Author Topic: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?  (Read 101650 times)

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Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #390 on: January 24, 2017, 10:04:17 PM »
Now it's not 'the group' it's just the McCanns. I hope you don't play football, you'll never find the goalposts. Does he notice one person seems to stay in most nights? Does he wonder what they're doing, if they are checking the kids? There's a group here, you can't ignore what the others are doing if there's a chance they will appear behind you.

So he's strolling past 5A before 10pm and decides to pop in on the off chance that there are children alone in there? Rubbish! The sex attacks you are referring to were much later when all were sleeping.
I'm sorry but it WAS the McCanns' child that was abducted, wasn't it?  Surely it is relevant as it was their child that was taken what pattern THEIR evenings took as opposed to anyone else's, if not perhaps you could explain why not?  As for your second argument, I find it rather droll that you think it's somehow more understandable that an abductor would strike when parents are on the premises asleep, than when they are dining 50 metres away.  Haven't you spent the last 10 years lambasting the parents for leaving the kids alone when "anything" could have happened and telling us how much safer they would have been if their parents had remained under the same roof as them all night?

Offline John

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #391 on: January 24, 2017, 10:26:54 PM »
Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her bedroom, her parents were present in the house at the time, her sister present in the same room.  Apparently this means her abduction was neither plausible, nor logical, yet it happened.   Go figure.

And it was witnessed too which rendered it a true abduction from the off.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #392 on: January 24, 2017, 10:29:29 PM »
And it was witnessed too which rendered it a true abduction from the off.
you do know that some McCann sceptics also think Smart's own father was involved in her abduction don't you?

Offline John

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #393 on: January 24, 2017, 10:36:53 PM »
you do know that some McCann sceptics also think Smart's own father was involved in her abduction don't you?

Yet again this abductor turned out to be a close family trusted friend.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #394 on: January 24, 2017, 10:45:40 PM »
Yet again this abductor turned out to be a close family trusted friend.
I think you've got that wrong John.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #395 on: January 25, 2017, 07:26:43 AM »
I think you've got that wrong John.

The abductor simply worked for the family for a short while, doing odd jobs.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #396 on: January 25, 2017, 09:01:57 AM »
There is always a possibility of discovery when you enter a home to commit a criminal act, it's a known risk which can be minimised but not completely prevented, I can refer you to any number of cases of burglars or would-be abductors caught in the act by home-owners or parents.  The known risk does not act as a deterrent in all cases, if it did there would never be a burglary or abduction when homeowners or parents were in the near vicinity.
Can I ask you - if you went out to dinner at your neighbours and left the side door unlocked whilst you were out would you think it implausible and illogical if you came home and discovered some of your valuables had been stolen?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 09:24:09 PM by John »

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #397 on: January 25, 2017, 10:13:59 AM »
For an abduction to have taken place the paths of the child and the abductor must have crossed.
Therefore the child exited the apartment or the abductor gained entrance to the apartment. All within the constraints of he case evidence.
30 pages plus and we haven't progreesed very far have we?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #398 on: January 25, 2017, 10:24:43 AM »
its quite a stupid question.....the sample was poor and could not confirm or discount the presence of maddie's DNA in the vehicle...so it tells us nothing

Not a stupid question at all.

Your mate ferryman says it discounts Madeleine.

Would you  care to correct him. 8((()*/

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #399 on: January 25, 2017, 10:35:28 AM »
Given that we've reached that stage in the thread where we have to resort to repeating ourselves:

The door to the apartment was unlocked - known fact.
Therefore the apartment was not secure - known fact.
An abductor could gain access to the apartment without breaking and entering.
That's how it was possible.

And before I'm sniffily informed that I have not provided evidence of an abductor, well if you ask for a plausible, logical theory of abduction an abductor is somewhat of a pre-requisite to the theory. 

So - a (theoretical) abductor (identity unknown) entered the unlocked apartment when he or she considered the risk of discovery to be at its lowest point during a window of opportunity (as confirmed as existing by the Met) and removed the child, for reasons unknown.  During the (theroretical) abduction the (theoretical) abductor opened the window to the children's bedroom for reasons unknown.  The (theoretical) abductor and Madeleine disappear into the night by means unknown, never to be seen again. 

It's a theory short on detail and we can make up stuff to fill the gaps, but that's the bare bones of it.  Plausible.  Logical IMO. 

Cue the chorus of indignation and cries of "it's totally illogical!!"

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #400 on: January 25, 2017, 11:48:49 AM »
Parents using a service offered by a hotel or holiday complex can justify their decision by pointing out that it is part of the service, so those offering it are recommending it as acceptable.

Parents creating their own ad hoc listening service in a resort where it's NOT PROVIDED BECAUSE THE RESORT ISN'T SUITABLE cannot justify their decision in that way.

Two different things, no matter how much you attempt to pretend they're the same. Even Kate McCann's mother struggled to understand what they were thinking;

 “I can read articles that say Kate and Gerry should never have left their children and I can accept that. You find yourself over and over again in your head thinking: ‘Why did they think it would be all right?’

“Why did they think – ALL of them – it was OK to do this?
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/madeleine-mccanns-grandparents-ask-leave-3490016
So, what was it about the OC resort that meant the dangers to children left alone were far greater than in those resorts in which a listening service is offered?  Presumably the dangers WITHIN the apartment were not far greater than those in other places with a listening service, so what was it in particular that made the OC unsuitable?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #401 on: January 25, 2017, 12:52:03 PM »
Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her bedroom, her parents were present in the house at the time, her sister present in the same room.  Apparently this means her abduction was neither plausible, nor logical, yet it happened.   Go figure.

Elizabeth Smart's kidnapper was known to her family and had worked for them. He would have known the layout of the house.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #402 on: January 25, 2017, 01:06:04 PM »
Elizabeth Smart's kidnapper was known to her family and had worked for them. He would have known the layout of the house.
Really?

"He worked at the Smarts' home for five hours, helping on the roof and raking leaves".

So what?  How much detailed knowledge of a house you are about to illegally enter do you need to know, especially a small apartment on the ground floor?

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #403 on: January 25, 2017, 01:44:11 PM »
Given that we've reached that stage in the thread where we have to resort to repeating ourselves:

The door to the apartment was unlocked - known fact.
Therefore the apartment was not secure - known fact.
An abductor could gain access to the apartment without breaking and entering.
That's how it was possible.

And before I'm sniffily informed that I have not provided evidence of an abductor, well if you ask for a plausible, logical theory of abduction an abductor is somewhat of a pre-requisite to the theory. 

So - a (theoretical) abductor (identity unknown) entered the unlocked apartment when he or she considered the risk of discovery to be at its lowest point during a window of opportunity (as confirmed as existing by the Met) and removed the child, for reasons unknown.  During the (theroretical) abduction the (theoretical) abductor opened the window to the children's bedroom for reasons unknown.  The (theoretical) abductor and Madeleine disappear into the night by means unknown, never to be seen again. 

It's a theory short on detail and we can make up stuff to fill the gaps, but that's the bare bones of it.  Plausible.  Logical IMO. 

Cue the chorus of indignation and cries of "it's totally illogical!!"

Whether the patio door was open or closed is open to debate. One statement implies it was locked another says it was not. Therefore the security status of the apartment is unknown.
Which do you wish to believe and why?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 01:48:56 PM by Alice Purjorick »
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #404 on: January 25, 2017, 07:11:20 PM »
Did I? Or did I say no-one has managed to come up with a plausible and logical theory of who, how and when one particular 'abduction' happened?
Of course no one can say WHO conducted the abduction, that goes without saying, but I have told you my theory for how and when, and it is both plausible and logical.  If you disagree then perhaps you can tell me what it is that makes it both implausible and illogical.