Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.

[pegasus]

Convention, or law, in Portugal.  If a property is unfenced, anyone can walk on it and take, for example, some types of fruit from it or hunt on it.  If fenced off, neither of these activities is permitted.

There are exceptions in both fenced and unfenced, but you don't want chapter and verse.

The gate signifies that public access is not welcome and that the territory within 'belongs' to 5F and is private.

The gate does not need to be locked to signify this.  It merely needs to be closed.

My driveway gates are open at this point in time.  Technically, this means it is OK for people to come onto my property and take my .....

.... fallen pine cones, which are used here to get a winter fire going in the wood burner.

As it happens, most people stop where the gates are, even if the gates are open.  That is why we seldom shut them.   ...(snip)

An example is the charity collection at a house on Rua Ramalhete. The collector opens the unlocked gate at the road, walks up the long drive, and goes up to the house to talk to the occupants
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/REX-MORGAN.htm

In England if you have an unlocked garden gate and a path leading to your front door there is "implied right of access" so anyone may walk through the gate to the door. You can permanently withdraw that implied right from any nuisance company like the *** by sending a short correctly worded letter.

[pegasus]

and what relevance does any of that have to the McCann case

Gates have a great deal to do with it Davel and here are four of them.
1. The 5A stair gate designed so that children up to 24 months can't open it, but certainly not designed to prevent a 47.5 month old from opening it.
2. The 5A garden gate which any toddler could open.
3 & 4. A documented event on a previous day when the missing child without adult help entered a garden, not 5A, through a gate, and left that garden probably through a different gate.

[ShiningInLuz]

Is central heating common in Luz, SIL? If so, what sort would it be? If not, would people have something else like oil filled radiators or electric fires? I'm mostly interested in relation to the holiday apartments.

In relation to the OC holiday homes, I would think the answer is probably no.  Block 6 has a massive propane storage unit outside.  Block 4 and block 5 appear to be older, and I can see no suggestion of gas storage.

Block 5 may well have gas hobs, common here, typically powered by a small gas cylinder under the kitchen units.  We have a gas hob (and water and CH) powered by a large gas cylinder, which for safeties sake is stored well away from the house.

This may be a legal requirement (big cylinder away from house), but I do not know.

Let me move on to heating, and the potential risk of fire, which is what I think you are actually interested in.

I have not yet heard of any private dwelling being set on fire in the Algarve.  We actually have a wooden ceiling, wooden units in the kitchen, and a wooden dining set.  After that, it is non flammable concrete, marble, tiles and plaster.  If you want to set my house on fire, try a big jerrycan of petrol and a blowtorch.  My prediction is no, not going to happen.

There has been one case of a commercial site in Portimão being hit by lightning, and burning most of it down, since we arrived here.

The fires here are mainly in the countryside.  The vegetation grows, then dries out, then gets set off into a blaze by some incident.

Was 5A a fire hazard?  I think not, but I have not been inside 5A, so I am expressing a personal opinion.

[misty]

In relation to the OC holiday homes, I would think the answer is probably no.  Block 6 has a massive propane storage unit outside.  Block 4 and block 5 appear to be older, and I can see no suggestion of gas storage.

Block 5 may well have gas hobs, common here, typically powered by a small gas cylinder under the kitchen units.  We have a gas hob (and water and CH) powered by a large gas cylinder, which for safeties sake is stored well away from the house.

This may be a legal requirement (big cylinder away from house), but I do not know.

Let me move on to heating, and the potential risk of fire, which is what I think you are actually interested in.

I have not yet heard of any private dwelling being set on fire in the Algarve.  We actually have a wooden ceiling, wooden units in the kitchen, and a wooden dining set.  After that, it is non flammable concrete, marble, tiles and plaster.  If you want to set my house on fire, try a big jerrycan of petrol and a blowtorch.  My prediction is no, not going to happen.

There has been one case of a commercial site in Portimão being hit by lightning, and burning most of it down, since we arrived here.

The fires here are mainly in the countryside.  The vegetation grows, then dries out, then gets set off into a blaze by some incident.

Was 5A a fire hazard?  I think not, but I have not been inside 5A, so I am expressing a personal opinion.

Thank you for your answer re. post in Luz. It is interesting that the Post Office is situated just along the road from the 24hr OC reception so I guess the street is rather busy during the PO's opening hours.

Regarding the heating - perhaps you or another poster knows what all the concrete turrets on the roof of Blocks 4 & 5 are for?

[G-Unit]

In relation to the OC holiday homes, I would think the answer is probably no.  Block 6 has a massive propane storage unit outside.  Block 4 and block 5 appear to be older, and I can see no suggestion of gas storage.

Block 5 may well have gas hobs, common here, typically powered by a small gas cylinder under the kitchen units.  We have a gas hob (and water and CH) powered by a large gas cylinder, which for safeties sake is stored well away from the house.

This may be a legal requirement (big cylinder away from house), but I do not know.

Let me move on to heating, and the potential risk of fire, which is what I think you are actually interested in.

I have not yet heard of any private dwelling being set on fire in the Algarve.  We actually have a wooden ceiling, wooden units in the kitchen, and a wooden dining set.  After that, it is non flammable concrete, marble, tiles and plaster.  If you want to set my house on fire, try a big jerrycan of petrol and a blowtorch.  My prediction is no, not going to happen.

There has been one case of a commercial site in Portimão being hit by lightning, and burning most of it down, since we arrived here.

The fires here are mainly in the countryside.  The vegetation grows, then dries out, then gets set off into a blaze by some incident.

Was 5A a fire hazard?  I think not, but I have not been inside 5A, so I am expressing a personal opinion.

 

I was actually interested in heating in G5A, as someone suggested there would be some central heating. 

[ShiningInLuz]

Thank you for your answer re. post in Luz. It is interesting that the Post Office is situated just along the road from the 24hr OC reception so I guess the street is rather busy during the PO's opening hours.

Regarding the heating - perhaps you or another poster knows what all the concrete turrets on the roof of Blocks 4 & 5 are for?

Without claiming certainty ...

These would be required for oven vents or fire vents.  Please consider yourself lucky.  I have now been out in the cold, dark and damp to check on our current situation.

Our oven vent (gas hob with air extractor) vents to a hard-to-see metal grille on the kitchen wall.  Personally, I cannot see anything like that on block 5, though I would presume oven air extractors were in use.

Our fire (wood burning) vents through a 'concrete turret' on the roof.  I think this is normally called a chimney in English.  Not being facetious here.  Our wood burner does a swift turn up into the lounge wall, which would make an obvious point of exit immediately outside our lounge.  Instead, the chimney goes up through the master bedroom, then up through the top of the house.

Back to 5A and firetrap, should that be what you are exploring.  Is there any evidence of a fire requiring a chimney in 5A?

Think carefully before you answer.  I may have to regale you with the tales of how we get wood for wood-burning stoves out here, and trust me, it is boing.

[ShiningInLuz]

 

I was actually interested in heating in G5A, as someone suggested there would be some central heating.

I have never been inside 5A.

Based on the photos of 5A there are no radiators, an essential component of central heating.

One also needs space for a power source, typically gas, and a boiler.  5A does not appear to have this.

Or a wood burner and chimney.

I have been living in Portugal for 5 years now.  In multiple places, some with CH and some not.  For example, more modern places use air con that heats or cools, as per the season.

My new neighbour is out and about getting his new home fixed up as he likes it.  He is in shorts, sandals, and sporting a very marked suntan.  Me, I am finding it grey, wet, windy, and layers of clothes.  Not English style, but Portuguese style.  I have no heating on.  It is not warm.  It is not cold here.

If the idea is still - was 5A a potential fire source, my input would be this was highly unlikely.  However, I have no idea how the McCanns evaluated this concept, so I would prefer to not speculate on that.

After all, I am uncertain of heating within 5A.  As are others on the forum.  Should the McCanns have known more than we know now?

[G-Unit]

It's fine, that's enough thanks. The discussion was about the temperature in the children's bedroom if a window was open on 3rd May for 45 minutes. Someone assumed a) that there would have been central heating and b) it would have been turned on.

[misty]

I have never been inside 5A.

Based on the photos of 5A there are no radiators, an essential component of central heating.

One also needs space for a power source, typically gas, and a boiler.  5A does not appear to have this.

Or a wood burner and chimney.

I have been living in Portugal for 5 years now.  In multiple places, some with CH and some not.  For example, more modern places use air con that heats or cools, as per the season.

My new neighbour is out and about getting his new home fixed up as he likes it.  He is in shorts, sandals, and sporting a very marked suntan.  Me, I am finding it grey, wet, windy, and layers of clothes.  Not English style, but Portuguese style.  I have no heating on.  It is not warm.  It is not cold here.

If the idea is still - was 5A a potential fire source, my input would be this was highly unlikely.  However, I have no idea how the McCanns evaluated this concept, so I would prefer to not speculate on that.

After all, I am uncertain of heating within 5A.  As are others on the forum.  Should the McCanns have known more than we know now?

Looking at the photo of the kitchen, there is what appears to be a reasonable sized boiler in the top r/h corner. It is too small & incorrectly placed to be a hot water tank. IMO it is a conventional combi gas boiler which is flued up through the building out onto the roof. It is a hot-air system with the heat coming out through the vents seen on the walls in the interior rooms. Hot air heating is more than efficient, overpowering almost, so I doubt the apartment was cold.
I stand to be corrected by any resident gch installers, though.

[ShiningInLuz]

Looking at the photo of the kitchen, there is what appears to be a reasonable sized boiler in the top r/h corner. It is too small & incorrectly placed to be a hot water tank. IMO it is a conventional combi gas boiler which is flued up through the building out onto the roof. It is a hot-air system with the heat coming out through the vents seen on the walls in the interior rooms. Hot air heating is more than efficient, overpowering almost, so I doubt the apartment was cold.
I stand to be corrected by any resident gch installers, though.

I agree that does appear to be a boiler, positioned over what looks like a standard stop cock for water, positioned under the boiler.

So far, this gives me, a small boiler, no radiators, a requirement for a small bottle of gas (about the size of one kitchen unit).  This is sounding a bit like Poker, which I have never played in my life before.

What happens now?  Can one stick, twist or raise?  Who gets to go next?

[misty]

I agree that does appear to be a boiler, positioned over what looks like a standard stop cock for water, positioned under the boiler.

So far, this gives me, a small boiler, no radiators, a requirement for a small bottle of gas (about the size of one kitchen unit).  This is sounding a bit like Poker, which I have never played in my life before.

What happens now?  Can one stick, twist or raise?  Who gets to go next?

There are 3 utility hatches outside the door.
I believe the complex was UK built.
So - mains gas? I see it as the only explanation for the large flues on the roof.

[G-Unit]

I agree that does appear to be a boiler, positioned over what looks like a standard stop cock for water, positioned under the boiler.

So far, this gives me, a small boiler, no radiators, a requirement for a small bottle of gas (about the size of one kitchen unit).  This is sounding a bit like Poker, which I have never played in my life before.

What happens now?  Can one stick, twist or raise?  Who gets to go next?

I think I'll fold, I know little about such things. BTW poker terms are fold, call or raise. You seem to be playing Blackjack (or 21's)  ha ha.

[ShiningInLuz]

There are 3 utility hatches outside the door.
I believe the complex was UK built.
So - mains gas? I see it as the only explanation for the large flues on the roof.

Might be, but highly unlikely.

I don't think who built the complex is relevant, in this respect.

I am not aware of anyone on mains gas, in Luz, in the sense you mean.  Have a look at Streetview or Google Earth of that whacking great thing in front of block 6.  That is a gigantic (OK very big) gas cylinder.  Why stick in a gas cylinder if mains is available?

Personally, it looks as if the upper floors have wood burners.  I definitely do not know for certain.

[ShiningInLuz]

I think I'll fold, I know little about such things. BTW poker terms are fold, call or raise. You seem to be playing Blackjack (or 21's)  ha ha.

I did make clear I had not played Poker in my life.  Blackjack I have heard of, but I cannot recall what it is about.  21. Is that a casino game, in which case I'm out.  Or is there a solitaire version, in which case I might well have played it when you were a stripling.

[pegasus]

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/z/Apartment-plan.jpg
In child bedroom there is a walled in vertical cavity for utilities in that corner of the room look at this plan