Author Topic: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.  (Read 262469 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1005 on: February 11, 2016, 04:26:50 AM »
So the McCanns moved into Jes Wilkins apartment 4G? Can you point it out on a pic of Block 4? Thanks.
No, that was 4o.
Mccanns had 4g and 4i (that's i for india).

Blocks G4 and G5 both have this layout
on each floor the apartments are listed east first, west last

liftengineroom = 5th floor
o p q r = splitlevel, 3rd & 4th floors
k l m n = 2nd floor
g h i j = 1st floor
a b c d e f = ground floor

Offline pegasus

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1006 on: February 11, 2016, 04:52:59 AM »
If the children ran to the end of block 4 and then into the gardens why did the dog go down the passageway between blocks 4 and 5?
From many trails of different ages, all made by the same person, a dog can select the most recent.

The GNR dogs were following the freshest (newest) detectable trail, which went between blocks 5 and 4.

The route described in a statement is different, it goes around west end of block 4 IMO, through end garden, it is described as being made on an earlier day. However, it is still interesting.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1007 on: February 11, 2016, 07:44:26 AM »
From many trails of different ages, all made by the same person, a dog can select the most recent.

The GNR dogs were following the freshest (newest) detectable trail, which went between blocks 5 and 4.

The route described in a statement is different, it goes around west end of block 4 IMO, through end garden, it is described as being made on an earlier day. However, it is still interesting.

Madeleine never went down that passageway between blocks 4 and 5 according to her parents.
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ferryman

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Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1008 on: February 11, 2016, 07:55:22 AM »
Madeleine never went down that passageway between blocks 4 and 5 according to her parents.

The Portuguese had air-scenting dogs.

Mark Harrison said so.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1009 on: February 11, 2016, 09:13:13 AM »
The Portuguese had air-scenting dogs.

Mark Harrison said so.

Harrison was examining searches carried out and advising on future searches. Therefore he concentrated on the dogs used in searching the urban areas, the beach and the open spaces. They were not given anything to sniff, as far as I know. The two dogs used to search around and inside blocks 4 and 5 were tracker dogs, they didn't join in the general searches. They followed a unique scent as opposed to any human scent. There would have been absolutely no point in using the dogs which didn't follow an individual scent.

At about 23.00 the extra teams that had been requested for reinforcement arrived (Officer Rosa with Oscar and Officer Martins with Fusco, both from the search and rescue unit and Officer Fernandes with Rex and Zarus from the tracking team).
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

Tracking is a technique in which dogs are trained to locate certain objects by using the object's scent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracking_(dog)

From their training and experience, search and rescue dogs can be classified broadly as either air scenting dogs or trailing (and tracking) dogs. They also can be classified according to whether they scent discriminate, and under what conditions they can work. Scent discriminating dogs have proven their ability to alert only on the scent of an individual person, after being given a sample of that person's scent. Non-scent discriminating dogs alert on or follow any scent of a given type, such as any human scent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_rescue_dog
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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1010 on: February 11, 2016, 12:24:44 PM »
Madeleine never went down that passageway between blocks 4 and 5 according to her parents.

Which passageway? The only one between the blocks 5 & 4 was the normal kids route not the car park to the road.

That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left [went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges [fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception. GM 10 May
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1011 on: February 11, 2016, 01:02:16 PM »
Which passageway? The only one between the blocks 5 & 4 was the normal kids route not the car park to the road.

That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left [went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges [fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception. GM 10 May

They went left out of the front door once, as described above. Usually, according to Gerry, Kate and the children entered and left the apartment by the patio doors. That route leads to the gate on the street. No way did they use that passageway normally.

Following this they returned to the apartment, the deponent opened the main door with his key and, then, the rear door through which KATE and the children entered.

They all left by the main door due to the carriages, went around to the right, down the street of the supermarket and went to the beach

Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.

 the deponent left by the front door and the rest of the family by the rear door that, once again, he shut and locked from the inside.

After 17H30 they went to the apartment, the deponent having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. KATE and the children entered by the rear door, after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1012 on: February 11, 2016, 02:19:23 PM »
How can they leave the back way when they locked the apartment on 3 May? The left by the key door according to Kate and came back that way i.e. Madeleine's last known route using the passageway. The alive scent dogs weren't interested in the back way. I for one don't believe that he left Kate carrying 3 small kids down steep dangerous steps. That child gate was there for good reason.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 02:23:03 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1013 on: February 11, 2016, 07:05:25 PM »
How can they leave the back way when they locked the apartment on 3 May? The left by the key door according to Kate and came back that way i.e. Madeleine's last known route using the passageway. The alive scent dogs weren't interested in the back way. I for one don't believe that he left Kate carrying 3 small kids down steep dangerous steps. That child gate was there for good reason.

I don't understand why you want to insist they used that route. Why would they leave the Tapas, walk up the road, turn left down the passageway and walk the length of Block 5, then turn right and walk between the two blocks, right again into block 5 car park and walk along to their front door? It makes no sense. They either walked up and went into the gate as they did when checking or they walked right up to the top of the road and turned left, then left again into the car park and went to the front door. All the families used that route.

Kate says in her book, Chapter 4;

After the first couple of days we barely used the front door, coming and going through the patio doors and up and down the steps.

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Alfred R Jones

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Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1014 on: February 11, 2016, 07:09:34 PM »
Can I nominate this thread for the most tedious thread on the forum award?  @)(++(*
Can someone tell me what you're arguing about, save me wading through reams of boring detail...

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1015 on: February 11, 2016, 07:41:47 PM »
Can I nominate this thread for the most tedious thread on the forum award?  @)(++(*
Can someone tell me what you're arguing about, save me wading through reams of boring detail...

No pain no gain Alfred.
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Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1016 on: February 11, 2016, 08:03:11 PM »
No pain no gain Alfred.
What have you (we) gained so far then?

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1017 on: February 11, 2016, 08:26:34 PM »
Can I nominate this thread for the most tedious thread on the forum award?  @)(++(*
Can someone tell me what you're arguing about, save me wading through reams of boring detail...

Probably having an arcane discussion about woofers; whingeing about Sr Amaral's incompetence/criminal record/swarthy appearance and long lunch breaks; having a pop at the Drs McCann; insulting posters.
Take your pick most threads follow that MO eventually 8(0(*
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1018 on: February 11, 2016, 08:33:06 PM »
I don't understand why you want to insist they used that route. Why would they leave the Tapas, walk up the road, turn left down the passageway and walk the length of Block 5, then turn right and walk between the two blocks, right again into block 5 car park and walk along to their front door? It makes no sense. They either walked up and went into the gate as they did when checking or they walked right up to the top of the road and turned left, then left again into the car park and went to the front door. All the families used that route.

Kate says in her book, Chapter 4;

After the first couple of days we barely used the front door, coming and going through the patio doors and up and down the steps.

Kate was questioned hard in September and revealed this about 3 May.

"After breakfast they got dressed and left the apartment by the main door. All children went walking. The veranda door was closed and locked."

"They entered the apartment by the main door, with the key. She does not know if it was locked, and presumes it was Gerry who opened it. At lunch time they also entered by the same door."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

So they enter all day with the key then leave it unlocked at night with their kids inside. None of it adds up.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1019 on: February 11, 2016, 08:39:29 PM »
Kate was questioned hard in September and revealed this about 3 May.

"After breakfast they got dressed and left the apartment by the main door. All children went walking. The veranda door was closed and locked."

"They entered the apartment by the main door, with the key. She does not know if it was locked, and presumes it was Gerry who opened it. At lunch time they also entered by the same door."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

So they enter all day with the key then leave it unlocked at night with their kids inside. None of it adds up.

Agreed. That behaviour is not rational.