Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.

[pegasus]

At the beginning of the GNR dogs' route, did they go into the block 5 car parking area, or did they stay on the path adjacent to the north side of block 5?

[misty]

At the beginning of the GNR dogs' route, did they go into the block 5 car parking area, or did they stay on the path adjacent to the north side of block 5?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PEDRO_ESTEVES.htm
snipped
 That after the dogs were given this scent from the towel and near apartment 5A of block 5, the first sniffer dog headed to the door of that apartment. Immediately afterward, he turned to block 5, using a circumvented route to block 5, and came to the road between this block and the leisure area of the resort (pools, restaurant, etc), and turned to the left, or around the referred to apartment and headed to the main road.
Having reached there, he crossed the road and next to a wall of block 6, crossed the road again, turned right and headed to the parking zone of the resort. More specifically, the dog went next to the light post and began smelling that location.

After searching that zone, he again crossed the road and headed toward the entrance to the pool and restaurant area, and smelled the door which was closed at that hour. He turned again to the parking zone and stopped or lost the scent at this point.
- When he effected the same operation with the second dog, in general, this dog took the same route and headed to the light post and showed interest there and ended by losing the scent at this point. It should be stated that the one difference is that this second dog did not head toward the entrance to the restaurant and pool zone.
 But he does state that the dogs followed a 'scent trail', a signal for the animal who was working. He is certain that they were not conditioned in any direction.
 None of the dogs used in this search action, after having smelled the towel, went into block 5 but headed to the zone which gives access to the road between the apartment and the leisure area. He states it should be noted that the second dog may have been conditioned by the original path taken by the first sniffer dog as he may have smelled the first dog's path taken.

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It's unclear which side of the wall the S&R dogs were when they were given the towel to scent. However, it does appear they made for the door of 5a & followed the enclosed path around the block.
I have a recollection of pictures of some dogs in block 5 car park but that was during daylight hours.
If Esteves' & Silva's statements are correct, then the diagram is wrong. The dogs went up the hill to the front of Block 6, which is the only direction of travel to turn right into either car park of Block 6.

[pegasus]

Thanks Misty so the GNR dogs probably went along the path adjacent to north side of block 5, not into carparking area of block 5. I think there was a gate on that path?

[pegasus]

IMO as soon as the GNR dogs emerged from the alleyway, they crossed straight (not diagonally) over Rua Martins to the pavement on the east side of Rua Martins (next to west end of block 6), then turned right and walked south along the pavement towards the lamppost.

Crossing the road straight like that when there is no traffic is IMO what a child would do.
An adult would cross it diagonally.

[misty]

Thanks Misty so the GNR dogs probably went along the path adjacent to north side of block 5, not into carparking area of block 5. I think there was a gate on that path?

I've just had a look on G/E & I couldn't see a gate. The path seems to be continuous to Bock 4, shaped in to the stairwell & back out again.  Where do you think the gate is located?

[misty]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6520.msg261068#msg261068

Photos of the alley between Blocks 4 & 5, courtesy of Shining.
Can't see a gate.

[pegasus]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6520.msg261068#msg261068

Photos of the alley between Blocks 4 & 5, courtesy of Shining.
Can't see a gate.

Gate photographed in Dec 2007
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/bw/img_0468.jpg
This is looking east along the north side of block 5, from its west end.
That is 5F main door on your right.
Did the GNR dogs' route go through this gate?

[misty]

Gate photographed in Dec 2007
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/bw/img_0468.jpg
This is looking east along the north side of block 5, from its west end.
That is 5F main door on your right.
Did the GNR dogs' route go through this gate?

Aaaaaargghh. Why couldn't you have just posted that last night??????
If the gate was there in May 2007 the dogs must have had to go through it to follow the pathway around unless they exited onto the car park before then. It doesn't state that in either of the handlers' statements though.
Would a child have opened that gate in the dark?


ETA There is what looks like a lock on that gate. Would that be to prevent people from using the pathway around 5F,  which leads to their garden, instead of the main walkway the other side of the wall?

[ShiningInLuz]

Aaaaaargghh. Why couldn't you have just posted that last night??????
If the gate was there in May 2007 the dogs must have had to go through it to follow the pathway around unless they exited onto the car park before then. It doesn't state that in either of the handlers' statements though.
Would a child have opened that gate in the dark?

ETA There is what looks like a lock on that gate. Would that be to prevent people from using the pathway around 5F,  which leads to their garden, instead of the main walkway the other side of the wall?

That gate is NOT between blocks 4 and 5, and there is no way to get round the side of block 5 from there (front door of 5F) unless one jumps the wall.

There isn't a gate between blocks 4 and 5.  Both blocks have unhindered access to the alley between the blocks.

As far as I am aware, that gate has no relevance to the MBM story whatsoever.  But as a side note, I do not think the gate is locked.  The clue is in the utility meter housings you can see on the wall of 5F.  Whoever reads those needs access.  The meter reader could be jumping the wall, but I doubt it.

To get to any of the ground floor apartments, or to the stairs/lift in block 5, one has to enter via a gap in the wall, located in the centre of the block.  The wall separates a pedestrian section from the car park.

Going out, the opposite is true.  Exit 5A, turn left on the pedestrian walkway, with the wall on your right, go to the centre of the block, go out through the gap into the car park.  Then if one is going between blocks 4 and 5, turn left, go to the alley between the blocks, turn left into it, and head south.

[misty]

That gate is NOT between blocks 4 and 5, and there is no way to get round the side of block 5 from there (front door of 5F) unless one jumps the wall.

There isn't a gate between blocks 4 and 5.  Both blocks have unhindered access to the alley between the blocks.

As far as I am aware, that gate has no relevance to the MBM story whatsoever.  But as a side note, I do not think the gate is locked.  The clue is in the utility meter housings you can see on the wall of 5F.  Whoever reads those needs access.  The meter reader could be jumping the wall, but I doubt it.

To get to any of the ground floor apartments, or to the stairs/lift in block 5, one has to enter via a gap in the wall, located in the centre of the block.  The wall separates a pedestrian section from the car park.

Going out, the opposite is true.  Exit 5A, turn left on the pedestrian walkway, with the wall on your right, go to the centre of the block, go out through the gap into the car park.  Then if one is going between blocks 4 and 5, turn left, go to the alley between the blocks, turn left into it, and head south.

Sorry, you've lost me  bit. How do you directly access the alley between 4 & 5 if that gate before 5F is locked?
From what I can make out, that pathway runs directly around the west end of 5F behind the alley boundary wall, & into the rear garden of 5F. There is a small gate at the far end of 5F giving those residents access into the alley.
Surely this is the same garden the McCann children ran along the front path & accessed earlier in the week?

[G-Unit]

You go along the car park outside the wall and turn left. I think I've attached a pic.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[ShiningInLuz]

Sorry, you've lost me  bit. How do you directly access the alley between 4 & 5 if that gate before 5F is locked?
From what I can make out, that pathway runs directly around the west end of 5F behind the alley boundary wall, & into the rear garden of 5F. There is a small gate at the far end of 5F giving those residents access into the alley.
Surely this is the same garden the McCann children ran along the front path & accessed earlier in the week?

You would need to look at the information attributed to Gerry to make up your mind on the following.

From memory, he says the children ran off to the west, as far as they could go, round the side, and they were in a back garden.  Again from memory, Gerry says he did not recognise, or similar, where that was.  I find it difficult to believe he did not recognise block 5.  So I have taken this to mean they went to the west end of block 4, and round the back of 4F.

There is also a gate (now) on the end of block 4 outside 4F, so the gate barrier issue remains.  However, the set-up is the same as 5F.  That is, to read the 3 utility meters on the wall of 4F, you have to go through the gate (or over the gate or over the wall) but I doubt that the gate is actually locked.

Since my memory is fallible, it depends on going back to what Gerry actually said.  My apologies if this has been posted already.  I cannot remember where this snippet is stored.

[misty]

Thank you both.

I think the pathway runs from 5A around to the back garden of 5F. Possibly the gate Pegasus posted in the above photo was there in May, but open. That was the way the children went imo.
To get to the public alleyway between blocks 4 & 5, you have to exit the pathway via the gap in the wall in front of the 5C/5D and continue through the car park before turning left into the alley. To continue to the far end of block 4 would have included alighting the 4 or 5 steps into block 4 carpark. I do not think the parents would have allowed the children to run ahead in a car zone.
I believe what Pegasus is driving at is the exact route followed by the S&R dogs. If they followed the pathway around block 5 there was at least one gate, maybe two, to pass through. They would not have walked the entire length of the public alley as shown on the diagram of the route both dogs took.
Was Madeleine familiar with the public routeway to the alley? I suggest not. Why would the family have circumvented the block to get to any of their destinations, which were all in the other direction? I don't think Madeleine had ever walked that entire route before, which adds weight to the doubts it was indeed her scent the dogs were following.

[G-Unit]

You would need to look at the information attributed to Gerry to make up your mind on the following.

From memory, he says the children ran off to the west, as far as they could go, round the side, and they were in a back garden.  Again from memory, Gerry says he did not recognise, or similar, where that was.  I find it difficult to believe he did not recognise block 5.  So I have taken this to mean they went to the west end of block 4, and round the back of 4F.

There is also a gate (now) on the end of block 4 outside 4F, so the gate barrier issue remains.  However, the set-up is the same as 5F.  That is, to read the 3 utility meters on the wall of 4F, you have to go through the gate (or over the gate or over the wall) but I doubt that the gate is actually locked.

Since my memory is fallible, it depends on going back to what Gerry actually said.  My apologies if this has been posted already.  I cannot remember where this snippet is stored.

That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left [went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges [fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

[misty]

That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left [went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges [fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

In what way does that statement disprove what I have just written? Are you saying that both Madeleine & the twins left the pathway & ran through 2 car parks totally unsupervised?