Author Topic: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.  (Read 72196 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #255 on: August 05, 2023, 12:01:19 AM »
You really think the tabloids are to blame for the trial verdict? SO much was unreported, like LM piqueing Jodi on the leg with his knife at a party a few weeks before. Normal behaviour for most 14 year olds in your eyes. They had only been "dating" for a few months and he was still in regular contact with KT plus KVN from the cadets, and at the same time had told friends about how he wanted to slit someone's throat, all the time using huge amounts of cannabis.

I think the tabloids certainly played their part. The reason the above events weren’t reported from court is because they weren’t said in court. Why? Probably because under oath you have to tell the truth.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #256 on: August 05, 2023, 12:10:12 AM »
I think the tabloids certainly played their part. The reason the above events weren’t reported from court is because they weren’t said in court. Why? Probably because under oath you have to tell the truth.

In reality - the media did not report on the evidence of many of the witnesses who gave evidence during the trial

For example, do you know who the other lad was who was with killer Luke Mitchell that evening?

There was David High, David Tulloch and who else?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline KenMair

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #257 on: August 05, 2023, 12:15:02 AM »
Probably because under oath you have to tell the truth.

I agree. The only person that told the truth in court was dope smoking wine drinking drunk driving Corinne. Everyone else was lying, even Shane. It's obvious Luke's tattie mashing was exemplary and he would have gone on to be a master chip fryer if wasn't for those pesky tabloids and Donald Findlay's masonic plot.

Offline Parky41

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #258 on: August 05, 2023, 03:17:29 PM »
I think the tabloids certainly played their part. The reason the above events weren’t reported from court is because they weren’t said in court. Why? Probably because under oath you have to tell the truth.

The fluent liar strikes again. - Jabbing the girl in a leg with a knife, KT and fantasizing about the best way to kill someone, certainly were heard at trial.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #259 on: August 05, 2023, 04:58:57 PM »
The fluent liar strikes again. - Jabbing the girl in a leg with a knife, KT and fantasizing about the best way to kill someone, certainly were heard at trial.

Others may gobble up your nonsense Parky. I find it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Are you talking about this little piece of trickery?

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/I+WATCHED+MITCHELL+TORMENT+JODI+WITH+HIS+BLADE.-a0127488534

“Witness’….to the alleged incident, not in court. “The girl was put on the witness list for Mitchell’s trial’ but wasn’t called due to credibility issues. I’ll bet there was.

KT certainly gave evidence but of what….a holiday romance with her, that he hadn’t seen her since he started dating Jodi and she was a tad peeved that she’d been lied to. She certainly didn’t claim that she thought that he had a violent side.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 05:53:00 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline KenMair

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #260 on: August 05, 2023, 08:44:11 PM »

Are you talking about this little piece of trickery?

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/I+WATCHED+MITCHELL+TORMENT+JODI+WITH+HIS+BLADE.-a0127488534


Only you could question someone's credibility by using an article that reports 3 separate girls being threatened by LM with a knife, without irony on your part. But then you believe unknown/unnamed witnesses that were never called to court as central to your argument. That's some credibility issue.

LM spoke to KT for hours on the Saturday making plans for visiting her in July after he had sent Jodi home in a taxi at 10pm. Probably just a holiday romance though.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #261 on: August 05, 2023, 10:12:17 PM »
Only you could question someone's credibility by using an article that reports 3 separate girls being threatened by LM with a knife, without irony on your part. But then you believe unknown/unnamed witnesses that were never called to court as central to your argument. That's some credibility issue.

LM spoke to KT for hours on the Saturday making plans for visiting her in July after he had sent Jodi home in a taxi at 10pm. Probably just a holiday romance though.

Imagine the dynamic effect of these ‘witness’s’ testimony on the course of the trial. Being able to have witnesses on the stand who had experienced Luke wielding a knife in a violent manner would be manna from heaven for the prosecution and yet they weren’t called to give evidence. Strange that.

You do seem to get a little angry that I’m rather less gullible than you. Odd that too.

The visit to Kenmore had been cancelled. Kimberley said so in her witness testimony so how they could be making plans heaven alone knows. Why do you equate two timing when you’re a child with being capable of murder?  Please explain that to me? Perhaps the visit was cancelled due to Luke’s waining interest in Kimberley? Perhaps that’s what the long phonecall that the pair had on the Saturday night was about?  Who knows but it certainly doesn’t seem relevant and it reveals the paucity of your argument that you think that it is.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 10:18:17 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Apples

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #262 on: August 05, 2023, 11:05:14 PM »
Purely for the sake of argument, let us assume that Luke was cheating on her.  Why would she be happy to meet him?  Why wouldn't she go find some other people to hang out with?  Beyond that, his cheating might conceivably be a motive for her to kill him, but not vice versa.  The circumstantial case against Luke Mitchell, especially the portions of it which involve eyewitnesses, is a hot, sticky mess.

I think the motivation for her wanting to meet him, despite their earlier tiff in school, was to preserve their relationship. Jodi diarised her feelings for LM, writing that he was her 'first true love', that 'she might actually be in love with him', that 'when she wasn't with him, she wanted to be, and when she was with him, she was happy' and that 'she would die if he finished with her' (this is all in the public domain). So, quite clearly, she really liked him and had deep feelings for him. I'd suggest she was very keen to get their earlier dispute resolved, and being allowed out earlier than she normally would have -- due to her curfew being lifted unexpectedly by her mother Judith -- well, she would naturally have been delighted. Like I said in my previous post, her curfew being lifted by her mother no doubt gave her some positivity and likely altered & improved her mood. And with an improved mood, there would have been optimism -- optimism that whatever was bothering her earlier concerning LM, could be resolved. (I should also note that it is entirely possible that Jodi had already shaken off what was bothering her earlier in school before her curfew was lifted. Teenagers are fickle and more often than not overcome their problems quickly. Also, her being at home with her close, loving family, listening to music while homemade lasagne is cooking away in the background, likely gave her comfort and lifted her mood; the simple yet meaningful things in life.)

As regards the eyewitness testimonies, I think anyone reading them with objectivity and sense would infer it was LM they saw: AB was taken aback by how much one of the pictures she saw looked like LM. She was 'as sure as she could be' that it was LM in that book of photographs shown to her by the police. In court, contrary to what a lot of people say, she didn't not identify him -- she said 'she didn't know'. BIG difference. She was simply being honest. LM in the dock in late 2004 looked completely different to the LM she saw with that girl (who the Jury accepted, from AB's description and testimony, could be identified as Jodi) on June 2003 wearing that olive green parka jacket (he had much longer hair, was wearing completely different clothes and was fuller about the face, owing to puberty and development). AB probably knew, deep down, that it was LM in the dock, but chose to do the right thing and tell the truth -- like she had done throughout the entire investigation. Nothing messy about her testimony, imo. LF & RW made it clear they thought it was him from the off, with one of them even exclaiming, upon seeing his picture in a newspaper for the first time, "Oh my god, it's him!". Unequivocal. They both identified him in the dock, too, despite DF's badgering. These 2 women described his parka jacket and jeans quite accurately despite seeing him when they were driving by in a car on 30.06.03 at 1740/1745. They, like CH, MO & DH, were drawn to how suspicious he was looking (they all said he looked suspicious and was acting strangely; said he was avoiding eye contact and generally acting in an odd manner). Carol Heatlie, seeing him at 1810 on 30.06.03 on NB road in the shiny bomber jacket and black baggy jeans, said that her sighting was 'very very similar' to the young man she had seen on the Sky News interview on September '03. The 3 push bike boys, who knew LM personally, saw him on NB road at 1805 on 30.06.03 sitting on a wall at the end of his estate. They said he was wearing a green bomber jacket and baggy black jeans. They, too, identified him in court. MO & her partner DH, said they saw a suspicious looking youth on NB road at just after 1800 on 30.06.03 wearing a green bomber jacket and black jeans. In court, they said the person they saw that day wasn't the person in the dock. Let's face it, it was LM they saw, but he had changed so significantly between 30.06.03 and December 2004 that they thought it wasn't the same lad they had seen on 30.06.03. So, there you have it. Very robust circumstancial evidence from 9 separate eyewitnesses. Between them, we can establish confidently and beyond reasonable doubt, that LM was seen in a confrontation at Easthouses with Jodi at 1655, then seen 45 mins later, on NB road, acting suspiciously, without Jodi. (In between these sightings, a witness was cycling by rdp and heard strangling choking noises from behind the rdp wall that startled and frightened him.) From these 9 witnesses' testimonies, we can strongly infer that LM was wearing his (still) missing dull olive green parka jacket at 1740/1745, and then seen wearing a different jacket (he'd changed into a shiny green bomber jacket between 1745-1805) at 1805. LM was positively identified in court as the same person that was seen in both Easthouses and Newbattle rd, wearing 2 separate jackets (how cunning and crafty, eh). Both Easthouses and Newbattle are small settlements. No other person fitting Luke's description lived in these areas at the time. No other person matching LM's description came forward to eliminate themselves from the inquiry between 30.06.03 and November 2004. MK looked nothing like LM and was almost a foot taller. MK was seen in a different area altogether on the afternoon/evening of 30.06.03. MK's DNA was tested against all the samples from the original murder investigation -- nothing incriminating was found. MK -- and no one else on the planet -- was due to meet with Jodi on 30.06.03. LM was. And then there's all the other considerable circumstantial evidence used against LM. Overwhelming circumstantial evidence. A glacier of circumstantial evidence. Does anyone have a blowtorch?

Offline Chris_Halkides

"I know I'm not supposed to talk to you, but take a look at this"
« Reply #263 on: August 08, 2023, 03:08:09 AM »
Miss Walsh's memory was contaminated by seeing the photo in the paper (similar to at least one wrongful conviction I discussed in the Laughable eyewitness testimony thread, that of Thomas Sophonow).  Let me repeat something that I posted there:  "The recommendation is to conduct, before the lineup, an interview in which the witness is instructed to avoid attempting to identify the culprit on his or her own. If the witness has already done so and has encountered the suspect’s photo (e.g., on social media), thereby contaminating memory before the first official test, it is also important to document that fact."  Wixted, J. T., Wells, G. L., Loftus, E. F., & Garrett, B. L. (2021). Test a Witness’s Memory of a Suspect Only Once. Psychological Science in the Public Interest, 22(1_suppl), 1S-18S.  Gary Wells has over forty years of research work on the subject of eyewitness testimony.  Brandon Garrett wrote the first major retrospective on the causes of known wrongful convictions.

Ms. Walsh then deliberately disregarded what she had been told about not contacting Ms. Fleming ("take a look at this").  By showing her the newspaper, she contaminated Ms. Fleming's memory.  In addition, she spoke falsely about this incident, denying that she had shown the photo, completely cratering her credibility.  Ms. Fleming was incorrect in her memory of how she had first seen the photo, remembering that her partner had shown it, when he was out of town.  Donald Findlay's bringing this up was pointing out the truth; that is hardly badgering.

Their perception of where they had seen the jogger was also incorrect, inasmuch as the jogger's route was known.  This was also a dock identification, a method known to be highly suggestive.  The problems that I outlined here are severe in their own right, apart from the testimony itself.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2023, 03:23:39 AM by Chris_Halkides »

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #264 on: August 08, 2023, 01:17:54 PM »
-- and no one else on the planet -- was due to meet with Jodi on 30.06.03. LM.

Perhaps you think that the killer should have sent an invite? Or a text…could you please attend the woodland strip behind the broken wall for a spot of murder?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2023, 02:35:47 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Chris_Halkides

recommendations from Canada concerning alibi witnesses
« Reply #265 on: August 08, 2023, 03:07:54 PM »
"The alibi witnesses should not be subjected to cross-examination or suggestions by the police that they are mistaken. The alibi witnesses should be treated with respect and courtesy. They should not be threatened or intimidated or influenced to change their position. However, I agree that it is appropriate for the police to instruct the witnesses that it is essential that they tell the truth and that a statement can be used as proof of its contents. The witnesses should be advised that they should be careful to tell the truth and of the consequences of a failure to do so."

"It is essential that any further interviews of Crown witnesses following the disclosure of the alibi evidence should as well be videotaped or, if that is impossible, audiotaped. Every portion of the interview should be transcribed. Any statement alleged to have been made by the witness and which does not appear on the tape recording should be deemed to be inadmissible." (two recommendations from a commission report following some wrongful convictions in Canada).

These are sensible policies, and this case might have unfolded differently had something similar been followed.

Offline Chris_Halkides

making the witness stand out
« Reply #266 on: August 08, 2023, 04:38:52 PM »
In the book Convicting the Innocent, a retrospective analysis of wrongful convictions, Brandon L. Garrett wrote, “Although showups may be highly suggestive, a lineup may also be suggestive if it is not set up fairly. At least 34% of the trials obtained with eyewitness testimony (55 of 161 trials) were biased, or stacked to make the suspect stand out. If some of the fillers in the lineup do not look anything like the description of the culprit, or the suspect, then the lineup is not a sound test of the eyewitnesses’ memory."

In another thread I offered the Dean Gillispie case as an example of using the background to make one person stand out, but the Thomas Sophonow case is an equally egregious example.  With respect to the photo lineup that Ms. Bryson saw, Mr. Mitchell's photo was the only one with a white background.  Donald Findlay indicated that no one else had a similar haircut.  Ms Bryson saw Mr. Mitchell's photo afterward, further confounding the process.  And these are the flaws before one gets to the problematic testimony itself.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2023, 04:53:24 PM by Chris_Halkides »

Offline KenMair

Re: Luke Mitchell - Misinformation corrected.
« Reply #267 on: August 08, 2023, 07:26:36 PM »
Perhaps you think that the killer should have sent an invite? Or a text…could you please attend the woodland strip behind the broken wall for a spot of murder?

A breakthrough! You might be onto something with the text. LM sent one at 4.36pm arranging to meet. And she was dead 40 mins later.

Offline Chris_Halkides

Lessons from the Andrew Malkinson case
« Reply #268 on: August 09, 2023, 01:25:38 AM »
https://www.bindmans.com/knowledge-hub/blogs/andrew-malkinson-what-went-wrong/
"Andrew Malkinson’s case is a bitterly poignant reminder of the risks associated with eye witness identification evidence, which courts have long recognised can be unreliable. Safeguards include capture of all first descriptions provided by witnesses, scrutiny of the duration of observation, quality of lighting and view and any factors that may have influenced a witness’s recollection as well as strict adherence to authorised forms of identification procedure. However awful the crime, justice can never be served by a less than rigorous approach to such evidence during investigation and trial...It is surprising that Mr Malkinson was convicted on the basis of eyewitness identification without there being any DNA or other compelling evidence to connect him to the crime as such evidence might be expected to be present in a case of this nature. Defendants will invariably wish to examine the full details of any DNA sampling and analysis undertaken for the police and to have disclosure of all the relevant records before trial, and may choose to undertake their own analysis. It is also vital that exhibits and all DNA samples are retained after conviction for as long as there may be any possibility of an appeal so that retesting can be facilitated."

Offline Nicholas

Re: Lessons from the Andrew Malkinson case
« Reply #269 on: August 09, 2023, 03:45:19 PM »
https://www.bindmans.com/knowledge-hub/blogs/andrew-malkinson-what-went-wrong/
"Andrew Malkinson’s case is a bitterly poignant reminder of the risks associated with eye witness identification evidence, which courts have long recognised can be unreliable. Safeguards include capture of all first descriptions provided by witnesses, scrutiny of the duration of observation, quality of lighting and view and any factors that may have influenced a witness’s recollection as well as strict adherence to authorised forms of identification procedure. However awful the crime, justice can never be served by a less than rigorous approach to such evidence during investigation and trial...It is surprising that Mr Malkinson was convicted on the basis of eyewitness identification without there being any DNA or other compelling evidence to connect him to the crime as such evidence might be expected to be present in a case of this nature. Defendants will invariably wish to examine the full details of any DNA sampling and analysis undertaken for the police and to have disclosure of all the relevant records before trial, and may choose to undertake their own analysis. It is also vital that exhibits and all DNA samples are retained after conviction for as long as there may be any possibility of an appeal so that retesting can be facilitated."

This is yet more innocence fraud spin

Violent rapist Andrew Malkinson’s victim said she would “never forget his face” before she lost unconsciousness

She told the jury in February 2004 she was “more than 100% certain” Malkinson was her attacker!

Malkinson’s victim has not retracted this
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation