Author Topic: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?  (Read 13591 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2018, 11:23:35 PM »
Mrs Martin made two statements; one in June and the other in November, Two different interpreters were used and in both statements she says the same;

the mother told her that she did not understand why a couple had abducted her daughter.

the mother, Kate, questioned what she was doing asking these questions which should be asked by the police, who were already on the scene in large numbers searching for her daughter, who had been taken by a couple.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm
Sounds like she got hold of the wrong end of the stick to me.  No one else who spoke to Kate over that period mentions Kate talking about a couple, why would she mention it solely to Yvonne Martin (a woman whose nose she’d apparently put out of joint incidentally).
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2018, 07:03:15 AM »
Sounds like she got hold of the wrong end of the stick to me.  No one else who spoke to Kate over that period mentions Kate talking about a couple, why would she mention it solely to Yvonne Martin (a woman whose nose she’d apparently put out of joint incidentally).

I find her evidence interesting because she was English and she was an experienced social worker who was used to weighing people up. She went to PdL to offer help but ended up wondering if they were involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

She first found them aggressive and their reaction after she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, also seemed strange to her.....

Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home.
 http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2018, 07:23:36 AM »
I find her evidence interesting because she was English and she was an experienced social worker who was used to weighing people up. She went to PdL to offer help but ended up wondering if they were involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

She first found them aggressive and their reaction after she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, also seemed strange to her.....

Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home.
 http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm
You have now moved the discussion on from the “couple” question.  IMO YM lacks the ability to perceive how her actions may have come across to a couple in their situation.  Was she used to dealing with parents whose child had disappeared without trace?  Coming on like some interfering busy body member of the public asking personal questions of a couple who had every right to be confused, suspicious and upset, it’s not IMO massively surprising if she got the cold shoulder, but you and she are claiming that it was only to her that Kate confided her fear that a couple had taken Madeleine?  Seems highly implausible to me.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 07:30:08 AM by Vertigo Swirl »
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2018, 08:30:33 AM »
You have now moved the discussion on from the “couple” question.  IMO YM lacks the ability to perceive how her actions may have come across to a couple in their situation.  Was she used to dealing with parents whose child had disappeared without trace?  Coming on like some interfering busy body member of the public asking personal questions of a couple who had every right to be confused, suspicious and upset, it’s not IMO massively surprising if she got the cold shoulder, but you and she are claiming that it was only to her that Kate confided her fear that a couple had taken Madeleine?  Seems highly implausible to me.

Mrs Martin worked in child protection, which can involve familial child abduction and children being taken into care.  Both involve dealing with the bereft mother in the aftermath, so she was not walking into an situation which was beyond her experience and capabilities imo.

I can't understand why an offer of help from someone with her qualifications would be rejected by people who were desperately in need of help, information and comfort.

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Online Eleanor

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2018, 08:47:35 AM »
Mrs Martin worked in child protection, which can involve familial child abduction and children being taken into care.  Both involve dealing with the bereft mother in the aftermath, so she was not walking into an situation which was beyond her experience and capabilities imo.

I can't understand why an offer of help from someone with her qualifications would be rejected by people who were desperately in need of help, information and comfort.

She tried to separate Kate from her friends, and was asking questions that were not in her remit.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2018, 08:48:35 AM »
Mrs Martin worked in child protection, which can involve familial child abduction and children being taken into care.  Both involve dealing with the bereft mother in the aftermath, so she was not walking into an situation which was beyond her experience and capabilities imo.

I can't understand why an offer of help from someone with her qualifications would be rejected by people who were desperately in need of help, information and comfort.
Can you supply a cite for YM wondering if the parents were involved in Madeleine’s disappearance?  Once again you have dodged the point I was making re: the belief you and YM seem to share regarding this seemingly vital piece of information about a couple being divulged solely to a woman who was clearly pissing them off big time.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2018, 09:06:57 AM »
Mrs Martin worked in child protection, which can involve familial child abduction and children being taken into care.  Both involve dealing with the bereft mother in the aftermath, so she was not walking into an situation which was beyond her experience and capabilities imo.

I can't understand why an offer of help from someone with her qualifications would be rejected by people who were desperately in need of help, information and comfort.
I can see exactly why a person whose role was concerned with familial abductions and taking children into care was not welcome by Kate... It's blindingly obvious to me.
As far as Kate was concerned this was a, stranger abduction and an interfering social worker had no business interfering

Offline Brietta

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2018, 09:10:49 AM »
Mrs Martin worked in child protection, which can involve familial child abduction and children being taken into care.  Both involve dealing with the bereft mother in the aftermath, so she was not walking into an situation which was beyond her experience and capabilities imo.

I can't understand why an offer of help from someone with her qualifications would be rejected by people who were desperately in need of help, information and comfort.

If her interest was in safeguarding children ... why did she not indicate her concerns by asking one single question about the welfare of the missing child's siblings and the other children in the holiday group?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #53 on: November 08, 2018, 09:17:38 AM »
I can see exactly why a person whose role was concerned with familial abductions and taking children into care was not welcome by Kate... It's blindingly obvious to me.
As far as Kate was concerned this was a, stranger abduction and an interfering social worker had no business interfering

In my opinion managing to upset an already distraught mother even more than she already was by the attempt to isolate her from her support group was questionable practice.

She was an individual who had literally walked in off the street and a stranger to all concerned ... including the police officers on duty.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2018, 09:55:57 AM »
Can you supply a cite for YM wondering if the parents were involved in Madeleine’s disappearance?  Once again you have dodged the point I was making re: the belief you and YM seem to share regarding this seemingly vital piece of information about a couple being divulged solely to a woman who was clearly pissing them off big time.

I have provided cites to her evidence where you can read her conclusions for yourself.How do you know that Kate mentioned a 'couple' only to Mrs Martin? Maybe she was just the only one who reported it.

She certainly did meet with resistance for some reason. When contacted by Sol at the end of June David Payne has the same attitude; “This is our matter only. It is nobody else’s business” (https://joanamorais.blogspot.com/2008/03/madeleine-case-pact-of-silence.html)
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2018, 10:01:29 AM »
I can see exactly why a person whose role was concerned with familial abductions and taking children into care was not welcome by Kate... It's blindingly obvious to me.
As far as Kate was concerned this was a, stranger abduction and an interfering social worker had no business interfering

Given their neglectful behaviour I'm not at all surprised that they didn't want to speak to a British Social Worker.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2018, 10:06:49 AM »
Given their neglectful behaviour I'm not at all surprised that they didn't want to speak to a British Social Worker.

Then why did you post the following..



I can't understand why an offer of help from someone with her qualifications would be rejected by people who were desperately in need of help, information and comfort.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2018, 10:15:04 AM »
Then why did you post the following..



I can't understand why an offer of help from someone with her qualifications would be rejected by people who were desperately in need of help, information and comfort.

That would be the logical response of distraught parents in need of help in a foreign land. Rejecting her help was illogical in my opinion, so I wondered if they were (quite rightly) feeling sensitive about their childcare arrangements. They would have known that a social worker wouldn't approve.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2018, 10:37:10 AM »
That would be the logical response of distraught parents in need of help in a foreign land. Rejecting her help was illogical in my opinion, so I wondered if they were (quite rightly) feeling sensitive about their childcare arrangements. They would have known that a social worker wouldn't approve.

so it was quite logical of them to reject her help...iyo....you seem to be contradicting yourself

Online Eleanor

Re: Was the Liverpudlian dialect the source of some confusion?
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2018, 10:44:01 AM »

Didn't everyone just love the Anonymous Letter.  Very Professional, was it?