Author Topic: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?  (Read 7111 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2017, 05:46:50 PM »
I think it is money well spent -  as even if Madeleine isn't found -  at least her parents know that everything that could be done has been done and don't have to spend the rest of their  lives wondering if some vital piece of evidence was missed because of an investigation disadvantaged by having no official protocol/procedures in place on how to deal with such cases.

If the investigations have resulted in greatly improved knowledge and/or new methods which can now be implemented which improve the chances of recovering a missing child -  then as a taxpayer that's fine by me.

£12m is peanuts in the scheme of things imo.    Just In London alone it costs taxpayers £100m per year to remove graffiti.

AIMHO

Obviously some piece of vital information was missed or the case would have been solved
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline barrier

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2017, 05:52:40 PM »
I think it is money well spent -  as even if Madeleine isn't found -  at least her parents know that everything that could be done has been done and don't have to spend the rest of their  lives wondering if some vital piece of evidence was missed because of an investigation disadvantaged by having no official protocol/procedures in place on how to deal with such cases.

If the investigations have resulted in greatly improved knowledge and/or new methods which can now be implemented which improve the chances of recovering a missing child -  then as a taxpayer that's fine by me.

£12m is peanuts in the scheme of things imo.    Just In London alone it costs taxpayers £100m per year to remove graffiti.

AIMHO

£100 million gets more space to apply graffiti again,£12 million police investigation into  a crime in  a foreign country where you have no jurisdiction brings what?
Those who find they're touched by madness
Sit down next to me.

Online Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Executive Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12623
  • Total likes: 1926
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • Help to solve the Madeleine McCann case
Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2017, 06:10:50 PM »
£100 million gets more space to apply graffiti again,£12 million police investigation into  a crime in  a foreign country where you have no jurisdiction brings what?
It must give all the parents in the country reassurance that if their child went missing the community will do sufficient to solve the case. 

Offline Davel

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2017, 06:15:33 PM »
Obviously some piece of vital information was missed or the case would have been solved
Opinion as fact...and total rubbish...imo
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Benice

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2017, 06:18:35 PM »
Obviously some piece of vital information was missed or the case would have been solved

But if information received during the PJ investigation wasn't adequately investigated then there would be no way of knowing what it might have led to.    If you know that to be the case then you would always wonder if something of real importance may have emerged if it had been followed up.

It may be that the case will not be solved, but IMO the £12m is justified by the fact that in future missing children will have a better chance of being found as a result of that expenditure.

IMO
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Online Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Executive Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12623
  • Total likes: 1926
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • Help to solve the Madeleine McCann case
Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2017, 06:26:13 PM »
Opinion as fact...and total rubbish...imo
"Obviously some piece of vital information was missed or the case would have been solved"
I thought about that one Davel and because Faithlilly had used the word "obviously" it becomes opinion full stop.  No different to "I think"  or "it appears to me" hence "obviously".
Of course it isn't rubbish because there might be many clues missed in this case.  I had previously done a study on the fingerprints on the shutters and no fingerprinting was done on the inside surface of the shutters.  I felt clues were missed there.  Others pointed out no fingerprinting was done on the front door.  The other issue I'd like to know was who was it that left the door key on the kitchen bench that Amaral talked about? Whose fingerprints were on the keys.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 06:39:17 PM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?
https://www.youcaring.com/madeleinemccann-1080869

Online G-Unit

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2017, 06:43:09 PM »
It must give all the parents in the country reassurance that if their child went missing the community will do sufficient to solve the case.

I don't think this case will have any effect on how other cases are approached.

Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Online Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Executive Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12623
  • Total likes: 1926
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • Help to solve the Madeleine McCann case
Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2017, 06:48:48 PM »
I don't think this case will have any effect on how other cases are approached.
Well why think that?  The lesson I've heard several of the police and PIs say was to do with "clearing the ground beneath your feet", implying the importance of checking out the parents and the immediate group of acquaintances first.  Maybe that is the lesson.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 07:13:17 PM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?
https://www.youcaring.com/madeleinemccann-1080869

Online Brietta

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2017, 06:57:05 PM »
I don't think this case will have any effect on how other cases are approached.
I think you are wrong on that.  I think the Portuguese will never again conduct a missing child investigation in the manner Madeleine's was.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Executive Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12623
  • Total likes: 1926
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • Help to solve the Madeleine McCann case
Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2017, 07:06:21 PM »
I think you are wrong on that.  I think the Portuguese will never again conduct a missing child investigation in the manner Madeleine's was.
They began putting up roadblocks and alerted ports.  Quite a response. 
Ponta negra  could be Rocha Negra (Black Rock). 

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2017, 07:16:32 PM »
I think you are wrong on that.  I think the Portuguese will never again conduct a missing child investigation in the manner Madeleine's was.

I would sincerely hope not.
Probably for different reasons from you.
It's okay to reinvent the wheel, but only when you understand how the current wheel works.

Offline Benice

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2017, 07:34:12 PM »
I don't think this case will have any effect on how other cases are approached.

Surely it should make a difference in Portugal G.     For instance AFAIK it was the GNR who decided when to contact the PJ when a child was reported as missing.    IMO any report of a missing child should immediately be conveyed to the PJ detectives.     This would eliminate the recurrence of what happened to LC when - on approaching a GNR officer whilst searching for her daughter - was told to go home and if she hadn't turned up by morning to come into the police station.       I can't remember how long it was before the  PJ were informed by the GNR, but I believe it was quite a long time.

In the McCann case  I believe it was also some time before the PJ were informed.

Surely that is something that could and should be changed - as it affects the Golden Hour.

(The above is from memory - so am happy to be corrected if I've got it wrong)

Happy New Year btw.   (and to everyone)
 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Online Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Executive Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12623
  • Total likes: 1926
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • Help to solve the Madeleine McCann case
Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2017, 07:45:07 PM »
Surely it should make a difference in Portugal G.     For instance AFAIK it was the GNR who decided when to contact the PJ when a child was reported as missing.    IMO any report of a missing child should immediately be conveyed to the PJ detectives.     This would eliminate the recurrence of what happened to LC when - on approaching a GNR officer whilst searching for her daughter - was told to go home and if she hadn't turned up by morning to come into the police station.       I can't remember how long it was before the  PJ were informed by the GNR, but I believe it was quite a long time.

In the McCann case  I believe it was also some time before the PJ were informed.

Surely that is something that could and should be changed - as it affects the Golden Hour.

(The above is from memory - so am happy to be corrected if I've got it wrong)

Happy New Year btw.   (and to everyone)
 
I emphasise that because missing kids happen quite often, and I'm sure police resources would be stretched if they were to set up road blocks and lock down the parents house every time a child went missing. Interesting thought though if this was the standard approach.
What are you doing to find Madeleine?
https://www.youcaring.com/madeleinemccann-1080869

Online G-Unit

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2017, 08:16:36 PM »
Well why think that?  The lesson I've heard several of the police and PIs say was to do with "clearing the ground beneath your feet", implying the importance of checking out the parents and the immediate group of acquaintances first.  Maybe that is the lesson.

What we know is it wasn't done. What we don't know is why it wasn't done.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2017, 08:23:55 PM »
But if information received during the PJ investigation wasn't adequately investigated then there would be no way of knowing what it might have led to.    If you know that to be the case then you would always wonder if something of real importance may have emerged if it had been followed up.

It may be that the case will not be solved, but IMO the £12m is justified by the fact that in future missing children will have a better chance of being found as a result of that expenditure.

IMO

There is no way of knowing so the McCanns, unless the case is solved, will never know that every lead has been followed up.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson