Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.

[Brietta]

An assault on a child in the metropolis of Luz and an entry in the flat immediately above 5A hardly "kills off" the assaults on children involving home invasions ... denied for so long as never having happened at all, so I suppose acceptance that they did indeed happen is a step forward.

Ignored ... just as the archiving report is ignored.  But facts nonetheless.

Is there a deflection team in operation?  There are posters around who seem anxious to speak about anything but the theme of threads.

My post was about the 'woke and wandered' theory ... why not attempt to answer that?

[stephen25000]

There is no 'deflection team'.

Likewise the 'investigation' has found nothing.

[pegasus]

Adding a would-be burglar opening the window from outside would provide an urgent reason for a child to leave the apartment alone, making MWT's theory plausible.
Of course if that improved version of MWT's theory is correct, the crime scene would have featured an open shutter and window and a child missing from the apartment, and where in the files is any statement saying that?

[Brietta]

Clear deflection on this forum brietta ?

You never do that, do you.

You insist in stalking me.  Is it an attempt to goad?  Or is it anything at all to disrupt the flow of the forum?  Now as I was saying ... I think it is perfectly clear that three out of four professional investigation have identified stranger abduction rather than woke and wandered as what may have happened to Madeleine McCann.

Care to debate, with evidence, why that may not be so ... since you appear to be so vehemently of another opinion, although that is not really clear since you haven't given the courtesy of voicing it.

[stephen25000]

You insist in stalking me.  Is it an attempt to goad?  Or is it anything at all to disrupt the flow of the forum?  Now as I was saying ... I think it is perfectly clear that three out of four professional investigation have identified stranger abduction rather than woke and wandered as what may have happened to Madeleine McCann.

Care to debate, with evidence, why that may not be so ... since you appear to be so vehemently of another opinion, although that is not really clear since you haven't given the courtesy of voicing it.

There is no stalking or goading.

Mccann supporter abuse of a sceptic, by the numbers.

The investigations have found nothing.

If you think they have, where is Madeleine then ?

[Brietta]

Adding a would-be burglar opening the window from outside would provide an urgent reason for a child to leave the apartment alone, making MWT's theory plausible.
Of course if that improved version of MWT's theory is correct, the crime scene would have featured an open shutter and window and a child missing from the apartment, and where in the files is any statement saying that?

Apart from the photographs of fingerprinting and a record of those forensics which were not destroyed by inept harvesting, there is little, if any comment by the first investigation about the window scenario except for the later suggestion of 'staging'.

The Rebelo investigation were seen checking it out thoroughly.

Given the saturation media coverage, I think if the initial investigation had performed a similar diligence, we would have had photographic evidence of it.

We know that the initial investigation did not follow the woke and wandered theory, nor it seems have subsequent investigations.

I believe had Madeleine wandered on 3rd May ... she would not have vanished without trace.

[Alice Purjorick]

An assault on a child in the metropolis of Luz and an entry in the flat immediately above 5A hardly "kills off" the assaults on children involving home invasions ... denied for so long as never having happened at all, so I suppose acceptance that they did indeed happen is a step forward.

Ignored ... just as the archiving report is ignored.  But facts nonetheless.

Is there a deflection team in operation?  There are posters around who seem anxious to speak about anything but the theme of threads.

My post was about the 'woke and wandered' theory ... why not attempt to answer that?

Red bit. I can't find a reference to that one in Dave Edgar's stuff. Do you have a link to the report of the event?
Green bit. You don't need an above average intelligence to know that holiday resorts are targets for burglars not to mention burglary being a common risk wherever one is.

[Brietta]

Red bit. I can't find a reference to that one in Dave Edgar's stuff. Do you have a link to the report of the event?
Green bit. You don't need an above average intelligence to know that holiday resorts are targets for burglars not to mention burglary being a common risk wherever one is.

I will accept that rather than being tiresome in asking for cites to something which has been established and is well known to all on these boards, it is something which has just flown over your head.
Particularly as the very first googly thing I tried (always amazed how my google button is superior to some others)  produced that rather than one home invasion in Luz involving one child ... Scotland Yard are investigating two.

**Snip
Redwood said if names were put forward for the most serious case of sexual assault, his team would be able to eliminate them from inquiries, suggesting the police may have DNA evidence.

Nine of the 12 incidents were reported to Portuguese police at the time but British investigators learned of three only when the victims came forward in response to televised appeals last autumn.

In the attacks, the suspect may have been in the villa or looking around the villa for some time before committing the offences or being disturbed either by a parent coming in, or the child waking up, say police. On two occasions the noise of a refuse collection lorry could be heard nearby.

Of the 12 offences being investigated, four took place in Carvoeiro, six in Vale da Parra, Praia da Gale district, and two in Praia da Luz. Detectives have previously suggested Madeleine may have been abducted in a planned operation that had included individuals exploring the resort beforehand.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve


No mention at all of the woke and wandered theory ... but an obviously active interest in home invasions involving British children ... which I think is appropriate, given that these cases have not been solved ... and a British child has gone missing from her bed.

[G-Unit]

I will accept that rather than being tiresome in asking for cites to something which has been established and is well known to all on these boards, it is something which has just flown over your head.
Particularly as the very first googly thing I tried (always amazed how my google button is superior to some others)  produced that rather than one home invasion in Luz involving one child ... Scotland Yard are investigating two.

**Snip
Redwood said if names were put forward for the most serious case of sexual assault, his team would be able to eliminate them from inquiries, suggesting the police may have DNA evidence.

Nine of the 12 incidents were reported to Portuguese police at the time but British investigators learned of three only when the victims came forward in response to televised appeals last autumn.

In the attacks, the suspect may have been in the villa or looking around the villa for some time before committing the offences or being disturbed either by a parent coming in, or the child waking up, say police. On two occasions the noise of a refuse collection lorry could be heard nearby.

Of the 12 offences being investigated, four took place in Carvoeiro, six in Vale da Parra, Praia da Gale district, and two in Praia da Luz. Detectives have previously suggested Madeleine may have been abducted in a planned operation that had included individuals exploring the resort beforehand.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve


No mention at all of the woke and wandered theory ... but an obviously active interest in home invasions involving British children ... which I think is appropriate, given that these cases have not been solved ... and a British child has gone missing from her bed.

A careful reading of this article tells us that 12 incidents have been discovered, taking place between 2004-2010, two of them in Luz. Of the 12 offences only 4 involved children and they took place between 2004-2006. One of these involved 2 girls in the same premises. All the girls were aged between 7 and 10 years of age. In 6 of the cases the man sat on the victim's bed. Was one victim an adult because only 5 children were involved altogether? The incidents happened between 3am and 5am.

So, there is nothing to say that the 2 incidents in Luz involved children. (Luz is not a metropolis btw, it's a town at most) The children were all older than Madeleine. The intruder entered during the dead of night not in the evening.
No children were taken. Probably worth investigating, but Madeleine's case had a completely different scenario.
 http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve

[Alice Purjorick]

I will accept that rather than being tiresome in asking for cites to something which has been established and is well known to all on these boards, it is something which has just flown over your head.
Particularly as the very first googly thing I tried (always amazed how my google button is superior to some others)  produced that rather than one home invasion in Luz involving one child ... Scotland Yard are investigating two.

**Snip
Redwood said if names were put forward for the most serious case of sexual assault, his team would be able to eliminate them from inquiries, suggesting the police may have DNA evidence.

Nine of the 12 incidents were reported to Portuguese police at the time but British investigators learned of three only when the victims came forward in response to televised appeals last autumn.

In the attacks, the suspect may have been in the villa or looking around the villa for some time before committing the offences or being disturbed either by a parent coming in, or the child waking up, say police. On two occasions the noise of a refuse collection lorry could be heard nearby.

Of the 12 offences being investigated, four took place in Carvoeiro, six in Vale da Parra, Praia da Gale district, and two in Praia da Luz. Detectives have previously suggested Madeleine may have been abducted in a planned operation that had included individuals exploring the resort beforehand.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve


No mention at all of the woke and wandered theory ... but an obviously active interest in home invasions involving British children ... which I think is appropriate, given that these cases have not been solved ... and a British child has gone missing from her bed.

Apart from the article not confirming what you said, what about the green bit in my post? you failed to comment on that. How do you account for Dave Edgar not turning up two "attacks" in Luz?
Do you have your childish put downs on a one button macro?

[Brietta]

Apart from the article not confirming what you said, what about the green bit in my post? you failed to comment on that. How do you account for Dave Edgar not turning up two "attacks" in Luz?
Do you have your childish put downs on a one button macro?

Do you know offhand if Dave Edgar had been given access to the police files containing the data regarding the attacks on British children?
If you don't know ... why on earth do you imagine I would?

However the information on the attacks involving British children in the Algarve region should have been known to the initial investigation.

Making the question not about what Dave Edgar did or did not "turn up" ... but what the initial investigation did or did not do. 

Initially, working to solve those cases known to them.

Latterly in consideration of a possible link to Madeleine's disappearance and a possible line of inquiry.
Shoddy police work indeed.

That there were many more avenues open for investigation than the wakened and walked one is evident ... that they may not have been looked at in the depth deserved is evidenced by the fact it took the Scotland Yard investigation to put them into the public domain.

[Alice Purjorick]

Do you know offhand if Dave Edgar had been given access to the police files containing the data regarding the attacks on British children?
If you don't know ... why on earth do you imagine I would?

However the information on the attacks involving British children in the Algarve region should have been known to the initial investigation.

Making the question not about what Dave Edgar did or did not "turn up" ... but what the initial investigation did or did not do. 

Initially, working to solve those cases known to them.

Latterly in consideration of a possible link to Madeleine's disappearance and a possible line of inquiry.
Shoddy police work indeed.

That there were many more avenues open for investigation than the wakened and walked one is evident ... that they may not have been looked at in the depth deserved is evidenced by the fact it took the Scotland Yard investigation to put them into the public domain.

I said something like that in my post 292 a couple of days ago. Apart from my not sayig anything like your customary pop at the original investigation that is.
Hey ho says Rowley.

[Brietta]

I said something like that in my post 292 a couple of days ago. Apart from my not sayig anything like your customary pop at the original investigation that is.
Hey ho says Rowley.

In that case you seem to think we at least have a meeting of minds on one salient point.

[misty]

@ Pegasus
The remark about an access card to the Tapas reception

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

*snipped*-----

 Subsequently, at 17h00, the whole group, including children, went to the TAPAS situated at the back of the apartments, next to the pool, to attend a welcoming committee arranged by MARK WARNER where they met with instructors in tennis and sailing and other resort employees, which ended at 18h30, glasses of sangria having been served to them.

----- That that was the first time they walked altogether along the route inside and around the resort. They left by the front door, which he locked with the key, he followed the wall around and turned right, going down the side road to the resort up to the secondary reception where the entered without difficulty as they had an access card that they did not ask for but they had been given during the Check-in.

[pegasus]

@ Pegasus
The remark about an access card to the Tapas reception

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

*snipped*-----

 Subsequently, at 17h00, the whole group, including children, went to the TAPAS situated at the back of the apartments, next to the pool, to attend a welcoming committee arranged by MARK WARNER where they met with instructors in tennis and sailing and other resort employees, which ended at 18h30, glasses of sangria having been served to them.

----- That that was the first time they walked altogether along the route inside and around the resort. They left by the front door, which he locked with the key, he followed the wall around and turned right, going down the side road to the resort up to the secondary reception where the entered without difficulty as they had an access card that they did not ask for but they had been given during the Check-in.

Thankyou Misty. Very interesting. Do you think it is was a card to show to staff to gain access to through tapas reception, or a plastic card that one must insert in a slot to open the electric doors of the tapas reception entrance?

If the child wandered downhill would she have been able to open the tapas reception doors?