Author Topic: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.  (Read 262491 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

I didn't raise the subject of the open window, I commented because it was suggested as some sort of evidence;

"If you believe Kate and the open window ... and I do ... it blows the 'woke and wandered' scenario out of the water."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1620.msg586880#msg586880

It wasn't possible for your witness to see the window, given the timeframe it was closed before she arrived in 5A.

Kates statement that the window was open is evidence... You seemed to think it wasn't. We don't have to prove it was open to show the statement is evidence

Offline G-Unit

Kates statement that the window was open is evidence... You seemed to think it wasn't. We don't have to prove it was open to show the statement is evidence

Some are using it as proof that woke and wandered didn't happen.
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Offline Mr Gray

Some are using it as proof that woke and wandered didn't happen.

Cite.... You are making things up... No one's mentioned proof
... It's evidence

Woke and wandered could well have happened... Even with an open window. However archiving report said w and w was highly unlikely... We don't know on what basis they said that
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 12:25:47 PM by Davel »

Offline pathfinder73

The evidence depends on who opened the window.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Venturi Swirl

I didn't raise the subject of the open window, I commented because it was suggested as some sort of evidence;

"If you believe Kate and the open window ... and I do ... it blows the 'woke and wandered' scenario out of the water."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1620.msg586880#msg586880

It wasn't possible for your witness to see the window, given the timeframe it was closed before she arrived in 5A.
She said she saw it open.  You said there was no evidence that it was. There is.  Deal with it.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Some are using it as proof that woke and wandered didn't happen.
Who is?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Gray

The evidence depends on who opened the window.

Why would Kate open the window.... And then close it... If she opened it wouldn't she want everyone to see it open

Offline pathfinder73

Maybe she closed it because of the twins. Maybe she panicked as seen in that state by others moments later. As this case obviously lacks witnesses (Madeleine last seen at 17:30 by an independent witness) it was always going to rely on circumstantial evidence to solve it.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Maybe she closed it because of the twins. Maybe she panicked as seen in that state by others moments later. As this case obviously lacks witnesses (Madeleine last seen at 17:30 by an independent witness) it was always going to rely on circumstantial evidence to solve it.

Madeleine may very well have been seen being carried from the apartment at around 9.15pm.  Had the witness enjoyed the same benefit of hindsight of which many aficionados of Madeleine's case appear to have an expertise, she would have screamed for assistance from Jerry, who she had just passed and given pursuit herself.

Not having advantage of prescience and despite the sighting giving her pause for thought she continued on her way entirely unaware of the significance of what she had seen.  Had she been a couple of minutes earlier and was able to view the whole scenario of the unknown child carrier leaving the environs of block five and being close enough to recognise the child being carried, that would probably have put an entirely different complexion on the event ... and you and I would not have been having this conversation.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1509 on: June 12, 2020, 12:18:59 AM »
Well said Brietta -  Were I opening that window, I would release the catch (press the button in? using the thumb of my left hand) and slide it to the side using the same hand on the handle and leaving fingerprints behind.

If trying to stage an abduction,  I would then wipe my finger prints away.


An abductor would wear gloves!

Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1510 on: June 12, 2020, 03:25:34 AM »
She said she saw it open.  You said there was no evidence that it was. There is.  Deal with it.

Do you seriously believe that an abductor climbed in or out of the window in the bedroom?

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1511 on: June 12, 2020, 03:40:26 AM »
Madeleine may very well have been seen being carried from the apartment at around 9.15pm.  Had the witness enjoyed the same benefit of hindsight of which many aficionados of Madeleine's case appear to have an expertise, she would have screamed for assistance from Jerry, who she had just passed and given pursuit herself.

Not having advantage of prescience and despite the sighting giving her pause for thought she continued on her way entirely unaware of the significance of what she had seen.  Had she been a couple of minutes earlier and was able to view the whole scenario of the unknown child carrier leaving the environs of block five and being close enough to recognise the child being carried, that would probably have put an entirely different complexion on the event ... and you and I would not have been having this conversation.

But is there anyone that still believes Tanner saw someone carrying MM away? Even the joke (imo)  Crimewatch of October 2013 and OG "are almost certain now" that Tanner saw someone that "was not the abductor." I do believe the line "the e-fits are clear" is spot on when they show Smithman though!!

Offline Brietta

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1512 on: June 12, 2020, 04:51:10 AM »
Do you seriously believe that an abductor climbed in or out of the window in the bedroom?

The window was open and it is known that burglars came and went using windows in Praia da luz.  Mrs Fenn disturbed a burglar doing just that in the flat immediately above the McCann apartment.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1513 on: June 12, 2020, 05:21:30 AM »
But is there anyone that still believes Tanner saw someone carrying MM away? Even the joke (imo)  Crimewatch of October 2013 and OG "are almost certain now" that Tanner saw someone that "was not the abductor." I do believe the line "the e-fits are clear" is spot on when they show Smithman though!!

For many years Jane Tanner was labelled a liar because she knew what she had seen and bore witness to it.

How on earth can you possibly know anything at all about the efits you think might be 'Smithman' when Smiths didn't see the man's face.
Snip
— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.  Martin Smith
— Questioned, states that probably she would not be able to recognise either the individual or the child.  Aoife Smith
— States that it would not be possible to recognize the individual in person or via photograph.  Peter Smith
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Mark Williams-Thomas suggests Madeleine woke, wandered and was abducted.
« Reply #1514 on: June 12, 2020, 07:24:17 AM »
Do you seriously believe that an abductor climbed in or out of the window in the bedroom?
I am open minded about it.  It’s not an impossibility, burglars have been known to come and go via windows before without leaving swathes of evidence, especially ones that are well practiced. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly