Author Topic: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.  (Read 2684 times)

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Offline Eleanor

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2018, 02:15:05 PM »
A real stupid and dangerous situation develops if the person leaving has the key and double locks the door making it impossible for the person inside to let themselves out. Not so bad on the ground floor but when the balcony is several floors up they are stuck.

This can't happen.

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2018, 02:56:28 PM »
This can't happen.
That situation is mentioned in the PJ file so it must be able to happen.  I'll find it again but it takes time.
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2018, 03:06:37 PM »
A real stupid and dangerous situation develops if the person leaving has the key and double locks the door making it impossible for the person inside to let themselves out. Not so bad on the ground floor but when the balcony is several floors up they are stuck.
Eleanor says this can't happen but it was what the other families admit doing with their kids at night.  The children were locked in their apartments with the front door dead locked so the children could not open it from the inside.
This from Jane Tanner's rogatory "Reply    “Yes, yeah well we made, as I said we made sure that was because you could dead lock it as well and that was one of our concerns was Ella waking up and wandering, I mean like I say we didn’t think she would but that was probably our, you know so she couldn’t get out the actual apartment, that was err so we did make sure that was dead locked every night.”
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Offline John

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2018, 03:15:18 PM »
Eleanor says this can't happen but it was what the other families admit doing with their kids at night.  The children were locked in their apartments with the front door dead locked so the children could not open it from the inside.
This from Jane Tanner's rogatory "Reply    “Yes, yeah well we made, as I said we made sure that was because you could dead lock it as well and that was one of our concerns was Ella waking up and wandering, I mean like I say we didn’t think she would but that was probably our, you know so she couldn’t get out the actual apartment, that was err so we did make sure that was dead locked every night.”

Maybe Eleanor never uses the second lock or deadlock?  At OC, you have to turn the key twice to achieve deadlock.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Offline Eleanor

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2018, 03:17:43 PM »
That situation is mentioned in the PJ file so it must be able to happen.  I'll find it again but it takes time.

Don't bother.  It can't happen.  Do you seriously think that someone could be locked inside a house and unable to get out without a key?

I have one such lock in my house next door, but it has been disabled entirely.  And since it is pissing down I can't be bothered to go and look.

No spring lock in existence is ever going to trap anyone inside a house.  This would be against all safety regulations.

Offline Eleanor

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2018, 03:21:11 PM »
Eleanor says this can't happen but it was what the other families admit doing with their kids at night.  The children were locked in their apartments with the front door dead locked so the children could not open it from the inside.
This from Jane Tanner's rogatory "Reply    “Yes, yeah well we made, as I said we made sure that was because you could dead lock it as well and that was one of our concerns was Ella waking up and wandering, I mean like I say we didn’t think she would but that was probably our, you know so she couldn’t get out the actual apartment, that was err so we did make sure that was dead locked every night.”

Dead Locks on these locks can be opened from inside.  Anyone who thinks otherwise has lost their marbles.

Until recently i was dealing with a Holiday Let that had the self same lock.  I could get out but no one could get in.

Offline Eleanor

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2018, 03:24:20 PM »
Maybe Eleanor never uses the second lock or deadlock?  At OC, you have to turn the key twice to achieve deadlock.

I used such locks on a Holiday Let for years and years.  And I was hardly going to leave the house even remotely vulnerable when it was empty.

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2018, 03:26:43 PM »
Dead Locks on these locks can be opened from inside.  Anyone who thinks otherwise has lost their marbles.

Until recently i was dealing with a Holiday Let that had the self same lock.  I could get out but no one could get in.
Well it was quoted that previous tenant who wanted to keep the cleaners out but couldn't.  even when they deadlocked the door from the inside. 
"We noticed that the cleaning personnel entered the apartment after one knock and did not give us time to respond. This was a bit bothersome and for this reason we would lock the door, and would leave the key in the inside lock.

After this precaution, the next day, the same thing happened and the cleaning woman entered even though the door was locked with the key in the lock.

We never found out how it was possible for a cleaning woman to enter after we had tried to prevent it. " http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLO-D_AMBROSIO.htm


OK admittedly they don't specifically say it was deadlocked but I think that was the intention.
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2018, 03:30:26 PM »
I used such locks on a Holiday Let for years and years.  And I was hardly going to leave the house even remotely vulnerable when it was empty.
How was a deadlock going to help you if it can be opened from the inside?  Why did you feel more secure?
What are you doing to find Madeleine?
https://www.youcaring.com/madeleinemccann-1080869

Offline John

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2018, 03:31:37 PM »
I used such locks on a Holiday Let for years and years.  And I was hardly going to leave the house even remotely vulnerable when it was empty.

That's a very good point Eleanor.  That finger-pull lever on the internal door mechanism must be the failsafe.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Eleanor

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 03:38:57 PM »
Well it was quoted that previous tenant who wanted to keep the cleaners out but couldn't.  even when they deadlocked the door from the inside. 
"We noticed that the cleaning personnel entered the apartment after one knock and did not give us time to respond. This was a bit bothersome and for this reason we would lock the door, and would leave the key in the inside lock.

After this precaution, the next day, the same thing happened and the cleaning woman entered even though the door was locked with the key in the lock.

We never found out how it was possible for a cleaning woman to enter after we had tried to prevent it. " http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLO-D_AMBROSIO.htm


OK admittedly they don't specifically say it was deadlocked but I think that was the intention.

The Cleaner Had a Key.  That is the be all and end all.

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2018, 03:41:34 PM »
That's a very good point Eleanor.  That finger-pull lever on the internal door mechanism must open it regardless of the deadlock I assume.
No in the locks at PdL I believe the pull lever only activated the the latch bolt and the key activated the deadlock bolt.
The purpose of a key operated deadbolt is to stop burglars exiting via the deadlocked doors, so they fail in their purpose if they can be unlocked without a key.

"Some people do lock the deadbolt when they’re at home but this is not advised because if there’s an emergency you can’t get out of the property quickly. If you do want to lock a deadbolt, you should have a key in the back of the deadbolt to give you an easy exit.

A common mistake people make with deadbolts is to leave a key in the back of the lock when they leave the property and then key-locking the deadbolt from the outside. If someone breaks in to the property through another door or window they can easily unlock the deadbolt and exit the property with all your belongings." https://www.realestate.com.au/advice/deadlatch-deadbolt-whats-difference/
What are you doing to find Madeleine?
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2018, 03:44:42 PM »
The Cleaner Had a Key.  That is the be all and end all.
Then you are confusing me for why did you say "Dead Locks on these locks can be opened from inside.  Anyone who thinks otherwise has lost their marbles.

Until recently i was dealing with a Holiday Let that had the self same lock.  I could get out but no one could get in."
Are you now saying they could get in if they had a key?
What are you doing to find Madeleine?
https://www.youcaring.com/madeleinemccann-1080869

Offline Eleanor

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2018, 03:53:57 PM »
How was a deadlock going to help you if it can be opened from the inside?  Why did you feel more secure?

I was trying to keep people out, not keeping people in.  And I was going away leaving the property of someone else secure in my absence and when it was empty.
 
As it happens, most holiday makers failed to dead lock the doors when they left.  They just pulled them to on the spring lock.  I had to go around dead locking them.  This wasn't a problem.  I told you, Brits don't understand these locks.  I do.

Whether or not a four year old could open a spring lock or a dead lock is a matter for debate.  There is nothing wrong with the locks themselves.  They are relatively easy to open from the inside without a key.

Offline Eleanor

Re: When was the door shut? David Payne. Rules out wandering off.
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2018, 03:56:24 PM »
That's a very good point Eleanor.  That finger-pull lever on the internal door mechanism must be the failsafe.

It is, from outside.  From inside you just pull it.  Could a four year old do that?