Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.

[Alfred R Jones]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread or not John, but perhaps you could explain how you think Madeleine could have woke, wandered never to be seen again, without any third party involvement?

[pegasus]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread or not John, but perhaps you could explain how you think Madeleine could have woke, wandered never to be seen again, without any third party involvement?

hypothetically a manhole with cover off? that would have no intentional 3rd party involvement

[Brietta]

hypothetically a manhole with cover off? that would have no intentional 3rd party involvement

We have seen the Scotland Yard team in 2014 lifting covers and inspecting the drainage system.  Was that a repeat of a diligence carried out in 2007?

Was a specialist unit deployed to check out specifically those trenches which were open in the town when Madeleine disappeared.  The GNR dogs knew their stuff, I'm sure accompanying such a search would have been well within their capabilities.

[Alfred R Jones]

hypothetically a manhole with cover off? that would have no intentional 3rd party involvement

Is health and safety really that poor in Portugal that manhole covers are left off for people to disappear down holes in the dark never to be seen again?

[mercury]

Is health and safety really that poor in Portugal that manhole covers are left off for people to disappear down holes in the dark never to be seen again?

Well normallly parents dont make it easy for their kids to do this...you know... Leaving them all alone whilst they nip to their local and with front door  and back door unlocked....responsible parenting though it was we are told by a barrister


"snort"

[pegasus]

We have seen the Scotland Yard team in 2014 lifting covers and inspecting the drainage system.  Was that a repeat of a diligence carried out in 2007?

Was a specialist unit deployed to check out specifically those trenches which were open in the town when Madeleine disappeared.  The GNR dogs knew their stuff, I'm sure accompanying such a search would have been well within their capabilities.

in 2014 SY inspected underground drains, but only at their "wasteland" search site.
Not near the apartment and supermarket - the press would have noticed and told us.

[Brietta]

in 2014 SY inspected underground drains, but only at their "wasteland" search site.
Not near the apartment and supermarket - the press would have noticed and told us.

The press would probably have taken note of the same diligence being carried out in 2007 ... did they?

[pegasus]

The press would probably have taken note of the same diligence being carried out in 2007 ... did they?

I've seen no evidence that the underground drains near the apartment and supermarket were ever thoroughly searched, not in May 2007, and not since.

The witness statement which said "I saw a manhole with a cover removed ... anyone could have fallen in ... concerned that she may have fallen down the manhole and was not seen." was not received until mid-Jan 2008.

[Brietta]

I've seen no evidence that the underground drains near the apartment and supermarket were ever thoroughly searched, not in May 2007, and not since.

The witness statement which said "I saw a manhole with a cover removed ... anyone could have fallen in ... concerned that she may have fallen down the manhole and was not seen." was not received until mid-Jan 2008.

Nonetheless it tends to show that all investigative possibilities were not carried through to a logical conclusion at the time.  The off chance of the disposal of remains  in a drain.  The woke and wandered theory resulting in accident, by rechecking the trenches which had been filled in using trained searchers and their dogs.

[pegasus]

Nonetheless it tends to show that all investigative possibilities were not carried through to a logical conclusion at the time.  The off chance of the disposal of remains  in a drain.  The woke and wandered theory resulting in accident, by rechecking the trenches which had been filled in using trained searchers and their dogs.

The 2 trenches which were open that night were carefully checked on the 4th before filling in. They were for electric water and telephone (not for storm drains or sewer drains). IMO the 2 trenches are of no interest because they are nothing to do with drains.

What is of interest is the manhole seen by a witness that night with its cover off. IMO as soon as that witness statement was recieved (17 Jan 2008) the Rebelo PJ and LP team should have re-contacted the witness and used a street map to identify the road junction, then used photos to identify the exact manhole.

[Brietta]

The 2 trenches which were open that night were carefully checked on the 4th before filling in. They were for electric water and telephone (not for storm drains or sewer drains). IMO the 2 trenches are of no interest because they are nothing to do with drains.

What is of interest is the manhole seen by a witness that night with its cover off. IMO as soon as that witness statement was recieved (17 Jan 2008) the Rebelo PJ and LP team should have re-contacted the witness and used a street map to identify the road junction, then used photos to identify the exact manhole.

I'm not quite sure why neither the Rex Morgan or Gail Cooper statements weren't on record until the 17th and 16th January 2008.  Both seemed to be pro-active and aware of the urgency of the situation.

We know the Smith Family statements were delayed because apparently the connection with Madeleine was not immediately apparent to them.
However, and particularly with regard to Mr Morgan who understood the immediacy of the situation ... the delay is quite remarkable.

[G-Unit]

I'm not quite sure why neither the Rex Morgan or Gail Cooper statements weren't on record until the 17th and 16th January 2008.  Both seemed to be pro-active and aware of the urgency of the situation.

We know the Smith Family statements were delayed because apparently the connection with Madeleine was not immediately apparent to them.
However, and particularly with regard to Mr Morgan who understood the immediacy of the situation ... the delay is quite remarkable.

Gail Cooper's first statement was made on 21st May 2007. I assume to UK police officers because it's in English with no translation. The question arising is was it passed on to the PJ?

[pegasus]

Gail Cooper's first statement was made on 21st May 2007. I assume to UK police officers because it's in English with no translation. The question arising is was it passed on to the PJ?

The question is, if a child does wake and wander onto the streets as MWT's theory states, how is it possible to then instantly disappear from the face of the earth?

G Cooper's statement has no relevance to that question.
The majority of R Morgan's statement has no relevance to it.
The bit that is relevant, because it gives a potential answer, is the last bit of the statement, about a manhole with cover removed.
Unfortunatly after police obtained this statement on 17 Jan 2008 they spent a lot of time following up the charity collecter bit, but seem to have completely ignored the completely seperate important manhole information at the end.

[G-Unit]

The question is, if a child does wake and wander onto the streets as MWT's theory states, how is it possible to then instantly disappear from the face of the earth?

G Cooper's statement has no relevance to that question.
The majority of R Morgan's statement has no relevance to it.
The bit that is relevant, because it gives a potential answer, is the last bit of the statement, about a manhole with cover removed.
Unfortunatly after police obtained this statement on 17 Jan 2008 they spent a lot of time following up the charity collecter bit, but seem to have completely ignored the completely seperate important manhole information at the end.

There were many people searching that night. Surely some of them looked in that hole/

[pegasus]

There were many people searching that night. Surely some of them looked in that hole/

You're good G-unit, yes if the manhole was open all night IMO someone else would have seen and mentioned it.

The witness says he saw a manhole with cover and frame removed (he saw them out of place at the side of the road), then next day saw frame and cover had been replaced. He worries that someone might have fallen into it while it was uncovered.

What if someone replaced the cover and frame early in the search?