Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.

[pegasus]

Which road do you think this is ShiningInLuz?

[ShiningInLuz]

Maybe it was open only for access to businesses and residences?

Please note - I updated my post to put in the graphic I managed to miss off first time.  Desculpe.

I am trying to think where Rua Helena fits into the normal one-way system.  So far, I cannot see it as being important.  I.E. cars would not go along it around 10:30 at night to get to anywhere but the local buildings, not businesses.  That's just a starter thought, by the way.  The Maharaja, at that time the only Indian restaurant in Luz, was on Rua Helena, so I cannot discount a diner leaving, or someone getting a take-away.

Then there is whether they had a different road system in place at the time.  And Rua Helena was important.  I'm just not feeling that one at the moment.

[pegasus]

"lines show areas recently cobbled" (source: Sun sept 2007 now removed)

[pegasus]

Witness DW did a brief search of streets fairly soon after the alarm, searching up to where the area of roadworks began (please see rog). Therefore this search was IMO probably past tapas reception then through the supermarket car park as far as the north end of Rua HN Baptista where the area of roadworks began, turning back there. If a searcher choosing a search route instinctively took this route, might not a child wandering instinctively a little earlier have taken the same route? http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/5sep7/SUN-12-9-8-MAP.JPG (this map has north on the right, and if you look at the red dots which are the roadworks, the rightmost red dot is the north end of Rua HNB).

[pegasus]

A two-year-old wanders. Found about a mile away, two days later. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3260413/Toddler-girl-vanished-great-grandparents-house-Friday-two-days-later-sleeping-nearby-field.html?ito=video_player_click

[Brietta]

A two-year-old wanders. Found about a mile away, two days later. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3260413/Toddler-girl-vanished-great-grandparents-house-Friday-two-days-later-sleeping-nearby-field.html?ito=video_player_click

The majority of children who wander from the safety of their homes come to no harm and are returned safe and well.

[ShiningInLuz]

"lines show areas recently cobbled" (source: Sun sept 2007 now removed)

I'm not sure how accurate the Sun map is.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CONSTRUCTION_WORKERS.htm has the statement showing the precise location of works left open overnight on 3 May 2007.  Both are claimed to be precise markings, and both are on pavements.  One is on the SE side of Rua Helena.  The other is on the N side of Direita, just W of the junction with Teixera.

In terms of traffic flow, it would have made sense to have Teixera open and 2-way, and the E end of Direita open and 2-way, whilst all the work was strangling the roads SW of these.  But what makes sense and what happens in Portugal are not always the same.

We now have 3 ideas to consider.  The first is where road works were in action.  The second is open trenches.  The third is when the surfaces were cobbled or re-cobbled.

On the graphic attached, I have added 2 yellow lines to indicate the trenches that were open on 3 May 2007.  Note that 1 beside Direita/Teixera does NOT correspond to what the Sun thinks was recently cobbled, and that strikes me as making little sense.

The improvements were made in 2 phases.  Those around the Sun's cobbles, then work paused during the high season, then the rest was done in a second phase.

"The ambitious, but welcome major project of works programmed for 2007 / 8 is now well on its way. Scheduled in two phases, Phase 1 - February 15th to July 15th is now completed. It has resulted in a considerable improvement to the centre of town. Phase 2 - from September 15th is currently underway."

[pegasus]

@ShiningInLuz Thanks. Yes the Sun map shows phase 1 of the resurfacing of the town centre IMO. And the PJ photos show two utility trenches not marked on the Sun map but which you have correctly added. Still missing from the map is the open manhole (both the cover and the frame were removed). I am beginning to wonder if this was on R Martins very close to the apartment as that would fit the way the witness describes the location.

BTW to see roadworks only partly protected in early 2015, take a look at junction R Cemitério and R 1 Maio

[attachment deleted by admin]

[ShiningInLuz]

@ShiningInLuz Thanks. Yes the Sun map shows phase 1 of the resurfacing of the town centre IMO. And the PJ photos show two utility trenches not marked on the Sun map but which you have correctly added. Still missing from the map is the open manhole (both the cover and the frame were removed). I am beginning to wonder if this was on R Martins very close to the apartment as that would fit the way the witness describes the location.

BTW to see roadworks only partly protected in early 2015, take a look at junction R Cemitério and R 1 Maio

I'd be surprised if it was close to the apartment on Martins.

First, Jenny Murat supposedly nipped to Baptista shortly before it closed at 8pm on 3 May, and you can't do that if Martins is dug up.

Second, nobody else in the files suggests Martins was dug up.  It was Rua Helena and Direita.

Third, just from the way the traffic system would work, it makes little sense.

As to the 2015 road works, I walked from one end to the other in 2015 before they put things back together again.  However, the drill operator in the PJ Files and the civil engineer both gave statements that excavations in 2007 were filled in promptly.

The only gossip I have heard on this is that the building work in 2007 was a shambles, not the nice tidy piece of work the files would lead us to believe.  But then, I have heard lots of gossip.

[pathfinder73]

Witness DW did a brief search of streets fairly soon after the alarm, searching up to where the area of roadworks began (please see rog). Therefore this search was IMO probably past tapas reception then through the supermarket car park as far as the north end of Rua HN Baptista where the area of roadworks began, turning back there. If a searcher choosing a search route instinctively took this route, might not a child wandering instinctively a little earlier have taken the same route? http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/5sep7/SUN-12-9-8-MAP.JPG (this map has north on the right, and if you look at the red dots which are the roadworks, the rightmost red dot is the north end of Rua HNB).

Dianne Webster? She left the table and went to 5A and when Fiona arrived she went back to their apartment to look after the kids. When did this search happen?

There was a building site behind the church on 3 May 2007. It is now a car park.

[G-Unit]

Dianne Webster? She left the table and went to 5A and when Fiona arrived she went back to their apartment to look after the kids. When did this search happen?

There was a building site behind the church on 3 May 2007. It is now a car park.

Ah yes, Dianne's search which wasn't mentioned until a year after the event. Even when it was mentioned she had trouble fitting it into the timeline. She didn't enjoy it much either because there was no-one else around.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

[mercury]

Dianne Webster? She left the table and went to 5A and when Fiona arrived she went back to their apartment to look after the kids. When did this search happen?

There was a building site behind the church on 3 May 2007. It is now a car park.

 4078    ”You were back at that apartment you say you just sat out on the balcony and felt helpless.”
 Reply    ”Yeah, you see there’s, there’s, I can’t quite get the timeline together because err at one point I also went out and had a walk round looking for her but I didn’t travel very far and I can’t remember at what point that was. It was obviously before I went back to the apartment to look after err Lily and Scarlet, now on that assumption I can only, I can only, I can only think that Fiona must have been in the apartment looking after them while I was out and my whole purpose of going back to the apartment was to let Fiona out for, to be with Kate.”
 
 4078    ”Do you remember where you went when you had a little look?”
 Reply    ”Err well I wandered about, because I’ve got no sense of direction, but I certainly wandered about err to where they had, there was road works going on but I didn’t feel too happy being about on my own at that err because it was quite late.”
 
 4078    ”Did you notice anybody else around when you were out?”
 Reply    ”No I didn’t, err and that’s what made it seem creepy, the fact I was wandering about on my own.”

[pegasus]

I'd be surprised if it was close to the apartment on Martins.

First, Jenny Murat supposedly nipped to Baptista shortly before it closed at 8pm on 3 May, and you can't do that if Martins is dug up.

Second, nobody else in the files suggests Martins was dug up.  It was Rua Helena and Direita.

Third, just from the way the traffic system would work, it makes little sense.
... (snip)

Possibility 1: The open manhole was on one of the streets being resurfaced early May 2007. If so then I agree the open manhole can't have been on R Martins, because it wasn't being resurfaced and it was certainly open to vehicle traffic.

Possibility 2: The open manhole was seperate from the resurfacing work and was on a road not being resurfaced. It could have been simply a manhole cover that needed replacing, nothing to do with resurfacing. If so then it could possibly have been on R Martins. If you walk down R Martins (or many other roads) you will see that many of the manhole covers have been replaced at some time or other And if you look carefully you can see that when the engineers install a new cover they also install a new frame. (See witness statement - frame was removed too)

[pathfinder73]

4078    ”You were back at that apartment you say you just sat out on the balcony and felt helpless.”
 Reply    ”Yeah, you see there’s, there’s, I can’t quite get the timeline together because err at one point I also went out and had a walk round looking for her but I didn’t travel very far and I can’t remember at what point that was. It was obviously before I went back to the apartment to look after err Lily and Scarlet, now on that assumption I can only, I can only, I can only think that Fiona must have been in the apartment looking after them while I was out and my whole purpose of going back to the apartment was to let Fiona out for, to be with Kate.”
 
 4078    ”Do you remember where you went when you had a little look?”
 Reply    ”Err well I wandered about, because I’ve got no sense of direction, but I certainly wandered about err to where they had, there was road works going on but I didn’t feel too happy being about on my own at that err because it was quite late.”
 
 4078    ”Did you notice anybody else around when you were out?”
 Reply    ”No I didn’t, err and that’s what made it seem creepy, the fact I was wandering about on my own.”

Thanks Mercury. She was at the table then she went to 5A. She was trying the lift the shutters outside which she couldn't do then she went back out to retrieve items from the tapas table. She then went back to 5A bringing back the McCanns camera that was left on the table  &%+((£ Now Fiona is present at 5A so she goes back to look after the kids. Before going back to 5A for the second time and finding Fiona there she went for a wander around on her own. That is the only time that could fit or it must be later.

[ShiningInLuz]

Thanks Mercury. She was at the table then she went to 5A. She was trying the lift the shutters outside which she couldn't do then she went back out to retrieve items from the tapas table. She then went back to 5A bringing back the McCanns camera that was left on the table  &%+((£ Now Fiona is present at 5A so she goes back to look after the kids. Before going back to 5A for the second time and finding Fiona there she went for a wander around on her own. That is the only time that could fit.

And this is connected to woke and wandered, How?