Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.

[Robittybob1]

Not absurd.

Evidently though, you condone the McCann's and the rest of the group's actions in leaving their children unattended, with infrequent and short checks.

You would need the PJ to apply that ruling across the board and it maybe that many tourists are doing this while in Portugal.  Countries will support their tourist trade and they are not going to rock the boat just to set an example.

[Miss Taken Identity]

This is a rental situation so one should expect the facilities to be safe and up to the standards.

Expect a gate to open and close, well from the mothers evidence it did open and close!  However, who was the last person to use the gate and did they close it? That person would have something to answer.

Now lets look at who would be responsible for a child at the beach  walks into the sea unattended and drowns... ahhh the seas fault no doubt!

[Miss Taken Identity]

You would need the PJ to apply that ruling across the board and it maybe that many tourists are doing this while in Portugal.  Countries will support their tourist trade and they are not going to rock the boat just to set an example.

The Tapas group gambled with their childrens saftey- one of them lost. That is the bottom line! Gate or no gate not even worth considering as an accessory to  negligent parents.

[Robittybob1]

Expect a gate to open and close, well from the mothers evidence it did open and close!  However, who was the last person to use the gate and did they close it? That person would have something to answer.

Now lets look at who would be responsible for a child at the beach  walks into the sea unattended and drowns... ahhh the seas fault no doubt!

Have you got an example where the parents were charged when a child drowned in the sea?  I can't think of any around here except when the excursion was a school trip or a adventure tourism situation.

[Benice]

To begin with it was established by the PJ authorities that the McCanns childcare arrangements did not meet the criterion necessary to accuse them of abandonment. 

Madeleine was not the first child to go missing at that complex - the fact that they had a Missing Child procedure proves that.   None of the parents of those missing children have ever been charged with anything.

It has been an accepted custom and practice for decades that people on holiday do make arrangements to leave their children alone while they go to dinner - or a bar or whatever.   No-one has ever been prosecuted for doing that.

What about parents who use baby alarms when they go out and do not check on their children at all?  Surely if anyone fits the criterion for abandonment - they come very close.  None of them have been prosecuted.

MW along with other tour operators, hoteliers etc offered the Listening Service to their clients as an extra service for them to take up if required.   Surely this must mean they are guilty of inciting the abandonment of children at those venues?   The fact that it was not offered at PdL is irrelevant to the principle.

The whole idea of the McCanns being charged with abandonment in these holiday circumstances is preposterous.   

IMO

[Robittybob1]

The Tapas group gambled with their childrens saftey- one of them lost. That is the bottom line! Gate or no gate not even worth considering as an accessory to  negligent parents.

Personally I think if she woke and wandered she went out via the front door (bungled burglary) not the sliding door and two gates. 
But in reality I don't favour that scenario at all.

[stephen25000]

'Absurd' hardly seems to cover it.

To begin with it was established by the PJ authorities that the McCanns childcare arrangements did not meet the criterion necessary to accuse them of abandonment. 

Madeleine was not the first child to go missing at that complex - the fact that they had a Missing Child procedure proves that.   None of the parents of those missing children have ever been charged with anything.

It has been an accepted custom and practice for decades that people on holiday do make arrangements to leave their children alone while they go to dinner - or a bar or whatever.   No-one has ever been prosecuted for doing that.

What about parents who use baby alarms when they go out and do not check on their children at all?  Surely if anyone fits the criterion for abandonment - they come very close.  None of them have been prosecuted.

MW along with other tour operators, hoteliers etc offered the Listening Service to their clients as an extra service for them to take up if required.   Surely this must mean they are guilty of inciting the abandonment of children at those venues?   The fact that it was not offered at PdL is irrelevant to the principle.

The whole idea of the McCanns being charged with abandonment in these holiday circumstances is preposterous.   

IMO

Wrong Benice, yet again.

Read what the ex-Minister said.

If the McCann's had been Portuguese, they would have been investigated and all too likely prosecuted.

[Robittybob1]

Wrong Benice, yet again.

Read what the ex-Minister said.

If the McCann's had been Portuguese, they would have been investigated and all too likely prosecuted.

Does that mean the Portuguese were applying a double standard?  One for the tourists and one for their own populace.
Your quote seems to confirm a double standard.

[Benice]

Wrong Benice, yet again.

Read what the ex-Minister said.

If the McCann's had been Portuguese, they would have been investigated and all too likely prosecuted.

Tell me Benice, if the McCann's had done what they did in the UK, would they have got away with it ?

The ex-minister was obviously unaware of the following which you also apparently missed in my post.

It has been an accepted custom and practice for decades that people on holiday do make arrangements to leave their children alone while they go to dinner - or a bar or whatever.   No-one has ever been prosecuted for doing that.

What are your opinions on the other points I made in my post?

[stephen25000]

The ex-minister was obviously unaware of the following which you also apparently missed in my post.

It has been an accepted custom and practice for decades that people on holiday do make arrangements to leave their children alone while they go to dinner - or a bar or whatever.   No-one has ever been prosecuted for doing that.

What are your opinions on the other points I made in my post?

What accepted practice ?

It is not acceptable.

 Pereira  was 100% right.

[John]

My experience of determined 4-year-olds is that a baby gate is no impediment to them as they simply climb over it.  The pedestrian gate at the bottom of the steps was an even lesser obstacle as it didn't lock.  And since the patio door itself was unlocked there is no reason whatsoever why Madeleine couldn't have got out on her own if distressed or have I missed something?

[slartibartfast]

The ex-minister was obviously unaware of the following which you also apparently missed in my post.

It has been an accepted custom and practice for decades that people on holiday do make arrangements to leave their children alone while they go to dinner - or a bar or whatever.   No-one has ever been prosecuted for doing that.

What are your opinions on the other points I made in my post?

The PT were persuaded that it was a normal British practice and some here seem to be continuing to promote that view. The rest of the UK don't really want to tarred with that brush.

[Benice]

What accepted practice ?

It is not acceptable.

 Pereira  was 100% right.

Not according to the PT authorities who stated that the McCanns arrangements did not constitute abandonment.

[stephen25000]

Not according to the PT authorities who stated that the McCanns arrangements did not constitute abandonment.

Read, why they got away with it.

They thought it normal British behaviour.

IT ISN'T.

[Mr Gray]

Read, why they got away with it.

They thought it normal British behaviour.

IT ISN'T.

read the archiving despatch and you might understand why they were not prosecuted