Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.

[faithlilly]

If it were Matt, then how would he know exactly how the patio door had been left  by Gerry?

But Matt didn't do a visual check until, we are told, after 9.30.

[G-Unit]

I am not at all  'attracted' to the McCanns.  Why should I be?   Please explain.

My main reason for posting on this case is because I have been appalled at the downright  lies, rumours and gossip which have been accepted by some people to be facts - and who then gleefully use those so called  'facts' to hound the family of a missing child.    I would feel exactly the same if  Kerry Needham or Coral Jones were being subjected to the same cruel, vile behaviour year in year out.   

 

Everyone has access to the same information on this case. People interpret it differently, that's all. I am appalled that those who support the McCanns continually claim the moral high ground and accuse others of all sorts of bad behaviour as above. To claim the moral high ground people need to be more measured and less inflammatory in my opinion. If someone thinks a story doesn't add up calling them names is not going to change their minds, reasoned argument is the best way to achieve change.

MWT's theory is lacking any explanation of the open shutters and window, so is incomplete. He also assumes that the parents wouldn't do any wrong, which is naive to say the least; plenty parents do harm their children.

[Benice]

do you  accept  that without the mcanns  lack of childcare she wouldnt be missing?

You may consider the McCanns displayed a lack of childcare, but that is merely your opinion.  Yes - thousands agree with you but equally - there are thousands who don't.    However, whatever a person's opinion is on that subject - it does not excuse or justify a child being abducted from her bed.   The real criminal here is the person who took her.

Do you regard those holidaymakers who, inspite of what happened to Madeleine,  still leave their children asleep in their rooms whilst they go to dinner - knowing they will be regularly checked -  to be as guilty as the McCanns.  If not why not?

Why would holiday tour operators, hoteliers etc etc offer a service to their customers if it was illegal from a childcare point of view?

IMO the 'service' should be banned and people who use baby alarms for the same purpose should be actively discouraged from doing so.     However, as it stands they are not breaking any laws - and neither were the McCanns.

Who can say whether Madeleine would have been abducted or not.   The monster who targeted British children in their beds did so knowing that their parents were in another room at the time.  That didn't deter him.

[carlymichelle]

Everyone has access to the same information on this case. People interpret it differently, that's all. I am appalled that those who support the McCanns continually claim the moral high ground and accuse others of all sorts of bad behaviour as above. To claim the moral high ground people need to be more measured and less inflammatory in my opinion. If someone thinks a story doesn't add up calling them names is not going to change their minds, reasoned argument is the best way to achieve change.

MWT's theory is lacking any explanation of the open shutters and window, so is incomplete. He also assumes that the parents wouldn't do any wrong, which is naive to say the least; plenty parents do harm their children.

well said  they dish it out and they whine when they get it back

[pegasus]

Unlikely to be able to do so without trace.
She had to get through the patio sliding door - not reported as being sufficiently open for a child to get through when Kate arrives for her visit.
...(snip)

From inside, slide door open by pushing on handle - very easy - there is a photo of a younger child operating an identical door. Then from outside slide door closed by placing hands on door and pushing sideways - this is physically possible for a child IMO (see how easily it slides when opened from outside by father in the video).

[stephen25000]

Everyone has access to the same information on this case. People interpret it differently, that's all. I am appalled that those who support the McCanns continually claim the moral high ground and accuse others of all sorts of bad behaviour as above. To claim the moral high ground people need to be more measured and less inflammatory in my opinion. If someone thinks a story doesn't add up calling them names is not going to change their minds, reasoned argument is the best way to achieve change.

MWT's theory is lacking any explanation of the open shutters and window, so is incomplete. He also assumes that the parents wouldn't do any wrong, which is naive to say the least; plenty parents do harm their children.

 

[jassi]

But Matt didn't do a visual check until, we are told, after 9.30.

Exactly. The only one who would know how the patio  door had been  been left by the previous checker would be Gerry.  It could have been left half open by Gerry at 9.15 ish for all Matt would know.

[jassi]

From inside, slide door open by pushing on handle - very easy - there is a photo of a younger child operating an identical door. Then from outside slide door closed by placing hands on door and pushing sideways - this is physically possible for a child IMO (see how easily it slides when opened from outside by father in the video).

Indeed, but would a child bother?  I don't think I've ever come across a young child who shuts a door after then without being reminded.

[stephen25000]

Exactly. The only one who would know how the patio  door had been  been left by the previous checker would be Gerry.  It could have been left half open by Gerry at 9.15 ish for all Matt would know.

Precisely.

[carlymichelle]

Indeed, but would a child bother?  I don't think I've ever come across a young child who shuts a door after then without being reminded.

they seem to forget maddie was only   3

[Mr Gray]

Everyone has access to the same information on this case. People interpret it differently, that's all. I am appalled that those who support the McCanns continually claim the moral high ground and accuse others of all sorts of bad behaviour as above. To claim the moral high ground people need to be more measured and less inflammatory in my opinion. If someone thinks a story doesn't add up calling them names is not going to change their minds, reasoned argument is the best way to achieve change.

MWT's theory is lacking any explanation of the open shutters and window, so is incomplete. He also assumes that the parents wouldn't do any wrong, which is naive to say the least; plenty parents do harm their children.

so you call MWT naïve....but on this forum if anyone criticises Grime it is not acceptable by the sceptics because he is a professional...do you see the double standards

[G-Unit]

You may consider the McCanns displayed a lack of childcare, but that is merely your opinion.  Yes - thousands agree with you but equally - there are thousands who don't.    However, whatever a person's opinion is on that subject - it does not excuse or justify a child being abducted from her bed.   The real criminal here is the person who took her.

Do you regard those holidaymakers who, inspite of what happened to Madeleine,  still leave their children asleep in their rooms whilst they go to dinner - knowing they will be regularly checked -  to be as guilty as the McCanns.  If not why not?

Why would holiday tour operators, hoteliers etc etc offer a service to their customers if it was illegal from a childcare point of view?

IMO the 'service' should be banned and people who use baby alarms for the same purpose should be actively discouraged from doing so.     However, as it stands they are not breaking any laws - and neither were the McCanns.

Who can say whether Madeleine would have been abducted or not.   The monster who targeted British children in their beds did so knowing that their parents were in another room at the time.  That didn't deter him.

It's all down to choice. Parents choose what they believe are the right choices when it comes to childcare. Many parent's choices have been proved to be wrong and many parents have paid a price. The price ranges from being told off to losing their children in one way or another. Wise parents learn to predict, which is why we hear them saying things like 'don't do that, you'll hurt yourself!' Most parents would think twice about leaving three under 5's alone in an unlocked apartment. Anyone who thinks that was a sensible choice is in denial.

[pegasus]

(snip)... Then she has to get through/over the child gate, which I think opens outwards, so tricky to manage in the dark. Again, gate reported as closed.

The child gate opens both ways. It was designed for children up to 24 months. There is a document in the files which states "possibly open" at 9.30.

[faithlilly]

Exactly. The only one who would know how the patio  door had been  been left by the previous checker would be Gerry.  It could have been left half open by Gerry at 9.15 ish for all Matt would know.

Or Gerry could have found it half open ?

[jassi]

Or Gerry could have found it half open ?

He could have, but he didn't mention it.  Unless he shot off and  left Kate to close the patio door at 8 ish, he would know how it had been left.  He knew that Matt hadn't entered at 9 ish but only listened at the window, which was his stated reason for rushing back shortly after.