What is Kevin Craigie guilty of?

[Jason]

They needed Smiths "evidene" to support their Joint Enterprise scenario for the prosecution. In the first two statements Smith stated he knew nothing. In the Police cells, waiting to be hauled back to Scotland, its then incrimination time. Smith faced 10 yrs. Then they brought in "conspiracy to rob" which again never existed. What they did not bank on was that Kevin Craigie who knew this would challenge it year after year. Thats why so many people, who know the case, as I now know it, know it is full of blatant corruption. The Police in 1990 were responsible

[sika]

They needed Smiths "evidene" to support their Joint Enterprise scenario for the prosecution. In the first two statements Smith stated he knew nothing. In the Police cells, waiting to be hauled back to Scotland, its then incrimination time. Smith faced 10 yrs. Then they brought in "conspiracy to rob" which again never existed. What they did not bank on was that Kevin Craigie who knew this would challenge it year after year. Thats why so many people, who know the case, as I now know it, know it is full of blatant corruption. The Police in 1990 were responsible

If Smiths first two statements have disappeared, how do we know what was contained within them?  Surely the prosecutors were more interested in the fact that Craigie was found in the dead mans car and that Craigie covertly followed the pair to the house.

[Jason]

Kevin had them for a while amongt his depositions.

He did not follow them covertly, thats what the prosecution conveniently made out. He was trying to keep up with them and shouted Fuller twice to no avail (London night crowds)

Kevin was the one who discreetly attracted the attention of two police officer driving in an unmarked car. He wanted their help. Kevin also grabbed Fuller as he tried running off when stopped at Petticoat lane market in the east end of London

Its all there amongst the paperwork

[sika]

Kevin had them for a while amongt his depositions.

He did not follow them covertly, thats what the prosecution conveniently made out. He was trying to keep up with them and shouted Fuller twice to no avail (London night crowds)

Kevin was the one who discreetly attracted the attention of two police officer driving in an unmarked car. He wanted their help. Kevin also grabbed Fuller as he tried running off when stopped at Petticoat lane market in the east end of London

Its all there amongst the paperwork

In his initial interview with the Police, Craigie described how he followed the pair, keeping a safe distance so as not to be seen.  Once inside the house, Fuller signaled for Craigie to enter also.

[John]

I am not better placed, nor claimed to be. However, having now read ALL the case files my conclusion is that he is not guilty. I also met him in London and months later in Manchester when we went there.Kevin Craigie spent over an hour discussing my brothers case with my wife and I. My brother then took the advice and got new lawyers to represent him.

The Jury? They wanted to acquitt Kevin Craigie and convict only Fuller. The Judge insisted they convict them both or acquitt them both. Then the Judge was minutes away from acquitting them when the Jury came back with a 10/2 verdict. Justice ? erm, not in my book it is not. Did you also know that Kevin Cragie was offered 8 yrs manslaughter if he pleaded guilty ?? This was within days of the trial starting. He refused, as any innocent man would do.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not completely au  fait with this case, but Kevin left a dying man at the scene? And stole his car?

Exactly Shona, he set out on the basis of a joint enterprise with Mark Fuller and ended up in the shit.  Now that he has had time to think about it he can see how stupid a man he was.  Doesn't change anything though - he was found guilty of being involved in the murder of Kenneth Rothwell, he didn't have to wield the stair spindle but he was there and that in Law is all that it takes.

Eat your humble pie Kevin because that is all you will get.   

[John]

Fuller was waving the murder weapon above his head !! Fuller had already struck Kevin on the wrist. He had no choice but to get in the car, even though he asked Fuller to leave without him. His intention being to raise the alarm as soon as he was physically away from Fuller...which he did.

Dont believe everything the ill informed say

He must have been a right pussy!!   

And as for Fullers sentence, Craigie told me that Fuller only did 10 years for cooperating with the authorities so if that is wrong then Craigie is wrong!

[John]

Kevin had them for a while amongt his depositions.

He did not follow them covertly, thats what the prosecution conveniently made out. He was trying to keep up with them and shouted Fuller twice to no avail (London night crowds)

Kevin was the one who discreetly attracted the attention of two police officer driving in an unmarked car. He wanted their help. Kevin also grabbed Fuller as he tried running off when stopped at Petticoat lane market in the east end of London

Its all there amongst the paperwork

What a load of piss.  By his own admission Craigie followed Fuller and Rothwell discreetly onto the London Underground and travelled in the next carriage half way across London thereby missing the curfew at their hostel.  And you are trying to tell people you couldn't keep up?   What a joker!

Craigie and Fuller were caught because Fuller drove Mr Rothwell's stolen car the wrong way up a one-way street.  Even when stopped by the police Craigie didn't tell the police of the assault and where the injured man could be found. 

You are such a liar Kevin Craigie!

[John]

Bottom line is that Craigie and Fuller set out to partake in criminal activity and on this particular night it was Fuller who picked up Kenneth Rothwell in a gay club.  Fuller and Rothwell set off for Rothwell's home to partake in what can only be imagined was gay sex.  Craigie followed them at a discreet distance.

At the property Fuller summoned Craigie in while Rothwell was in the shower.  Rothwell came out of the shower to find the two men in his house and that is when things kicked off.  Fuller ended up hitting Rothwell over the head with a stair spindle and knocking him senseless, bleeding but still alive.  Both men ransacked the property and stole Rothwell's car keys before making their escape.  They stole his car but were stopped by police a short time later while driving the wrong way up a one-way street.

Kenneth Rothwell was dead when police arrived at his home.  Fuller and Craigie were convicted of Joint Enterprise murder, Fuller served 10 years while Craigie served 13 years.  I understand Fuller was given a new identity when released.

Now remind me...how is Kevin Craigie innocent?   8-)(--)

[Jason]

Bottom line is that Craigie and Fuller set out to partake in criminal activity and on this particular night it was Fuller who picked up Kenneth Rothwell in a gay club.  Fuller and Rothwell set off for Rothwell's home to partake in what can only be imagined was gay sex.  Craigie followed them at a discreet distance.

At the property Fuller summoned Craigie in while Rothwell was in the shower.  Rothwell came out of the shower to find the two men in his house and that is when things kicked off.  Fuller ended up hitting Rothwell over the head with a stair spindle and knocking him senseless, bleeding but still alive.  Both men ransacked the property and stole Rothwell's car keys before making their escape.  They stole his car but were stopped by police a short time later while driving the wrong way up a one-way street.

Kenneth Rothwell was dead when police arrived at his home.  Fuller and Craigie were convicted of Joint Enterprise murder, Fuller served 10 years while Craigie served 13 years.  I understand Fuller was given a new identity when released.

Now remind me...how is Kevin Craigie innocent?   8-)(--)

Try reading the entire case without selecting the bits you like and excluding the bits you don't before reaching a conclusion. Some people on here sure do talk nonsense.

If your present in the garage when its held up and the cashier is shot dead then according to you Shona your equally as guilty ? Thankfully that is not the law of Joint Enterprise as most GCSE school kids studying the subject would tell you.

Will end there before I am accused of being Kevin Craigie like everyone else who attempts to discuss this case rationally

[John]

Bottom line is that Craigie and Fuller set out to partake in criminal activity and on this particular night it was Fuller who picked up Kenneth Rothwell in a gay club.  Fuller and Rothwell set off for Rothwell's home to partake in what can only be imagined was gay sex.  Craigie followed them at a discreet distance.

At the property Fuller summoned Craigie in while Rothwell was in the shower.  Rothwell came out of the shower to find the two men in his house and that is when things kicked off.  Fuller ended up hitting Rothwell over the head with a stair spindle and knocking him senseless, bleeding but still alive.  Both men ransacked the property and stole Rothwell's car keys before making their escape.  They stole his car but were stopped by police a short time later while driving the wrong way up a one-way street.

Kenneth Rothwell was dead when police arrived at his home.  Fuller and Craigie were convicted of Joint Enterprise murder, Fuller served 10 years while Craigie served 13 years.  I understand Fuller was given a new identity when released.

Now remind me...how is Kevin Craigie innocent?   8-)(--)

Try reading the entire case without selecting the bits you like and excluding the bits you don't before reaching a conclusion. Some people on here sure do talk nonsense.

If your present in the garage when its held up and the cashier is shot dead then according to you Shona your equally as guilty ? Thankfully that is not the law of Joint Enterprise as most GCSE school kids studying the subject would tell you.

Will end there before I am accused of being Kevin Craigie like everyone else who attempts to discuss this case rationally

Oh you couldn't possibly be Kevin Craigie because your logic is warped.  Kevin Craigie would never fall into the traps you have.

Its interesting that you raise the analogy between an innocent onlooker caught up in a garage hold up and a case where two guys jointly set out to rob and ended up involved in murder.  What you fail to comprehend is that Kevin Craigie is just as guilty as Mark Fuller in the cold-blooded murder of Kenneth Rothwell by virtue of him being jointly involved with him.  Craigie didn't even need to have hit Rothwell, he was there and assisted an offender in criminal acts.  Craigie then offers somewhat childish excuses as to why he didn't summon help for Mr Rothwell.  Craigie would appear to be a rather weak insecure character easily led by his peers.  He comes across as a coward who cannot face his critics but cowers behind his laptop.  Sorry, that should have been some lady's laptop as it is allegedly stolen too!

[Jason]

Yet again your arguments are seriously flawed, and at times completely inaccurate. Im not going to waste hours of my valuable time trying to "educate" an old con like you (an ex offender )like you with facts.
We all know what you stand for. I personally find you to be a despicable specimen as most others do.
I was discussing the case last night with Sika, not you.
Five years from now, you will still be on here acting like the school bully, safely tucked behind your computer.
I expect cases like Kevin Craigie's,Luke Mitchells, and several others will have proven themselves to be M.O.j.
You will still be spouting your intense hatred, anger,conflict, confrontation, name calling and frustration to whoever will listen. That is your world, your mind set, your entire life.
It is all that you know. Thats the only world you can function in as you know no other. You are excluded from society as a whole. You clearly despise yourself which is why you project that onto other people. When there is no one left, you will make up yet more false profiles to chatter away to yourself John Lamberton.
Kevin Craigie weak ? He did not strike me as weak, far from it. He struck me as very determined and conscise
Stolen computers ? Very much doubt it.
If he had stolen a computer he would have been arrested.
One of many of your victims of your intense daily hate campaign of  misinformation ? Yes Yes Yes. (as everyone sussed out months ago)
Why do you persist on diverting away from your own criminal convictions/case whenever anyone asks ? You usually switch straight onto someone elses !!!
I would rather be Luke Mitchell, Kevin Craigie etc etc with their lives than wake up in the morning and be YOU John Lamberton.
Finally, before I depart from your red planet I thought I would help you with your representations to the SCCRC. I sent them, as a concerned member of the public (and the investigating DC whom you were trashing )a copy of all your campaining work going back years. It gives them an insight into your character/psyche.

[Nicholas]

Yet again your arguments are seriously flawed, and at times completely inaccurate. Im not going to waste hours of my valuable time trying to "educate" an old con like you (an ex offender )like you with facts.
We all know what you stand for. I personally find you to be a despicable specimen as most others do.
I was discussing the case last night with Sika, not you.
Five years from now, you will still be on here acting like the school bully, safely tucked behind your computer.
I expect cases like Kevin Craigie's,Luke Mitchells, and several others will have proven themselves to be M.O.j.
You will still be spouting your intense hatred, anger,conflict, confrontation, name calling and frustration to whoever will listen. That is your world, your mind set, your entire life.
It is all that you know. Thats the only world you can function in as you know no other. You are excluded from society as a whole. You clearly despise yourself which is why you project that onto other people. When there is no one left, you will make up yet more false profiles to chatter away to yourself John Lamberton.
Kevin Craigie weak ? He did not strike me as weak, far from it. He struck me as very determined and conscise
Stolen computers ? Very much doubt it.
If he had stolen a computer he would have been arrested.
One of many of your victims of your intense daily hate campaign of  misinformation ? Yes Yes Yes. (as everyone sussed out months ago)
Why do you persist on diverting away from your own criminal convictions/case whenever anyone asks ? You usually switch straight onto someone elses !!!
I would rather be Luke Mitchell, Kevin Craigie etc etc with their lives than wake up in the morning and be YOU John Lamberton.
Finally, before I depart from your red planet I thought I would help you with your representations to the SCCRC. I sent them, as a concerned member of the public (and the investigating DC whom you were trashing )a copy of all your campaining work going back years. It gives them an insight into your character/psyche.

Ha ha ha....

NO NO NO!! Now where have we heard that before?

Kevin Craigie is guilty as charged!!! He will never overturn his conviction as it is as safe as houses!

[sika]

Hello Jason, I think you'll actually find that John is quite keen to take questions on his own case.  Here's your chance.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=604.msg18565;boardseen#new

[sika]

Hello Steph, nice to see you back.

[Zed]

Yet again your arguments are seriously flawed, and at times completely inaccurate. Im not going to waste hours of my valuable time trying to "educate" an old con like you (an ex offender )like you with facts.
We all know what you stand for. I personally find you to be a despicable specimen as most others do.
I was discussing the case last night with Sika, not you.
Five years from now, you will still be on here acting like the school bully, safely tucked behind your computer.
I expect cases like Kevin Craigie's,Luke Mitchells, and several others will have proven themselves to be M.O.j.
You will still be spouting your intense hatred, anger,conflict, confrontation, name calling and frustration to whoever will listen. That is your world, your mind set, your entire life.
It is all that you know. Thats the only world you can function in as you know no other. You are excluded from society as a whole. You clearly despise yourself which is why you project that onto other people. When there is no one left, you will make up yet more false profiles to chatter away to yourself John Lamberton.
Kevin Craigie weak ? He did not strike me as weak, far from it. He struck me as very determined and conscise
Stolen computers ? Very much doubt it.
If he had stolen a computer he would have been arrested.
One of many of your victims of your intense daily hate campaign of  misinformation ? Yes Yes Yes. (as everyone sussed out months ago)
Why do you persist on diverting away from your own criminal convictions/case whenever anyone asks ? You usually switch straight onto someone elses !!!
I would rather be Luke Mitchell, Kevin Craigie etc etc with their lives than wake up in the morning and be YOU John Lamberton.
Finally, before I depart from your red planet I thought I would help you with your representations to the SCCRC. I sent them, as a concerned member of the public (and the investigating DC whom you were trashing )a copy of all your campaining work going back years. It gives them an insight into your character/psyche.

Ha ha ha....

NO NO NO!! Now where have we heard that before?

Kevin Craigie is guilty as charged!!! He will never overturn his conviction as it is as safe as houses!

 8@??)(So says the pseudo wife of convicted granny killer simon hall....