Goncalo Amaral.

[Mr Gray]

I assumed it was a given that on a site called miscarriage of justice we are all aware that wrongful convictions or acquittals are quite common. With that in mind please point out which part of my post (reproduced below) that you find to be incorrect or misleading.

“Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.”

again you dont define ..proof..

A court proves  a case beyond reasonable doubt...that doesnt mean the alegation is true

[Venturi Swirl]

Please point me to the post where I argue so strenuously that Cipriano's conviction was not a wrongful conviction.

Oh right, so you concede it may well be a wrongful conviction?  My apologies, I thought you were arguing that it could not be. 

[Icanhandlethetruth]

again you dont define ..proof..

A court proves  a case beyond reasonable doubt...that doesnt mean the alegation is true

I thought it was a given that proof in a legal sense means beyond all reasonable doubt. If we say that a conviction is just an opinion nothing more, we are belittling and denigrating the legal systems that have operated all over the world for thousands of years. 

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Oh right, so you concede it may well be a wrongful conviction?  My apologies, I thought you were arguing that it could not be.

I don't concede it because to concede I must have first held a different view. Any conviction can be a wrongful conviction.

[Mr Gray]

I thought it was a given that proof in a legal sense means beyond all reasonable doubt. If we say that a conviction is just an opinion nothing more, we are belittling and denigrating the legal systems that have operated all over the world for thousands of years.

It is an opinion based on the evidence...what else can it be. That's exactly why there are miscarriages of justice.

what else can it possibly be apart from an opinion

[Icanhandlethetruth]

It is an opinion based on the evidence...what else can it be. That's exactly why there are miscarriages of justice.

what else can it possibly be apart from an opinion

It is an opinion based on the evidence, but to refer to as just an opinion and not a verdict denigrates the whole legal system.
And using your logic it still applies that you believe it is opinion that Ian Huntley is a murderer. If not why is his case different?

[Mr Gray]

It is an opinion based on the evidence, but to refer to as just an opinion and not a verdict denigrates the whole legal system.
And using your logic it still applies that you believe it is opinion that Ian Huntley is a murderer. If not why is his case different?

So you now agree a verdict is an opinion...nothing more. How valid the opinion is depends on the evidence presented.. Cases vary as to the level of evidence presented so that's what makes cases different.

[The General]

So you now agree a verdict is an opinion...nothing more. How valid the opinion is depends on the evidence presented.. Cases vary as to the level of evidence presented so that's what makes cases different.

You've changed your tune; earlier the concept was an absolute - you're qualifying the opinion now.
At least you're turning in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

So you now agree a verdict is an opinion...nothing more. How valid the opinion is depends on the evidence presented.. Cases vary as to the level of evidence presented so that's what makes cases different.

No, I disagree a verdict and an opinion are different things. A verdict is reached by a person’s opinion but when a verdict is decided it is no longer opinion.
So is Ciprianos conviction opinion whereas Huntleys isnt?

[Mr Gray]

You've changed your tune; earlier the concept was an absolute - you're qualifying the opinion now.
At least you're turning in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

I havent changed anything...you are obvioulsy not following the logic

a verdict is opinion based on evidence


Show me where Ive said anything different..perhaps youve imagined it...the posts are all there ..have  a look

[Venturi Swirl]

No, I disagree a verdict and an opinion are different things. A verdict is reached by a person’s opinion but when a verdict is decided it is no longer opinion.
So is Ciprianos conviction opinion whereas Huntleys isnt?

What is a verdict then?  The truth?

[Mr Gray]

No, I disagree a verdict and an opinion are different things. A verdict is reached by a person’s opinion but when a verdict is decided it is no longer opinion.
So is Ciprianos conviction opinion whereas Huntleys isnt?

you are wrong...they are both opinion

[Icanhandlethetruth]

What is a verdict then?  The truth?

No its a decision based on evidence presented before a court.

[Venturi Swirl]

No its a decision based on evidence presented before a court.

In my opinion based on the evidence X is guilty and therefore I decide to find him guilty.  It's all mincing words at the end of the day innit.

[Eleanor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisitorial_system

There goes Leonor's Confession down the pan.  More evidence for The ECHR.