Author Topic: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.  (Read 68578 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #300 on: November 29, 2019, 11:32:02 AM »
https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/a7djoe/10_days_of_jonbenetthe_open_butler_door/

A study of the Butlers Kitchen external door and how it is found open.  This may not be correct, but it gives a good basis to work from.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #301 on: November 29, 2019, 06:36:55 PM »
It has been very interesting, seeing how from the set of inconsistencies noted early on, there gradually developed a comprehensive "New Theory" suggesting the possible involvement of the elder two children in some sort of plot to disrupt the plans to have a second Christmas in Charlevoix.

Maybe Patsy was right when she said to Pam, "we didn't plan for this to happen" or whatever the words were.

Look I'm taking a break for a while, but I might add a little more everyday  but it won't be the massive effort as of late, unless something massive turns up out of the blue.
Thanking all of you who have read the thread, particularly those who have attempted to read and follow the links from the beginning. 
If anyone has done the whole thread and all the links you might well be the perpetrator, for who else  would torture themselves voluntarily like that! 

For those who don't know what I talking about:
https://kgov.com/jonbenet-ramsey-murder-clue-that-breaks-the-case

From the article called "The Clue that Breaks the Ramsey Case"
"On Dec. 27, 1996 Patsy Ramsey, being exhausted and lying down, reached up and touched the face of a friend, Pam Griffin, the woman who had made JonBenet's pageant costumes. Griffin thought Patsy was delirious when she asked, “Couldn’t you fix this for me?” as though a sewing machine could bring back her daughter.  She then remembers Patsy saying, “We didn’t mean for this to happen” and Griffin got the definite feeling that in her weakened condition, Patsy had revealed that she knew who the killer was."

« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 06:44:02 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #302 on: November 29, 2019, 08:30:45 PM »
someone has suggested this was the original source of that information:
https://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon0216.htm an article by Karen Auge a Denver Post Staff Writer

"- On Dec. 27, Pam Griffin found a telephone message from Patsy's sister Polly. "Patsy needs you right now." Griffin was the seamstress who made JonBenét's pageant costumes and was Patsy's confidante about beauty pageants. At the Boulder home of John and Barbara Fernie, friends of the Ramseys', Pam, a former registered nurse, touched Patsy's skin and realized she was dehydrated. She brought Patsy some water and made her drink it. She then told her to lie down. Hours later, Patsy finally took Pam's advice.

Patsy then touched Pam's face. "Couldn't you fix this for me?" she asked. Pam thought she was delirious. It was as if Patsy were asking her to fix a ripped seam. "Patsy said something like, "We didn't mean for that to happen'," Pam would say later. Pam couldn't say why, but she remembered feeling as if Patsy knew who killed JonBenét but was afraid to say.

But I have a feeling the source is even earlier than that too for the above article quotes a book "Perfect Murder Perfect Town"  ""Perfect Murder, Perfect Town," is the latest work by Schiller, who previously was best known for being the author of "American Tragedy: The Uncensored Story of the Simpson Defense.""
Maybe Schiller is the source.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 08:34:30 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #303 on: November 30, 2019, 12:07:12 AM »
from PMPTit says:
"On the afternoon of December 27, when Pam Griffin got home from her interview with Detective Mason, she found a telephone message from Patsy’s sister Polly. “Patsy needs you right now!” Polly had left directions to the Fernies’ house. At the Fernies’, Pam and Kristine found that Patsy was overdosing on Valium. She’d been taking the powerful tranquilizer every few hours and had probably lost track of the amount. Pam, a former registered nurse, touched Patsy’s skin and realized she was dehydrated. She brought Patsy some water and made her drink it. Later that afternoon, Kristine and Pam sat on either side of Patsy, holding her hands. “You know,” Patsy said quietly to Pam, as if she were telling someone for the first time, “they’ve killed my baby.” Pam noticed that Patsy used the word they. “You need to brush your hair,” Pam told her. “You need to lie down a little bit.” But Patsy stood up to greet each new person who arrived, and as she did, tears streamed down her face. These friends, Pam observed, were entirely different from the people she and Patsy knew in common—their pageant friends. The people visiting her here were strangers to Pam. Hours later, Patsy finally took Pam’s advice and lay down in the Fernies’ bedroom. Kristine went to the bathroom to get a cool washcloth for Patsy’s forehead. While she was gone, Patsy reached up and touched Pam’s face. “Couldn’t you fix this for me?” she asked. Pam thought she was delirious. It was as if Patsy were asking her to fix a ripped seam. “Patsy said something like, ‘We didn’t mean for that to happen,’” Pam would say later. After Patsy napped for almost an hour, Pam took her into the shower and washed her hair. Patsy was unable even to dry herself, and Pam wrapped a towel around her. Later, Pam couldn’t say why, but she remembered feeling as if Patsy knew who killed JonBenét but was afraid to say."

Schiller doesn't say how he came to know all this detail.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #304 on: November 30, 2019, 06:22:48 AM »
This is the first time I have become aware of this fact:"In order not to tie the up any lines, all outgoing calls made from the Ramsey home were done on cell phones, belonging to John Ramsey and John Fernie, located inside the residence. John did answer two phone calls which caused him to react by sobbing and having difficulty talking. One call was from his son, John Andrew, and the second from his daughter, Melissa.

No one seemed to notice at first that the suspected kidnappers had not called by 10:00 a.m. the appointed time according to the ransom note." http://www.re-newsit.com/p/the-bonita-papers-are-unedited-notes-of.html

Fact John Fernie had his cellphone with him.
And the order of the calls from his kids, JAR first and Melinda second.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #305 on: November 30, 2019, 06:33:46 AM »
This covers whether JBR was wearing  the white top at bedtime.

"According to the official statements given by John and Patsy, John carried his sleeping daughter up to her bedroom on the second floor of the family home. Patsy ran ahead of John to turn down JonBenet's bed. After John laid his sleeping daughter on her bed, Patsy changed JonBenet's black velvet outfit she had worn to the dinner party, and put her to bed wearing the white shirt she had worn to the dinner party and long white thermal underpants. JonBenet, exhausted from the day's activities, never woke while Patsy changed the clothes."  http://www.re-newsit.com/p/the-bonita-papers-are-unedited-notes-of.html
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #306 on: November 30, 2019, 08:01:49 AM »
This could be an interesting read "The Murder of JonBenét Ramsey"  http://www.crimemagazine.com/murder-jonben%C3%A9t-ramsey
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #307 on: November 30, 2019, 08:29:57 AM »
Rare parts of the sealed Fleet White deposition quoted here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11502549&postcount=87
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #308 on: November 30, 2019, 10:22:58 AM »
Actual address of Fernie's residence mentioned her PMPT  "At dusk, the Ramseys had their son, Burke, picked up from the Whites’ house and he was brought to the Fernies’ place in the Shanahan Ridge development on Table Mesa, below the foothills. There was room for all of them to stay overnight. "
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #309 on: November 30, 2019, 10:37:37 AM »
I am debating whether John Fernie took money from John Ramsey's account or his own.

https://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/threads/the-morning-of-12-26-96.3781/
 
"The original ransom note had been collected into evidence, transported to police headquarters and copies returned to the Ramsey home. Some of the detectives were working on obtaining the ransom money.  The Lafayette State Bank was contacted about providing the cash. Family friend, John Fernie, had also been to his bank and arranged for the $118,000 to be available within an hours notice in the denominations required by the ransom note.

John Fernie's bank, his money?
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #310 on: November 30, 2019, 06:42:32 PM »
I am debating whether John Fernie took money from John Ramsey's account or his own.

https://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/threads/the-morning-of-12-26-96.3781/
 
"The original ransom note had been collected into evidence, transported to police headquarters and copies returned to the Ramsey home. Some of the detectives were working on obtaining the ransom money.  The Lafayette State Bank was contacted about providing the cash. Family friend, John Fernie, had also been to his bank and arranged for the $118,000 to be available within an hours notice in the denominations required by the ransom note.

John Fernie's bank, his money?
John was told by Linda Arndt to delay getting the money until 5 PM yet Fernie seems to have gone behind her back and arranged to have the money on hand, but even that was still not as the kidnappers demanded.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 09:48:03 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #311 on: November 30, 2019, 10:13:24 PM »
There is a debate about how many pages are missing from the notepad>

"this is what Steve Thomas said about the note in his book. I don't know if it is correct or note

ST Page 73

"Chet Ubowski at the CBI had pulled startling information from the tablet belonging to patsy Ramsey. By comparing tear patterns, Ubowski had determined that the first twelve pages were missing and the next four - pages 13 through 16 - contained doodles and lists and some miscellaneous writing."

"But the next group of pages, 17 through 25, were also missing from the tablet. The following page, 26, was the practice ransom note (Mr. and Mrs. I), and that page showed evidence of ink bleedthrough from the missing page 25."

"Comparisons of the ragged tops of the ransom note pages with the remnants left in the tablet proved that it had come from pages 27, 28, and 29."

"Furthermore, the ink bleedthrough discovered on page 26 indicated that perhaps still another practice note could have been writtenon page 25 and been discarded. ""

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/9ux3pc/what_did_the_practice_ransom_note_say/

So that clearly means there was more than one ransom note or practice note was written on the notepad.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 11:55:46 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #312 on: November 30, 2019, 11:57:56 PM »
IMO the more notes that are written the more likely it was an intruder that wrote out the notes.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #313 on: December 01, 2019, 04:12:21 AM »
This essay on the Forensic Outreach site is  well researched https://forensicoutreach.com/library/the-jonbenet-ramsey-case-spotlight-on-the-ransom-note/
Titled:  "The JonBenét Ramsey Case: Spotlight on the Ransom Note"
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #314 on: December 02, 2019, 02:42:37 AM »
Why was Mason removed from the case?

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-01-08-9701080195-story.html

"Earlier Tuesday, officials said they had removed the lead Boulder police detective from the team investigating the case. And a judge sealed the search warrant for the Ramsey house despite objections by a Boulder newspaper and other news media.

Boulder Police Chief Tom Koby dropped Sgt. Larry Mason from the murder case effective last Sunday, authorities said. Mason and four other detectives traveled last week to Atlanta to question more than 30 of John and Patsy Ramsey's friends, relatives and associates, including former business partners of John Ramsey."

From PMPT "When Mason returned to his hotel room that night, he found a fax from Eller telling him to cancel the interview. Eller gave no explanation. Mason phoned his boss and said he’d already done the interview. He had received the fax after the fact, he said. Eller said he didn’t believe him. Meanwhile, unknown to Mason, CNN, citing an unnamed source, had reported that the Ramseys had agreed to an interview with the Boulder police. When the Boulder detectives returned home and reported to headquarters the next evening, Eller called Mason upstairs to Chief Tom Koby’s office. As soon as

113

Mason saw Sgt. Robert Thomas, Jr., of internal affairs, he knew he was in trouble. When Greg Perry, the police union president, walked in a few minutes later, his fears deepened. Eller told Mason to sit down. “I’m fine standing up,” Mason replied. Eller again ordered Mason to sit down. This time he did. Eller accused Mason of leaking to CNN the fact that the Ramseys had agreed to an interview with the Boulder police. This was information Eller said he had personally given to Mason on the phone when Mason was at the Roswell, Georgia, police department the night before. It was, said Eller, information that nobody else knew. Mason denied the charge. He said he had not released any unauthorized information. “You’re lying,” Eller said. “I know for a fact you did.” “I’m not lying,” Mason shot back. “You’re absolutely wrong.” At this point, Koby had to calm him down. And then the chief suspended Mason. A few weeks later, he would be reassigned to patrol. “Don’t sell your house,” Mason said to Eller as he left. On the spot, he had decided he would sue both Eller and the department for false accusations and wrongful suspension. As Mason drove home, he brooded on the Ramsey case. He wanted to interview JonBenét’s brother, Burke. His own children often didn’t remember awakening during the night and being put back to bed. Mason wanted to ask Burke about his dreams that night. Sometimes kids wake up to something and go back to sleep believing they’ve had a dream. That was the kind of question he wanted answered. The next day, Monday, January 6, Bryan Morgan, one of John Ramsey’s attorneys, told Eller that someone from

114

“his [Morgan’s] side of the table” had disclosed the information to CNN. Despite this information, and though Eller had information that could have caused him to believe he had wrongly accused Mason—and though news of Mason’s suspension had not yet been released to the media—he did not change course. That afternoon Mason retained Marc Colin, an attorney who specialized in representing police officers. Two days later, Colin discovered that the Roswell police, unknown to Eller or Mason, routinely taped all incoming and outgoing phone calls. That information was relayed to Boulder internal affairs investigator Robert Thomas, who learned from the tapes that Eller had in fact told Mason nothing about the information that CNN aired. Despite this evidence of Mason’s innocence and Eller’s duplicity, it would take a year before Larry Mason was completely exonerated. He had been relieved of his duties so early in the investigation that he hadn’t yet transcribed his taped interviews or completed his report for the period after JonBenét’s murder when he was on the case— December 26, 1996, to January 5, 1997. Not until December 1997 would Chief Koby publicly apologize for Mason’s suspension. It would be another six months before Mason was asked to submit his report. "

So it seems they just didn't work well together.
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