Goncalo Amaral.

[barrier]

might have done if the not fit for purpose PJ had kept the bedsheets

History is full of mights,maybe's and if's.

[Mr Gray]

History is full of mights,maybe's and if's.

no one is denying that...what im denying is the claim that the FSS was closed as it wasnt fit for purpose...absolute rubbish

[G-Unit]

I don't think one can say that, unless their work has been scrutinised by other competent  bodies.

Considering that the McCann case ocurred during the years during which concerns were raised about the FSS, I would have thought that they might have looked at the findings again, given the world-wide interest in the case.

[Brietta]

Considering that the McCann case ocurred during the years during which concerns were raised about the FSS, I would have thought that they might have looked at the findings again, given the world-wide interest in the case.

Please detail 'concerns raised' ... I for one have no idea what concerns you are referring to.

[Mr Gray]

Considering that the McCann case ocurred during the years during which concerns were raised about the FSS, I would have thought that they might have looked at the findings again, given the world-wide interest in the case.

the concerns raised at the time were concerned with the admissibility of LCN dna due to the Omagh bombing case. I didnt see any suggestion that the analysis itself was wrong. LCN dna is not admissible as evidence in many countries  as evidence as I understand....including portugal. If im right it makes a further mockery re the portuguese case against the McCanns

[G-Unit]

Please detail 'concerns raised' ... I for one have no idea what concerns you are referring to.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6381969.stm

[Mr Gray]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6381969.stm

that article may be innaccurate...this is what the report found..

31 January 2008
Issue: 7306 / Categories: News , Procedure & practice , Profession , Public


Low copy number DNA evidence will continue to be admissible in court, after a Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) review found noth­ing to suggest its use should be discontinued.

Last December, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) recommended a suspension of low copy number DNA analysis in criminal cases after a judge in the trial of the alleged Omagh bomber expressed concern at the scientific validity and possi­bility of cross-contamination of the technique.

The CPS reviewed current cases involving the use of evidence gathered from very small samples of DNA and has recommended that low copy DNA analysis provided by the Forensic Science Service should “remain available as potentially admissible evidence”.



https://www.newlawjournal.co.uk/content/low-copy-dna-evidence-admissible-court

[Brietta]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6381969.stm

Snip
There is no doubt that the Forensic Science Service, since 1991, has led the world on the development of quality standards. They now have, by far, the broadest "scope of accreditation", which is the number of methods they cover in their accreditation.   https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmsctech/855/85506.htm#a18

[G-Unit]

no one is denying that...what im denying is the claim that the FSS was closed as it wasnt fit for purpose...absolute rubbish

In my opinion ACPO took that view, and the police moved away from the FSS to other providers. That caused losses of 2M per month and ultimately to closure. The FSS lost the confidence of it's customers.

[Mr Gray]

In my opinion ACPO took that view, and the police moved away from the FSS to other providers. That caused losses of 2M per month and ultimately to closure. The FSS lost the confidence of it's customers.

You are entitled to that opinion...an opinion based on bias..imo..what no one  is entitled to is to express as a fact the FSS was not fit for purpose

[Angelo222]

You are entitled to that opinion...an opinion based on bias..imo..what no one  is entitled to is to express as a fact the FSS was not fit for purpose

Ultimately it became unreliable and had to be shut down.

[Mr Gray]

Ultimately it became unreliable and had to be shut down.

Absolute tripe


 science.

Subsequently the government sought to persuade the Science and Technology Committee of the House of Commons (ST&C) that the reason for closing it was it was losing £2m a month, which the ST&C found to be untrue in a damning report produced in June 2011. Why should a constituent part of the CJS have to be profitable? Which other part of the CJS is profitable in financial terms? At a net annual cost of about £12m (the figure the ST&C found was the correct one) the FSS provided a world-class, pioneering body that was internationally respected and consulted and was 'a jewel in the crown of the CJS and an exemplary example of value for money'. The bean counters at the Home Office failed to understand that for a body providing a public service the equation is value received for funding provided

[kizzy]

Just a very  clumsy attempt to rubbish a very competent organisation because it didn't find evidence against the McCanns....par for the course

GA regrets ever sending the DNA to that lab.IMO  seems very unprofessional,

snips


We confidently wait for the evaluation reports from FSS. A few days after the samples are sent, we are informed that the DNA of the blood found in the boot of the McCanns' car shows a significant match - 50% - with Gerald's, which means that it is definitely the blood of one of his children. We telephone the public minister to pass on this initial result and wait for the follow-up to the analyses and definite conclusions But the laboratory takes its time.

At our insistence, Stuart contacts the FSS and asks them if they think the Portuguese are idiots. We hear him saying: "With a lot less than that, we would have already arrested someone in England." I look at my colleagues and see that they are as stupefied as I am. In fact, in Portugal, it's not so easy to arrest someone. We explain to Stuart that the McCanns interrogations would not result in detention. According to Portuguese law, the crimes of concealment of a corpse and simulating an abduction are not liable to remanding in custody.



As for the second case, after an explanation about the DNA components in Madeleine's genetic profile, it concludes that 15 out of 19 markers in Madeleine's profile are present in the sample examined. Only 4 short of 100% reliability. The FSS specialists qualify the results as, "complex," and state that these 15 markers are not enough to conclude with certainty that it's definitely Madeleine's DNA profile, especially as Low Copy Number picked out a total of 37 in the sample. That means that at least three individuals contributed to this result.







The FSS has still not provided the result of the technical analysis of the hair found in the boot of the car. Once more, Stuart has to contact the laboratory. Nothing has been done. We want to know two things: if the hair is indeed Madeleine's, and if it comes from a living or a dead person. The FSS can only answer the first question. English colleagues present at the meeting raise the possibility of the hair being sent to other European laboratories which have the resources to clear up the second point for us: hair from a living or a dead person. But the FSS does not seem to want to part with the hair. They claim that using a colour comparison test they can establish if the hair belongs to Madeleine and in a second stage, identify the DNA profile. None of that will happen. We never find out if the hair was Madeleine's or her parents' or her brother's or her sister's, even though the laboratory has the DNA profiles of each member of the family.

[Carana]

I don't see the problem. Corte Real agreed with the conclusions of the FSS when interviewed for Amaral's own documentary.

[Mr Gray]

GA regrets ever sending the DNA to that lab.IMO  seems very unprofessional,

snips


We confidently wait for the evaluation reports from FSS. A few days after the samples are sent, we are informed that the DNA of the blood found in the boot of the McCanns' car shows a significant match - 50% - with Gerald's, which means that it is definitely the blood of one of his children. We telephone the public minister to pass on this initial result and wait for the follow-up to the analyses and definite conclusions But the laboratory takes its time.

At our insistence, Stuart contacts the FSS and asks them if they think the Portuguese are idiots. We hear him saying: "With a lot less than that, we would have already arrested someone in England." I look at my colleagues and see that they are as stupefied as I am. In fact, in Portugal, it's not so easy to arrest someone. We explain to Stuart that the McCanns interrogations would not result in detention. According to Portuguese law, the crimes of concealment of a corpse and simulating an abduction are not liable to remanding in custody.



As for the second case, after an explanation about the DNA components in Madeleine's genetic profile, it concludes that 15 out of 19 markers in Madeleine's profile are present in the sample examined. Only 4 short of 100% reliability. The FSS specialists qualify the results as, "complex," and state that these 15 markers are not enough to conclude with certainty that it's definitely Madeleine's DNA profile, especially as Low Copy Number picked out a total of 37 in the sample. That means that at least three individuals contributed to this result.







The FSS has still not provided the result of the technical analysis of the hair found in the boot of the car. Once more, Stuart has to contact the laboratory. Nothing has been done. We want to know two things: if the hair is indeed Madeleine's, and if it comes from a living or a dead person. The FSS can only answer the first question. English colleagues present at the meeting raise the possibility of the hair being sent to other European laboratories which have the resources to clear up the second point for us: hair from a living or a dead person. But the FSS does not seem to want to part with the hair. They claim that using a colour comparison test they can establish if the hair belongs to Madeleine and in a second stage, identify the DNA profile. None of that will happen. We never find out if the hair was Madeleine's or her parents' or her brother's or her sister's, even though the laboratory has the DNA profiles of each member of the family.

amaral hadnt got a clue about DNA