Author Topic: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?  (Read 7387 times)

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Offline Admin

With all these comings and goings from early on in the evening, parents going to check on the children, casual chats in the street, parents relieving parents in order that they get their dinner, locals coming and going and tourists walking by with their babes in arms, how come Jane Tanner was the only one who saw anything?

Jane saw bundleman, now known as Mr Innocent Tourist, yet seemingly he never saw her in what was perceived by her to be his haste to depart the scene.

How was it even possible to stage an abduction in such a throng of activity?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:56:20 PM by Admin »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2013, 11:20:40 AM »
How didn't Gerry and Jeremy Wilkins not see Jane Tanner when she said she saw and passed them before witnessing bundleman at 9.15pm?
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

icabodcrane

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Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2013, 01:00:14 PM »
How didn't Gerry and Jeremy Wilkins not see Jane Tanner when she said she saw and passed them before witnessing bundleman at 9.15pm?

No reasonable answer has ever been given to that question pathfinder

And now there's another to add to it  ...   how could the innocent father carrying his child across the road fail to notice the three people standing in the street  ?

Perhaps he did though  ...  perhaps that is why Scotland Yard are convinced that it was him Jane Tanner saw at that moment, ,  and not an abductor

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2013, 01:13:57 PM »
Thanks. Did Jeremy Wilkins ever say a time that he thought it was when he was speaking to Gerry?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 01:18:18 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2013, 01:17:26 PM »
Thanks. Did Jeremy Wilkins ever say a time that he thought it was when he speaking to Gerry?

I seem to remember he wasn't certain and thought it could have been anytime between 8.45pm and 9.15pm.

ETA From Jez Wilkins rogatory statement :

'Q. Relative to the time I met Gerry McCann on the Thursday night of May 3, 2007;
As stated in my original deposition, I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. I am aware of the importance of this hour and am also aware that the media announced our meeting time as 21h05. Even if this were correct, I have no idea from where such information originated. It is not possible to give you a more exact time. '
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 01:20:52 PM by Faithlilly »
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Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2013, 01:21:06 PM »
Thanks. How far away from the McCann's was he staying? Did he talk to Gerry just before he arrived back? He said he got back had dinner watched a dvd and went to bed at 11pm.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2013, 02:02:40 PM »
Good point. Someone from the group was coming and going to the apartments nearly every 15 mins and they weren't that far away to hear something. Very risky even with watchers and a quick getaway vehicle.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2013, 02:12:13 PM »
And if this organised gang of paedophiles child abduction experts, were so organised they can leave no trace in the apartment & their prized prey which they seek is sleeping next to 2 smaller & equally vulnerable prey,
Why would they only steal one?
Was Madeleine really that special?
What were these endearing qualities Madeleine had, that her siblings did not?
 
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline patb

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2013, 02:18:08 PM »
If you want to abduct a kid, and you are a gang, would not an isolated house in the middle of the night be a better option? incapacitate the parents, drive off, you have hours to get away with fewer witnesses, no neighbours, fewer variables etc etc. Also, you would choose a family with a single kid, having other kids present (and in the same bedroom!) just adds to the risk. Plus, knowing they were part of a group increases the risk in terms of group members popping in and keeping tabs on where they all are . Better to pick a family who are on their own. Its just not an obvious set of circumstances. Back to the concept of what is reasonble to beleive and what is beyond credulity



.... minor edit to fit with new thread ...
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 03:12:07 PM by Admin »

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2013, 02:20:53 PM »
Thanks. How far away from the McCann's was he staying? Did he talk to Gerry just before he arrived back? He said he got back had dinner watched a dvd and went to bed at 11pm.

His apartment was roughly 50m from the McCanns, I think.
I'm pretty sure I read that at mccannfiles.
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2013, 02:21:24 PM »
And if this organised gang of paedophiles child abduction experts, were so organised they can leave no trace in the apartment & their prized prey which they seek is sleeping next to 2 smaller & equally vulnerable prey,
Why would they only steal one?
Was Madeleine really that special?
What were these endearing qualities Madeleine had, that her siblings did not?
Madeleine was only special for her parents, family and friends.
She was cute as most little girls of that age on the planet.
There was no reason to steal her, only problems, emotional ones.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2013, 02:32:31 PM »
If you want to abduct a kid, and you are a gang, would not an isolated house in the middle of the night be a better option? incapacitate the parents, drive off, you have hours to get away with fewer witnesses, no neighbours, fewer variables etc etc. Also, you would choose a family with a single kid, having other kids present (and in the same bedroom!) just adds to the risk. Plus, knowing they were part of a group increases the risk in terms of group members popping in and keeping tabs on where they all are . Better to pick a family who are on their own. Its just not an obvious set of circumstances. Back to the concept of what is reasonble to beleive and what is beyond credulity

If I was in an 'organised nonce abduction gang' & wanted to grab a kid, I don't think I'd go to the lengths that are suggested in the possible abduction scenario.
Much easier to get a few untraceable vehicles, overalls, balaclava ,hang around near a play park, grab a kid bundle it into the van, race away, switch vehicles at a pre aranged location, torch the van, switch vehicles again. Job done.

In essence I don't think it's reasonable to think Madeleine was abducted.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 03:12:45 PM by Admin »
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2013, 02:52:20 PM »
Good point. Someone from the group was coming and going to the apartments nearly every 15 mins and they weren't that far away to hear something. Very risky even with watchers and a quick getaway vehicle.

Actually,  the to'ing and fro'ing to the apartments was more frequent than that

9.00pm  Mathew Oldfield is in around the apartments checking
9.05pm  Gerry McCann
9.15pm  Jane Tanner
9.25pm  Russell O'Brien and Mathew Oldfield   (  Russell stays in his apartment )
9.40pm  Jane Tanner
9.45pm  Russell O Brien  ( returning from his apartment )
10.00pm  Kate McCann

This was an apartment that was patrolled very, very frequently,  and with no obvious  methodology being employed  ...  Gerry checking just 5 minutes after Mathew had done so,  for instance,  and Russell checking just 10 minutes after  his partner Jane had   

Is it  'likely'  therefore that an abductor would select it as the one to take a child from  ?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:56:57 PM by icabodcrane »

Offline jassi

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2013, 02:57:51 PM »
Actually,  the to'ing and fro'ing to the apartments was more frequent than that

9.00pm  Mathew Oldfield is in around the apartments checking
9.05pm  Gerry McCann
9.15pm  Jane Tanner
9.25pm  Russell O'Brien and Mathew Oldfield   (  Russell stays in his apartment )
9.40pm  Jane Tanner
9.45pm  Russell O Brien  ( returning from his apartment )
10.00pm  Kate McCann

This was an apartment that was patrolled very, very frequently,  and with no obvious  methodology being employed  ...  Gerry checking just 5 minutes after Mathew had done so,  for instance,  and Russell checking just 10 minutes after his partner Jane had

Is it  'likely'  therefore that an abductor would select it as one to take a child from  ?

Assuming that the checks were made as stated, the window of opportunity just gets smaller and smaller and to me, the smaller it is, the less likely that it ever happened.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 03:08:31 PM by Admin »
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Offline Admin

Re: Ocean Club G was busier than Piccadilly so how come nobody saw anything?
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2013, 02:58:13 PM »
A new thread.  Given the number of people who were walking in the vicinity of Ocean Club Garden or G Block on the night that Madeleine disappeared, how was it even possible to stage an abduction?