Author Topic: Goncalo Amaral.  (Read 408648 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4215 on: March 02, 2022, 02:49:09 PM »
I wouldn't expect any police force to investigate something for which there was no evidence. The Greek police didn't.
Perhaps you can explain this
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/people/ben-needhams-family-given-fresh-hope-on-30th-anniversary-of-sheffield-toddlers-disappearance-as-new-witnesses-emerge-3320556
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Ms Para glider

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4216 on: March 02, 2022, 03:29:31 PM »
The last sentence - as I've mentioned before, I don't really buy the 'inept investigation' schtick, not entirely, and not any more or less than any other police force. The scrutiny was immense from the get go and Leicestershire Police were entwined in the investigation very early on. Additionally, several outside agents also participated, so they were equally inept.
Did Amaral, et al (nice rhyming couplet there to add to my limerick database) go off on one, or were they following the evidence under intense global scrutiny? - Let's never forget the Murat whack-a-mole episode.

The failings of the investigation have no doubt been debated and discussed here ad nauseam (bit more latin for ya)  8(0(* so I don't really want to dredge through all that. I doubt even the most hardened sceptic would deny that things could have been done better though.

My point was in relation to your claim about it having to be some perfectly executed crime, a claim I often see touted on the basis that there were no traces of an intruder. But it's very possible he just got lucky. And it's also very possible that there were traces, but the police didn't do a good enough job of highlighting or searching for them. How many forensic samples did they collect from the apartment during the initial sweep for example (excluding hairs)? What kind of tests did they carry out to check for the presence of any incapacitating agents? What CCTV did they collect from the surrounding area before it got wiped over? How can we be sure they don't in fact have forensics of the intruder, but just failed to assign them to anyone, like has apparently happened in the other 2 cases I cited? How can we be sure that forensic traces were left, but had been contaminated by their failure to preserve the integrity of the crime scene?

My argument is that people point to the implausibility of an intruder on the basis of what was NOT found. But they fail to question how intensive and professional the search for looking for those things actually was.

Offline jassi

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4217 on: March 02, 2022, 04:20:13 PM »

Making an argument about evidence that hypothetically might have existed  but wasn't found is pointless.

Police can only work with evidence  that they actually have.

IMO
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline G-Unit

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4219 on: March 02, 2022, 06:28:42 PM »
What about it?
Read it, then explain why Greek authorities were prepared to investigate a possible sighting of Ben Needham last year if they rejected the possibility that Ben had been abducted.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4220 on: March 02, 2022, 06:29:42 PM »
Making an argument about evidence that hypothetically might have existed  but wasn't found is pointless.

Police can only work with evidence  that they actually have.

IMO
Everything we discuss is pointless, what’s new.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4221 on: March 02, 2022, 06:57:21 PM »
Making an argument about evidence that hypothetically might have existed  but wasn't found is pointless.

Police can only work with evidence  that they actually have.

IMO

There's a lot of 'what if' and 'perhaps' used because the evidence doesn't support some people's opinions imo.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4222 on: March 02, 2022, 07:00:39 PM »
There's a lot of 'what if' and 'perhaps' used because the evidence doesn't support some people's opinions imo.
What if you stopped claiming as fact that there’s no evidence of abduction?  Perhaps if you familiarize yourself with the definition of “evidence “ the penny may drop and  you will stop making this claim.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Angelo222

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4223 on: March 02, 2022, 07:33:47 PM »
What if you stopped claiming as fact that there’s no evidence of abduction?  Perhaps if you familiarize yourself with the definition of “evidence “ the penny may drop and  you will stop making this claim.

We've been over this dozens of times for as long as I've been a member and nothing has changed that I have seen. I saw no evidence of an abduction, all we have was the McCanns claims about doors and windows. For all anyone really knows the kid walked out herself.

Add to this the conduct of the parents in the days following Maddie's mysterious disappearance, the laughing, the jogging and God knows what else followed by the attempts to thwart the investigators followed by the refusal of her mother to answer any police questions at the arguido interview.

Not really the conduct of someone who had a child abducted by a stranger imho???
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 07:38:17 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4224 on: March 02, 2022, 07:41:51 PM »
The failings of the investigation have no doubt been debated and discussed here ad nauseam (bit more latin for ya)  8(0(* so I don't really want to dredge through all that. I doubt even the most hardened sceptic would deny that things could have been done better though.

My point was in relation to your claim about it having to be some perfectly executed crime, a claim I often see touted on the basis that there were no traces of an intruder. But it's very possible he just got lucky. And it's also very possible that there were traces, but the police didn't do a good enough job of highlighting or searching for them. How many forensic samples did they collect from the apartment during the initial sweep for example (excluding hairs)? What kind of tests did they carry out to check for the presence of any incapacitating agents? What CCTV did they collect from the surrounding area before it got wiped over? How can we be sure they don't in fact have forensics of the intruder, but just failed to assign them to anyone, like has apparently happened in the other 2 cases I cited? How can we be sure that forensic traces were left, but had been contaminated by their failure to preserve the integrity of the crime scene?

My argument is that people point to the implausibility of an intruder on the basis of what was NOT found. But they fail to question how intensive and professional the search for looking for those things actually was.

Which all ultimately points to the kid walking out of the apartment under her own steam and getting into trouble outside.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline G-Unit

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4225 on: March 02, 2022, 08:49:14 PM »
What if you stopped claiming as fact that there’s no evidence of abduction?  Perhaps if you familiarize yourself with the definition of “evidence “ the penny may drop and  you will stop making this claim.

Are you saying that an open window is evidence of abduction?
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4226 on: March 02, 2022, 08:55:18 PM »
Are you saying that an open window is evidence of abduction?

It is

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4227 on: March 02, 2022, 08:59:46 PM »
We've been over this dozens of times for as long as I've been a member and nothing has changed that I have seen. I saw no evidence of an abduction, all we have was the McCanns claims about doors and windows. For all anyone really knows the kid walked out herself.

Add to this the conduct of the parents in the days following Maddie's mysterious disappearance, the laughing, the jogging and God knows what else followed by the attempts to thwart the investigators followed by the refusal of her mother to answer any police questions at the arguido interview.

Not really the conduct of someone who had a child abducted by a stranger imho???

You're right.. Not the conduct of a parent whose child was abducted by a paedophile... But precisely the conduct you would expect from a parent who's child walked out of the apartment and was then abducted by a paedophile.. Well spotted

Offline Ms Para glider

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4228 on: March 02, 2022, 09:01:02 PM »
Making an argument about evidence that hypothetically might have existed  but wasn't found is pointless.

Police can only work with evidence  that they actually have.

IMO

Youre completely ignoring the point I was making. The deflection tactic doesn't surprise me. But do feel free to point out where I said police could work with evidence they don't have, seeing as you seem to think this was my argument.

Offline Brietta

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4229 on: March 02, 2022, 09:02:01 PM »
Which all ultimately points to the kid walking out of the apartment under her own steam and getting into trouble outside.

Sigh ~ you've certainly got it right that "the kid" got into trouble.  The Germans are confident that they have the evidence which tells them so and they also have evidence which tells them who is responsible for causing that trouble.

Where I think you and Amaral have got it a wee bit askew is with regard to just about everything else.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....