James Smith was once a CCRC commissioner
Btw I’m of the view journalists like David James Smith should not be allowed to become CCRC commissioners
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I suspect someone at Mindhoise TV will be monitoring feedback
Call me hand
@mindofvanessa
Is she sure????!!!!! Chatting pure shit, she wasn’t even there. Pure projection. Face with tears of joyFace with tears of joyFace with tears of joy
She’s embarrassing herself #thebambers
Image
12:37 AM · Sep 27, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/mindofvanessa/status/1442272039092559879 (https://mobile.twitter.com/mindofvanessa/status/1442272039092559879)
How come there are so many Trudi doppelganger airhead supporters?
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How come there are so many Trudi doppelganger airhead supporters?
I thought she looked a bit like Trudi
Do you think Lorraine Hastings could go onto become a CCRC commissioner ?
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I thought she looked a bit like Trudi
Do you think Lorraine Hastings could go onto become a CCRC commissioner ?
In the words of a convicted Italian fraudster - "It's IMPOSSIBLE!.... "
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Better not keep changing his mind about which of them saw what. 8(8-))
Chris Bews evidence was probably more accurate nearer the time of the murders
It’s interesting how Bamber supporters recognise when Bews contradicts himself but don’t appear capable of doing the same when Bamber does and in some cases themselves
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’Louis Theroux says there’s “more to” Bamber family case in Murder at the Farm’
Excerpt:
‘Asked whether we could see a second series, he said: “I would say never say never. In the fourth episode, the possibility is raised of a third party, but it’s unlikely that we would do another series. Obviously, there’s a key contributor – Julie Mugford, who was [Jeremy Bamber’s] girlfriend at the time and a linchpin in the case. If she called up and said, ‘I’ve seen the series and I want to give you an interview and break my silence,’ then there might be a conversation to be had. The fact is, there’s still work to the case, but it’s very hard to explain.”
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/true-crime/louis-theroux-murder-at-the-farm-bamber-case-newsupdate/
Not a chance in hell that she would get on the blower.
Julie can choose to break her silence via her own platform if she ever wanted to - she doesn’t need Mindhouse TV, Sky TV or NOW
Interesting Louis Theroux seems to view her as a ‘key contributor’
What does he mean by ‘the fact is, there’s still work to the case’ and why does he say ‘it’s hard to explain”?
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In the words of a convicted Italian fraudster - "It's IMPOSSIBLE!.... "
What did you make of Carol Ann Lee’s contribution?
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In the words of a convicted Italian fraudster - "It's IMPOSSIBLE!.... "
And how do you think Brett Collins will react to Barbara Wilson’s comment in episode 3?
“I think he was getting into bad company”
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What did you make of Carol Ann Lee’s contribution?
Haven't watched most of it up to now, so can't comment.
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Toby Clarkson
@vehicle1001
Had the pleasure of editing episode 4 with a brill team of all round good eggs
Quote Tweet
Louis Theroux
@louistheroux
· 2h
Four part series from @MindhouseTV which I exec’ed. Streaming now.
Image
5:03 PM · Sep 27, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/vehicle1001/status/1442520304442609667
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No idea who this is or what it's about... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5axVP0YMrg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5axVP0YMrg)
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No idea who this is or what it's about... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5axVP0YMrg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5axVP0YMrg)
This is the same person isn’t it https://christinejoannahart.com/ - lots of ‘testimonials’ from journalists
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This is the same person isn’t it https://christinejoannahart.com/ (https://christinejoannahart.com/) - lots of ‘testimonials’ from journalists
For sure and according to her video, at one time wrote to and befriended Bamber, but now no longer does so and thinks he did it. Hard to make what she says unless you're wearing headphones... she apologised for having a cold.
But better than the tripe that those two deluded bootlickers are coming out with on Attwood's channel.
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For sure and according to her video, at one time wrote to and befriended Bamber, but now no longer does so and thinks he did it. Hard to make what she says unless you're wearing headphones... she apologised for having a cold.
But better than the tripe that those two deluded bootlickers are coming out with on Attwood's channel.
Doesn’t she also refer to Bamber as a ‘nice guy’ ?
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I see the ‘White House Farm’ podcast is back up and running too
‘An investigative podcast that aims to reconsider the case against Jeremy Bamber.
I’ve been obsessed with the White House murders for over 10 years, long believing that Jeremy Bamber was innocent. But in January 2020, having watched the first episode of the drama, I decided to start a podcast.
At the time, I was angry about the drama itself and was surprised to see that there were no podcasts about this case. Since, there have been two in addition to mine, but back then there were only episodes and NO full series.
And so, I decided to create my own. It’s a mission that has proven harder than expected, thence the numerous stops and starts. But having finally exhausted all my research, the podcast is soon to relaunch.
Have a nosey around, engage with the blog content and thank you for stopping by. (sic)
https://whfpod.co.uk/
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For sure and according to her video, at one time wrote to and befriended Bamber, but now no longer does so and thinks he did it. Hard to make what she says unless you're wearing headphones... she apologised for having a cold.
But better than the tripe that those two deluded bootlickers are coming out with on Attwood's channel.
She’s promoting Shaun Attwood by the looks of it
Her Twitter bio reads,
‘Chris Hart is a highly experienced Private Investigator, Sunday Times best-selling Author. Public Speaker. Clairvoyant and Medium.
One of her comments reads,
‘I corresponded with Jeremy for a while. I believe he's guilty but his Mother abused her adopted children making both crazy. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M&feature=youtu.be
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For sure and according to her video, at one time wrote to and befriended Bamber, but now no longer does so and thinks he did it. Hard to make what she says unless you're wearing headphones... she apologised for having a cold.
But better than the tripe that those two deluded bootlickers are coming out with on Attwood's channel.
Here she is
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hiya-e2qhxQ
James Weatherup, who was also in the Mindhouse TV doc is in the video too (The ex NOTW journo)
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I didn’t realise Yvonne and Philip were in the trailer 🙄
And turning a blind eye to Shaun Attwood’s behaviour
#daddygate ➡️ https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/daddygate
Both Philip and Yvonne sound extremely deluded
It’s sad these two appear to have been completely brainwashed
They seem to think everyone has lied apart from Bamber
Shaun Attwood states,
‘TV programmes can make anyone look innocent or guilty depending on how they want to slant it’
He didn’t say that when he interviewed Sandra Lean
They say we can ask them any questions -
* Why did Anji Greaves pose as Bambers girlfriend for the Sun newspaper & how much was she paid and what did she do with the money
* Did he spike the girl from the Chequers publics house drink and have non consensual ‘intercourse’ with her?
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New blog from Gunfire Graffiti ➡️ http://gunfire-graffiti.co.uk/the-white-house-farm-murders-caffel-or-bamber/
Excerpt:
‘Jeremy Bamber in written communication does not agree with my analogy. Whilst he concurs that the perpetrator would need to have completed some practise in magazine filling, loading and preparing the rifle to fire he considers the required technical dexterity to be more akin to mastering the use of a food mixer.
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https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4 (https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-4)
1. Chris Bews obviously, but looking worryingly like Tesko in front of his Welsh Dresser...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1BWtxcrzc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1BWtxcrzc)
2. ?
3. A journalist from some red top... can't think which one though?
4. Which internet sleuths support him?!!! *%87 Only Holy Godhead as far as I'm aware.
James Weatherup
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/guardian-pays-damages-former-now-news-editor-james-weatherup-over-nick-davies-book-extract-claims/
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New blog from Gunfire Graffiti ➡️ http://gunfire-graffiti.co.uk/the-white-house-farm-murders-caffel-or-bamber/
Excerpt:
‘Jeremy Bamber in written communication does not agree with my analogy. Whilst he concurs that the perpetrator would need to have completed some practise in magazine filling, loading and preparing the rifle to fire he considers the required technical dexterity to be more akin to mastering the use of a food mixer.
Is there any evidence Jeremy Bamber ever used a food mixer?
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Kay Page mentions Anji Greaves (& Julie Mugford) receiving ‘substantial sums of money’ for the fake newspaper article but Kay doesn’t appear to have asked Brett Collins how much money Anji Greaves was paid - At least if she did she didn’t include this in her final podcast
From around 42:40 here https://thewhitehousefarmmurders.buzzsprout.com/769913/8368829 Brett Collins describes some of what happened following his arrest
Kay Page hasn’t transcribed what she said in her podcast interview with Brett Collins - she’s only included what she’s edited down from her original conversation with Brett Collins
On page 8 of the transcript it states Brett Collins said,
‘The lady that I found the lawyer with, I think the newspapers paid her a lot of money..’
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0
Does Kay Page still post here ?
If so, did Brett Collins tell her how much exactly Anji Greaves was paid for her fake news story
Kay said in the interview it was ‘substantial’
Did Brett Collins tell her how much exactly?
And did he tell her what Anji did with the money and whether or not she gave any to Bamber?
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Kay Page mentions Anji Greaves (& Julie Mugford) receiving ‘substantial sums of money’ for the fake newspaper article but Kay doesn’t appear to have asked Brett Collins how much money Anji Greaves was paid - At least if she did she didn’t include this in her final podcast
Maybe she intends on including it in her new ‘re-recorded’ podcast?
White House Farm Podcast
@whfmurders
Just a reminder about what’s happening this week on the podcast.
- New episodes are launching
- And slowly, one by one, all previous episodes are being re-recorded and edited to ensure they are a much better quality
10:03 AM · Sep 27, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/whfmurders/status/1442414526486491138
White House Farm Podcast
@whfmurders
Replying to
@spaceace4stace
Ah thank you. I appreciate that. There’s a new episode going up this week and I’ve re-recorded and improved the old ones. Lots of topics coming soon. Documentaries do their best but I have hours of episodes coming Smiling face with smiling eyes the goal is to try and cover all the topics.
7:08 PM · Sep 27, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/whfmurders/status/1442551829116637188
Is the reason she’s decided to re-record and improve the old ones because she’s recognised the significance of some of the content she felt wasn’t relevant to include in the original episodes?
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Kay Page mentions Anji Greaves (& Julie Mugford) receiving ‘substantial sums of money’ for the fake newspaper article but Kay doesn’t appear to have asked Brett Collins how much money Anji Greaves was paid - At least if she did she didn’t include this in her final podcast
From around 42:40 here https://thewhitehousefarmmurders.buzzsprout.com/769913/8368829 Brett Collins describes some of what happened following his arrest
During her podcast, Kay Page describes Anji Greaves as Bamber’s ‘new lover’ seemingly completely missing the fact that Brett Collins has told her (Kay) that Bamber’s then girlfriend (Virginia Greaves) ‘older sister’ Anji went with him to find a lawyer for Bamber
Kay Page states,
‘Following his arrest while Jeremy sat in Chelmsford police station facing hours upon hours of questioning Brett and Jeremy’s new lover set out to find a new lawyer for their friend’
Kay Page has done what Bamber supporters appear to do a great deal of - attempted to re-write history
Kay Page goes on (At around 44:34)
‘At this point Brett touches on the role that the media played with both Anji and Julie Mugford having been paid substantial sums of money for their version of the story and Brett too was offered a fee
Brett Collins states,
‘The newspaper paid him quite a bit of money’
Was Brett referring to the money Anji Greaves received from the Sun newspaper from Anji’s fake news story?
Kay Page goes on to state,
‘….but Brett did have some interesting if entirely unprovable information related to this theory…’
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Brett Collins states,
‘The newspaper paid him quite a bit of money’
Was Brett referring to the money Anji Greaves received from the Sun newspaper from Anji’s fake news story?
Kay Page goes on to state,
‘….but Brett did have some interesting if entirely unprovable information related to this theory…’
What do the Sun newspapers records show in relation to Anji (Angela) Greaves ‘substantial’ payment for her fake news story?
How was Anji paid? Cash? Cheque?
Was ‘money hungry sexual predator’ Bamber involved in the negotiations with the Sun?
What do his prison records show in relation to his finances from around that time?
What or who motivated Anji to lie to the Sun newspaper and who was involved with the conspiracy?
Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
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What do the Sun newspapers records show in relation to Anji (Angela) Greaves ‘substantial’ payment for her fake news story?
How was Anji paid? Cash? Cheque?
Was ‘money hungry sexual predator’ Bamber involved in the negotiations with the Sun?
What do his prison records show in relation to his finances from around that time?
What or who motivated Anji to lie to the Sun newspaper and who was involved with the conspiracy?
Obtaining money by deception is a criminal offence
Brett Collins (April 2021) on Anji (Angela) Greaves
’She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister
‘Nobody knows this until now
For around 36 years Brett Collins has sat on this
Seemingly so has Bamber
What does Bamber tell his supporters?
What have Anji and Virginia Greaves said about this over the years? Who have they told?
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Obtaining money by deception is a criminal offence
Brett Collins (April 2021) on Anji (Angela) Greaves
’She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister
‘Nobody knows this until now
For around 36 years Brett Collins has sat on this
Seemingly so has Bamber
What does Bamber tell his supporters?
What have Anji and Virginia Greaves said about this over the years? Who have they told?
Roger Wilkes stated in his updated 2020 edition of his book ‘Blood Relations’
’Jeremy himself had driven to London on his release from court to spend the weekend with Brett Collins, Virginia Greaves and her sister Anji at Sheila’s flat. The four spent the evening drinking in the West End. Some time after midnight Jeremy telephoned his old friend Michael Deckers in Colchester. ‘He sounded very drunk,’ Deckers reported. Jeremy had spent five days in custody and had hit the town in a big way as soon as he had the chance. He told Deckers that he’d been grilled for twelve hours a day ‘because the police think that I’ve committed murder’. In fact, Deckers already knew that Jeremy had spent the week being questioned. Anji Greaves had called him, saying that Jeremy’s arrest in London was splashed all over the papers. Charles Marsden had also called to say that he’d been interviewed by detectives no fewer than three times. Jeremy told Michael Deckers that he’d admitted burgling the caravan site office. Deckers said he couldn’t understand how the police could have kept him locked up all week just to be questioned about stealing some money. Jeremy explained that the police were quizzing him about the murders of his family, not just about a minor burglary. He insisted to Deckers that he was innocent, and said there was no evidence. Jeremy also expressed amazement at the number of people who were telling lies about him. Jeremy rang off saying he would call on Deckers in Colchester the following Monday, when he was due to pay another visit to his accountant and his solicitor.
The press, meanwhile, had scented dynamite. They knew that Jeremy was now considered a possible suspect in the White House Farm case, but it was plain that the case against him remained feeble and fragmentary. There were some half-hearted attempts to smother the dither and delay with a blanket of disinformation. Unofficial sources within the CID leaked a wholly spurious theory about Sheila being massively indebted to a London drugs ring, and rekindled the ‘hit man’ story to lend credence to it. On 15 September, two days after Jeremy’s release on bail, the Sunday Times reported a prediction from the assistant chief constable of Essex, Peter Simpson, that the reopened inquiry would take several weeks to complete. Simpson denied that the investigation had been hampered by the initial assumption that no outside person was involved, but admitted that the original assumption – that Sheila had been responsible – might have been mistaken.
Roger Wilkes goes on,
’From the moment he was arrested and charged on five counts of murder, Jeremy went to great lengths to see that his defence was as highly tuned as possible. He took the view that a local firm of solicitors, unused to assembling and running the defence in a high-profile murder trial, simply would not do. ‘Because of the seriousness of the charges,’ he wrote in a letter to Bruce Bowler, ‘the unusual – if not bizarre – circumstances surrounding this case and the fact of my entire innocence, I require a solicitor of immense skill and experience of complicated cases, and the backing of a very substantial team to support him, to secure my freedom.’ Bamber wanted a major player. He wanted Sir David Napley. In 1985, Sir David was probably the best-known solicitor in London, with a reputation for tackling tough defences. In 1979, he prepared the defence for the former Liberal Party leader, Jeremy Thorpe, when he was accused of conspiracy to murder. Jeremy Bamber approached Sir David two days after his first remand appearance, through his new girlfriend, Anji Greaves, sister of Virginia. According to Anji Greaves, Bamber had taken up with her two days after his parents’ funeral. They had been friends for years, but never lovers. But when Jeremy called at her London flat to ask her advice on getting rid of Julie Mugford, the couple ended up in bed. ‘I thought the poor guy needed affection, comfort and cuddles,’ Miss Greaves explained after the case in an interview with the Sun. The ‘twenty-five days of passion’ that followed, according to the newspaper, aroused jealous hatred in Bamber’s scorned former girlfriend, Julie Mugford. Anji described Julie as childish, possessive and a gold-digger. ‘I was giving him the love in bed she should have been giving him,’ she told the paper. ‘She was just giving him mouth.’ Anji Greaves appeared at Sir David Napley’s office in Covent Garden a few days after Bamber’s first remand appearance. Sir David received her with courtesy, but explained that he was personally unable to take the case on a legal aid basis. However, he did introduce her to one of his partners, a young solicitor called Paul Terzeon. Sir David explained that Terzeon would take the case on the firm’s behalf, and that he personally would review the papers before the proceedings to commit Jeremy Bamber for trial.
Brett Collins has confirmed ‘Miss Greaves’…….’interview with the Sun’ was fake
It was a fraudulent story
‘Nobody knows this until now’(Brett Collins 2021)
Roger Wilkes didn’t know this ⬇️
Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
Roger Wilkes was seemingly mislead by the fake news story
‘Roger Wilkes is a retired journalist. Born in North Wales in 1948, he was educated in Shropshire and joined the BBC in 1972. He worked in television and radio and is the author of several true crime books.
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Obtaining money by deception is a criminal offence
Brett Collins (April 2021) on Anji (Angela) Greaves
’She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister
‘Nobody knows this until now
For around 36 years Brett Collins has sat on this
Seemingly so has Bamber
What does Bamber tell his supporters?
What have Anji and Virginia Greaves said about this over the years? Who have they told?
Excerpt from Roger Wilkes 2020 updated version of ‘Blood Relations’
‘Anji described Julie as childish, possessive and a gold-digger.
Is this what Bamber was telling Anji and how much was that ‘substantial’ payment she received for her fake news story?
I was giving him the love in bed she should have been giving him,’she told the paper. ‘She was just giving him mouth.’
Julie Mugford refused to allow Bamber to touch her following the murders!
Was Bamber telling the Greaves sisters Julie wouldn’t have sex with him?
’Anji Greaves appeared at Sir David Napley’s office in Covent Garden a few days after Bamber’s first remand appearance. Sir David received her with courtesy, but explained that he was personally unable to take the case on a legal aid basis. However, he did introduce her to one of his partners, a young solicitor called Paul Terzeon. Sir David explained that Terzeon would take the case on the firm’s behalf, and that he personally would review the papers before the proceedings to commit Jeremy Bamber for trial.
What were Bamber’s legal team told about Virginia and Anji (Angela) Greaves?
And where are the Greave sisters and why aren’t they supporting Bamber’s claims of innocence?
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Has Bamber focused on Julie Mugfords NOW deal to keep attention away from Anji and Virginia Greaves
Anji Greaves, who according to Brett Collins sold a fake news story to a newspaper - meaning she obtained money by deception - which is fraud
Virginia Greaves who may have perjured herself?
‘Anji described Julie as childish, possessive and a gold-digger.
Why would Anji say this about Julie Mugford - what exactly gave her this impression?
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Has Bamber focused on Julie Mugfords NOW deal to keep attention away from Anji and Virginia Greaves
Anji Greaves, who according to Brett Collins sold a fake news story to a newspaper - meaning she obtained money by deception - which is fraud
Virginia Greaves who may have perjured herself?
‘Anji described Julie as childish, possessive and a gold-digger.
Why would Anji say this about Julie Mugford - what exactly gave her this impression?
And apparently Anji Greaves married sometime after the murders in 1985
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And apparently Anji Greaves married sometime after the murders in 1985
- I too am a bit confused about the Anji | Virginia situation because while Brett said they pretended it was Anji he was having an affair with because V was getting married, I've not found anything to prove this. BUT I do know that Anji DID get married in 1985. That entire thing baffles me.
I wonder how Anji feels for calling Julie ‘childish, possessive and a gold-digger’ ?
And I wonder how her future husband felt about her saying this ⬇️
I was giving him the love in bed she should have been giving him,’she told the paper. ‘She was just giving him mouth.’
The Sun interview was given in 1986 when Anji Gresves would have been a newly wed
From "The Murders at White House Farm" by Carol Ann Lee...
Anji Greaves had waited for the verdict in a hotel not far from Chelmsford with two friends and a journalist. Her room was decorated with ‘Welcome Home, Jeremy!’ banners, and she wore her glitziest outfit, with a bag packed; the journalist intended to write Jeremy’s story when he was acquitted and then hustle the couple off on holiday. But when the television news delivered the outcome, Anji walked out in a daze, narrowly avoiding being run over. She told the journalist: ‘I feel so much loyalty for Jeremy but I do not know if I can bring myself to go on visiting now. It could be a life sentence for both of us.’
Where was Anji’s new husband going to be whilst she was hustled off on holiday with Bamber?
I have located both of them under their new names - but neither will speak to me.
I suspect the reason they won’t speak is through their possible fear
Maybe they feel a similar fear to how Julie Mugford may have felt before she spoke to the police back in 1985?
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Of course there are and Brett Collins and the Greave sisters are 3 of them
Bamber would have behaved the same way with them as he did with Julie Mugford
Bamber’s goal regarding the Greave sisters was to manipulate, dominate and control them
Brett Collins doesn’t appear to want to talk about his involvement with those photos yet doesn’t seem to mind appearing in a Sky TV docuseries showing off his Porsche
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He’s a psychopath AA
In my honest opinion, he’s not. I wouldn’t have spent 18yrs with him if I thought he was.
Don’t believe everything you read.
It’s all part of the character assassination. Smoke and mirrors.
I was at a dinner in central london for business woman of the year (I was only a guest, nothing more).
At the table I was sat with someone who worked at the solicitor’s defending him. As a teenager I wanted to be a solicitor but my family couldn’t afford it, so I couldn’t follow my dream.
We sat and discussed jeremys case as When I followed the case on the news it didn’t add up. I was curious. I’d never heard of a miscarriage of justice and I asked if I could write to him. I really had no other motive than to know the truth I suppose...I don’t know.
So I wrote to him. I gave the solicitors address. He replied and we carried on writing. I eventually gave my own address and it went from there.
Early days compared to everyone else. I knew him in 1990.
Aunt Agatha if you knew Bamber from 1990 and were together for 18
What about the following - from Roger Wilkes book ‘Blood Relations’
‘A third such liaison met a similar fate. In 1991 a pretty 18-year-old retail trainee from Yorkshire, Nikky O’Hare, became interested in Bamber’s case and began writing to him. She visited him frequently in prison, and became involved in his efforts to have his case referred to the appeal court. In December 1992, her story appeared in a rival Sunday paper. The young woman claimed Bamber had made her pregnant during ‘steamy four-times-a-week sex sessions behind bars’ but that she had lost the child through a miscarriage. These ‘sessions’ had taken place during visiting hours. Miss O’Hare had been given accreditation to visit Bamber as a member of his defence team, and this entitled the couple to meet in a private interview room. ‘It was just a ruse for us to have sex,’ Bamber was reported as saying. The young woman in question was said to be considering a career in the police force or prison service.
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I guess it beats having it off in the loo of a plane flying into turbulence on the way to Oz... or maybe sex-mad Bamber and his floosie caused it to shake uncontrollably.
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Aunt Agatha if you knew Bamber from 1990 and were together for 18
What about the following - from Roger Wilkes book ‘Blood Relations’
‘A third such liaison met a similar fate. In 1991 a pretty 18-year-old retail trainee from Yorkshire, Nikky O’Hare, became interested in Bamber’s case and began writing to him. She visited him frequently in prison, and became involved in his efforts to have his case referred to the appeal court. In December 1992, her story appeared in a rival Sunday paper. The young woman claimed Bamber had made her pregnant during ‘steamy four-times-a-week sex sessions behind bars’ but that she had lost the child through a miscarriage. These ‘sessions’ had taken place during visiting hours. Miss O’Hare had been given accreditation to visit Bamber as a member of his defence team, and this entitled the couple to meet in a private interview room. ‘It was just a ruse for us to have sex,’ Bamber was reported as saying. The young woman in question was said to be considering a career in the police force or prison service.
I guess it beats having it off in the loo of a plane flying into turbulence on the way to Oz... or maybe sex-mad Bamber and his floosie caused it to shake uncontrollably.
The misogynistic term ‘floosie’ describes a female - It’s possible Bamber was ‘having it off’ with a male
‘The young woman claimed Bamber had made her pregnant
‘but that she had lost the child through a miscarriage
‘It was just a ruse for us to have sex,’ Bamber was reported as saying.
Is this ⬆️ a true story or fake news - does anyone know?
And could Bamber ‘father children’ ?
Further excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations
’JEREMY BAMBER SAID that he had jilted Julie Mugford, and now Geoffrey Rivlin needed to prove it to the jury. At the start of his cross-examination, he drew from Julie the admission that she had been in love with Jeremy Bamber, and that she had wanted very much to marry him. There was some doubt over whether Jeremy could father children, she said, but throughout the first flush of the romance, marriage remained a serious possibility. However, she added, at the time of the killings at White House Farm in August 1985, she was unhappy with Jeremy. ‘I was either extremely upset with him, or happy with him,’ Julie explained. ‘It was very erratic.’ Even after she had denounced Jeremy to the police, she remained in love with him. As she put it: ‘I loved him, but I didn’t know whether I could live with him or be with him. But my emotion towards him didn’t change, apart from the fact that I found it difficult to be physically close to him. There was a terror that now had been created. I still loved him.’
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The misogynistic term ‘floosie’ describes a female - It’s possible Bamber was ‘having it off’ with a male
No, she was a floosie... or a very well-disguised transmooslie...
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No, she was a floosie... or a very well-disguised transmooslie...
Bamber lies
This could have been one of the male air stewards
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Bamber lies
This could have been one of the male air stewards
Most likely the product of a very vivid imagination trying to impress his latest gullible correspondent.
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Most likely the product of a very vivid imagination trying to impress his latest gullible correspondent.
He’s triangulating whoever he wrote to
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I have to say that this doc was has been a bit of a damp squib all round.
It's just a patchwork of talking heads telling their personal stories.
What do make of the way the ‘patchwork’ has been pieced together - like for example when Barbara Wilson says something like Bamber had falling in with the wrong crowd then the next clip is of a plane and airport and then
Brett Collins?
And Carol Ann Lee lumping Julie all in with the caravan burglary but then Mick Ainsley then being filmed saying she was sat outside in the car?
How do you think people like Brett Collins and Carol Ann Lee will feel about the way it’s been edited and presented and how they’ve been portrayed?
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Most likely the product of a very vivid imagination trying to impress his latest gullible correspondent.
When and how did Bamber meet the air steward who apparently rented the flat below Brett Collins house in New Zealand ?
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Is there any evidence Jeremy Bamber ever used a food mixer?
Maybe Bamber’s analogy came from someone like Trudi? 🙄
He didn’t say anything like this during his murder trial
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What do make of the way the ‘patchwork’ has been pieced together - like for example when Barbara Wilson says something like Bamber had falling in with the wrong crowd then the next clip is of a plane and airport and then
Brett Collins?
And Carol Ann Lee lumping Julie all in with the caravan burglary but then Mick Ainsley then being filmed saying she was sat outside in the car?
How do you think people like Brett Collins and Carol Ann Lee will feel about the way it’s been edited and presented and how they’ve been portrayed?
I think with Barbara Wilson reference, Brett Collins was the only contributor to the programme who shared with Bamber those drug fuelled, nightclub days. I can only remember one other 'friend' who made a contribution, and I'm not sure he was involved so much with his kind of 'playboy' image (or wannabe playboy image).
I believe Brett was the one who tried to broker the failed deal to sell images of Sheila to the Sun, so he must have been a very unsavoury character in those days, which chimes with BW's comment.
With Julie Mugford, I'm not sure of her actual level of involvement in the burglary, obviously Jeremy was boss, and it was his idea, but Julie always seems to be by his side when he planned his criminal activities. There is a possibility (although no real evidence) that she watered down her level of involvement to the police for all the crimes that Jeremy committed.
Carol Ann Lee spent 4 or 5 years researching and writing her book, and apart from the huge amount of detail in the book, it is also objective in its tone. It doesn't take sides (apart from at the end), so I'd be inclined to believe Carol Ann Lee.
This documentary was purely just a series of talking heads with some archive footage. There was no independent analysis whatsoever of anything, apart from what a a couple of interviewees said. Nothing though, from Bamber supporters.
Brett Collins comes across well, he didn't have to say anything about the unsavoury things he got up to with Bamber.
Carol Ann Lee got to make her little speech at the end about defending Sheila, so I'll think she'll be happy overall. CAL has always stuck up for Sheila, and had wanted Sheila's story to be told in the ITV drama, and she said it was the only thing about the ITV drama that disappointed her.
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Carol Ann Lee spent 4 or 5 years researching and writing her book, and apart from the huge amount of detail in the book, it is also objective in its tone. It doesn't take sides (apart from at the end), so I'd be inclined to believe Carol Ann Lee.
This documentary was purely just a series of talking heads with some archive footage. There was no independent analysis whatsoever of anything, apart from what a a couple of interviewees said.
Carol Ann Lee got to make her little speech at the end about defending Sheila, so I'll think she'll be happy overall. CAL has always stuck up for Sheila, and had wanted Sheila's story to be told in the ITV drama, and she said it was the only thing about the ITV drama that disappointed her.
In 2015 Carol Ann Lee was asked something like,
‘So is he, a psychopath? After reading his constant protestations of innocence, does she believe him - or does she think he is, after all, guilty?’
Her reply back in July 2015 was,
‘I'd rather not say’
‘I want people to approach the book with an open mind: to look at the evidence, and draw their own conclusions’
https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/13520876.did-jeremy-bamber-kill-his-family-30-years-ago-make-up-your-own-mind-says-local-author-carol-ann-lee/
However in her own article for the Daily Mail made around the same time (July 2015) she stated,
‘He has professed his innocence ever since. However, the psychiatrist engaged by Bamber’s defence team said that his very real belief that he had not committed the murders was a prime reason for diagnosing him as a psychopath.
Concluding that he did kill his family and had suppressed the knowledge until it no longer existed, he added: ‘If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber.’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3157376/Now-know-Bamber-did-Crime-writer-s-definitive-verdict-public-schoolboy-slaughtered-entire-family-30-years-ago-tried-frame-dead-sister-protested-innocence.html
Fast forward to 2020 - Media headlines on Carol Ann Lee read,
‘Jeremy Bamber ‘new evidence’ slammed by woman who ‘doesn’t doubt he's guilty’’
‘But author Carol Ann Lee said "nothing" made her doubt Bamber's guilt and claims the evidence is "absolutely not new."
‘She told Sun Online: "Nothing I saw made me doubt his guilt. There really wasn’t anything, from my personal view point.’
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/jeremy-bamber-new-evidence-slammed-21339100
What was it about the ITV drama series disappointed Carol Ann Lee?
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I think with Barbara Wilson reference, Brett Collins was the only contributor to the programme who shared with Bamber those drug fuelled, nightclub days. I can only remember one other 'friend' who made a contribution, and I'm not sure he was involved so much with his kind of 'playboy' image (or wannabe playboy image).
Are you referring to Rodney Brown - then owner of the Caribbean cottage ?
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I believe Brett was the one who tried to broker the failed deal to sell images of Sheila to the Sun, so he must have been a very unsavoury character in those days, which chimes with BW's comment.
On his own?
This is what the CT are suggesting now too - at around 5:40 ⬇️
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/jeremy-bamber-and-white-house-farm/id1555731881?i=1000536946527
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With Julie Mugford, I'm not sure of her actual level of involvement in the burglary, obviously Jeremy was boss, and it was his idea, but Julie always seems to be by his side when he planned his criminal activities. There is a possibility (although no real evidence) that she watered down her level of involvement to the police for all the crimes that Jeremy committed.
Point me to Julie’s evidence you think she ‘watered down’
She was clearly in a toxic relationship
Further excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations
’JEREMY BAMBER SAID that he had jilted Julie Mugford, and now Geoffrey Rivlin needed to prove it to the jury. At the start of his cross-examination, he drew from Julie the admission that she had been in love with Jeremy Bamber, and that she had wanted very much to marry him. There was some doubt over whether Jeremy could father children, she said, but throughout the first flush of the romance, marriage remained a serious possibility. However, she added, at the time of the killings at White House Farm in August 1985, she was unhappy with Jeremy. ‘I was either extremely upset with him, or happy with him,’ Julie explained. ‘It was very erratic.’ Even after she had denounced Jeremy to the police, she remained in love with him. As she put it: ‘I loved him, but I didn’t know whether I could live with him or be with him. But my emotion towards him didn’t change, apart from the fact that I found it difficult to be physically close to him. There was a terror that now had been created. I still loved him.’
Julie, and Brett Collins, recalled incidents where Bamber displayed violence towards her, others and inanimate objects
Excerpt for one of Julies witness statements
‘I asked him why he had smashed the door and he told me he was upset that I should believe a girl from the village who I did not know and not him about the three in a bed incident.’
‘He and Collins frequented the nightspots of Auckland, and he recalls Bamber being a Jekyll and Hyde character who didn't get on easily with his friends. Bamber got kicked out of one upmarket bar for being aggressive.
"When he got out of it he changed, he could be quite nasty.
"He upset a lot of my friends. They didn't want to know him. He'd be really forceful in his thoughts."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer
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Nothing though, from Bamber supporters.
Have you forgotten about Lorraine - who Mindhouse used to start off their first episode ?
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Brett Collins comes across well, he didn't have to say anything about the unsavoury things he got up to with Bamber.
Other than loading a van with furniture - what unsavoury things did he say he got up to with Bamber during the recent docuseries ?
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https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/jeremy-bamber-and-white-house-farm/id1555731881?i=1000536946527
Interestingly the CT have chosen to only mention Rodney Brown going to collect Bamber - no mention of Angela Greaves being with him
‘’After the hearing, Jeremy was met by Rodney Brown, owner of the Caribbean cottage, who had borrowed a white Jaguar for the occasion. Sitting beside him was Angela Greaves, Virginias older sister. A beautician six years Jeremy’s senior, ‘Anji’ had quickly grown close to Jeremy following his visits with Virginia. ‘The poor chap was on Valium and he was drinking. He had no body to turn to. His relatives were fighting over everything. It was awful, absolutely awful.’ Anji later told the Sun that she and Jeremy became lovers before his arrest and that it was their affair, rather than his with her sister, that had led to Julie being so inflamed with jealousy that she named his as the murderer.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rj14BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=jeremy+bamber+rodney+brown+anji&source=bl&ots=h8PnOFTeYj&sig=ACfU3U25vYTa3CZuagVZ6JIVTldkpqFrCQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC6MnRs4TpAhWJXhUIHQ3YDioQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20rodney%20brown%20anji&f=false
And it was a white ‘Daimler’ apparently not a ‘white Jaguar’
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_Sovereign
@)(++(*
The CT appear to be referring to some of the police surveillance records
The police surveillance records apparently states,
‘Jeremy spent Sunday in convent garden with a further visit to the gym and in the evening he met up with his friend Angela Greaves and they went for a meal together before Jeremy made his was back alone to Sheila’s flat
The CT has also stated David Napley* was apparently Anji (& Virginia ?) Greaves godfather
’During this time Anji Greaves, the sister of Virginia - Jeremy’s girlfriend at the time - told him she would ask her godfather Sir David Napley* of Kingsley Napley solicitors if he would be able to help with Jeremy’s defence case…’
There is also reference to Carol Ann Lee and her ‘poorly researched’ book @)(++(*
I remain of the view Carol Ann Lee’s book has been meticulously researched - although as I don’t agree with all of her interpretations
*Napley had a particular interest in miscarriages of justice. He was instrumental in setting up the Tom Sargant Memorial lecture and gave the first lecture in 1989. In that lecture he called for an independent tribunal to deal with miscarriage of justice cases. Partly as a result of Napley's reputation and wide-ranging influence, the Criminal Cases Review Commission was eventually established 14 years later.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Napley
Star solicitor helped VIP avoid paedophilia prosecution
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/star-solicitor-helped-vip-avoid-paedophilia-prosecution/5103226.article
’Peter Hayman named as VIP who sexually abused boys at Dolphin Square apartment complex near Parliament’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827378/Diplomat-Peter-Hayman-named-VIP-sexually-abused-boys-Dolphin-Square-apartment-complex-near-Parliament.html
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The CT has also stated David Napley* was apparently Anji (& Virginia ?) Greaves godfather
’During this time Anji Greaves, the sister of Virginia - Jeremy’s girlfriend at the time - told him she would ask her godfather Sir David Napley* of Kingsley Napley solicitors if he would be able to help with Jeremy’s defence case…’
’Allegations of child sexual abuse linked to Westminster Investigation Report’
https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/westminster/part-h-prosecutorial-decisions/h3-sir-peter-hayman
Did Bamber tell Aunt Agatha of the Greaves sisters alleged links to David Napley ?
I’m guessing if true Bamber would have known this when he supposedly turned up at Anji Greaves flat in Kensington, London ‘two days after his parents were buried’
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I’m guessing if true Bamber would have known this when he supposedly turned up at Anji Greaves flat in Kensington, London ‘two days after his parents were buried’
Changes the narrative too and makes sense why Bamber seemingly targeted the Greave sisters
’Jeremy wanted Sir David Napley, the best-known solicitor in London, to defend him. Napley’s reputation for taking on tough defences was as imposing as his gold-coloured Rolls-Royce. (Jeremy approached the seventy-old Sir David through his new girlfriend, Anji Greaves, sister of Virginia.)
http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.com/2011/02/innocent-man-part-11.html
Anji Greaves married in July 1985
And it seems none of those people who support him have a clue about whether he was with Anji or Virginia
Excerpt from Roger Wilkes Blood Relations
’From the moment he was arrested and charged on five counts of murder, Jeremy went to great lengths to see that his defence was as highly tuned as possible. He took the view that a local firm of solicitors, unused to assembling and running the defence in a high-profile murder trial, simply would not do. ‘Because of the seriousness of the charges,’ he wrote in a letter to Bruce Bowler, ‘the unusual – if not bizarre – circumstances surrounding this case and the fact of my entire innocence, I require a solicitor of immense skill and experience of complicated cases, and the backing of a very substantial team to support him, to secure my freedom.’ Bamber wanted a major player. He wanted Sir David Napley.
In 1985, Sir David was probably the best-known solicitor in London, with a reputation for tackling tough defences. In 1979, he prepared the defence for the former Liberal Party leader, Jeremy Thorpe, when he was accused of conspiracy to murder. Jeremy Bamber approached Sir David two days after his first remand appearance, through his new girlfriend, Anji Greaves, sister of Virginia.
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Changes the narrative too and makes sense why Bamber seemingly targeted the Greave sisters
And I suspect it was all part of his plan
-
Changes the narrative too and makes sense why Bamber seemingly targeted the Greave sisters
Bamber clearly discarded them both after he no longer had use for them
-
Point me to Julie’s evidence you think she ‘watered down’
She was clearly in a toxic relationship
Julie, and Brett Collins, recalled incidents where Bamber displayed violence towards her, others and inanimate objects
Excerpt for one of Julies witness statements
No actual evidence that she watered anything down, but when she met with Lewisham police who were going to take her to WHF on the morning of the murders, Julie Mugfords response to being told the whole family was dead, and it looks like Sheila did it....Julie Mugfords immediate verbal response was something like: Yes, Sheila had been acting strangely for a week or so.
Not even an 'oh my god', no hands up to face in shock. Nothing.
That response might be the kind of thing you say if you had scripted an answer before hand, possibly designed to add credence to the idea that Sheila was unstable and capable of killing her family. To me, it's suspicious. And the police officer who witnessed it also thought it was a strange reaction. And CAL thought it important enough to put in her book.
There was no shocked reaction, or even surprise. Then in the car and completely unprompted she said that she hoped she didn't have to see any dead bodies. She was as calm as you like when she said it.
It's just a strange response. In reality, Sheila hadn't been acting strange in the weeks up to the murders. So why did Julie Mugford say it? Where did that sentence come from?
Bamber may have displayed violence against Mugford, but she gave as good as she got. She wasn't scared of him. When they split up she smashed a mirror in Sheila's flat and hit Bamber, which is criminal damage and common assault on her part. Both Mugford and Bamber tell the same story about that incident. Julie then gets pinned down on the bed by Bamber, and she says to him, I'll tell the police. That last bit is her version of the story. She was happy to hit back at Bamber, and Bamber let her hit him back.
Mugford's official story say's to me that she was Bamber's sounding board. Bamber was planning a massive crime and he would have needed someone to talk about it too. He couldn't organise and plan it without confiding in someone. She was that someone.
How much more than that Julie might have been, will never be known. But there was suspicious behaviour from her. The events that are known make it plausible that she helped him organise it, and that therefore she was a fully fledged participant. There's just nowhere near enough evidence to prove it. But it is plausible.
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The CT has also stated David Napley* was apparently Anji (& Virginia ?) Greaves godfather
’During this time Anji Greaves, the sister of Virginia - Jeremy’s girlfriend at the time - told him she would ask her godfather Sir David Napley* of Kingsley Napley solicitors if he would be able to help with Jeremy’s defence case…’
Roger Wilkes
‘He wanted Sir David Napley. In 1985, Sir David was probably the best-known solicitor in London, with a reputation for tackling tough defences. In 1979, he prepared the defence for the former Liberal Party leader, Jeremy Thorpe, when he was accused of conspiracy to murder. Jeremy Bamber approached Sir David two days after his first remand appearance, through his new girlfriend, Anji Greaves, sister of Virginia.
According to Anji Greaves, Bamber had taken up with her two days after his parents’ funeral. They had been friends for years, but never lovers. But when Jeremy called at her London flat to ask her advice on getting rid of Julie Mugford, the couple ended up in
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Mugford's official story say's to me that she was Bamber's sounding board. Bamber was planning a massive crime and he would have needed someone to talk about it too. He couldn't organise and plan it without confiding in someone. She was that someone.
Don’t be silly
How many mass murderers do you know who’ve sat down with a ‘sounding board’ before they’ve committed murder
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No actual evidence that she watered anything down, but when she met with Lewisham police who were going to take her to WHF on the morning of the murders, Julie Mugfords response to being told the whole family was dead, and it looks like Sheila did it....Julie Mugfords immediate verbal response was something like: Yes, Sheila had been acting strangely for a week or so.
Not even an 'oh my god', no hands up to face in shock. Nothing.
That response might be the kind of thing you say if you had scripted an answer before hand, possibly designed to add credence to the idea that Sheila was unstable and capable of killing her family. To me, it's suspicious. And the police officer who witnessed it also thought it was a strange reaction. And CAL thought it important enough to put in her book.
I don’t agree with Carol Ann Lee’s interpretations on some of the things she’s written in her book - although I’ve only read what’s available on google books - I’ve not read the entire thing
What did Carol Ann Lee say about the Lewisham police officer?
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And CAL thought it important enough to put in her book.
And for some reason she also thought it important to lump Julie into the caravan break-in with Bamber during the Mindhouse TV docuseries ?
Carol Ann Lee stated during the 3rd episode of the Mindhouse TV production,
‘When Julie Mugford went to the police she confessed to them that five months before the murders she and Jeremy had burgled his parents caravan site business - the night that they staged the break in Jeremy had actually persuaded his father not to bank the cash that was in the safe. They stole £980 that night which was a substantial amount of money at that time especially and they tried to make it look like an outside job’
Barbara Wilson then stated,
‘He heard about the robbery village gossip really. Mr Bamber said it was an outside job and a couple of days later he said erm we know who who did it and I actually did say was it someone quite near he said yes I’m afraid it was Jeremy but we don’t want other people to know
Carol Ann Lee then states,
‘Although it wasn’t on the level of the murders by any stretch of the imagination it does show certain traits in Jeremy’s personality erm it was a crime about money it was a crime committed against his parents he’d involved Julie beforehand during and afterwards and it also showed that he was capable of staging a crime scene
Julie was sat outside in the car, as Mick Ainsley stated, therefore she couldn’t have staged the crime scene
Although Mick Ainsley made the mistake of saying ‘The only evidence of the burglary was from Julie‘
There was also the evidence of Barbara Wilson ⬇️
‘He heard about the robbery village gossip really. Mr Bamber said it was an outside job and a couple of days later he said erm we know who who did it and I actually did say was it someone quite near he said yes I’m afraid it was Jeremy but we don’t want other people to know
I remain of the firm view she was manipulated by Bamber when he robbed the caravan site office
I don’t know how Carol Ann Lee has come to the conclusion Bamber involved Julie ‘beforehand during and afterwards’ ?
Julie was groomed by Bamber - he’s a psychopath
And his devaluing of her had started long before he committed the murders
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Don’t be silly
How many mass murderers do you know who’ve sat down with a ‘sounding board’ before they’ve committed murder
At the very least we know he used her as a sounding board because he was bouncing ideas off of her. He went through a number of scenarios discussing how to kill his family, who to kill and how to kill them.
Mugford always says that she didn't take him seriously, which is probably why she allowed him to talk freely about committing his crimes.
By openly discussing drugging the family, getting Mugford to let him use her sedatives to test out his theories about tranquilising everyone, and so on, that allows him to run through the alternatives and pick a most viable option.
I have no idea how a criminal mind works as I'm not a criminal and don't know any criminals. But by looking at the facts as presented to us, and assuming Julie Mugford is telling the truth, then he was using her to test out his theories.
But we only have her side of the story. Bamber is never going to admit any of this because he'd have to confess to the crime. So his side of the story will never be known.
Their relationship was volatile from both sides, they had blazing rows and Mugford was a full participant in those arguments. It wasn't one way traffic.
But at every stage of what happened there is an alternative explanation that is perfectly plausible, that Mugford was more of an accomplice than an unwitting confidant.
I'm not saying she was an accomplice, I am only recognising that such a scenario is plausible given the facts as we know them.
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At the very least we know he used her as a sounding board because he was bouncing ideas off of her.
‘Bouncing ideas off of her’ @)(++(*
He went through a number of scenarios discussing how to kill his family, who to kill and how to kill them.
If Bamber was ‘bouncing ideas’ off of Julie he was also ‘bouncing ideas’ off of his friend Charles Marsden
Excerpts from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations,
‘….another of Jeremy Bamber’s friends, the sales manager for a computer firm, called Charles Marsden. Marsden was also the boyfriend of Liz Rimington. He described how he’d become part of Jeremy’s set at the Frog and Beans wine bar in Colchester. He explained that in a crowd that included women, Jeremy would splash out with money to the extent that he could be called ‘flash’. ‘He was impressed by money,’ Marsden added. ‘He was impressed by people who spend a lot and the things that money could buy, such as expensive cars.’ Although he worked for a modest wage on his father’s farm, Jeremy had boasted that one day he would be a wealthy man. Marsden took this to mean that one day Jeremy expected to inherit his parents’ money.
‘In December 1984, Jeremy had announced that his entire family were getting together to celebrate Christmas. This was unusual. During a drinking session at a wine bar in Maldon, Jeremy had confided to Charles Marsden that if the farmhouse were to burn down over Christmas, everything would be his. ‘I thought at the time that this was a strange thing to say,’ Marsden reported, ‘but didn’t particularly take any notice.’
Mugford always says that she didn't take him seriously, which is probably why she allowed him to talk freely about committing his crimes.
Charles Marsden also seemingly didn’t take Bamber ‘seriously’
What did Bamber say to Brett Collins for example about ‘committing his crimes’ which Brett has chosen not to speak openly about - like he’s done over the photos of Sheila? ⬇️
I believe Brett was the one who tried to broker the failed deal to sell images of Sheila to the Sun, so he must have been a very unsavoury character in those days,…’
What was the date Brett Collins flew over to the UK prior to the murders and what discussions did he and Bamber have with regards ‘committing crimes’ ?
And why does Brett Collins keep bringing up ‘mercenaries’?
Is this to keep the heat off of him?
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Their relationship was volatile from both sides, they had blazing rows and Mugford was a full participant in those arguments. It wasn't one way traffic.
According to Bamber’s 2010 interview with David James Smith - audio of which was heard during the MIndhouse productions docuseries - it was
Bamber apparently never lost his temper 🙄
Bamber stated to David James Smith (Which can be heard during episode 3)
‘You learn to control your emotions’
And in episode 1 Bamber makes the false claim to David James Smith,
‘I’ve never been violent, ever’
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And for some reason she also thought it important to lump Julie into the caravan break-in with Bamber during the Mindhouse TV docuseries ?
Julie was sat outside in the car, as Mick Ainsley stated, therefore she couldn’t have staged the crime scene
Although Mick Ainsley made the mistake of saying ‘The only evidence of the burglary was from Julie‘
There was also the evidence of Barbara Wilson ⬇️
I remain of the firm view she was manipulated by Bamber when he robbed the caravan site office
I don’t know how Carol Ann Lee has come to the conclusion Bamber involved Julie ‘beforehand during and afterwards’ ?
Julie was groomed by Bamber - he’s a psychopath
And his devaluing of her had started long before he committed the murders
CAL's version of events as you have quoted is both consistent with what she wrote in her book, and also consistent with Mike Ainsley's assessment.
You are quoting two different people discussing the same persons witness statement, so there will be small differences in how they portray the story.
The following is CAL's version taken straight from her book...
Six months later, during the investigation into his family’s murders,
Jeremy admitted stealing the money. Julie had acted as his lookout and gave
a full account of the matter, recalling how the two of them had driven out to
Mill Beach Hotel after supper that evening. They parked the car and walked
along the seafront to the shop. ‘He held my hand and we walked to the
office,’ Julie recalled. ‘When we got there Jeremy told me to wait out of
sight which I did. I saw him put his hand through the letter box to find the
key which he knew would be there. He could not get the key so asked if I
could reach it. I couldn’t reach it and so he tried again and succeeded in
getting it.’6 He told her to keep watch while he went inside. After fifteen
minutes, he reappeared, having ransacked the office to make it look like a
random break-in. He put the key back through the letter box and smashed
the window. ‘Then he grabbed hold of my hand and we started to run back
the way we came,’ Julie stated.
By Mugfords own admission, she was a fully paid up participant of the caravan park theft.
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CAL's version of events as you have quoted is both consistent with what she wrote in her book, and also consistent with Mike Ainsley's assessment.
You are quoting two different people discussing the same persons witness statement, so there will be small differences in how they portray the story.
They will yes and there will be various factors as to how and why they ‘portray the story’ differently
The following is CAL's version taken straight from her book...
Six months later, during the investigation into his family’s murders,
Jeremy admitted stealing the money. Julie had acted as his lookout and gave
a full account of the matter, recalling how the two of them had driven out to
Mill Beach Hotel after supper that evening. They parked the car
There’s a problem already in the way in which Carol Ann Lee has chosen to write the above
Unless the car being driven was duel control - like some of the cars you use when learning to drive - only one of them was driving and ‘they’ couldn’t have ‘parked the car’ - only one of them would have been able to do this
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I don’t agree with Carol Ann Lee’s interpretations on some of the things she’s written in her book - although I’ve only read what’s available on google books - I’ve not read the entire thing
What did Carol Ann Lee say about the Lewisham police officer?
When Mugford went to Lewisham police station on Bamber's instructions from the 5:40am(?) phone call, I can't remember how much he told her. I can't remember if she had been told beforehand whether the whole family were dead, or just that there had been a serious incident.
This is how her interaction with Lewisham police is written in CAL's book:
At quarter past eleven they were joined by DS Stan Jones and ten
minutes later Julie arrived. The first police officer who spoke to her that
morning in Lewisham had been surprised when, in response to his question
of whether she understood there had been a serious incident involving her
boyfriend’s family, she replied calmly, ‘Yes. Sheila, his sister, had been
behaving strangely the weekend before.’2 Constable Jonathan Turner was
tasked with driving her to Tolleshunt D’Arcy: ‘She seemed very confident
and appeared intelligent. She didn’t seem at all anxious and in fact, was
very relaxed. She showed no signs of concern or anxiety.’3 Her only
reference to the shootings was the unprompted comment: ‘I hope I don’t
have to see any bodies.’
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But at every stage of what happened there is an alternative explanation that is perfectly plausible, that Mugford was more of an accomplice than an unwitting confidant.
I'm not saying she was an accomplice, I am only recognising that such a scenario is plausible given the facts as we know them.
Why’s about Brett Collins ?
What did he know ?
‘Over time I've thought about things that he did, and how he used to speak, and how greedy he was with money’
How did Bamber ‘used to speak’ to Brett Collins? What did he say exactly?
He flew over to visit Bamber prior to the murders and even left some clothes behind at Goldhanger before heading to Greece
What conversations did he and Bamber have?
‘I've still got a very clear memory of everything that happened and I'm now sure he staged it all on the day of the murders’
And why does Brett Collins keep making reference to mercenaries ?
‘….I think he paid someone to do it, which is quite common. If you want someone gone you can pay one of these ex-army types’
‘He was quite good at planning things, and he was a thinker’
How did Brett Collins know Bamber was a thinker - was it because Bamber used him as a ‘sounding board’ ?
Was Bamber ‘bouncing ideas off of’ Brett Collins prior to the murders?
Brett Collins lies ⬇️ and especially by omission
‘I got a lawyer to represent Jeremy at his court case and at that stage I believed in him.’
It was Anji Greaves who spoke with her godfather Sir David Napley who was a well known London solicitor back then apparently
So it wasn’t Brett Collins who got Bamber a lawyer to represent him it was Anji Greaves
Sources:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/chilling-slip-jeremy-bamber-made-21476865
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer
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By Mugfords own admission, she was a fully paid up participant of the caravan park theft.
Julie Mugford was manipulated
Brett Collins on the other hand doesn’t appear to have been the type of person who could be manipulated
He’s clearly a fraudster ⬇️
Auckland man fined $50k for illegally trading motor vehicles
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-man-fined-50k-for-illegally-trading-motor-vehicles/JVHA24BQAXIFXXE4D7DIBZPWTY/
Brett Collins most recent fraudulent criminal activities appear to have occurred only a few years ago
I’m of the view he knows far more about Bamber’s plans to murder his family than he’s ever let on
Brett Collins has been given the opportunity several times - with payment it seems - to tell the truth
But - on one hand he appears to accept Bambers guilt and on the other he seems to want to create doubt
Why?
What is motivating Brett Collins to give these mixed messages?
And why did he recently refer to Colchester’s army barracks and men with tattoos ?
What exactly did Brett Collins and Bamber speak about when Brett first flew to the UK?
Barbara Wilson stated (Episode 3)
‘He was getting into bad company’ - seemingly she was referring to Brett Collins
Who - it should be noted - had purchased a plane ticket to London from New Zealand ‘a couple of months before the murders’
When Brett Collins refers to his time spent with Bamber - ‘a couple of months before the murders’
He states,
‘Jeremy was very excited to have a friend thst he could go out clubbing with’
Was Bamber also ‘excited’ to have someone like Brett Collins who he could use as his ‘sounding board’?
Bamber was planning a massive crime and he would have needed someone to talk about it too. He couldn't organise and plan it without confiding in someone.
Brett Collins would be the more likely candidate for Bamber to confide in about his plans
I firmly suspect Brett Collins was ‘that someone’
How many mass murderers do you know who’ve sat down with a ‘sounding board’ before they’ve committed murder
If Bamber did need a ‘sounding board’ it would have been Brett Collins - who Bamber was idealising a couple of months before the murders - if what Brett Collins has said recently is true in that Bamber was ‘excited’
Did anyone notice how Brett Collins face lit up when he was recalling - in episode 3 of the Mindhouse docuseries - the ‘lines of cocaine’ in the ‘lav’ of Stringfello’s nightlclub ?
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This is how her interaction with Lewisham police is written in CAL's book:
At quarter past eleven they were joined by DS Stan Jones and ten
minutes later Julie arrived. The first police officer who spoke to her that
morning in Lewisham had been surprised when, in response to his question
of whether she understood there had been a serious incident involving her
boyfriend’s family, she replied calmly, ‘Yes. Sheila, his sister, had been
behaving strangely the weekend before.’2 Constable Jonathan Turner was
tasked with driving her to Tolleshunt D’Arcy: ‘She seemed very confident
and appeared intelligent. She didn’t seem at all anxious and in fact, was
very relaxed. She showed no signs of concern or anxiety.’3 Her only
reference to the shootings was the unprompted comment: ‘I hope I don’t
have to see any bodies.’
Where can I read Jonathan Turner‘s police witness statement ?
-
I’m of the view he knows far more about Bamber’s plans to murder his family than he’s ever let on
What is motivating Brett Collins to give these mixed messages?
When Brett Collins refers to his time spent with Bamber - ‘a couple of months before the murders’
He states,
‘Jeremy was very excited to have a friend thst he could go out clubbing with’
Yet also during the Mindhouse docuseries Brett Collins stated Bamber was on his own when he went out clubbing when the ‘drug deal’ went wrong
Was Bamber really on his own or did Brett Collins choose to say Bamber went out on his own so as to give the impression he wasn’t involved in the drugs deal?
Brett Collins stated,
If he had drugs or alcohol he would lose that polished personality’
How did Brett Collins behave under these circumstances ?
Brett Collins goes on to state,
‘He thought you know he was invincible’
Watch Brett Collins face again light up when he says this (Episode 3 around 40:10)
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Carol Ann Lee from 2015 ⬇️
‘I'd rather not say’
‘I want people to approach the book with an open mind: to look at the evidence, and draw their own conclusions’
https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/13520876.did-jeremy-bamber-kill-his-family-30-years-ago-make-up-your-own-mind-says-local-author-carol-ann-lee/
My conclusion (Although I’ve not read CAL’s book only snippets) is that if anyone really ‘knew’ about Bambers plans it was Brett Collins not Julie
I don’t agree with CAL here https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/ at around 28.00 Julie ‘knew’ that the murders he’d been talking about had happened that night
So far we’ve only heard about Brett Collins coming back from Greece
What motivated him in the first place to go out there?
How long was he there for?
Who was he with?
What was he doing while he was there?
Why - during the Mindhouse docuseries - did Brett Collins refer to his ‘friend’ who was a lawyer who apparently lived in New York - what was the relevance of this to the ‘Bamber’ story?
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I believe Brett was the one who tried to broker the failed deal to sell images of Sheila to the Sun, so he must have been a very unsavoury character in those days
And could still be described as an ‘unsavoury character’
He’s clearly a fraudster ⬇️
Auckland man fined $50k for illegally trading motor vehicles
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-man-fined-50k-for-illegally-trading-motor-vehicles/JVHA24BQAXIFXXE4D7DIBZPWTY/
How long was Brett Collins in the UK with Bamber prior to the murders and what did they get up to during this time?
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The CT has also stated David Napley was apparently Anji (& Virginia ?) Greaves godfather
’During this time Anji Greaves, the sister of Virginia - Jeremy’s girlfriend at the time - told him she would ask her godfather Sir David Napley* of Kingsley Napley solicitors if he would be able to help with Jeremy’s defence case…’
‘Private Eye, Public Lives’
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=48&v=TLXhl7B28Cc&feature=emb_logo
Where does this nugget fit in ⬇️
Why - during the Mindhouse docuseries - did Brett Collins refer to his ‘friend’ who was a lawyer who apparently lived in New York - what was the relevance of this to the ‘Bamber’ story?
Did Bamber and Brett Collins talk about the plans to murder the family and discuss what would happen if Bamber were caught and who would represent him?
‘I got a lawyer to represent Jeremy at his court case and at that stage I believed in him.’
Did he ?
‘He was quite good at planning things, and he was a thinker’
‘Planning’ what exactly - to murder his family?
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Brett Collins on the other hand doesn’t appear to have been the type of person who could be manipulated
I don’t believe Brett Collins narrative(s)
Roger Wilkes Blood Relations
‘Collins explained that he was a friend of Jeremy’s, who had spent three months with him in New Zealand when Brett had a catering business there. The business had since been sold, Brett Collins added, and he’d been on holiday for most of the summer, spending several weeks with Jeremy at Goldhanger. He’d been on a trip to Greece when he heard about the tragedy at White House Farm. He’d taken the first available flight to London.
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I don’t believe Brett Collins narrative
Roger Wilkes Blood Relations
‘Collins explained that he was a friend of Jeremy’s, who had spent three months with him in New Zealand when Brett had a catering business there. The business had since been sold, Brett Collins added, and he’d been on holiday for most of the summer, spending several weeks with Jeremy at Goldhanger. He’d been on a trip to Greece when he heard about the tragedy at White House Farm. He’d taken the first available flight to London.
Wasn't he lucky to have had such an airtight alibi otherwise he too could have been suspected of involvement given his close relationship with the killer.
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Wasn't he lucky to have had such an airtight alibi otherwise he too could have been suspected of involvement given his close relationship with the killer.
I’ve edited my post above as it was meant to read narrative(s) as opposed narrative
My next question is what did the police investigation uncover in relation to Brett Collins movements in the UK prior to the murders?
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There's one scene where Brett Collins is washing his car, and he say's 'This is the kind of thing Jeremy wanted', and a big smile washed over his face, then he said 'it's ironic'. When Bamber sees that, his blood is going to boil! It was worth it just for that.
A bit like a ‘duper’s delight’ smile would you say?
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Wasn't he lucky to have had such an airtight alibi otherwise he too could have been suspected of involvement given his close relationship with the killer.
‘Could have’ ?
Don’t you mean he should have ?
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Brett Collins
‘They split us up and luckily I had my Kiwi passport stamped for Greece. If I hadn't had that, I would have been dragged into it. They could have made some sort of bulls... and said we were in cahoots’
I suspect they were in ‘cahoots’ in relation to, for eg, the selling of the nude photos of Sheila
But Brett Collins doesn’t appear to want to address this after all these years
Brett Collins states - in reference to the day of the funerals of Nevill, June and Sheila,
‘Suddenly it was a major day for Jeremy to put his parents and sister to rest ‘
He then appears to laugh and puts his hand over his mouth as it to cover the laugh (During 1st episode at around 28:40)
‘I was in Greece eh when I heard about the murders I flew back to England I just was there for support if he needed me
Was this part of the plan?
Where’s Brett Collins in the funeral photos ?
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Have you forgotten about Lorraine - who Mindhouse used to start off their first episode ?
https://twitter.com/hayleydavies121/status/1443706639484338182
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Why did David James Smith say he was the first journalist to ‘officially’ interview Bamber?
How did he forget about Roger Wilkes who first met with Bamber ‘in the late summer of 1991’
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Have you forgotten about Lorraine - who Mindhouse used to start off their first episode ?
She mentioned starting work at Osea in 2016. Has she still got a job there or have they got wise?
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Did you notice Michael Fielder leading away Brett Collins after he'd been released without charge, to sell his story to the SUN for a four-figure sum? Brett Collins must have been the instigator of their scoop about Bamber and himself hawking around nude photos of Sheila Caffell, even though he vehemently denied it in his interview with Kay Page...
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Did you notice Michael Fielder leading away Brett Collins after he'd been released without charge, to sell his story to the SUN for a four-figure sum? Brett Collins must have been the instigator of their scoop about Bamber and himself hawking around nude photos of Sheila Caffell, even though he vehemently denied it in his interview with Kay Page...
Did you hear his projections at the end of the 2nd episode and beginning of the 3rd?
2nd episode
’She might have been quite an innocent girl down the track before she met him
They did have quite a closeness those two of doing bad things
I think there’s more to her than meets the eye
3rd episode
‘This is the kind of thing he wanted - Porsche - it’s ironic
Jeremy was a bit of a flash a flash joe you know they call them where they’re just nice they look nice and they live beyond their means - People think totally different of them they think they’re very successful
He did talk about wanting to get rid of the car his parents bought him he hated it it was a brand new car but he wanted a Porsche
Certain people that like that kind of thing just magnetise to him - But if they saw the other side of him of my god you know he had this this streak of destruction in him you know where he could just ruin his whole eh persona name everything people just go fffss he’s a maniac get rid of him
‘I think she had a wonderful early life with him - He’d say things like one day you and I’ll get married
They shared the mischievous side I think that she knew a rough scenario of things to come
He showed her when he did have the cash erm weekends away and erm lavish dinners and then he would play on the side with other girls without her knowing - I don’t think he had any plans of marrying at all but in her mind being young she thought well no need to look any further I’ve hit the jackpot
After the funeral and that’s when things blew up she called on Jeremy and there was another girl answer the phone she realised he’d been having other affairs she realised the gravy train had ffffss gone
She could come clean with her conscience
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’After the funeral and that’s when things blew up she called on Jeremy and there was another girl answer the phone she realised he’d been having other affairs she realised the gravy train had ffffss gone
She could come clean with her conscience [/i]
Excerpt form the Daily Mail - 1st November 1986
‘And he put massive strain on that trust by blatantly arranging a date with another women while Julie, who flew into a temper, listened.
The women was beautiful Angela Greaves who phoned his cottage after the massacre and has stuck by him since his trial began.
Even while Bamber was in Norwich jail awaiting trial, Angela believed to be from Kensington, London, visited him. And she was in the public gallery several times during his 19 day trial
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Does anyone know what date Brett Collins arrived in the UK prior to the murders and on what date he departed for Greece?
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Does anyone know what date Brett Collins arrived in the UK prior to the murders and on what date he departed for Greece?
He arrived here some day after the 17th June, I think... but definitely left for three weeks in Greece on the 19th July.
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He arrived here some day after the 17th June, I think... but definitely left for three weeks in Greece on the 19th July.
Thanks
So Brett Collins could have been in ‘cahoots’ with Bamber prior to the murders and acted as his ‘sounding board’ around this time
I suspect he was
’They did have quite a closeness those two of doing bad things
I think there’s more to her than meets the eye
The way Brett Collins appears to have recently attempted to distance himself from Bamber and the drug deal that went wrong in New Zealand 🙄
’He did talk about wanting to get rid of the car his parents bought him he hated it it was a brand new car but he wanted a Porsche
Certain people that like that kind of thing just magnetise to him - But if they saw the other side of him of my god you know he had this this streak of destruction in him you know where he could just ruin his whole eh persona name everything people just go fffss he’s a maniac get rid of him
Did Brett Collins fly out to Greece because Bamber had told him he planned to murder his family?
’I think that she knew a rough scenario of things to come
I think it was Brett Collins who ‘knew a rough scenario of things to come’
’she realised the gravy train had ffffss gone
The ‘gravy train’ still being milked by Brett Collins
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The ‘gravy train’ still being milked by Brett Collins
Got a polished Porsche out of it and a little extra to pay of his debts.
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Got a polished Porsche out of it and a little extra to pay of his debts.
Was he cleaning his Porsche when the film crew turned up or did he suggest they film him cleaning it so he could gloat to Bamber?
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Here's something from episode 3 that didn't make sense to me:
Patrick O'connor QC was interviewed regarding the judges summing up, he said there was 10 pages of summing up regarding Julie mugfords evidence, but Jeremy Bambers evidence was non-existent. He then described the omission using several superlatives.
I always get suspicious when people start using superlatives willy nilly.
In the Court of Appeal notes from 2002 there is a whole section outlining Jeremy Bambers evidence as presented at trial, and it says something very different to that of Patrick O'connor QC.
From the CoA notes 2002:
The Appellant's Evidence at Trial
Paragraph 137
No transcript has survived as to the appellant's evidence in chief, although it seems clear from the summing up that it was entirely consistent with that which he had told the police.
The above quote from the CoA notes makes it clear that Jeremy Bambers evidence was summarised in the judges summing up.
After paragraph 137 there are another 7 paragraphs outlining Jeremy Bambers evidence at trial, and due to the wording, it can only have come from the judges summing up.
So why did Patrick O'connor QC say that Bambers evidence was 'non-existent' in the judges summing up?
Anthony Arlidge QC who was the prosecution lawyer at the time, said in the doc that the judge heavily favoured the prosecution case, which can annoy juries, leading them to issue a not guilty verdict just to annoy the judge (or words to that effect). Arlidge said he was worried about that.
But Arlidge never said that Bambers evidence was non-existent in the summing up.
I wonder if Patrick O'connor had the full transcript of the judges summary? And if so, how did he not notice?
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Was he cleaning his Porsche when the film crew turned up or did he suggest they film him cleaning it so he could gloat to Bamber?
Obviously the latter, a set-up.
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I wonder if Patrick O'connor had the full transcript of the judges summary? And if so, how did he not notice?
I think this is the fullest set in existence. The page numbering is consistent...
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12240.msg667324#new (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12240.msg667324#new)
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I wonder if Patrick O'connor had the full transcript of the judges summary? And if so, how did he not notice?
Patrick O’Connor was the barrister of the convicted/exonerated killer of 14 year old Judith Roberts
Interestingly Andrew Evans, who confessed to murdering Judith Roberts is listed by Dr GudJonsson as having ‘memory problems, confabulation & false internalised belief”
But could Andrew Evans have committed innocence fraud?
According to the Guardian in 2000 he was reported to have received nearly one million pounds in compensation
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jun/09/jeevanvasagar
Gudjonsson ⬇️
https://commentary.canlii.org/w/canlii/2006CanLIIDocs133.pdf
‘..Patrick O’Connor QC, argued that the conviction was unsafe because the case against him rested on his uncorroborated confession..’ 🙄
https://www.innertemplelibrary.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/MiscarriagesofJustice2017.pdf
Looks like another example of innocence fraud to me 🙄
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Obviously the latter, a set-up.
And the combing of his hair whilst looking in one of the cars rear windows? @)(++(*
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https://twitter.com/CouldMurderAPod/status/1444249341355507713 🙄
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He arrived here some day after the 17th June, I think... but definitely left for three weeks in Greece on the 19th July.
Brett Collins did state during episode 3 of the docuseries
‘I bought a ticket to London from New Zealand a couple of months before the murders - Jeremy was very excited to have a friend that he could go out clubbing with’
Hmm
This appears to be around the same time Barbara Wilson refers to ‘arguments’ between Bamber and his father Nevill
Barbara Wilson
‘There was tension between Jeremy and Mr Bamber - you could sense it - the arguments were quite fierce at times
Brett Collins
’When they were together his father was in charge but when they were apart Jeremy’s gone with his own delusion of his future life to be - erm I think it culminated after many years of festering with his parents who at that point they don’t mean anything to him (Brett makes another swooshing/whistling type noise at this point) and he err thought that he would get a clear run of a wonderful life and he’d be the boss not his dad
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I think this is the fullest set in existence. The page numbering is consistent...
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12240.msg667324#new (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12240.msg667324#new)
And the pages are numbered, so it would be hard to not notice something missing.
But the Appeal Court Judges in 2002 make it clear that they got details of the evidence that Bamber personally gave at trial, from the judges summing up. And they had official access to all of the original evidence.
Patrick O'connor does not have any access whatsoever to any of Bambers evidence. Only Bamber and his legal representative has that. Organisations representing the Crown, like the prison services, or the CCRC, will also have access which they presumably have to apply for and give valid reasons for access.
What Patrick O'Connor saw was a leaked version of it, possibly from a retired police officer, who all seem to have their own little stashes of evidence tucked away.
My feeling is that Patrick O'Connor may have sympathies with Bamber given O'Connors history of representing MoJ cases, and his comments may be exaggerated. So it might be that Julie Mugford got 10 pages of summing up, and Jeremy Bamber got 2 or 3 pages of summing up, exaggerated by O'Connor to 'non-existent'.
In the doc, Arlidge never mentioned the lack of Jeremy Bambers evidence in the judges summing up, he only said that it favoured the prosecution case.
So either the 3 judges in the 2002 CoA are wrong, or Patrick O'Connor QC is wrong.
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My feeling is that Patrick O'Connor may have sympathies with Bamber given O'Connors history of representing MoJ cases, and his comments may be exaggerated. So it might be that Julie Mugford got 10 pages of summing up, and Jeremy Bamber got 2 or 3 pages of summing up, exaggerated by O'Connor to 'non-existent'.
In the doc, Arlidge never mentioned the lack of Jeremy Bambers evidence in the judges summing up, he only said that it favoured the prosecution case.
So either the 3 judges in the 2002 CoA are wrong, or Patrick O'Connor QC is wrong.
Patrick O’Connor was also involved in the ‘Birmingham 6’ and ‘Guildford 4’ cases and was Michael Mansfield’s deputy in relation to the appeals of Reginald Dudley and Robert Maynard - both of whom were convicted of murdering William Moseley and Michael Cornwall ⬇️
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2131783.stm
‘Mending our ‘safety net.’ was written by Patrick O’Connor ⬇️
https://doughty-street-chambers.newsweaver.com/Appeals/5nlr330255r
I wonder if Ngb1066 from the blue forum knows Patrick O’Connor ?
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And the pages are numbered, so it would be hard to not notice something missing.
But the Appeal Court Judges in 2002 make it clear that they got details of the evidence that Bamber personally gave at trial, from the judges summing up. And they had official access to all of the original evidence.
Patrick O'connor does not have any access whatsoever to any of Bambers evidence. Only Bamber and his legal representative has that. Organisations representing the Crown, like the prison services, or the CCRC, will also have access which they presumably have to apply for and give valid reasons for access.
What Patrick O'Connor saw was a leaked version of it, possibly from a retired police officer, who all seem to have their own little stashes of evidence tucked away.
Why ‘possibly from a retired police officer’ - why not an ex CCRC employee for example or someone else who’s had access to it at some point or another?
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Brett Collins
’When they were together his father was in charge but when they were apart Jeremy’s gone with his own delusion of his future life to be - erm I think it culminated after many years of festering with his parents who at that point they don’t mean anything to him (Brett makes another swooshing/whistling type noise at this point) and he err thought that he would get a clear run of a wonderful life and he’d be the boss not his dad
Brett Collins recent statement ⬆️ supports what others have said about Bamber’s behaviour prior to the murders
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Here's something from episode 3 that didn't make sense to me:
Patrick O'connor QC was interviewed regarding the judges summing up, he said there was 10 pages of summing up regarding Julie mugfords evidence, but Jeremy Bambers evidence was non-existent. He then described the omission using several superlatives.
I always get suspicious when people start using superlatives willy nilly.
In the Court of Appeal notes from 2002 there is a whole section outlining Jeremy Bambers evidence as presented at trial, and it says something very different to that of Patrick O'connor QC.
From the CoA notes 2002:
The Appellant's Evidence at Trial
Paragraph 137
No transcript has survived as to the appellant's evidence in chief, although it seems clear from the summing up that it was entirely consistent with that which he had told the police.
The above quote from the CoA notes makes it clear that Jeremy Bambers evidence was summarised in the judges summing up.
After paragraph 137 there are another 7 paragraphs outlining Jeremy Bambers evidence at trial, and due to the wording, it can only have come from the judges summing up.
So why did Patrick O'connor QC say that Bambers evidence was 'non-existent' in the judges summing up?
*&^^& Tut tut tut tut tut
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Here's something from episode 3 that didn't make sense to me:
Patrick O'connor QC was interviewed regarding the judges summing up, he said there was 10 pages of summing up regarding Julie mugfords evidence, but Jeremy Bambers evidence was non-existent. He then described the omission using several superlatives.
I always get suspicious when people start using superlatives willy nilly.
In the Court of Appeal notes from 2002 there is a whole section outlining Jeremy Bambers evidence as presented at trial, and it says something very different to that of Patrick O'connor QC.
From the CoA notes 2002:
The Appellant's Evidence at Trial
Paragraph 137
No transcript has survived as to the appellant's evidence in chief, although it seems clear from the summing up that it was entirely consistent with that which he had told the police.
The above quote from the CoA notes makes it clear that Jeremy Bambers evidence was summarised in the judges summing up.
After paragraph 137 there are another 7 paragraphs outlining Jeremy Bambers evidence at trial, and due to the wording, it can only have come from the judges summing up.
So why did Patrick O'connor QC say that Bambers evidence was 'non-existent' in the judges summing up?
Why was Patrick O’Connor in the Mindhouse docuseries?
Did he contact them or did they contact him?
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Patrick O'connor does not have any access whatsoever to any of Bambers evidence. Only Bamber and his legal representative has that.
‘Mending our ‘safety net.’ was written by Patrick O’Connor[/b] ⬇️
https://doughty-street-chambers.newsweaver.com/Appeals/5nlr330255r
I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn Patrick O’Connor has spoken to people like Dennis Eady or Mark Newby etc
‘In 2017 an ‘All Party Parliamentary group on Miscarriages of Justice’ was formed. This has spawned the ‘Westminster Commission on Miscarriages of Justice’, which has been taking evidence on the efficacy of our ‘safety net.’ They ask whether the ‘real possibility’ test is too subjective?
‘If you would like to discuss this article with Patrick O’Connor QC, please email here.
The above excerpts are from Patrick O’Connors ‘Mending our ‘safety net’ blog
Westminster commission on miscarriages of justice looks at watchdog’s independence
‘Dr Dennis Eady of Cardiff University’s innocence project pointed out that the CCRC’s referrals had plummeted over the last three years – from a 20-year average of over 30 to just 13 last year. Eady said that a referral rate of ‘about 1%’ of the total number of applications represented ‘a snowball’s chance in hell’. ‘There’s a greater need now for a Royal Commission than there was in 1991. Things have got so bad, and so serious,’ he said.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/westminster-commission-on-miscarriages-of-justice-looks-at-watchdogs-independence/
Mark Newby says today he ‘was dleighted to contribute to this important work’
Mark Newby
@MarkNewbyqsj
Just out the Westminister Commission Report on Miscarriages of Justice , a very important Report , I was dleighted to contribute to this important work
Quote Tweet
APPG on Miscarriages of Justice
@APPGMJ
· Mar 5
The APPG is delighted to publish the full report of the Westminster Commission on Miscarriages of Justice into the CCRC - the last chance for the wrongly convicted.
'In the Interests of Justice' is available here: …https://appgmiscarriagesofjustice.files.wordpress.com/2021/03/westminster-commission-on-miscarriages-of-justice-in-the-interests-of-justice.pdf…
Show this thread
11:37 AM · Mar 5, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkNewbyqsj/status/1367801365641240578
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Patrick O’Connor was the barrister of the convicted/exonerated killer of 14 year old Judith Roberts
14 year old Judith Roberts murder has been linked to Peter Sutcliffe 🙄 when the evidence in its entirety still points to Andrew Evans
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/tamworth-yorkshire-ripper-judith-roberts-15769992
As is Stephen Downing’s murder victim Wendy Sewell 🙄
Chris Clark ⬇️
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Ex-cop%3A+I+know+Ripper.+I%27ve+got+inside+his+head.+He+killed...-a0574392238
https://www.matlockmercury.co.uk/news/retired-detective-chris-clark-says-he-has-new-evidence-linking-yorkshire-ripper-death-bakewell-woman-wendy-sewell-2312526
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Does anyone know why David James Smith has been promoted as a ‘Sunday times journalist’ by the Mindhouse TV production and not as a journalist and ex criminal cases review commissioner (CCRC) ?
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It was widely known that some people in the establishment had a taste and a thirst for the perverse.
Peter Hayman ⬇️
’Peter Hayman named as VIP who sexually abused boys at Dolphin Square apartment complex near Parliament’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827378/Diplomat-Peter-Hayman-named-VIP-sexually-abused-boys-Dolphin-Square-apartment-complex-near-Parliament.html
However, if it's the truth you're looking for then we need to know and understand the players and their behaviours at the time.
⬇️
Star solicitor helped VIP avoid paedophilia prosecution
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/star-solicitor-helped-vip-avoid-paedophilia-prosecution/5103226.article
’Prominent defence solicitor Sir David Napley played a role in helping a public figure escape prosecution for paedophilia offences in the 1970s, it emerged today. In a vignette of a bygone age of deference, a report by the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse reveals how Napley was able to go directly to the director of public prosecutors on behalf of his client, a diplomat who was a member of the discredited Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE).
‘Today's report demolishes allegations of organised sexual abuse in Westminster. However it describes the Hayman case as 'the best example' of a culture of deference existing in the 1970s. 'There is no question but that Hayman was the beneficiary of preferential, differential and unduly deferential treatment as a person of public prominence.'
’During this time Anji Greaves, the sister of Virginia - Jeremy’s girlfriend at the time - told him she would ask her godfather Sir David Napley of Kingsley Napley solicitors if he would be able to help with Jeremy’s defence case…’
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Does anyone know why David James Smith has been promoted as a ‘Sunday times journalist’ by the Mindhouse TV production and not as a journalist and ex criminal cases review commissioner (CCRC) ?
If journalist David James Smith were still a CCRC commissioner would he be ‘strongly arguing for referral’ of Bamber’s 5 murder convictions?
March 2021
’A former commissioner, David James Smith told Newsnight that if he was still with the CCRC he would be ‘strongly arguing’ for referral. ‘’When you break it down each of the elements that led to the conviction has a weakness about them,’ he said.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/i-was-misled-oliver-campbells-lawyer-speaks-out/
Did he put himself forward to appear on the Mindhouse TV production or did they approach him?
He stated at the beginning of episode 4 of the docuseries,
‘There are anomalies in the evidence - Jeremy Bamber believes the police conspired to fit him up’
‘Since his conviction Jeremy Bamber has constantly claimed he’s innocent of these five murders - when I interviewed him in 2010 he was saying that err that he had seen other prisoners getting eaten up and bitten is what he would say you know err being a victim of a miscarriage of justice
‘It takes a particular mindset to be able to do the time as they say
‘When you’re convicted of murder as an adult you are sentenced to life imprisonment but for most people life doesn’t mean life it means thst you will come out eventually
In 1994 Jeremy Bamber was told by Michael Howard then the Home Secretary that his sentence was no longer at 25 year tariff it was actually a whole life tariff
‘So given the whole life tariff means that he will be kept in prison until he dies - so of course he’s you know he’s got no reason not to keep protesting his innocence
*&^^&
David James Smith goes on,
‘When I interviewed him he was saying that he had these two towers of papers in his cell - a hundred thousand documents he said all in these boxes and looking for ways to question the evidence that was used against him by the prosecution and that’s you know his only hope really that is to justify a new referral back to the court of appeal
*&^^&
Mindhouse TV omitted to include comments made by Judges at the ECHR in 2013 in particular Judge Power Forde
‘…. Article 3 encompasses what might be described as “the right to hope”. It goes no further than that. The judgment recognises, implicitly, that hope is an important and constitutive aspect of the human person. Those who commit the most abhorrent and egregious of acts and who inflict untold suffering upon others, nevertheless retain their fundamental humanity and carry within themselves the capacity to change. Long and deserved though their prison sentences may be, they retain the right to hope that, someday, they may have atoned for the wrongs which they have committed. They ought not to be deprived entirely of such hope. To deny them the experience of hope would be to deny a fundamental aspect of their humanity and, to do that, would be degrading.
https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/app/conversion/pdf/?library=ECHR&id=001-122664&filename=001-122664.pdf
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If journalist David James Smith were still a CCRC commissioner would he be ‘strongly arguing for referral’ of Bamber’s 5 murder convictions?
The answer to that question is no, he would not be strongly arguing for referral of Bamber's 5 murder convictions.
CAL interviewed David James Smith for her book and as she provides a source for every quote she makes in the book, this is provided in the appendix that accompanies one particular quite attributed to David James Smith:
David James Smith, author interviews, 2013. David James Smith has
asked me to point out that he has joined the CCRC as a Commissioner
since this interview, that these observations reflect his personal views
prior to joining the Commission, and that should Jeremy Bamber ever
reapply to the CCRC, his submissions would be considered by a
Commissioner or Commissioners with no previous involvement in the
case.
The quote that the above disclaimer refers to is the following quote made by David James Smith:
The CCRC have bent over backwards to be fair
to him. He’s had free access to all the papers, but ultimately nothing has so
far emerged that makes it likely he didn’t do it. And it’s incredibly easy to
pick away at inconsistencies – which there are bound to be in a case as
tragic, complex and far-reaching as this one. But it’s no good focusing on
little details, you have got to look at the whole picture. It’s not enough to
pull out this and that – everything has to be examined in context. That’s
been done, but it hasn’t made any difference to his incarceration
As far as I can see, David James Smith believes Jeremy Bamber to be guilty. Maybe he hasn't always felt that way, but in 2013, when he was interviewed by CAL, he gives every indication that he thinks Bamber is guilty.
-
The answer to that question is no, he would not be strongly arguing for referral of Bamber's 5 murder convictions.
CAL interviewed David James Smith for her book and as she provides a source for every quote she makes in the book, this is provided in the appendix that accompanies one particular quite attributed to David James Smith:
David James Smith, author interviews, 2013. David James Smith has
asked me to point out that he has joined the CCRC as a Commissioner
since this interview, that these observations reflect his personal views
prior to joining the Commission, and that should Jeremy Bamber ever
reapply to the CCRC, his submissions would be considered by a
Commissioner or Commissioners with no previous involvement in the
case.
The quote that the above disclaimer refers to is the following quote made by David James Smith:
The CCRC have bent over backwards to be fair
to him. He’s had free access to all the papers, but ultimately nothing has so
far emerged that makes it likely he didn’t do it. And it’s incredibly easy to
pick away at inconsistencies – which there are bound to be in a case as
tragic, complex and far-reaching as this one. But it’s no good focusing on
little details, you have got to look at the whole picture. It’s not enough to
pull out this and that – everything has to be examined in context. That’s
been done, but it hasn’t made any difference to his incarceration
As far as I can see, David James Smith believes Jeremy Bamber to be guilty. Maybe he hasn't always felt that way, but in 2013, when he was interviewed by CAL, he gives every indication that he thinks Bamber is guilty.
What were the seemingly mixed messages he gave during his July 2021 speech at Sussex University all about then?
⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg660802#msg660802
And how does he come across to you during the Mindhouse docuseries?
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David James Smith on executioner, child killer and sexual predator Jeremy Bamber ⬇️
July 2010
“Reader, I have no idea”
(See end of last para here ➡️ http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf)
2013
As far as I can see, David James Smith believes Jeremy Bamber to be guilty. Maybe he hasn't always felt that way, but in 2013, when he was interviewed by CAL, he gives every indication that he thinks Bamber is guilty.
July 2021
I remember saying at the end of the article I wrote that I had no idea of his innocence or guilt. I had put the case for and against and now it was up to readers. “Reader you decide”, I wrote quite grandly.
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/crime/newsandevents
My communication with David James Smith stopped in/around July 2019 after he asked me to let him know how I got on with the Westminster Commission
He sent me a link on ‘how to make a submission’ and wished me luck
I’d sent him a link re Michelle Diskin Bates where she stated, “Barry is guilty and I am complicit” and I stated, ‘A Freudian slip perhaps?’
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Why did David James Smith say he was the first journalist to ‘officially’ interview Bamber?
How did he forget about Roger Wilkes who first met with Bamber ‘in the late summer of 1991’
Bamber was ‘officially’ visited by journalist Roger Wilkes several times before David James Smith ⬇️
Excerpts from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations
‘When this book originally appeared in 1994, it was the first to examine his case in detail, and the first to feature Bamber’s own voice – the result of personal interviews conducted by me, either in written questions and answers traded by post or face-to-face in prison day-rooms and, later, through screens of toughened glass in high-security jails.
‘When Nick Robinson, the book’s original publisher, commissioned the opinion of the world’s leading authority on blood evidence, the photographs convinced the expert that Sheila, like the others, had been murdered.
What ‘photographs’ did Nick Robinson have and what photographs did he pass to the ‘worlds leading authority on blood evidence’?
‘I first wrote to Jeremy Bamber in the spring of 1991, shortly after I began to consider a book about his case. He replied briskly, pointing out that I was by no means the first journalist to approach him about his story, and asking me not to contact him again unless I was prepared to help him. He needed to commission a new and independent ballistics report from a world-class expert in the United States. Without legal aid, his fortune forfeited by dint of his conviction for murder, Bamber had no money of his own to pay for it. The American report would be his lifeline; without it there would be no prospect of a full appeal hearing, and no co-operation for me. I met him for the first time in the late summer of 1991, at Gartree Prison in Leicestershire.
‘Fresh evidence brought to light by him and others would, if substantiated, suggest a conspiracy between Essex Police and a vindictive Bamber family set on nailing Jeremy for the killings at White House Farm. In 1991, from his cell, Bamber wrote to a world authority on forensic ballistics, Dr Herbert Leon MacDonell, in New York, enclosing the details. Dr MacDonell replied saying that in his initial opinion the evidence of the Crown’s chief forensic witness at the trial was suspect. Bamber was convinced that a formal report from MacDonell would tip the scales in favour of his case being referred to the Court of Appeal. It turned out rather differently, as I explain in these pages.
‘Four days before the following Easter I drove up to Frankland. There had been a delay in processing my clearance to visit and I was told I could see Bamber only under ‘closed’ conditions. Instead of the modestly cheerful day-room in which we had talked at Gartree over diet Cokes at small Formica-topped tables, I was led through a door and along a narrow corridor to a small room with a single chair and a glass screen. Almost at once, Bamber appeared at the other side, dressed in striped prison fatigues and sporting a goatee beard and moustache at the request, he said, of a new girlfriend.
‘When the journalist David James Smith visited him there in 2010 and asked him what he missed about the outside world twenty-four years into his time, Bamber welled up and said he didn’t know because he has forgotten what outside was like.
‘The detective who took over the investigation after Taff Jones’s death said Bamber’s appeal was based on fabrication and lies.
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Bamber was ‘officially’ visited by journalist Roger Wilkes several times before David James Smith
He says at the beginning of the first episode of the 4 series docu series he doesn’t know if other journalists have visited Bamber in prison
“I don’t know if other people have gone to visit him as journalists but I had an official visit in twenty ten and I was there first and then he suddenly appeared through a locked door accompanied by two prison officers’
’JEREMY Bamber is more like an "ageing accountant" than a mass murderer, according to a crime author and journalist, who interviewed the killer in prison.
https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1496769/jeremy-bamber-sky-crime-series
‘Asked if he believed what Bamber was saying, he replied:“I had no reason to disbelieve what he was saying.”
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Has morally duplicitous Michelle Diskin Bates not yet seen the Mindhouse TV docuseries ?
At the bottom of this blog https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html
It’s says,
Article in The Justice Gap by Michelle Bates
Posted by Jeremy Bamber at Thursday, August 04, 2016
The article was published 13th Feb 2015 here https://www.thejusticegap.com/innocent-innocent-enough/
At the end of the article Michelle Diskin Bates states,
“Surely the state has a moral duty to correct its wrongs and to reinstate that which was wrongly taken away?”
Michelle Diskin Bates should consider her own ‘morals’ before making demands of others.
When does she plan to ‘correct’ her own wrong-doings??
For example,
it’s been pointed out to her numerous times nighttime TV didn’t exist in 1985 yet she chooses to continue to attempt to deceive others. Why? We know she ‘lurks’ on this forum by her own admissions.
(Her ‘Not innocent enough’ petition received a total of 354 signatures https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/not-innocent-enough-unlawful)
‘People who value morality and make it a part of their identity are less likely to be hypocritical
‘Hypocrites are likely to gain motivation from a desire to look good, more than an internal desire to satisfy personal goals.
‘Narcissists, either by nature or as the result of fame (Infamy), have a greater sense of entitlement and therefore are more likely to excuse themselves for their failings.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201603/5-ways-spot-the-hypocrites-in-your-life
Why is Michelle Diskin Bates choosing to be morally duplicious?
‘The idea of doubleness is at the core of duplicity. Duplicity comes from a Latin word meaning "double" or "twofold," and its original meaning in English has to do with a kind of deception in which you intentionally hide your true feelings or intentions behind false words or actions. If you are being duplicitous there are two yous: the one you're showing and the one you're hiding. And—key to the idea of duplicity—you're hiding that you in order to make people believe something that's not true.
The word is found in many works of literature, including the Bible:
The integrity of the upright guides them, but the unfaithful are destroyed by their duplicity.
— Proverbs 11:3 (New International Version)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/duplicity
Michelle Diskin Bates on the Bamber case,
‘No, I and the many others do NOT make things up in this case, everything is taken from documents”.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1225160056238460931
🎀 Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@tara_snow
@DebraClaridge
and 3 others
No, I and the many others do NOT make things up in this case, everything is taken from documents. There are just TOO MANY discrepancies and too much non-disclosure. Much is being hidden and this is not the only wrongful conviction treated in this way.
8:51 pm · 5 Feb 2020·Twitter for iPad
Sexual predator and convicted/exonerated killer Barry George ⬇️
“If people saw me in Gowan Avenue, where she lived, before that day it was because my old doctor was there and not for any other reason. It was not because I was stalking Jill.
'At first when I was questioned I forgot the name of the road because I'd changed doctors. I didn't know that I'd been in Gowan Avenue - but clearly I had.'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/dando-murder-police-to-launch-cold-case-review-of-2100-original-suspects-6816041.html
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https://twitter.com/CouldMurderAPod/status/1444249341355507713 🙄
These two appear to have realised they superimposed a photograph of Anji Greaves alongside executioner, child killer and sexual predator Bamber
They’ve opted for a single snapshot now https://twitter.com/CouldMurderAPod/status/1444619997792411649
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Is Liberty Hyde one of Yvonne Hartley’s pseudonyms?
Liberty Hyde
It was so lovely to see you and catch up on all the news. I'm very much looking forward to seeing you again very soon, and to your interview. Thank you for your kindness, friendship, hospitality and support. Xxx
(Comment under the original Facebook post)
*&^^&
Liberty Hyde
Absolutely. Another shocking MOJ with evidence and the real perpetrator known to the police as with Jeremy Bamber, and yet they continue this disgusting charade.
Barbara Stone
Hate seeing personal stuff like this in print prefer focus to be on case still I ll live with it and watch the chatter chatter in future x
On mass murderer Michael Stone https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/my-brother-didnt-kill-mum-and-daughter-254565/
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There’s a video on the UAI fb group - has anyone seen it? It’s like a cult meeting
Trudi Benjamin’s face is projected onto a screen alongside Michelle Diskin Bates
I’ve no idea what they are all singing
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Where was Angela Greaves husband whilst she was seemingly being triangulated by Bamber?
Could Virginia’s wedding have been called off - if she was getting married - and she was attempting to patch things up and Anji’s story was to help her sister
Or did Bamber put Anji up to it?
The following is an excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations and he seems to have taken Anji’s words from the Sun news story
‘I was giving him the love in bed she should have been giving him,’she told the paper. ‘She was just giving him mouth.’
Bamber went all out to smear Julie and used people to do his dirty work for him - people who had never met her
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Where was Angela Greaves husband whilst she was seemingly being triangulated by Bamber?
Perched sulking in a cuckold's cage probably.
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These two appear to have realised they superimposed a photograph of Anji Greaves alongside executioner, child killer and sexual predator Bamber
They’ve opted for a single snapshot now https://twitter.com/CouldMurderAPod/status/1444619997792411649 (https://twitter.com/CouldMurderAPod/status/1444619997792411649)
Nothing new or worthwhile listening to here... just another boring couple jumping on the Bamber podcast please-fund-me bandwagon...
https://audioboom.com/posts/7953728-the-whitehouse-farm-murders (https://audioboom.com/posts/7953728-the-whitehouse-farm-murders)
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Perched sulking in a cuckold's cage probably.
It’s possible Brett Collins met one or both of the Greave sisters when he visited with Bamber prior to the murders
Roger Wilkes Blood Relations
‘Collins explained that he was a friend of Jeremy’s, who had spent three months with him in New Zealand when Brett had a catering business there. The business had since been sold, Brett Collins added, and he’d been on holiday for most of the summer, spending several weeks with Jeremy at Goldhanger. He’d been on a trip to Greece when he heard about the tragedy at White House Farm. He’d taken the first available flight to London.
He arrived here some day after the 17th June, I think... but definitely left for three weeks in Greece on the 19th July.
Anji was due to marry in the July 1985 so what Brett Collins told Kay Page could have been related to her
Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press.And also from the police and prosecution So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
‘The Narcissists Best Play’ https://psychcentral.com/blog/psychology-self/2019/10/triangulation-and-narcissism#1
‘Within the vast catalogue of toxic behavior, triangulation is amongst the most well-known. It is very common, especially among narcissistically inclined individuals, and can be overt, or insidious, and many people dont even realize they have been triangulated until it is too late. Indeed, those who regularly manipulate others will resort to triangulation because it is an easy, low cost but high yield behavior.
Although well known in unhealthy and toxic family dynamics, its not just limited to families. Triangulation can occur in any relationship including friendships, romantic relationships, and in the work place. But what is triangulation, exactly? Why it is it such a common manipulation tactic? And how can you recognize it?
Triangulation is when a toxic or manipulative person, often a person with strong narcissistic traits, brings a third person into their relationship in order to remain in control. There will be limited or no communication between the two triangulated individuals except through the manipulator. It may appear in different forms, but all are about divide and conquer, or playing people against each other.
It is a highly effective strategy to gain an advantage over perceived rivals by manipulating them into conflicts with one another. Triangulation is the method used by narcissistically inclined individuals to soothe and protect their ego, in part because they lack whole object relations. This is the inability to see that most people have a mix of good and bad qualities and seeing things as black or white only.
Triangulation in Romantic Relationships
‘Similarly, in a romantic relationship, the manipulator will bring another person, more often than not a new romantic interest but perhaps a platonic friend, into their primary intimate relationship in order to create discord, confusion, and jealousy. The disordered individual will enjoy the attention, whether negative or positive, and may even let the triangulated individuals know about each other so they fight for their attention.
Sometimes, the triangulated individuals may not even know that they are being used to manipulate others, or only one of them may be aware. Worse still, a narcissistically inclined person may triangulate someone that they are no longer in contact with in order to control those they are in contact with.
’Louis Theroux says there’s “more to” Bamber family case in Murder at the Farm’
Excerpt:
‘Asked whether we could see a second series, he said: “I would say never say never. In the fourth episode, the possibility is raised of a third party, but it’s unlikely that we would do another series. Obviously, there’s a key contributor – Julie Mugford, who was [Jeremy Bamber’s] girlfriend at the time and a linchpin in the case. If she called up and said, ‘I’ve seen the series and I want to give you an interview and break my silence,’ then there might be a conversation to be had. The fact is, there’s still work to the case, but it’s very hard to explain.”
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/true-crime/louis-theroux-murder-at-the-farm-bamber-case-newsupdate/
What about Anji and Virginia Greaves?
How many ‘girlfriends’, or boyfriends, did Bamber have at the time he committed mass murder?
Were they also ‘key contributors’ ?
Why hasn’t Louis Theroux also considered Angela and Virginia Greaves?
And why weren’t both sisters called as prosecution witnesses?
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What does Angela Greaves witness statement to police say and why is only Virginia’s statement referred to and not hers?
Has anyone seen Anji Greaves police witness statement?
[2002] EWCA Crim 2912
113. On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila Caffell. Again Miss Mugford raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation the appellant received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Miss Mugford heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped the appellant. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. Four days later, she went to the police.
If Virginia Greaves was an ‘ex girlfriend’ of Bamber’s and had allegedly met her prior to Suzette Ford how old would she have been ?
Excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations
’French-born Suzette Ford, a striking blonde with a husband and three children, had met Jeremy in 1979, when he was eighteen, in a wine bar in North Hill, Colchester, called the Frog and Beans. In his words – ‘it was instant attraction’. Suzette was beautiful, funny and interesting, very different from the teenage girls who used to hang around the bar waiting to be chatted up by the local youths.
Was one of ‘the teenage girls who used to hang around the bar waiting to be chatted up by local youths’ Virginia Greaves?
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Has anyone seen Anji Greaves police witness statement?
[2002] EWCA Crim 2912
113. On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila Caffell. Again Miss Mugford raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation the appellant received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Miss Mugford heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped the appellant. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. Four days later, she went to the police.
If Virginia Greaves was an ‘ex girlfriend’ of Bamber’s and had allegedly met her prior to Suzette Ford how old would she have been ?
Excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations
’French-born Suzette Ford, a striking blonde with a husband and three children, had met Jeremy in 1979, when he was eighteen, in a wine bar in North Hill, Colchester, called the Frog and Beans. In his words – ‘it was instant attraction’. Suzette was beautiful, funny and interesting, very different from the teenage girls who used to hang around the bar waiting to be chatted up by the local youths.
Was one of ‘the teenage girls who used to hang around the bar waiting to be chatted up by local youths’ Virginia Greaves?
If Virginia Greaves was an ex girlfriend of Bamber’s and had ‘an affair’ with him prior to Sue Ford - she would have been what 16/17 years old?
Excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations
‘On Friday one of Jeremy’s old girlfriends, Virginia Greaves, made a chance reappearance. Virginia, a twenty-three-year-old personal assistant, had been a member of the Frog and Beans’ drinking set for about three years; she had been a girlfriend of Michael Deckers at one time, and had had an affair with Jeremy in the days before Sue Ford arrived on the scene. At the time of the Bamber killings, she hadn’t seen him for over a year. She had sent him a condolence card, but had received no response. Then, through Michael Deckers, she had heard that Jeremy was trying to find someone to rent Sheila’s old flat in Maida Vale and to act as landlady when Jeremy himself wasn’t there. The prospect appealed to Virginia Greaves, and she telephoned Jeremy at his cottage. He was out, so she left a message on his answering machine.
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Para 139 of CoA judgement
‘Apart from Julie Mugford the appellant suggested that other witnesses had told lies about him during the trial. They included Mrs Mugford, James Richards, Dorothy Foakes and Robert Boutflour.
Excerpts from Roger Wilkes
‘Arlidge moved on to the evidence of the soldier, James Richards, who shared digs with Julie Mugford and had given evidence about Jeremy saying he hated his parents. Jeremy denied saying this, but agreed it was the sort of thing that young people might say when complaining about their parents. Jeremy’s voice had now dropped to a whisper, and both the judge and Geoffrey Rivlin had to ask him to speak up so that the jury could hear. The judge was particularly anxious to hear more from Jeremy on the subject. Why should James Richards come to court and swear that Jeremy had said, with vehemence, ‘I hate my f..king parents’? The judge’s intervention seemed to silence Jeremy Bamber. ‘He said that you said it two or three times,’ the judge reminded him. ‘That is what he said,’ Jeremy agreed. Mr Justice Drake was not satisfied. ‘Can you explain to the jury why you think that man should come along and give that evidence to this court if it is not true?’ Jeremy paused. ‘I can only surmise, my lord, that people’s recollections of such events have been changed because of the way I have been portrayed in the newspapers, because he is a friend of Julie’s, and he doesn’t know me that well. Really, I don’t know the reasons why people do this. I wish I did,’ he added. In fact, Jeremy agreed with Anthony Arlidge that everyone who had been asked about him had lied.
What did Virginia and Anji Greaves say Bamber had said about his parents?
‘Arlidge picked up the point that, throughout his evidence, Jeremy had indicated that certain witnesses were lying about their conversations with him, or their recollections of those conversations. Speaking of his uncle, Robert Boutflour, Jeremy said it was ‘very dangerous’ to guess at why he might not be telling the truth. As for James Richards, and the conversation about hating his parents, he was simply mistaken. The conversation had happened long before, and Richards had been influenced by the charges against him and the adverse publicity. The judge tried to short-circuit the point. ‘You think that the allegations and publicity against you have affected them?’ ‘Well, I’m sure it has,’ Jeremy replied. The judge asked if he had any comment on the other witnesses. Jeremy said he thought there were only two people who were actually lying: Julie Mugford – who had just made up her story – and Robert Boutflour.
With that, Anthony Arlidge proceeded with his questions. At length he came to the night of the murders, and the episode in which Jeremy had taken the loaded .22 Anschutz to shoot some rabbits. On his return, and not having fired a shot, he left it in the kitchen.
A dangerous thing to do? suggested Arlidge.
Yes, Jeremy agreed, and he now wished he hadn’t done it.
‘Just think about it for a minute. How long do you think it would have taken you to carry that gun and that magazine and put them in the den and gone out the back door?’
‘Yes,’ Jeremy replied quietly, ‘I wish I had done it now.’
‘How long would it have taken you?’
‘Well, minutes really. Seconds. Not very long, minutes.’
‘Seconds?’ ‘Well.’
Arlidge sensed his quarry tiring. ‘Thirty seconds, you could have done it, couldn’t you?’ The answer was little more than a mumble.
‘Maybe I could have done it, yes.’ Then a pause. ‘I was being lackadaisical,’ he added, as if to himself.
‘Pardon?’ said Arlidge, ‘You were being lackadaisical?’ Silence. ‘You are whispering now,’ observed the judge.
“Sorry,’ murmured Jeremy Bamber.
‘Everything plays on . . . hangs on every word, my lord.’ ‘You were reducing your answer to a whisper,’ the judge repeated.
‘It was something to myself, my lord.’ Arlidge pressed home. ‘You said, “I was being lackadaisical,” didn’t you?’ No answer. ‘Didn’t you?’
‘That is what I said to myself, yes.’
But Jeremy’s original explanation for leaving the loaded gun lying around was that he was in a hurry to get back to the field for the combine. Jeremy agreed he was in a hurry, adding that he still should have put the weapon back in the gun cupboard.
‘But I didn’t know what was going to happen, did I?’
‘You are not telling the truth about it, are you?’
‘That,’ Jeremy Bamber replied softly, ‘is what you have got to try and establish.’
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Did you notice Michael Fielder leading away Brett Collins after he'd been released without charge, to sell his story to the SUN for a four-figure sum? Brett Collins must have been the instigator of their scoop about Bamber and himself hawking around nude photos of Sheila Caffell, even though he vehemently denied it in his interview with Kay Page...
Brett Collins and Bamber’s meeting with Michael Fielder in the Nags Head pub Chelmsford ⬇️
Bamber and his mate Brett collins had been rooting round Sheila flat loking for money and valuables to tide Bamber over until the wills were sorted out, they found nothing..except the nude pictures of sheila.
Jeremy and Brett discussed what they should do with their find, Bamber was certain the photographs would prove to be a little gold mine he needed to carry him over the next few months.
They decided the quickest and easiest way to make money from them would be to sell thm to a newspaper, Brett suggested the Sun. Brett already had dealings with one of its reporters. collins rang The sun and asked to speak to Michael Fielder, Fielder had folloewd the WHF story closely.
They arranged a meeting in the Nags Head Pub in Chelmsford.
The three met up and Fielder was amazed at the attitude of the young men "Collins and Bamber turned up and we had a few drinks and a snack" remembered Fielder. "They were sniggering and giggling together like a couple of schoolboys. i asked them about the photographs and Bamber said "oh, they are really good pictures of bambi-with the biggest vibrator you ever saw"
Fielder said "they gave me the impression that the pictures showed bambi doing things to herself with the vibrator, the two men were laughing and sharing in jokes".
But Bamber and Collins went further with their scandalous hints, according to the reporter. "They were trying to give me the impression that Bambi and jereny had been with each other. there was was loads of innuendo about Bamber and his involvment with her. it was all crude suggestiveness and snigger snigger.
the trio discussed the proposed sale for an hour. bamber was asking a price of £20,000 for about twenty topless and nude colour transparencies. "they show everything, right down to the last detail. Tehy are really good pictures" said jeremy. bamber also discussed the possibility of selling unpublished pictures of his parents and murdered nephews, Bamber said he would be looking for a substantial sum and would be prepared to sell his own life story.
Fielder said he was amazed at the complete callousness displayed by bamberand was keen to follow up this incredible turn of events to see where it led. bamber had not brought the photos with him so they made arrangments to meet at Sheilas Morshead mansions flat.
Fielder phoned the Sun and the Editor was of the opinion that Bamber trying to sell nude pictures of his dead sister appalling. he said "tell the b........ to stick his pictures". Editor told fielder to write a story of what bamber had tried to do, Filder id as the editor asked but thinks it was a mistake.Fielder wanted to go along with the pretence of buying them so that he could check they actually existed.
Fielders story on the attempted sale of the pictures by bamber appeared in the next edition of the sun. Discouraged by the failed attempt the pair never got intouch with the sun again.
Michael Fielder reflected on the episode " i have been in this job for 20 yrs and i have seen a lot of terrible crimes, but this one sent chills down my spine. it was really incredibly bad and bamber himself sent a shiver through me when i was talking to him. of course i knew the police wre sure he had done it so i went to the meeting with a certain view of him. i found it amazing that he could be so self assured, arrogant, not caring at all about what had happened.
By the way Fielder DID make a statement to the police about the episode, the police even asked Fielder if he would give evidence in court should he be needed.
Would be great to get hold of that statement. So anyone who says there is no evidence that bamber tried to sell his dead sisters private pictures, well now we know !!!
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’Louis Theroux says there’s “more to” Bamber family case in Murder at the Farm’
Excerpt:
‘Asked whether we could see a second series, he said: “I would say never say never. In the fourth episode, the possibility is raised of a third party, but it’s unlikely that we would do another series. Obviously, there’s a key contributor – Julie Mugford, who was [Jeremy Bamber’s] girlfriend at the time and a linchpin in the case. If she called up and said, ‘I’ve seen the series and I want to give you an interview and break my silence,’ then there might be a conversation to be had. The fact is, there’s still work to the case, but it’s very hard to explain.”
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/true-crime/louis-theroux-murder-at-the-farm-bamber-case-newsupdate/
Brett Collins
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Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’They were kind of part-time whenever he wanted sex* I gathered, she wasn’t, she hadn’t moved in. I don’t think he wanted her to move in because there were other girls that were coming and going
The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
I knew her through Jeremy and I knew her younger sister because she came and stayed with us in London in the townhouse.
She posed as Jeremy’s sort of other girlfriend but it wasn’t her at all it was her younger sister and they all went to ground just so they wouldn’t bring any heat on the sister that who was getting married’
Was Brett Collins referring to the sisters going ‘to ground’ prior to the murders?
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’Louis Theroux says there’s “more to” Bamber family case in Murder at the Farm’
Excerpt:
‘Asked whether we could see a second series, he said: “I would say never say never. In the fourth episode, the possibility is raised of a third party, but it’s unlikely that we would do another series. Obviously, there’s a key contributor – Julie Mugford, who was [Jeremy Bamber’s] girlfriend at the time and a linchpin in the case. If she called up and said, ‘I’ve seen the series and I want to give you an interview and break my silence,’ then there might be a conversation to be had. The fact is, there’s still work to the case, but it’s very hard to explain.”
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/true-crime/louis-theroux-murder-at-the-farm-bamber-case-newsupdate/
According to Brett Collins Bamber had several girlfriends ‘at the time’
Brett Collins to Kay Page ⬇️
‘Erm way before I ever met his girlfriend - his girlfriend and he weren’t what you’d call monogamous friendship he had several girls at the same time that all thought that they err were his girlfriend
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Based on Brett Collins disclosures made via Kay Pages podcast earlier this year (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g) not only did he lie to police about having had a sexual relationship with Bamber ⬇️
Brett Collins to Kay Page (2021)
‘I first met him in New Zealand. I was renting a flat below my house to an air steward who (something) in New Zealand and they both met in Hong Kong.
Jeremy was coming to New Zealand with a diving course and they seemed to get on over a few days. So he invited Jeremy to stay in the flat, which I owned because he was doing international flights which meant he was going to be away for a few weeks. So I met Jeremy when he arrived in Auckland and I let him stay in my flat for about a month.
‘We did get on very well.. Jeremy actually bisexual and he could swing both ways depending on what mood he was in.
Originally there was more to our friendship when I first met him because I was bisexual also
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0
It seems he’s also made the suggestion both Virginia and Angela Greaves were Bamber’s girlfriends around the time - although it’s not clear when these relationships began
[2002] EWCA Crim 2912
113. On Tuesday 3 September the couple met again in London at the flat which had belonged to Sheila Caffell. Again Miss Mugford raised the question of their relationship and his part in the killing. During their conversation the appellant received a telephone call from an ex-girlfriend and Miss Mugford heard him asking her out. She became angry and threw an ornament box at a mirror and then slapped the appellant. He became very angry and twisted her arm up behind her back. Four days later, she went to the police.
What do Virginia and Angela Greaves police witness statements say exactly?
Was the younger sister, Virginia Greaves, due to get married or was Brett Collins referring to the time he first came over to the UK in June 1985 - a few weeks before Angela Greaves married in July 1985 ⬇️
Yup. I've managed to find a more detailed marriage certificate and she married in July 1985. So she was married at the time.
Bambers campaign team appear to claim Virginia Greaves was Bamber’s current girlfriend by ‘Wednesday 4 September 1985’ as they state on their website ‘On returning to Sheila’s apartment, Jeremy received a telephone call from another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves’ (https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness)
If Virginia Greaves and Bamber were in a relationship on 3rd September 1985 why did the Court of Appeal refer to her as ‘an ex-girlfriend’ ?
How and why did the Court of Appeal judges seemingly confuse Bamber’s then current girlfriend Virginia Greaves as ‘an ex girlfriend’ ?
And are Mindhouse TV saving this for a possible second series as none of the above was mentioned in their first 4 part series.
Julie Mugford was as usual portrayed as Bamber’s girlfriend or ex girlfriend, which meant the true narrative at the time -leading up to and the following the murders - wasn’t accurately depicted
Could this be what Louis Theroux meant when he stated there was ‘more to it’
‘There’s definitely more to it’ (RadioTimes, 26th Sept 2021)
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The CT has also stated David Napley* was apparently Anji (& Virginia ?) Greaves godfather
’During this time Anji Greaves, the sister of Virginia - Jeremy’s girlfriend at the time - told him she would ask her godfather Sir David Napley* of Kingsley Napley solicitors if he would be able to help with Jeremy’s defence case…’
(The above can be heard here at around 14:40 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ImwbQwGiKbc)
’Jeremy wanted Sir David Napley, the best-known solicitor in London, to defend him. Napley’s reputation for taking on tough defences was as imposing as his gold-coloured Rolls-Royce. (Jeremy approached the seventy-old Sir David through his new girlfriend, Anji Greaves, sister of Virginia.) Sir David couldn’t personally take the case and introduced one of his partners, a young solicitor called Paul Terzeon. News that Napley’s firm had agreed to handle Jeremy’s case signalled to all that the trial would be even more sensational than first suspected.
http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.com/2011/02/innocent-man-part-11.html
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Based on Brett Collins disclosures made via Kay Pages podcast earlier this year (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g) not only did he lie to police about having had a sexual relationship with Bamber ⬇️
It seems he’s also made the suggestion both Virginia and Angela Greaves were Bamber’s girlfriends around the time - although it’s not clear when these relationships began
What do Virginia and Angela Greaves police witness statements say exactly?
Was the younger sister, Virginia Greaves, due to get married or was Brett Collins referring to the time he first came over to the UK in June 1985 - a few weeks before Angela Greaves married in July 1985 ⬇️
Bambers campaign team appear to claim Virginia Greaves was Bamber’s current girlfriend by ‘Wednesday 4 September 1985’ as they state on their website ‘On returning to Sheila’s apartment, Jeremy received a telephone call from another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves’ (https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness)
If Virginia Greaves and Bamber were in a relationship on 3rd September 1985 why did the Court of Appeal refer to her as ‘an ex-girlfriend’ ?
How and why did the Court of Appeal judges seemingly confuse Bamber’s then current girlfriend Virginia Greaves as ‘an ex girlfriend’ ?
And are Mindhouse TV saving this for a possible second series as none of the above was mentioned in their first 4 part series.
Julie Mugford was as usual portrayed as Bamber’s girlfriend or ex girlfriend, which meant the true narrative at the time -leading up to and the following the murders - wasn’t accurately depicted
Could this be what Louis Theroux meant when he stated there was ‘more to it’
‘There’s definitely more to it’ (RadioTimes, 26th Sept 2021)
Most definitely there was more to it, Jeremy Bamber wasn't the only one with inside knowledge of what was going to go down.
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Most definitely there was more to it, Jeremy Bamber wasn't the only one with inside knowledge of what was going to go down.
Brett Collins interview via Kay Page can be listened to here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g
He makes several references to Anji (Angela) and Virginia Greaves but it’s not clear what time periods he’s referring to when he makes the claims he does because he seems to mix his references up and it’s not clear whether this is intentional or unintentional
Brett Collins to Kay Page (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0)
’About two weeks after this happening, the murders, she was about to get married to some guy she was engaged to but all that time she’d been having an affair with Jeremy. But they wanted to keep it from the press. So nobody actually knows this until now.
According to Kay Page only Angela Greaves married in July 1985 - although it is possible if Virginia was due to marry - the wedding could have been called off
Was Anji Grewves having ‘an affair’ with Bamber as early as June/July 1985 or earlier?
Wouldn’t she be the sister who was ‘engaged’ to be married?
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Most definitely there was more to it, Jeremy Bamber wasn't the only one with inside knowledge of what was going to go down.
I’d be interested to know when exactly Brett Collins was made aware of the supposed ‘£25-35k’ donations June Bamber was making each year to the church ?
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Most definitely there was more to it, Jeremy Bamber wasn't the only one with inside knowledge of what was going to go down.
Does Brett Collins give you the impression Jeremy Bamber has spoken to him prior to the murders about hiring a ‘mercenary’ to carry out the murders?
There’s a lot of material in Brett Collins interview with Kay Page https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g which he’s seemingly not spoken about before - or at least if he’s has its not been reported on by the media? Could it be because they may not be aware of it’s possible significance to the facts of the case against Bamber?
Brett Collins clearly said to Kay
‘I think something went wrong’
What?
What went wrong?
Brett Collins appears to say here at around 12:38 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g he was in Amsterdam or Groningen before travelling to the UK to visit with Bamber in the June of 1985
He mentions his older brother and his wife living in a ‘big house on her cousins farm’ and how he catches a train for Amsterdam to Groningen
He states,
‘So that was the start of me moving around’
Does he mean this is where he was prior to visiting Bamber in the June 85’?
And when he refers to seeing an English newspapers he seems to emphasise how he hadn’t seen one for ‘a long time’ but he was only in the UK a couple of weeks or so previously so his claim to having not seen one for ‘a long time’ doesn’t make sense?
He arrived here some day after the 17th June, I think... but definitely left for three weeks in Greece on the 19th July.
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Most definitely there was more to it, Jeremy Bamber wasn't the only one with inside knowledge of what was going to go down.
Why - when he arrived back into the UK following the murders - did Brett Collins automatically appear to think ‘someone had hired a professional’ ?
And who did he think would have done this?
Brett Collins stated to Kay Page,
‘I thought someone had hired a professional to kill so many people so quickly’
But why?
Unless..
Could Bamber have spoken to Brett Collins about this before he went to Greece ?
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Brett Collins appears to say here at around 12:38 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g he was in Amsterdam or Groningen before travelling to the UK to visit with Bamber in the June of 1985
He mentions his older brother and his wife living in a ‘big house on her cousins farm’ and how he catches a train for Amsterdam to Groningen
He states,
‘So that was the start of me moving around’
Does anyone know where Brett Collins was prior to visiting the UK in June 1985?
During the Mindhouse TV docuseries he said he bought a ticket from New Zealand to London ?
And when exactly did he visit his brother and his wife - in their ‘big house on her cousins farm’ in Groningen?
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Most definitely there was more to it, Jeremy Bamber wasn't the only one with inside knowledge of what was going to go down.
I couldn’t find a copy of Brett Collins police witness statement on the forum - is a copy available Angelo?
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I’d be interested to know when exactly Brett Collins was made aware of the supposed ‘£25-35k’ donations June Bamber was making each year to the church ?
Much has been made on -cough, cough, another forum!!!- about the VAST and one off payment Julie received for her story. I can't begin to even contemplate the wealth/disposable income necessary to donate such an amount PER ANNUM to any charity. From where would June have taken such funds? Was she wealthy in her own right, OR, was it from a joint fund. Could it have been a yearly dividend donated in its entirety?
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Much has been made on -cough, cough, another forum!!!- about the VAST and one off payment Julie received for her story.
Did Anji (Angela) Greaves receive the same amount of money or more than Julie Mugford?
And how much did Brett Collins pocket back then ?
From around 44:25 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g
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I can't begin to even contemplate the wealth/disposable income necessary to donate such an amount PER ANNUM to any charity. From where would June have taken such funds? Was she wealthy in her own right, OR, was it from a joint fund. Could it have been a yearly dividend donated in its entirety?
I’ve no idea April but it’s really interesting how Brett Collins has mentioned this recently to Kay
‘£25-35k’ each year apparently
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Why - when he arrived back into the UK following the murders - did Brett Collins automatically appear to think ‘someone had hired a professional’ ?
‘This thing popped up’
is how Brett Collins refers to the murders of Nevil, June, Sheila, Daniel and Nicholas at one point during his interview apwith Kay
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And how much did Brett Collins pocket back then ?
Apparently Brett Collins received payment for a news story after Bamber’s initial arrest for the Caravan break in and he was also apparently flown back from New Zealand and put up in a hotel in London following Bamber’s guilty verdict at trial in 1986
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I’ve no idea April but it’s really interesting how Brett Collins has mentioned this recently to Kay
‘£25-35k’ each year apparently
Brett pulling a sum out of the ether, OR Brett repeating what JB might have told him?...............as did Julie.
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Brett Collins appears to say here at around 12:38 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g he was in Amsterdam or Groningen before travelling to the UK to visit with Bamber in the June of 1985
He mentions his older brother and his wife living in a ‘big house on her cousins farm’ and how he catches a train for Amsterdam to Groningen
Brett Collins brother was also mentioned by Roger Wilkes in his book Blood Relations
’The trio travelled first class, because the trip was part holiday and part business. Jeremy and Brett wanted to buy cannabis. Brett, who had a brother living in Amsterdam, knew of a bar where cannabis was traded, and they made their purchases at lunchtime the following day, much to Julie’s disdainful irritation. At the five-star Hôtel de l’Europe, Brett and Jeremy packed the cannabis into drinking straws which were then slipped into jumbo-sized tubes of toothpaste. Jeremy had spent nearly £100 on the drug and there was so much of it that he couldn’t fit it all in, so he commandeered a bottle of Julie’s cocoa-butter skin lotion.
Although Brett tells Kay Page he didn’t use cannabis back then 🙄
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Brett pulling a sum out of the ether, OR Brett repeating what JB might have told him?...............as did Julie.
Brett Collins talks about the alleged donations to the church when referring to his stay in he UK prior to the murders
Around 8:16 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g
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Brett Collins talks about the alleged donations to the church when referring to his stay in he UK prior to the murders
Around 8:16 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g
I don’t know if Brett Collins posted the comments on the above YouTube video but if he did
He states,
‘just saw the new episode and interview about my former friend Jeremy Bamber its as close to the truth as was told by me ! as i was there before and after the murders finally some truth BRETT COLLINS NEW ZEALAND
‘you had to be there before and after to no what really hapendl! looks like jeremy had a plan all along he promised to many women marrage when he got his money!
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I’ve no idea April but it’s really interesting how Brett Collins has mentioned this recently to Kay
‘£25-35k’ each year apparently
He said Dollars (NZ presumably). £25,000 = 12,740 NZ$...
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=25000+new+zealand+dollars+to+pounds (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=25000+new+zealand+dollars+to+pounds)
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I don’t know if Brett Collins posted the comments on the above YouTube video but if he did
He states,
‘just saw the new episode and interview about my former friend Jeremy Bamber its as close to the truth as was told by me ! as i was there before and after the murders finally some truth BRETT COLLINS NEW ZEALAND
‘you had to be there before and after to no what really hapendl! looks like jeremy had a plan all along he promised to many women marrage when he got his money!
Still can't spell... poor lad.
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Please Lord, Let this be the last we hear or read of any imaginary phone call that Nevill Bamber made to the police, AMEN.
Transcript of former PC, Michael West's appearance on the Mindhouse series, Episode 4 (around 30:50 mins in)...
Thirty years is a good time to come round and say -"That's not what happened". The phone call from Jeremy to me has always been a matter of interest to others.
This is the log of my phone call that I received from Jeremy, timed 03.36. (see attachments)
I'm the receiver 1990 - that was my Collar number. I've written - Father phoned Age 62 - "Please come over, your sister has gone crazy and has the gun" - the phone went dead.
So if you then look at the log that Malcolm Bonnett started... the sender he's recorded as CD, in brackets 1990. So the person who spoke to Malcolm Bonnett is myself. So all of the information on there refers to what I have said to Malcolm Bonnett. He's receiving it third hand and has transposed it third hand. Malcolm Bonnett recorded the time that I spoke to him at 03.26. Much is made that this referred to a phone call that Nevill Bamber made, but nowhere on there does that say Nevill Bamber, and of course if I'd rung Malcolm Bonnett ten minutes after he'd had a phone call from Nevill Bamber, you tend to think the first words out of his mouth would be - "That's a coincidence, Mick... I've just had a phone call from Nevill Bamber" - Nothing of the sort.
There was an error over the time... I looked at a clock. There was no time stamp on a computer that there would be today. Some of the errors were just human nature. It's risible in my opinion to think that at any stage I was part of a conspiracy. I was a young police officer, but that's all it was... a simple error made by a young police constable at half past three in an uneventful, up until then, night shift.
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Brett pulling a sum out of the ether, OR Brett repeating what JB might have told him?...............as did Julie.
Brett Collins waited 36 years to repeat what Bamber told him - or al least he has done to the media and people like Kay
I wonder what he told people like his friends and brothers for example
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He said Dollars (NZ presumably). £25,000 = 12,740 NZ$...
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=25000+new+zealand+dollars+to+pounds (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=25000+new+zealand+dollars+to+pounds)
My mistake Brett Collins said 25-35,000 dollars
Brett Collins talks about the alleged donations to the church when referring to his stay in he UK prior to the murders
Around 8:16 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g
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Still can't spell... poor lad.
Is there a copy of Brett Collins witness statement on the forum?
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Is there a copy of Brett Collins witness statement on the forum?
Here, although not sure if there was a previous set... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12244.0 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12244.0)
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Brett Collins waited 36 years to repeat what Bamber told him - or al least he has done to the media and people like Kay
Why didn’t Brett Collins give all this information to the police back in 1985 ?
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Here, although not sure if there was a previous set... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12244.0 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12244.0)
So he had made 2 visits to Amsterdam
Where’s ‘Hawawi’ ?
And Brett Collins did tell the police Bamber had told him prior to him committing mass murder his mother was giving money to the church
He also tells police he left a message, when he was in Greece after seeing the news on the front page of a newspaper - presumably on an answering machine, to say he was ‘coming over’ (To England)
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So he had made 2 visits to Amsterdam
Where’s ‘Hawawi’ ?
And Brett Collins did tell the police Bamber had told him prior to him committing mass murder his mother was giving money to the church
Hawaii, obviously misspelt.
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Hawaii, obviously misspelt.
What’s with the story of going from Amsterdam to Groningen ?
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Here, although not sure if there was a previous set... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12244.0 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12244.0)
Is that it?
Are there other statements made by Brett Collins?
There’s no mention of Virginia or Anji Greaves ?
Roger Wilkes states in his book Blood Relations (Chapter eighteen)
’WHILE JEREMY BAMBER was giving an account of himself, the police were also talking to two other men about their role in the events leading up to the massacre at White House Farm. The first was Brett Collins, who had been arrested along with Jeremy and driven to Chelmsford. In his statement Collins said he and Jeremy had first met in Auckland in the autumn of 1981 when he had been introduced by a mutual friend. Jeremy had stayed at Collins’s house for about three months before moving on to Australia. The two had next met in June 1985 when Collins flew to London from Hawaii. Jeremy drove Collins up to Goldhanger where they had spent part of the summer. Brett Collins said he found Jeremy’s parents pleasant enough, but considered Nevill Bamber ‘a bit reserved and standoffish’ and had been told that June Bamber had been mentally disturbed. He never met Sheila, but had come to know Julie Mugford quite well. ‘They seemed to be close,’ he reported, but ‘more on Julie’s side than on Jeremy’s. He seemed to want more of a friendship but she was obviously thinking of marriage.’
Collins added that Jeremy had been two-timing Julie by going out with other women. Brett Collins explained that he had flown to the Greek island of Mykonos for a holiday on 20 July. Seeing the White House Farm murders reported in the English newspapers in early August, he had caught the first available flight back to London ‘specifically to be with Jeremy and to help out’. Over lunch on his first day back, Brett Collins found Jeremy ‘vacant and not seeming like the person I left a month ago’. Collins claimed to have avoided the subject of the murders, saying he didn’t want to push Jeremy on the subject. Julie filled him in on the details. But as the weeks passed, Collins had been emboldened to discuss with Jeremy the subject of his inheritance. According to Brett Collins, Jeremy expected to get his mother’s share of the Osea Road Caravan Site, which would give him a 50 per cent stake in it. Some of the land at White House Farm was owned – rather than tenanted – by the family, and this would be left to him. So would some shares in the house in Guildford formerly owned by Nevill Bamber’s mother. The police questioned Brett Collins about Bamber’s behaviour on the day of his parents’ funeral. Collins recalled that in the morning, Jeremy had been in reasonably good spirits, mainly because he was surrounded by his friends. By way of a joke, Collins himself suggested that Jeremy coat his face with white powder to make it look as if he had been grieving for weeks. This was purely a joke, Collins insisted. In the days leading up to the funeral, Jeremy had been ‘very upset, shocked and cold to us all’. His friends had advised him to look to the future and to put the tragedy behind him. Brett Collins himself was eliminated as a suspect after he gave police full details of his holiday itinerary.
When did Brett Collins tell Essex police about Bamber ‘two-timing Julie by going out with other women’ ?
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Why didn’t Brett Collins give all this information to the police back in 1985 ?
The police said to Brett Collins
Q: My info is that whilst in N.Z. he was stealing and using drugs
Bretts reply
A: Not whilst in my home
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Is that it?
Are there other statements made by Brett Collins?
Possibly, but not here... probably secreted in the Barnsley Burglar's dilapidated shed.
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Possibly, but not here... probably secreted in the Barnsley Burglar's dilapidated shed.
The executioner, child killer and sexual predators supporters ‘controlling’ what is and isn’t in the public domain 🙄
And their silence on Virginia and Anji (Angela) Greaves and the girl from the Chequers public house is deafening
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What’s with the story of going from Amsterdam to Groningen ?
Still can’t work out when Brett Collins was in Hawaii ?
Nor when he was in Amsterdam - twice
I’m aware of the one trip which Julie also went on but when was the other?
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Excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations
‘Downstairs in his cell, Jeremy Bamber was keeping an iron grip on his emotions. One observer found him ‘disconcertingly composed’. He was discussing what he would do when he was released the following day. He was bandying figures for which he planned to sell his story to the newspapers – somewhat unattractive behaviour, in the opinion of one of his legal team. A group of them sat with Jeremy, trying to buoy up his spirits but feeling increasingly uncomfortable about his obsession with a newspaper deal. The best offer he’d had, he said, was £40,000. Couldn’t they get him a better offer than that? After all, he was pointing out, if he was convicted, Julie had been promised £15,000 for her story. She was already ensconced at the Chelsea Holiday Inn in Sloane Street, closeted with two reporters from the News of the World. When Mr Justice Drake arrived at the court on what turned out to be the last day of the trial, his clerk handed him a note from the jury foreman:
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“It’s a story that’s socially important, with a powerfully compelling narrative, and the intention is to tell it in a way that is both sensitive and creatively ambitious. It’s obviously a big responsibility taking on a subject that’s touched the lives of so many people in such a tragic way. But I’m confident we can make it much more than a true crime documentary. This is a story not only about the criminal justice system but about family and adoption, class and religion, mental health and the undeserved stigma around it.”
https://static.skyassets.com/contentstack/assets/bltdc2476c7b6b194dd/blt3dbe220b742d87f6/600df86f533a1810075f5d6b/Look-ahead-V4-PR.pdf
Was the 4 part Mindhouse doc a flop?
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“It’s a story that’s socially important, with a powerfully compelling narrative, and the intention is to tell it in a way that is both sensitive and creatively ambitious. It’s obviously a big responsibility taking on a subject that’s touched the lives of so many people in such a tragic way. But I’m confident we can make it much more than a true crime documentary. This is a story not only about the criminal justice system but about family and adoption, class and religion, mental health and the undeserved stigma around it.”
https://static.skyassets.com/contentstack/assets/bltdc2476c7b6b194dd/blt3dbe220b742d87f6/600df86f533a1810075f5d6b/Look-ahead-V4-PR.pdf
I don’t recall the Mindhouse docuseries mentioning anything about imprisoned dangerous psychopathic predators
There was no mention of killer cults
A documentary that looks at both the cult and the case of Bamber i would watch but it's fair to point out that we don't know what the tone and content will be yet. It's perhaps a good sign the CT are worried but remember, the CT complained about the ITV drama before it was aired because they weren't allowed to write and direct but actually, IMO, it oversimplified the case against him making his conviction look much weaker than it really is, at the same time raising the profile of the case for a while and of those interested in finding out more, there were undoubtedly some that found the CT propaganda convincing, IMO because those open to conspiracy theories are easily suggestible.
Nothing about the various agendas at play
And nothing about ‘The Dizzying Cycle of Narcissism’ ⬇️
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/idealize-devalue-discard-the-dizzying-cycle-of-narcissism-0325154
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Was the 4 part Mindhouse doc a flop?
A flop?! No, a flipping success more like! Amusing to watch twitching Tatchell's distorted view of the call logs rubbished by Michael West, and Williams-Thomas fuming over Sheila Caffell's compliance and the sound moderator. No, it wasn't "Mad!!... Absolutely Mad!!!"... Sheila could have fainted or simply froze at the frightening sight of an intruder threatening her with a weapon in her docile, drugged-up state, and when Bamber realised the trigger was too far for her to reach with moderator fitted, he panicked, wiped it clean (or so he thought) and replaced it in the gun cupboard as if it had never been on the rifle at all. If he'd disposed of the moderator elsewhere, questions would have been asked about its whereabouts because Anthony Pargeter knew one was attached a week or two before.
All in all, another few nails hammered in the case coffin by Mike Ainsley, Chris Bews, Barbara Wilson, Tora Tomkinson, Anthony Arlidge QC, Carol Ann Lee, James Richards, Andrew Taylor, David Boutflour, and dare I mention... Brett Collins. Just a pity Stan Jones and Bob Miller weren't alive to contribute.
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A flop?! No, a flipping success more like! Amusing to watch twitching Tatchell's distorted view of the call logs rubbished by Michael West, and Williams-Thomas fuming over Sheila Caffell's compliance and the sound moderator. No, it wasn't "Mad!!... Absolutely Mad!!!"... Sheila could have fainted or simply froze at the frightening sight of an intruder threatening her with a weapon in her docile, drugged-up state, and when Bamber realised the trigger was too far for her to reach with moderator fitted, he panicked, wiped it clean (or so he thought) and replaced it in the gun cupboard as if it had never been on the rifle at all. If he'd disposed of the moderator elsewhere, questions would have been asked about its whereabouts because Anthony Pargeter knew one was attached a week or two before.
All in all, another few nails hammered in the case coffin by Mike Ainsley, Chris Bews, Barbara Wilson, Tora Tomkinson, Anthony Arlidge QC, Carol Ann Lee, James Richards, Andrew Taylor, David Boutflour, and dare I mention... Brett Collins. Just a pity Stan Jones and Bob Miller weren't alive to contribute.
I didn’t think it was
There was no mention of Anji (Angela) and Virginia Greaves for a start - both of whom were ‘friends’ of Bamber’s and were seemingly sleeping with him around the time of the murders. Although it’s not clear from any of the material available online when the sisters and Bamber had really started up their ‘affairs’ ?
Sky’s blurb for episode 3 reads in part,
‘The tabloids hunt his girlfriend, Julie’
https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-88834c5f-a6ab-4ef3-9922-98f9cb4708b3/episodes/season-1/episode-3
What about Bamber’s other girlfriends ?
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A flop?! No, a flipping success more like! Amusing to watch twitching Tatchell's distorted view of the call logs rubbished by Michael West, and Williams-Thomas fuming over Sheila Caffell's compliance and the sound moderator. No, it wasn't "Mad!!... Absolutely Mad!!!"... Sheila could have fainted or simply froze at the frightening sight of an intruder threatening her with a weapon in her docile, drugged-up state, and when Bamber realised the trigger was too far for her to reach with moderator fitted, he panicked, wiped it clean (or so he thought) and replaced it in the gun cupboard as if it had never been on the rifle at all. If he'd disposed of the moderator elsewhere, questions would have been asked about its whereabouts because Anthony Pargeter knew one was attached a week or two before.
All in all, another few nails hammered in the case coffin by Mike Ainsley, Chris Bews, Barbara Wilson, Tora Tomkinson, Anthony Arlidge QC, Carol Ann Lee, James Richards, Andrew Taylor, David Boutflour, and dare I mention... Brett Collins. Just a pity Stan Jones and Bob Miller weren't alive to contribute.
If it were such a ‘success’ why aren’t the media reporting on this?
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Patrick O’Connor was also involved in the ‘Birmingham 6’ and ‘Guildford 4’ cases and was Michael Mansfield’s deputy in relation to the appeals of Reginald Dudley and Robert Maynard - both of whom were convicted of murdering William Moseley and Michael Cornwall ⬇️
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2131783.stm
‘Mending our ‘safety net.’ was written by Patrick O’Connor ⬇️
https://doughty-street-chambers.newsweaver.com/Appeals/5nlr330255r
John Bray was said to be a ‘principle campaigner’ alongside others - see here http://www.mojuk.org.uk/justice/Nicktucker.PDF and was apparently ‘instrumental in securing the release of Dudley and Maynard’
John Bray on convicted/exonerated killer Sion Jenkins https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1197341.call-to-reopen-billie-jo-inquiry/
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If it were such a ‘success’ why aren’t the media reporting on this?
They're not reporting it was a failure either... or even reporting it at all. The last and only review afaiaw was two weeks ago, and simply said that viewers were hooked, when I think the reality is that few people are interested and are suffering from Bamber drama/documentary overload.
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They're not reporting it was a failure either... or even reporting it at all. The last and only review afaiaw was two weeks ago, and simply said that viewers were hooked, when I think the reality is that few people are interested and are suffering from Bamber drama/documentary overload.
The ‘hooked’ reference was in relation to one viewer ⬇️
On 27th September 2021 an article for Tyla headed ‘Viewers Are ‘Hooked’ Watching Louis Theroux’s True Crime Series The Bambers: Murder At The Farm’ by a Gregory Robinson stated,
‘Viewers are already engrossed in the series, which is executive produced by Theroux. One viewer reacted to the series on Twitter, writing: "Anyone watching the Bambers, Murder At The Farm? Bloody hooked."
While a second viewer tweeted: "Watching Bamber: Murder at the Farm on @SkyCrimeUK. Fascinating."
And a third Twitter user called the case "so tragic".
https://www.tyla.com/tv-and-film/louis-theroux-the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm-sky-crime-documentary-20210927
The interest in Bamber does appear to be minimal - apart from his handful or so of long term supporters.
There was another article written around the same time by someone called Ellen Smith here https://www.fm104.ie/news/buzz/viewers-are-binging-louis-therouxs-new-crime-documentary/
They’ve included a couple of tweets - including the tweet where the ‘hooked’ reference was made
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The last and only review afaiaw was two weeks ago, and simply said that viewers were hooked,
The ‘hooked’ reference was in relation to one viewer ⬇️
This from Helen Archer (12th October 2021)
‘Some true crimes seem destined to endure, their victims never fully laid to rest. The reasons for their perpetuity are manifold – perhaps they shine a light on institutional failings, or flawed investigations which led to miscarriages of justice. Perhaps they have never been solved. Perhaps it is the sheer brutality of the crimes, and the number of lives they devastated. In the case of the murder of the Bamber family at White House Farm in 1985, the explanation for the ongoing fascination is simple – Jeremy Bamber continues to loudly protest his innocence from behind bars, where he’s serving five life sentences for the killings.
It was, of course, a shocking crime – and one seemingly custom-made for salacious tabloid headlines. Steadfast father Nevill, God-fearing mother June, their troubled and vulnerable daughter Sheila, and her 6-year-old twin sons, Nicholas and Daniel, were murdered, executioner-style, in their remote Essex farmhouse. Initially, Sheila was blamed, with police quickly adopting the theory that she had killed her family before turning the gun on herself. The crime scene was fatally compromised and crucial evidence was destroyed. But the actions of Jeremy – the Bamber’s remaining son, who lived in the nearby village of Goldhanger – soon began to arouse suspicion, and he was ultimately tried and convicted for the murders.
Much of the case, at this stage, is well known. It has inspired numerous documentaries, and a recent ITV dramatisation White House Farm, starring Freddie Fox, Mark Addy and Stephen Graham. Now, Louis Theroux’s new production company Mindhouse Productions tackles it, with a detailed and engrossing 4-part series, directed by Lottie Gammon. Regardless of how well you think you know the case, this is eminently watchable.
While in many ways, it’s a very British documentary, it also adheres to the conventions of the more modern, Netflix-style true crime series. The pacing is exemplary – it’s an ideal binge-watch, each episode leaving you ready for more. The momentum builds from the outset, as it examines the night of the murder, interviewing some of the initial response team – through to the elegiac ending, in which friends of Sheila speak to her character, and others, intimately involved with the case, express their surety of Jeremy’s conviction.
On Jeremy’s side, there is the random inclusion of wannabe web sleuth and Bamber supporter, who runs a Facebook page that charts alleged inconsistencies in the evidence. His voice is heard in interviews recorded by a reporter investigating the case. Jeremy’s friend at the time, New Zealander Brett Collins, who Jeremy accompanied to the French Riviera in the wake of his family’s funeral, is now more circumspect about his proclaimed innocence. Colin Caffell – the father of Sheila’s twins, Nicholas and Daniel – refused to take part, doubtless because he wants to finally try to put this behind him. Julie Mugford – the girlfriend of Jeremy who testified against him and who was integral in his conviction – is, as usual, conspicuous by her absence. A former editor of the News of the World, who paid her £25,000 for her story and accompanying glamour shots, now shakes his head ruefully at the wisdom of the full-page spread.
But if the series belongs to anyone, it’s Bamber’s cousin David Boutflour, who is featured here and is also seen in archive footage, similarly bemused, tearful and horrified, despite the 35-year gap between interviews. It is, he says in the final episode, the last time he is going to speak about this, wanting to finally lay his family to rest – but also wanting to tell their story for posterity, before he dies.
And it does seem as though this should be the last word on the subject, both for him and for us. Gammon has done such a thorough and engrossing job that any further public interrogations seem in increasingly bad taste. As one of Sheila’s friends points out, it’s not just that people are questioning the strength of Jeremy’s conviction; it’s that, by doing so, they are also insisting on Sheila’s guilt. As a belated remedy to the misogynistic mauling Sheila was subjected to in the immediate aftermath of her death, The Bambers: Murder at the Farm is effective. While Theroux has lamented that this documentary won’t please everyone, it’s as balanced as it can be, while also restoring some of the dignity and humanity to a family so brutally and pointlessly slain in their own home.
https://vodzilla.co/reviews/true-crime-tuesdays-the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm/
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This from Helen Archer (12th October 2021)
‘Some true crimes seem destined to endure, their victims never fully laid to rest. The reasons for their perpetuity are manifold – perhaps they shine a light on institutional failings, or flawed investigations which led to miscarriages of justice. Perhaps they have never been solved. Perhaps it is the sheer brutality of the crimes, and the number of lives they devastated. In the case of the murder of the Bamber family at White House Farm in 1985, the explanation for the ongoing fascination is simple – Jeremy Bamber continues to loudly protest his innocence from behind bars, where he’s serving five life sentences for the killings.
It was, of course, a shocking crime – and one seemingly custom-made for salacious tabloid headlines. Steadfast father Nevill, God-fearing mother June, their troubled and vulnerable daughter Sheila, and her 6-year-old twin sons, Nicholas and Daniel, were murdered, executioner-style, in their remote Essex farmhouse. Initially, Sheila was blamed, with police quickly adopting the theory that she had killed her family before turning the gun on herself. The crime scene was fatally compromised and crucial evidence was destroyed. But the actions of Jeremy – the Bamber’s remaining son, who lived in the nearby village of Goldhanger – soon began to arouse suspicion, and he was ultimately tried and convicted for the murders.
Much of the case, at this stage, is well known. It has inspired numerous documentaries, and a recent ITV dramatisation White House Farm, starring Freddie Fox, Mark Addy and Stephen Graham. Now, Louis Theroux’s new production company Mindhouse Productions tackles it, with a detailed and engrossing 4-part series, directed by Lottie Gammon. Regardless of how well you think you know the case, this is eminently watchable.
While in many ways, it’s a very British documentary, it also adheres to the conventions of the more modern, Netflix-style true crime series. The pacing is exemplary – it’s an ideal binge-watch, each episode leaving you ready for more. The momentum builds from the outset, as it examines the night of the murder, interviewing some of the initial response team – through to the elegiac ending, in which friends of Sheila speak to her character, and others, intimately involved with the case, express their surety of Jeremy’s conviction.
On Jeremy’s side, there is the random inclusion of wannabe web sleuth and Bamber supporter, who runs a Facebook page that charts alleged inconsistencies in the evidence. His voice is heard in interviews recorded by a reporter investigating the case. Jeremy’s friend at the time, New Zealander Brett Collins, who Jeremy accompanied to the French Riviera in the wake of his family’s funeral, is now more circumspect about his proclaimed innocence. Colin Caffell – the father of Sheila’s twins, Nicholas and Daniel – refused to take part, doubtless because he wants to finally try to put this behind him. Julie Mugford – the girlfriend of Jeremy who testified against him and who was integral in his conviction – is, as usual, conspicuous by her absence. A former editor of the News of the World, who paid her £25,000 for her story and accompanying glamour shots, now shakes his head ruefully at the wisdom of the full-page spread.
But if the series belongs to anyone, it’s Bamber’s cousin David Boutflour, who is featured here and is also seen in archive footage, similarly bemused, tearful and horrified, despite the 35-year gap between interviews. It is, he says in the final episode, the last time he is going to speak about this, wanting to finally lay his family to rest – but also wanting to tell their story for posterity, before he dies.
And it does seem as though this should be the last word on the subject, both for him and for us. Gammon has done such a thorough and engrossing job that any further public interrogations seem in increasingly bad taste. As one of Sheila’s friends points out, it’s not just that people are questioning the strength of Jeremy’s conviction; it’s that, by doing so, they are also insisting on Sheila’s guilt. As a belated remedy to the misogynistic mauling Sheila was subjected to in the immediate aftermath of her death, The Bambers: Murder at the Farm is effective. While Theroux has lamented that this documentary won’t please everyone, it’s as balanced as it can be, while also restoring some of the dignity and humanity to a family so brutally and pointlessly slain in their own home.
https://vodzilla.co/reviews/true-crime-tuesdays-the-bambers-murder-at-the-farm/
And the misogyny of Bamber’s innocence fraud campaign is ever present
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Kimberly Godbolt from ‘Talented people’ has interviewed Flo Barrow, Lottie Gammon and Suzy Burnett
The interview is available via ‘Talented people’s’ Facebook page
It’s only had ‘16 views’
It’s mainly about them and ‘Talented people’ advertising
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Was he cleaning his Porsche when the film crew turned up or did he suggest they film him cleaning it so he could gloat to Bamber?
Obviously the latter, a set-up.
Mindhouse TV apparently tried to coax Yvonne Hartley to sit on a bed to receive a telephone call from Bamber
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7qnCKGr980
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Mindhouse TV apparently tried to coax Yvonne Hartley to sit on a bed to receive a telephone call from Bamber
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7qnCKGr980
According to Yvonne Hartley she ‘did hundreds of hours’ with Mindhouse TV
They went to her house ‘twice’
Apparently Nancy Strang (Louis Theroux’s wife) approached the campaign team in 2019 in the first instance to make an ‘unbiased - showing both sides programme’
Yvonne Hartley claims of Nancy Strang,
‘From what she expressed in that they were going to show all the facts of the case as well as all the new evidence - it was asserted to us time and again .. ‘
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Mindhouse TV apparently tried to coax Yvonne Hartley to sit on a bed to receive a telephone call from Bamber
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7qnCKGr980
According to Yvonne Hartley she ‘did hundreds of hours’ with Mindhouse TV
They went to her house ‘twice’
Yvonne Hartley states she/the campagn team (?) spoke to Mindhouse productions via Zoom, on the telephone - she also went filming with them and they (The CT) were ‘fully engaging with’ Mindhouse productions
-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7qnCKGr980
Yvonne Hartley stated,
‘We have a lot of media contacts and a lot of industry contacts - we were contacted by one of our industry contacts that the director had been going around the office saying “jeremy’s guilty jeremys guilty” - they had no intention of making a balanced programme..’
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Mindhouse TV apparently tried to coax Yvonne Hartley to sit on a bed to receive a telephone call from Bamber
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7qnCKGr980
Yvonne Hartley also accuses Lottie Gammon and Flo Barrow of having ‘just sat there giggling to be honest’ during their zoom meetings
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Mindhouse TV apparently tried to coax Yvonne Hartley to sit on a bed to receive a telephone call from Bamber
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7qnCKGr980
Yvonne Hartley stated,
‘They want me a professional who’s worked on this campaign for 11 years now to sit on a bed and wait for a telephone call from him - it was not happening at all’
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Yvonne Hartley stated,
‘They want me a professional who’s worked on this campaign for 11 years now to sit on a bed and wait for a telephone call from him - it was not happening at all’
Yvonne Hartley then states,
‘They didn’t ask Mark Newby anyway to sit on a bed so..’
The CT apparently received an email from Aaron Fellows
Yvonne goes on,
‘..that was another concern we raised with them and we did actually have an email from Aaron Fellows who is partner in mindhouse productions who actually said we can assure you that there was absolutely no intention to present you as being unprofessional - really that’s exactly the intention they had - that’s exactly the intention - they wanted a piece of film of a women that was sort of doing a Julie Mugford wasn’t it on the bed - waiting for Jeremy to ring - how ridiculous so that was another factor why we…’
Emma Morris also interjects whilst Yvonne’s talking
What’s interesting about this is the fact Julie Mugford wasn’t ever pictured on a bed waiting for ‘Jeremy to ring’ because he’d just been convicted of 4 murders when she was interviewed by the NOTW
The only person I recall photographed sitting on a bed - possibly waiting for ‘Jeremy to ring’ - was Anji (Angela) Greaves ⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11197.msg572685#msg572685
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Yvonne Hartley then states,
‘They didn’t ask Mark Newby anyway to sit on a bed so..’
The CT apparently received an email from Aaron Fellows
Yvonne goes on,
‘..that was another concern we raised with them and we did actually have an email from Aaron Fellows who is partner in mindhouse productions who actually said we can assure you that there was absolutely no intention to present you as being unprofessional - really that’s exactly the intention they had - that’s exactly the intention - they wanted a piece of film of a women that was sort of doing a Julie Mitford wasn’t it on the bed - waiting for Jeremy to ring - how ridiculous so what was another factor why we ’
Emma Morris also interjects whilst Yvonne’s talking
What’s interesting about this is the fact Julie Mugford wasn’t ever pictured on a bed waiting for ‘Jeremy to ring’ because he’d just been convicted of 4 murders when she was interviewed by the NOTW
The only person I recall photographed sitting on a bed - possibly waiting for ‘Jeremy to ring’ - was Anji (Angela) Greaves ⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11197.msg572685#msg572685
Emma Morris stated,
‘..very concerning in terms of the way that they can manipulate and make you look however they want you to look and that for me certainly would have been a red flag I would have run a mile so I think absolutely the campaign team did the right thing by backing out’
Yvonne Hartley goes on,
‘I mean it just highlights the manipulation and abuse of women doesn’t it that people think that it is acceptable to treat a women that way and to manipulate what’s gonna be shown on camera to the detriment of that women whoever it may be I mean it’s just completely wrong’
Emma Morris then states,
‘And more disappointing was that it was women err that asked you to do it’
Yvonne Hartley states,
‘yes it was - we asked them about it on a live zoom erm they said it was they tried to defer from it and they in the end they said it was the cameraman’s idea which is even worse I mean they were trying to you know explain it but made it even worse by - cameraman’s in charge - the cameraman must have been sexist if they wanted to do this so it’s just not right is it
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Yvonne goes on,
‘..that was another concern we raised with them and we did actually have an email from Aaron Fellows who is partner in mindhouse productions who actually said we can assure you that there was absolutely no intention to present you as being unprofessional - really that’s exactly the intention they had - that’s exactly the intention - they wanted a piece of film of a women that was sort of doing a Julie Mugford wasn’t it on the bed - waiting for Jeremy to ring - how ridiculous so what was another factor why we ’
Yvonne Hartley’s comments on Julie Mugford appear to be her unconscious biases towards Julie
Yvonne refers to ‘a piece of film’ of a women on a bed waiting for Bamber to phone yet this can only be a figment of her imagination where Julie Mugford is concerned - a delusion - because it never happened!
What’s interesting about this is the fact Julie Mugford wasn’t ever pictured on a bed waiting for ‘Jeremy to ring’ because he’d just been convicted of 4 murders when she was interviewed by the NOTW
The only person I recall photographed sitting on a bed - possibly waiting for ‘Jeremy to ring’ - was Anji (Angela) Greaves
⬇️
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11197.msg572685#msg572685
So it can hardly be referred to as ‘doing a Julie Mugford’ *&^^&
Yvonne Hartley gives a sort of laugh as she states ‘doing a Julie Mugford’ yet in the next breath goes on to refer to ‘manipulation and abuse of women’
Yvonne Hartley goes on,
‘I mean it just highlights the manipulation and abuse of women doesn’t it that people think that it is acceptable to treat a women that way and to manipulate what’s gonna be shown on camera to the detriment of that women whoever it may be I mean it’s just completely wrong’
Was Yvonne referring to the ‘manipulation and abuse’ of Julie Mugford or is Julie excluded from her ‘whoever it may be’ comment?
I’d be interested to hear more from Yvonne Hartley on this
-
Emma Morris stated,
‘..very concerning in terms of the way that they can manipulate and make you look however they want you to look and that for me certainly would have been a red flag I would have run a mile so I think absolutely the campaign team did the right thing by backing out’
I’d also be interested to hear from Emma Morris on the date rape of the girl from the Chequers PH
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I wouldn't... there's enough smelly tripe and overcooked baloney from Nellie Pledge's Pickle Factory already.
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I wouldn't... there's enough smelly tripe and overcooked baloney from Nellie Pledge's Pickle Factory already.
Neither would you get a straight answer anyway... it's impossible to convert the clueless.
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Yvonne Hartley stated,
‘They want me a professional who’s worked on this campaign for 11 years now to sit on a bed and wait for a telephone call from him - it was not happening at all’
The thing is though, if that's true, then it's a cheap trick on the part of the production team.
If true then it would make Yvonne Hartley look as if she is pining for her handsome prince. Which is obviously manipulation on the part of the production team. And a massive own goal if true.
Yvonne Hartley is her own worst enemy, she continually lies about the facts about Jeremy Bamber, and misses important details that don't suit her fake narrative. She must realise that he's guilty, otherwise she wouldn't have to lie about the facts, misinterpret them, and ignore the rulings of the CoA in 2002 and the CCRC in 2012.
So with someone like that, you don't have to have them sitting on the bed. Stick them in an office, wind her up and let her go.
Job done.
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Yvonne Hartley stated,
‘They want me a professional who’s worked on this campaign for 11 years now to sit on a bed and wait for a telephone call from him - it was not happening at all’
The thing is though, if that's true, then it's a cheap trick on the part of the production team.
If true then it would make Yvonne Hartley look as if she is pining for her handsome prince. Which is obviously manipulation on the part of the production team. And a massive own goal if true.
I concur
And based on Brett Collins posing whilst cleaning his Porsche and combing his hair whilst looking in one of the car windows I suspect the production team did attempt to exploit Yvonne in this way
But Yvonne Hartley gave out a sort of laugh when she was speaking to Emma Morris during their podcast and referred to this as ‘doing a Julie Mugford’
Julie Mugford never sat on a bed posing for any cameras waiting for Bamber fullstop
Yvonne Hartley sounded self righteous but by choosing to have a pop at Julie then immediately go on to talk about ‘manipulation and abuse of women’ she comes across as a hypocrite
Plus Yvonne - and all other supporters don’t appear to want to address the evidence from the girl from the Chequers PH in Colchester who appears to have been date raped by Bamber just prior to him committing mass murder
-
Yvonne Hartley is planning to do another podcast apparently next week on Sheila allegedly hurting her twin boys *&^^& in an attempt to contradict Sheila’s friend Tora who appeared during the Mindhouse docuseries
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7qnCKGr980
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
Red squareNEWRed squareNEWRed squareNEWRed squareNEWRed squareNEWRed squareNEWRed squareNEWRed squareNEWRed square
The Bambers: Murder At The Farm - Or Not! Thinking face
Find out about the reasons behind the Jeremy Bamber campaign pulling out of the documentary... we think you'll find it very interesting... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yvonne-and-emma-discuss-the-recent-mindhouse/id1555731881?i=1000539130576…
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1:20 pm · 21 Oct 2021·Twitter Web App
I found the campaign teams reasons for choosing to pull out of the Mindhouse TV documentary weak
Many of the crime scene photographs have been in the public domain for many years and I suspect Yvonne Hartley viewed most of these photographs via the blue forum
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I found the campaign teams reasons for choosing to pull out of the Mindhouse TV documentary weak
Yvonne Hartley is her own worst enemy, she continually lies about the facts about Jeremy Bamber, and misses important details that don't suit her fake narrative. She must realise that he's guilty,
Maybe subconsciously she does realise he’s guilty ?
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I found the campaign teams reasons for choosing to pull out of the Mindhouse TV documentary weak
Many of the crime scene photographs have been in the public domain for many years and I suspect Yvonne Hartley viewed most of these photographs via the blue forum
Of course she has, and now wants to prevent others from seeing Bamber's appalling murderous handiwork.
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Of course she has, and now wants to prevent others from seeing Bamber's appalling murderous handiwork.
You might be onto something Myster
I’d be interested to see what Mindhouse productions did film in relation to Yvonne Hartley
Does she really not recognise she’s being manipulated and abused by Bamber ?
And what about #daddygate and Shaun Attwood https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/daddygate
‘Manipulation and abuse of women’ ➡️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExMyhxyV-fY
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Does she really not recognise she’s being manipulated and abused by Bamber ?
If Bamber and his solicitor Mark Newby (https://about.me/MarkNewby) stand by all the claims being made by the campaign team and Yvonne Hartley - why aren’t they making them ?
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If Bamber and his solicitor Mark Newby (https://about.me/MarkNewby) stand by all the claims being made by the campaign team and Yvonne Hartley - why aren’t they making them ?
What does Yvonne Hartley make of Mark Newby’s updated bio blurb
‘I regularly contribute to the media and speak publicly on Miscarriage and Justice Matters’ *&^^&
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Yvonne Hartley also accuses Lottie Gammon and Flo Barrow of having ‘just sat there giggling to be honest’ during their zoom meetings
Yvonne Hartley can be heard laughing when she stated ‘doing a Julie Mugford’
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The thing is though, if that's true, then it's a cheap trick on the part of the production team.
If true then it would make Yvonne Hartley look as if she is pining for her handsome prince. Which is obviously manipulation on the part of the production team. And a massive own goal if true.
Yvonne Hartley is her own worst enemy,
Do you think Yvonne Hartley was overreacting to the request to sit on a bed to take a phone call from Bamber ?
-
Over-36-years-locked-up-&-Innocent
@over35_innocent
Replying to
@SaraLovesOasis
Please listen to this Podcast from the JB campaign team,
Emma and Yvonne discuss the inaccuracies in the recent programme by Mindhouse produced by Florence Barrow and Directed by Lottie Gammon, Executive produced by Louis Theroux.
youtube.com
Yvonne and Emma discuss the recent Mindhouse programme 'The Bambers:...
Emma and Yvonne discuss the inaccuracies in the recent programme by Mindhouse produced by Florence Barrow and Directed by Lottie Gammon, Executive produced b...
8:04 PM · Oct 21, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/over35_innocent/status/1451263207142739969
Over-36-years-locked-up-&-Innocent
@over35_innocent
The net is slowly closing in!!
Want to find out why!!
Listen to all the Podcasts & discover the Truth as to what really happened at Whitehouse Farm.
youtube.com
Officialbambervideo
The official YouTube channel for the campaign of Jeremy Bamber; wrongly convicted of murder in 1986 and wrongly imprisoned ever since. We urge anyone that shares concern over Jeremy's conviction to...
12:05 AM · Oct 13, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/over35_innocent/status/1448062242843463682
Humble Pie
@HumblePie_cL85
Oct 13
Replying to
@over35_innocent
Revenge is a dish best served cold. The dish is very cold.
Over-36-years-locked-up-&-Innocent
@over35_innocent
Oct 13
So true!! Heads are well & truly going to roll very very soon.
Over-36-years-locked-up-&-Innocent
@over35_innocent
Just Spreading The Word On Why The Net Is Really Closing In!!
Are you Intrigued ?
Click the link below & discover the real Truth as to what really happened in Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex, during the night of 6–7 August 1985.
youtube.com
Officialbambervideo
The official YouTube channel for the campaign of Jeremy Bamber; wrongly convicted of murder in 1986 and wrongly imprisoned ever since. We urge anyone that shares concern over Jeremy's conviction to...
9:21 AM · Oct 18, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/over35_innocent/status/1450014188445872134
Over-36-years-locked-up-&-Innocent
@over35_innocent
OMG, The evidence is really starting to stack up now!! Karma is a wonderful thing, and To all those that testified against me will soon have nowhere else to hide, The real truth is finally going to be revealed to the world very very soon.
Quote Tweet
Over-36-years-locked-up-&-Innocent
@over35_innocent
· Oct 13
The net is slowly closing in!!
Want to find out why!!
Listen to all the Podcasts & discover the Truth as to what really happened at Whitehouse Farm.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCTlF2SeD5_Ylq0Uw5YSJUfw…
2:06 PM · Oct 17, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/over35_innocent/status/1449723468795326465
Over-36-years-locked-up-&-Innocent
@over35_innocent
Whatever we’re the Original intentions of Louis Theroux The Bambers Murder at The Farm? ?
It’s now just over 2 weeks from airing on Sky Crime, & word is now out that hundreds of New supporters are now questioning the non existent evidence against my unsafe conviction.
2:15 PM · Oct 13, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/over35_innocent/status/1448276301597585414
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Do you think Yvonne Hartley was overreacting to the request to sit on a bed to take a phone call from Bamber ?
At the beginning of the podcast the narrator states,
‘The podcast goes on to discuss Mindhouse’s treatment of Yvonne - which raises serious issues about the treatment of women by the production’
What about ‘the treatment of women’ by Yvonne Hartley and the campaign team’?
I don’t consider Lottie Gammon or Flo Barrow to be female misogynists
I do however see a lot of unjustified hate and contempt for women coming from Bamber and many of his supporters
Are Yvonne Hartley and Emma Morris really not aware of the contempt and hatred they display towards Julie Mugford for example ?
or Sheila Caffell - who they want their followers to believe committed mass murder?
And the misogyny of Bamber’s innocence fraud campaign is ever present
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I’d be interested to hear more from Yvonne Hartley on this
While I'm not one to cause trouble, and I would urge all to be respectful, Shaun Attwood has left comments open on his video and you can @ Yvonne there :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M&t=1s
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While I'm not one to cause trouble, and I would urge all to be respectful, Shaun Attwood has left comments open on his video and you can @ Yvonne there :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M&t=1s
@ Yvonne
Your unjustified contempt and hatred towards certain women is quite apparent
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Yvonne Hartley can be heard laughing when she stated ‘doing a Julie Mugford’
And Emma Morris mentions something about a ‘negligee’ 🙄
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While I'm not one to cause trouble, and I would urge all to be respectful, Shaun Attwood has left comments open on his video and you can @ Yvonne there :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M&t=1s
If Yvonne Hartley (And co) were being honest about her alleged views on the ‘treatment of women’ why would she choose to appear alongside someone like Shaun Attwood? ⬇️
And what about #daddygate and Shaun Attwood https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/daddygate
‘Manipulation and abuse of women’ ➡️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExMyhxyV-fY
Yet shun the Mindhouse production because she was supposedly asked to sit on a bed for filming ?
I suspect the cameraman, and crew, would have been okay for Yvonne to sit on a chair instead of a bed
Emma Morris stated,
‘For me they just seemed to allow people to talk and talk say whatever they wanted but but they were completely unchallenged which given that Mindhouse had free reign of all the evidence that was quite disappointing and I think consequently they didn’t make a balanced programme. …’
This appears to be exactly what Yvonne Hartley and the CT wanted - ‘to talk and talk say whatever they wanted’ and go ‘completely unchallenged’
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Yvonne Hartley is her own worst enemy, she continually lies
At the beginning of the podcast at around 4:39 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7qnCKGr980) Yvonne Hartley states,
‘So Emma did you actually watch the programme’
I don’t suppose Emma Morris would be able to contribute to Yvonne’s podcast if she hadn’t watched it
Why didn’t Yvonne simply ask Emma what she thought of the programme?
Jeremy Bamber
@JBamberFacebook
#WhiteHouseFarm
Emma Morris and Yvonne Hartley from the campaign, explain the reasons why the team withdrew from the recent Mindhouse series, and discuss the inaccuracies in the series, setting out the actual case facts, Mindhouse didn't want to show.
youtube.com
Yvonne and Emma discuss the recent Mindhouse programme 'The Bambers:...
Emma and Yvonne discuss the inaccuracies in the recent programme by Mindhouse produced by Florence Barrow and Directed by Lottie Gammon, Executive produced b...
8:34 am · 20 Oct 2021·Twitter for Android
https://mobile.twitter.com/JBamberFacebook/status/1450727018971152387
I don’t trust their reasoning given for pulling out of the Mindhouse production
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If Yvonne Hartley (And co) were being honest about her alleged views on the ‘treatment of women’ why would she choose to appear alongside someone like Shaun Attwood? ⬇️
Yet shun the Mindhouse production because she was supposedly asked to sit on a bed for filming ?
I suspect the cameraman, and crew, would have been okay for Yvonne to sit on a chair instead of a bed
Emma Morris stated,
‘For me they just seemed to allow people to talk and talk say whatever they wanted but but they were completely unchallenged which given that Mindhouse had free range of all the evidence that was quite disappointing and I think consequently they didn’t make a balanced programme. …’
This appears to be exactly what Yvonne Hartley and the CT wanted - ‘to talk and talk say whatever they wanted’ and go ‘completely unchallenged’
Spot on and it's exactly what they do in their carefully controlled echo chamber.
Somewhere in the comments, Yvonne claims that no one will debate with them and states they only block because of all the personal abuse they receive. She makes no mention of the abuse Bamber supporters dish out.
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Spot on and it's exactly what they do in their carefully controlled echo chamber.
Somewhere in the comments, Yvonne claims that no one will debate with them and states they only block because of all the personal abuse they receive. She makes no mention of the abuse Bamber supporters dish out.
Similar to Michelle Diskin Bates who accuses people of all sorts for simply asking questions 🙄
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Spot on and it's exactly what they do in their carefully controlled echo chamber.
Somewhere in the comments, Yvonne claims that no one will debate with them and states they only block because of all the personal abuse they receive. She makes no mention of the abuse Bamber supporters dish out.
Yvonne Hartley abused Julie Mugford with her deluded comments about ‘doing a Julie Mugford’
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Spot on and it's exactly what they do in their carefully controlled echo chamber.
Somewhere in the comments, Yvonne claims that no one will debate with them and states they only block because of all the personal abuse they receive. She makes no mention of the abuse Bamber supporters dish out.
At the beginning of the podcast the narrator states,
‘The podcast goes on to discuss Mindhouse’s treatment of Yvonne - which raises serious issues about the treatment of women by the production’
What about Yvonne Hartley and the CT’s ‘serious issues’ regarding how they treat women?
One example ⬇️
Yvonne goes on,
‘..that was another concern we raised with them and we did actually have an email from Aaron Fellows who is partner in mindhouse productions who actually said we can assure you that there was absolutely no intention to present you as being unprofessional - really that’s exactly the intention they had - that’s exactly the intention - they wanted a piece of film of a women that was sort of doing a Julie Mugford wasn’t it on the bed - waiting for Jeremy to ring - how ridiculous so that was another factor why we…’
The above suggests Yvonne Hartley is aware of how Julie Mugford was treated in relation to the NOTW interview/spread
And also of Anji (Angela) Greaves
who is photographed here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11197.msg572685#msg572685 sat on a bed in her Sun interview/spread on Bamber
Was Julie Mugford ever photographed sat on a bed?
Does Yvonne Hartley harbour contempt towards Anji Greaves for having been photographed sat on a bed?
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Jeremy Bamber
@JBamberFacebook
#WhiteHouseFarm
Emma Morris and Yvonne Hartley from the campaign, explain the reasons why the team withdrew from the recent Mindhouse series, and discuss the inaccuracies in the series, setting out the actual case facts, Mindhouse didn't want to show.
youtube.com
Yvonne and Emma discuss the recent Mindhouse programme 'The Bambers:...
Emma and Yvonne discuss the inaccuracies in the recent programme by Mindhouse produced by Florence Barrow and Directed by Lottie Gammon, Executive produced b...
8:34 am · 20 Oct 2021·Twitter for Android
https://mobile.twitter.com/JBamberFacebook/status/1450727018971152387
Emma Morris claims via her Twitter bio she ‘hates any kind of prejudice’
What about her own?
Emma also claims she wants a ‘truthful and fair society for all’ - except for women who wear ‘negligee’s’ ?
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Dee Sadler
@deedeesadler
Replying to
@SaraLovesOasis
and
@Bambertweets
The amount of misogynistic abuse the female members of this campaign team receives, beggars belief. Power to them. Red heart
10:39 PM · Oct 21, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/deedeesadler/status/1451302114639110146
Isn’t it Dee Sadler who narrates the misogynistic podcast on Julie Mugford?
The same podcast where someone ridicules Julie for having a collection of cuddly toys in her Uni dorm seemingly ignoring Anji Greaves http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11197.msg572685#msg572685 🙄
And what about the misogyny behind the false premise of Sheila having been responsible for her brothers crimes?
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Yvonne Hartley is her own worst enemy, she continually lies
Yvonne Hartley states at the beginning of the podcast,
‘We don’t assert anything in the public domain that’s not come from the case material we don’t speculate we don’t use guesswork we don’t give our own opinions
This is exactly what they do !
Yvonne goes on,
‘Everything that we assert on the podcast and in discussions is from the case material so people can be assured that it is the facts that were giving to police..’
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Do you think Yvonne Hartley was overreacting to the request to sit on a bed to take a phone call from Bamber ?
Yes, she is over reacting because all she had to do was say that she'd rather sit at a desk in an office. She could easily have politely said to the production team that sitting on the bed waiting for Bamber to phone trivialised what she's trying to do.
I think what she was doing was using the request as an excuse to attack the production team and denounce it as unfairly biased against Bamber.
It's possible that Hartley never had any intention of co operating with the documentary, and the purpose of her involvement was so that she could go away and attack it on her podcast, on her website, and any other interview she does in the future.
She must know deep down that Bamber is guilty, otherwise she wouldn't have to behave the way that she does.
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Yes, she is over reacting because all she had to do was say that she'd rather sit at a desk in an office. She could easily have politely said to the production team that sitting on the bed waiting for Bamber to phone trivialised what she's trying to do.
Again I concur
So why didn’t she assert this to the Mindhouse production team at the time?
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I think what she was doing was using the request as an excuse to attack the production team and denounce it as unfairly biased against Bamber.
I don’t recall Lorraine Hastings sitting on a bed talking about Bamber
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She must know deep down that Bamber is guilty, otherwise she wouldn't have to behave the way that she does.
Yvonne definitely appears conflicted
The ‘double binds’ are noticeable
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dceLVG0rdHE
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It's possible that Hartley never had any intention of co operating with the documentary,
And it’s possible Mindhouse may not have intended on using her in their docuseries ?
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It's possible that Hartley never had any intention of co operating with the documentary, and the purpose of her involvement was so that she could go away and attack it on her podcast, on her website, and any other interview she does in the future.
Whilst it appears highly probable Brett Collins polishing his Porche and combing his hair in the car window were ‘set up’ by the production team - he had the choice whether or not to go along with the idea - just as Yvonne did
The CT suggesting the Mindhouse production ‘raises serious issues about the treatment of women’ holds no weight as far as I can see - these appear to be projections
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I think what she was doing was using the request as an excuse to attack the production team and denounce it as unfairly biased against Bamber.
Do you think the CT have all these ‘industry contacts’ as they (Yvonne) claim or are they referring to people like Mark Williams Thomas or maybe exaggerating or making things up?
Yvonne claimed Lottie Gammon was ‘going round the office’ saying Bamber was guilty
I very much doubt Lottie Gammon spent/spends any real time in any office (She referred to editing the series with one other person) and therefore find the above hard to believe
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And it’s possible Mindhouse may not have intended on using her in their docuseries ?
A shamateur who claims to be a professional.
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While I'm not one to cause trouble, and I would urge all to be respectful, Shaun Attwood has left comments open on his video and you can @ Yvonne there :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf2WCKkT1M&t=1s
Bamber’s CT is made up of 5 people
Yvonne Hartley states at around 1:16:00
‘..we can’t keep letting erm television documentaries the media newspapers authors write what they want and we’re like we are only little group you know and it’s like we need to make a voice out there that’s even stronger so we wanna make more people listen so that’s why we decided right we’re gonna do these meetings every month we’re gonna put podcasts out you know so we’ve like recently in March when the submissions went into the CCRC we thought right we’ll tie that in and what we’ll do we’ll go through each piece of evidence and we’ll tell your everything about it and you can make your decision whether you believe us but everything taken from case material so we’ll give you that evidence and you judge for yourself then what you think so that’s what we’ve been doing isn’t it…’
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At the beginning of the podcast the narrator states,
‘The podcast goes on to discuss Mindhouse’s treatment of Yvonne - which raises serious issues about the treatment of women by the production’
What about ‘the treatment of women’ by Yvonne Hartley and the campaign team’?
I don’t consider Lottie Gammon or Flo Barrow to be female misogynists
I do however see a lot of unjustified hate and contempt for women coming from Bamber and many of his supporters
Are Yvonne Hartley and Emma Morris really not aware of the contempt and hatred they display towards Julie Mugford for example ?
or Sheila Caffell - who they want their followers to believe committed mass murder?
I sense real contempt and hatred in this podcast towards Julie ⬇️
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WbYZ4r9WalQ
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I sense real contempt and hatred in this podcast towards Julie ⬇️
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WbYZ4r9WalQ
Heidi claims here ⬆️ Julie would have stayed with Bamber had he not said it was over
🙄
Neither Heidi or Yvonne appear to have factored in Anji or Virginia Greaves
Yvonne also claims Julie loved Bamber ‘to the point of obsession’
Yvonne states of Julie,
‘She wanted to be lady of the manor’ 🙄
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Here, although not sure if there was a previous set... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12244.0 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12244.0)
Brett Collins apparently made a police witness statement dated 1st October 1985 (p.451 Carol Ann Lee - notes and references)
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Did you see them chuckling with glee at their recent "discovery", like a couple of kids who found a stash of porn mags under their parents' bed and weren't going to show them to their mates! The three burn marks are irrelevant... it was four bullets fired by Jeremy Bamber into his father's brain which killed him, and this "new evidence" is just another obfuscatory diversion soon to be tossed in the CCRC's waste bin.
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The CT suggesting the Mindhouse production ‘raises serious issues about the treatment of women’ holds no weight as far as I can see - these appear to be projections
They should listen back over some of their podcasts on Julie Mugford and hear how they treat her
Philip Walker in one podcast refers to Julie’s ‘imagination’ when it reality it’s his own
Here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MHz4F3WIBK8
Also Julie Mugford didn’t get £25,000
This number has been bandied about for years and I don’t recall anyone factoring in the solicitors cut
How much did Mr Church the solicitor receive from the deal he made with the NOTW?
Excerpts from Julie’s 11th April 2002 WS
’…my lawyers fees were drawn from these monies’
‘The lawyer made the deal until I was presented with the contract I had no idea who the other party was
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=288.msg4966#msg4966
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Did you see them chuckling with glee at their recent "discovery", like a couple of kids who found a stash of porn mags under their parents' bed and weren't going to show them to their mates! The three burn marks are irrelevant...
I did
Shaun Attwood is another creepy snake
And I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn Sandra Lean was somehow involved in putting them all in touch
Attwood mentioned killer Luke Mitchell at the very end of the video 🙄
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g
I don’t know if Brett Collins posted the comments on the above YouTube video but if he did
He states,
‘just saw the new episode and interview about my former friend Jeremy Bamber its as close to the truth as was told by me ! as i was there before and after the murders finally some truth BRETT COLLINS NEW ZEALAND
‘you had to be there before and after to no what really hapendl! looks like jeremy had a plan all along he promised to many women marrage when he got his money! (sic)
I agree with this and hope Kay doesn’t remove or edit her original version of the interview with Brett Collins as he made a number of interesting disclosures
For example,
At around 16:22 Brett states,
‘I think something went wrong’
What exactly did he mean by this?
Also just after this when Brett is referring to Julie he states,
‘Erm way before I ever met his girlfriend - his girlfriend and he weren’t what you’d call monogamous friendship he had several girls at the same time that all thought that they err were his girlfriend
The above sounds like Brett Collins is referring to a time prior to the murders because he also stated he didn’t arrive back to the UK until around two days before the funeral and he said at this time it was just Bamber and Julie
I’d like to see Virginia and Anji (Angela) Greaves police witness statements as I’m of the view they both lied to police and Virginia may well have committed perjury
I suspect the Greave sisters - one or both of them - are who Brett Collins met prior to the murders when he was visiting with Bamber
Brett Collins ⬇️
‘Erm way before I ever met his girlfriend - his girlfriend and he weren’t what you’d call monogamous friendship he had several girls at the same time that all thought that they err were his girlfriend
‘you had to be there before and after to no what really hapendl! looks like jeremy had a plan all along he promised to many women marrage when he got his money!
Brett Collins talked of Virginia and Angela Greaves ‘going to ground’ - it’s possible he was referring to the time prior to the murders
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this "new evidence" is just another obfuscatory diversion soon to be tossed in the CCRC's waste bin.
Of course it is
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Dee Sadler
@deedeesadler
Replying to
@SaraLovesOasis
and
@Bambertweets
The amount of misogynistic abuse the female members of this campaign team receives, beggars belief. Power to them. Red heart
10:39 PM · Oct 21, 2021·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/deedeesadler/status/1451302114639110146
Isn’t it Dee Sadler who narrates the misogynistic podcast on Julie Mugford?
The same podcast where someone ridicules Julie for having a collection of cuddly toys in her Uni dorm seemingly ignoring Anji Greaves http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11197.msg572685#msg572685 🙄
And what about the misogyny behind the false premise of Sheila having been responsible for her brothers crimes?
Why did the campaign team choose to include the comments about Julie’s alleged cuddly toys?
What was the relevance ?
The campaign team should look at their own ‘misogynistic abuse’ of people like Sheila and Julie
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Did you see them chuckling with glee at their recent "discovery", like a couple of kids who found a stash of porn mags under their parents' bed and weren't going to show them to their mates!
Apparently next week the campaign team are doing a podcast on Brett Collins and how he can’t be believed 🙄
Brett Collins who flew over to visit with Bamber in the months prior to the murders
During Brett Collins interviews he claimed Bamber was ‘happy’ he would have someone to go clubbing with 🙄
Was Bamber ‘happy’ because he’d have Brett Collins with him to meet with these alleged ‘mercenaries’ - the men Brett Collins described as being covered in tattoos 🙄
And ‘happy’ because he’d have Brett Collins staying with him - someone to thrash his murderous plans out with - his ‘‘sounding board’
I agree with this and hope Kay doesn’t remove or edit her original version of the interview with Brett Collins as he made a number of interesting disclosures
For example,
At around 16:22 Brett states,
‘I think something went wrong’
What exactly did he mean by this?
The above comment by Brett Collins is extremely telling and suggests he knows a whole lot more than he’s let on
For Brett Collins to say ‘I think something went wrong’ he must have known of Bamber’s previous plans
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When did Anji (Angela) Greaves tell Bamber her godfather was apparently Sir David Napley?
And what discussions did Anji and Bamber have regarding him?
What does Angela Greaves police witness statement say regarding this and when exactly did the campaign team become aware of this?
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Ignoring Kay Pages narration here (from around 17:10) https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-white-house/hes-where-he-belongs-w-brett-_n9tGAbVBwX/ Brett Collins appears to be referring to the time he visited Bamber *prior* to the murders
Brett Collins also refers to Bamber’s ‘darkest secret’ which I suspect he knows a whole lot more about - he’s given away numerous clues in the various interviews he’s given
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I’d also be interested to hear from Emma Morris on the date rape of the girl from the Chequers PH
It’s possible Bamber used cocaine like this sexual predator did ⬇️
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59013294.amp
Excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations
The detectives seemed anxious to probe Jeremy Bamber's sexual habits and preferences. They learned from Charles Marsden that Jeremy possessed an animal magnetism for women. Marsden said that while he knew of only two serious girlfriends, Suzette Ford and Julie Mugford, Jeremy had had many one-night stands. He enjoyed going to clubs, such as Stringfellows in London, pulling women. Marsden recalled an evening before the murders when he and Jeremy had gone drinking at Jeremy's local, the Chequers at Goldhangers. They had picked up a couple of girls, one of whom had agreed to return with them to Jeremy's cottage. Marsden, very drunk, had crashed out in Jeremy's bed. Some time later, he'd been awoken by movement in the bed. Lying there half asleep, Marsden realised that Jeremy had brought the girl upstairs and that the couple were having sex. The idea of three-in-a bed sex excited the detectives' curiosity still further. But Charles Marsden was at pains to insist that he hadn't taken part in the sex session. And when Jeremy returned from walking the girl home, Marsden himself had got up and driven home.
It’s also possible Charles Marsden knew/knows the above wasn’t consensual sex
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It’s possible Charles Marsden knew/knows the above wasn’t consensual sex
What date exactly does the following refer to ⬇️
Marsden said that he had visited Jeremy at his cottage the previous Thursday night. Brett Collins had cooked them a chicken dinner and the three had then repaired to the Caribbean Cottage at Burnham for drinks. Jeremy had announced that he and Julie had split up the previous weekend. While he didn't give a specific reason, Marsden had the impression that Julie had disliked Brett Collins. In any case, Jeremy added, he now had a new girlfriend, Virginia Greaves, who used to go out with Mike Deckers of the Frog and Beans. Jeremy also told Charles Marsden that he and Brett were going to sell Bourtree Cottage and move to Sheila's flat in Maida Vale. Virginia would move in too, Jeremy added.
Did some of the above ⬆️ occur prior to Bamber committing mass murder?
And how did Charles Marsden feel about Brett Collins?
Did Charles Marsden meet with Brett Collins when he first visited Bamber prior to the murders?
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Ignoring Kay Pages narration here (from around 17:10) https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-white-house/hes-where-he-belongs-w-brett-_n9tGAbVBwX/ Brett Collins appears to be referring to the time he visited Bamber *prior* to the murders
Brett Collins also refers to Bamber’s ‘darkest secret’ which I suspect he knows a whole lot more about - he’s given away numerous clues in the various interviews he’s given
What reason did Brett Collins give for not staying in the UK until Christmas http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12244.msg667541#msg667541 ?
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Did you see them chuckling with glee at their recent "discovery", like a couple of kids who found a stash of porn mags under their parents' bed and weren't going to show them to their mates! The three burn marks are irrelevant... it was four bullets fired by Jeremy Bamber into his father's brain which killed him, and this "new evidence" is just another obfuscatory diversion soon to be tossed in the CCRC's waste bin.
Philip Walker and Yvonne Hartley keep ignoring Anji and Virginia Greaves involvement in all this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MHz4F3WIBK8
Why?
They mention Liz Rimmimgton having slept with Bamber yet nothing about the night of the incident involving the girl from the Chequers public house
and nothing about Anji or Virginia apparently both sleeping with Bamber around the same time ?
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This from Brett Collins stands out
‘Erm way before I ever met his girlfriend - his girlfriend and he weren’t what you’d call monogamous friendship he had several girls at the same time that all thought that they err were his girlfriend
Who were these ‘several girls’ Brett Collins referred to and did this include Anji Greaves?
When did Anji Greaves husband learn of his wife’s involvement with Bamber and did Essex police ever interview him?
According to Kay Page - Angela Greaves married in July 1985 a month before Bamber murdered his family
If she was in a relationship with Bamber and not her sister Virginia - why did the two sisters lie?
What was their motivation to lie during a mass murder investigation?
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This from Brett Collins stands out
‘Erm way before I ever met his girlfriend - his girlfriend and he weren’t what you’d call monogamous friendship he had several girls at the same time that all thought that they err were his girlfriend
Who were these ‘several girls’ Brett Collins referred to and did this include Anji Greaves?
When did Anji Greaves husband learn of his wife’s involvement with Bamber and did Essex police ever interview him?
According to Kay Page - Angela Greaves married in July 1985 a month before Bamber murdered his family
If she was in a relationship with Bamber and not her sister Virginia - why did the two sisters lie?
What was their motivation to lie during a mass murder investigation?
According to Brett Collins evidence he apparently first arrived in the UK to visit Bamber the ‘2nd or 3rd week of June’ 1985
It’s possible he met with one or both of the Greaves sisters when he first visited Bamber in June 1985 - a month before Anji Greaves apparently got married
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@ Philip Walker and Yvonne Hartley
If Julie Mugford was ‘possessive’ of Bamber as you claim in your podcast here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MHz4F3WIBK8
How was Bamber able to cheat on her with so many other females (And possible males - Brett Collins has already confirmed he and Bamber were an item) ?
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Ignoring Kay Pages narration here (from around 17:10) https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-white-house/hes-where-he-belongs-w-brett-_n9tGAbVBwX/ Brett Collins appears to be referring to the time he visited Bamber *prior* to the murders
Brett Collins also refers to Bamber’s ‘darkest secret’ which I suspect he knows a whole lot more about - he’s given away numerous clues in the various interviews he’s given
According to Yvonne Hartley (In her and Emma Morris’ 2nd part video 🙄)
DC Cowell (?) of the met police thought a piece of evidence Julie Mugford gave in 2002 ‘was very worthy of note’
Yvonne quotes DC Cowell
‘Julie Smerchanski was asked, Susan Battersby states that you told her about Brett Collins being possibly involved in violent crime in New Zealand she said Jeremy had told me that Brett had used a baseball bat to kill somebody because they owed money
They lived together in both Australia, Sydney and New Zealand but the offences were in New Zealand and I believe Bretts brother was dealing in drugs in Europe
I was led to believe that Brett through his brother could get fake passports to allow him to move about
She was then asked if Jeremy could have confided in Brett she said yes
I believe Brett was consulted prior to the murders that was my gut feeling
His arrival before the murders was bizarre and his return afterwards
He turned up suddenly
I feel when Brett turned up Jeremy changed
I did not like Brett and it was a mutual dislike
I went to London when Brett was around
He’s subjective but he’s not a nice man
Money and lifestyle were important to him
He had a crush on Jeremy
It was more than a friendship in my estimation for me I’ve got no real evidence but I feel sure that he was involved
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According to Yvonne Hartley (In her and Emma Morris’ 2nd part video 🙄)
DC Cowell (?) of the met police thought a piece of evidence Julie Mugford gave in 2002 ‘was very worthy of note’
Yvonne quotes DC Cowell
‘Julie Smerchanski was asked, Susan Battersby states that you told her about Brett Collins being possibly involved in violent crime in New Zealand she said Jeremy had told me that Brett had used a baseball bat to kill somebody because they owed money
They lived together in both Australia, Sydney and New Zealand but the offences were in New Zealand and I believe Bretts brother was dealing in drugs in Europe
I was led to believe that Brett through his brother could get fake passports to allow him to move about
She was then asked if Jeremy could have confided in Brett she said yes
I believe Brett was consulted prior to the murders that was my gut feeling
His arrival before the murders was bizarre and his return afterwards
He turned up suddenly
I feel when Brett turned up Jeremy changed
I did not like Brett and it was a mutual dislike
I went to London when Brett was around
He’s subjective but he’s not a nice man
Money and lifestyle were important to him
He had a crush on Jeremy
It was more than a friendship in my estimation for me I’ve got no real evidence but I feel sure that he was involved
I agree with Julie
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According to Yvonne Hartley (In her and Emma Morris’ 2nd part video 🙄)
DC Cowell (?) of the met police thought a piece of evidence Julie Mugford gave in 2002 ‘was very worthy of note’
Yvonne quotes DC Cowell
‘Julie Smerchanski was asked, Susan Battersby states that you told her about Brett Collins being possibly involved in violent crime in New Zealand she said Jeremy had told me that Brett had used a baseball bat to kill somebody because they owed money
They lived together in both Australia, Sydney and New Zealand but the offences were in New Zealand and I believe Bretts brother was dealing in drugs in Europe
I was led to believe that Brett through his brother could get fake passports to allow him to move about
She was then asked if Jeremy could have confided in Brett she said yes
I believe Brett was consulted prior to the murders that was my gut feeling
His arrival before the murders was bizarre and his return afterwards
He turned up suddenly
I feel when Brett turned up Jeremy changed
I did not like Brett and it was a mutual dislike
I went to London when Brett was around
He’s subjective but he’s not a nice man
Money and lifestyle were important to him
He had a crush on Jeremy
It was more than a friendship in my estimation for me I’ve got no real evidence but I feel sure that he was involved
The above can be heard here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hwo99LneJI
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The above can be heard here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hwo99LneJI
Yvonne Hartley and Emma Morris again omit to mention Anji and Virginia Greaves 🙄
If Anji was due to marry in two weeks as Brett Collins claimed to Kay Page - this could suggest he met one or both of the sisters prior to Bamber committing the murder - when he first arrived in the UK
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Yvonne Hartley and Emma Morris again omit to mention Anji and Virginia Greaves 🙄
If Anji was due to marry in two weeks as Brett Collins claimed to Kay Page - this could suggest he met one or both of the sisters prior to Bamber committing the murder - when he first arrived in the UK
Why am I not surprised Emma Morris also supports Paul Howells killer 🙄
Emma Morris
Still no news on Julius Jones. This is cruel and unusual punishment for him and his family. It’s not even about guilt or innocence anymore. He’s set to die in less than 7 hours and still no decision! What Governor Stitt is doing is beyond wicked to both Julius’s family and the Howell family delaying the decision like this.
Jones’s trial lawyer on the #innocencefraud of this case
⬇️
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ClxblEkiDyQ
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Simon Hattenstone was involved in promoting Amanda Knox’s Innocence fraud too 🙄
He’d apparently corresponded with her since 2009
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/08/who-is-amanda-knox-interview
Amanda Knox’s ‘3 hour lie-a-thon’ with Joe Rogan
⬇️
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TvyJW8rLFbw&feature=youtu.be
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Yvonne Hartley stated,
‘They want me a professional who’s worked on this campaign for 11 years now to sit on a bed and wait for a telephone call from him - it was not happening at all’
Michael O’Brien also referred to himself as a ‘professional’ in the recent video with Yvonne and Philip @)(++(*
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"Professional" what, one has to ask... time-waster?... fabricator?... boot-licker-in-chief?
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"Professional" what, one has to ask... time-waster?... fabricator?... boot-licker-in-chief?
There is mention of these ‘professionals’ in Part 2 of the UK’s Innocence Fraud news series
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There is mention of these ‘professionals’ in Part 2 of the UK’s Innocence Fraud news series
Part 2 ⬇️ (Working title)
’The Innocence Fraud of the ‘White House Farm’ Killer - Psychopath Jeremy Bamber & some of his Enablers’
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Professional? - Is this a tacit admission that she gets a wage from JB Ltd?
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Professional? - Is this a tacit admission that she gets a wage from JB Ltd?
Maybe
Yvonne Hartley refers to herself as a ‘researcher’ here https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09883616/filing-history
She was made a director of JB Ltd on 23rd September 2021
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APRIL... Were you looking for this?... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12158.msg667538#msg667538 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12158.msg667538#msg667538)
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APRIL... Were you looking for this?... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12158.msg667538#msg667538 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=12158.msg667538#msg667538)
AWW!! YAY!!! THANK-YOU, MYSTER!! INCASE YOU'RE WONDERING, THERE'S A SNOOPING WITCH OVER YONDER WHO SEEMS TO HAVE A "THING" ABOUT ME POSTING HERE, SO I'M WRITING THIS IN CAPITOLS SO WHEN SHE STALKS ME, SHE CAN FIND IT QUICKLY AND ANNOUNCE IT ON FORUM! @)(++(* &^^&*
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AWW!! YAY!!! THANK-YOU, MYSTER!! INCASE YOU'RE WONDERING, THERE'S A SNOOPING WITCH OVER YONDER WHO SEEMS TO HAVE A "THING" ABOUT ME POSTING HERE, SO I'M WRITING THIS IN CAPITOLS SO WHEN SHE STALKS ME, SHE CAN FIND IT QUICKLY AND ANNOUNCE IT ON FORUM! @)(++(* &^^&*
LOL!!! @)(++(*
Did you watch the four part Mindhouse/Theroux documentary?
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LOL!!! @)(++(*
Did you watch the four part Mindhouse/Theroux documentary?
I didn't because I don't have Sky -I guess it will air on Freeview at some time. I was hugely amused at the swift about turn, by supporters, who'd claimed THIS was the docu which would finally reveal that JB was innocent, because Theroux, the one person who could be trusted to do it, would get to the truth. Mmm? Seems they weren't happy with the truth he revealed.
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Telling the tale of The Bambers for Sky crime - 24th September 2021
’Telling the complex, tragic and compelling family story underpinning the case was key to our doc series, says director Lotte Gammon
The Bambers: Murder at the Farm, Sky Crime
Production company Mindhouse Productions
Commissioner Poppy Dixon
Length 4 x 60 minutes
TX 26 September, Sky Crime – also available on Sky Showcase and NOW
Executive producers Arron Fellows; Louis Theroux
Series director Lottie Gammon
Series producer Flo Barrow
Line producer Suzy Burnet
Archive producer James Hunt
Director of development Nancy Strang
Head of production Sophie Ardern
Post-house Molinare
I was immediately curious when executive producers Arron Fellows and Louis Theroux approached me about a series on the White House Farm murders. The case is one of the UK’s most notorious mass killings and occupies an unusual place in the UK justice system – a convicted murderer, on a full-term life sentence, who still protests his innocence.
There are already numerous books on the subject, and a successful drama series covering the investigation and trial of Jeremy Bamber, so our first question was whether the series could really bring anything new to the story.
It became clear that this couldn’t simply be a retrospective documentary – but one that continued up to the present day. Online forums continue to fervently debate the details of the case, and Bamber, supported by lawyers and a campaign group, has appealed against his conviction on a number of occasions.
I had come into the story cold – I knew very little aside from the sometimes quite outlandish headlines. But as soon as we started digging, I realised that there was a complex, tragic and compelling family story underpinning the case that needed space to breathe.
Sky had originally commissioned 3 x 45 minute programmes, but as our edit progressed and more contributors agreed to be interviewed, it became clear that the best way to really do the story and characters justice was to add a fourth episode. Sky too understood how rich the story was and we were delighted when they agreed.
We initially talked about using reconstruction– but it soon became clear that recreating an entire 1980s farm house was not realistic or particularly desirable, both creatively and financially.
There are detailed – and hugely distressing – crime scene photos. We debated whether we should use them as part of the series and felt it was important not to sanitise a crime like this. Equally we wanted to respect the victims and their relatives by not showing anything too graphic.
As a solution, we decided to make a model of the house as a way of allowing the audience to take in the crime scene and its details without compromising the dignity of the victims.
Our art director John Reynolds went to great lengths to make sure that the model was exact – going so far as counting the bricks on the front of the house and using the original floor plans made by the police. We wanted it to feel hand-made and have texture, but not cartoonish.
We eventually made six models of the interior and exterior of the house which each played specific roles in the series – interior models of the key crime scenes, top-down “birds eye view” models and one enormous 4x4m model of the outside of the farmhouse.
Shooting the models was a new challenge – we shot on a A7S III and used a mini motion control rig called the Syrp Genie which helped create smooth, flowing shots programmed via an iPad.
Unsurprisingly, archive is the backbone of our film. I’ll never forget the giddiness in our archive producer James Hunt’s voice when he told me he had discovered a box file filled with a press agency’s negatives of the Bamber case. Instead of a select group of photos readily available, we suddenly had access to 1500 - and it meant we could string a photographer’s rapid-fire shots together in sequences that almost feel like filmed footage.
Rather than shoot expensive and potentially quite cliched courtroom reconstructions, we found the original trial’s court sketch-artist Sian Frances who reproduced and added to her work from the time.
My tricks of the trade - Lottie Gammon
Prep your interviews as much as you can but let the real thing be a conversation, put your notes down
Making a single narrative over several episodes is hard, hang on to your editor
Opinions are powerful but find your neutral voices to guide you through the story
Value your production team, a great PM is worth their weight in gold
Find great creative collaborators (editors, composers, DoPs) and trust their advice.
Plan your best and worst case scenarios. Strategise for both. You’ll end up somewhere in the middle
Aside from the now-familiar problems of Covid on the shoot, we had one other key challenge. When I first spoke to our executive producer Arron Fellows about the project there was one small obstacle in the way – I was 12 weeks pregnant and due to give birth halfway through the production schedule. Incredibly, Mindhouse were very open to the idea of me working until I gave birth, taking a few months off, and then coming back to finish the series.
My then three-month-old daughter was even present at a crucial interview and later at the model shoot. This was the second project of mine in which Louis and Arron had taken a pregnancy in their stride - in 2018 we made a film together in the States (Louis Theroux: The Night In Question) when I was pregnant with my first child and was so unwell that Louis had to rush me around in a wheelchair and I ended up in the ER.
Throughout production, my rocks were my line producer Suzy Burnet, who made sure the schedule didn’t break me, and my series producer Flo Barrow who stepped in to do interviews when I wasn’t able to and oversaw the edits for episodes three and four. Having a baby mid-production is not something I’d take lightly but - if you are offered a job you really want to do - it shows it can be done.
Flo Barrow
Series producer
Jeremy Bamber’s continual assertions of innocence have kept this case uniquely in the media spotlight for 35 years. From the outset, we knew his name went hand in hand with strong and often passionately opposing opinions - we set out to secure voices from both sides of the divide.
As with any “true crime”, this is difficult and painful territory for those who have had to live through it – and for a community in a tiny Essex village which still endures ongoing notoriety. For that reason, several key contributors had previously never agreed to take part in any media and their first-hand testimony was a priority.
We worked hard to prove ourselves; we clearly laid out that our aim was not just to explore the original investigation but some of the hallmarks of the case since his conviction which had never been looked into before. It took months, and many attempts, to set up meetings with apprehensive contributors, not helped by and often delayed by the restrictive nature of the pandemic.
Building local contacts who introduced us to people was vital - as was social media and the electoral roll. Breakthroughs came from unexpected places – we found a prosecution witness in Melbourne, the owner of Bamber’s favourite Essex drinking hole in Brisbane and his best friend and confidante from the time in Auckland.
The pandemic intensified a lot of the challenges but there were some silver linings. The flexibility to interview on Zoom with an international crew meant we could interview these key contributors who had ended up further afield.
Closer to home, we followed some interesting leads. A tip off from a retired modelling agent led us to a photographer, David Thorpe, who took the iconic image of Jeremy Bamber’s sister, Sheila Caffell. The photo was splashed on every tabloid front page the day she died. We didn’t want to just use the photo but find the story behind it.
We also unearthed unique material, including from journalist David James Smith who offered us exclusive access to his recordings of an interview with Jeremy Bamber from 2010; and author Carol Ann Lee discovered that her Dictaphone surprisingly still had audio on it from meeting Sheila and June Bamber’s psychiatrist as part of research for her book, The Murders at White House Farm.
Some people declined to be interviewed – many for very understandable reasons. We also worked with Jeremy Bamber’s official Innocence Campaign for many months before they decided to withdraw from the series; they became convinced it would be biased against Jeremy, a man they passionately believe is innocent.
Yet the finished series contains friends, family, police, lawyers, journalists and pro-Bamber campaigners telling their story, many for the first time. I would say you cannot underestimate the time and patience needed to secure the trust of the right people. For us, it took a year. But it was worth it.
(Broadcastnow.co.uk)
Poppy Dixon (https://www.aidc.com.au/whos-coming/poppy-dixon/ ) is behind promoting another blatant innocence fraud TV show on the murders of Mandy Power, her mother Doris Dawson and her young daughters Katie and Emily
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Poppy Dixon (https://www.aidc.com.au/whos-coming/poppy-dixon/ ) is behind promoting another blatant innocence fraud TV show on the murders of Mandy Power, her mother Doris Dawson and her young daughters Katie and Emily
Poppy Dixon mentions Psychopathic Bamber here https://www.broadcastintel.com/podcasts/episode-30-poppy-dixon-director-of-documentaries-a
(From around 12:00)
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‘On the 15th of July 2015 BBC Radio Essex featured Trudi Benjamin from the Official Campaign discussing the Bamber-Bake Off https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/james-whale-debate
Oh dear
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An extract from Louis Theroux's talking heads' series... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3jsWZTCSyM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3jsWZTCSyM)
Thanks Adam.