Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?

[Eleanor]

Police in Australia have drained a septic tank in their search for William Tyrell.  I imagine if a child's body had been put in one it would take draining to enable it to be located.

Yes, it would have to be drained.  But that's not difficult.  Our local farmer does it.  It takes about twenty minutes.  And the smell would cover any odour.

[pegasus]

In some streets I see two lines of round covers, here is a pair, I assume one is foul water drain and the other is rain water drain.

[sadie]

In some streets I see two lines of round covers, here is a pair, I assume one is foul water drain and the other is rain water drain.

Ermm?    Cant see what you are talking about Pegasus.

[pegasus]

Ermm?    Cant see what you are talking about Pegasus.

click to enlarge. two round covers, one for the foulwater drain, the other for the rainwater drain

[Lace]

Surely they would have thought about septic tanks wouldn't they?    The police I mean.

[Angelo222]

Surely they would have thought about septic tanks wouldn't they?    The police I mean.

An impossible task Lace.  In addition the surrounding countryside is pockmarked with natural wells and crevices in the rock structure which would be impossible to explore properly.

[sadie]

click to enlarge. two round covers, one for the foulwater drain, the other for the rainwater drain

Thanks Peg

Was looking at the curved kerb for some reason  %&5%£ and missed the drain covers completely

[pegasus]

15VOLUMEXVa_Page_4013
"I would further like to say that in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine, I saw a manhole with a cover removed. This manhole is situated on a junction of a road that runs parallel to the supermarket near to the Tapas Bar and the McCanns apartment. The cover along with the surround that been removed and placed to the side of the road. The road is lit by street lighting but I believe you would not have seen the hole and anyone could have fallen in. I returned the next day and noticed that the cover had been replaced. I am concerned that she may have fallen down the manhole and was not seen."

[pegasus]

Re the open manhole. The cover and the frame had been removed and placed at the side of the road.
To remove the frame requires removing part of the road surface. So it was not removed for theft or prank. The obvious explanation is that the road surface was being replaced. The manhole cover with frame would be removed so that the sand/gravel lower layers of the new surface could be laid. IIRC in 2007 in Luz a part of the town centre (see map) just south of the big supermarket was being recobbled, so that is probably where this open manhole was? DW rog mentions this area IIRC?
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00645/news-graphics-2007-_645170a.jpg
IMO there are 2 junctions which fit witness statement and resurfacing work, possibly B is more likely than A IMO. This is partly guesswork, and probably nothing to do with the case.

[pegasus]

Probably irrelevant, but why not ask witness: which manhole? One UK visit, streetview, easy.

[Brietta]

Probably irrelevant, but why not ask witness: which manhole? One UK visit, streetview, easy.

I would suggest this was one of the  diligences carried out by Operation Grange and\or the Polícia Judiciária prior to the case being reopened independently of each other ... so it is a base which has probably been covered.

[pegasus]

I would suggest this was one of the  diligences carried out by Operation Grange and\or the Polícia Judiciária prior to the case being reopened independently of each other ... so it is a base which has probably been covered.

Yes it is possible that they may have asked the witness already, I don't know. IMO it is possible that police were so concentrated on the charity collection in this statement, that they may have completely overlooked the mention of an open manhole?

BTW is there a statistical tendency in some wandering cases to walk downhill?

Going downhill begins by going south along Rua Martins. Just before the supermarket there is a choice, either continue south along Rua Martins, or fork right onto a path towards supermarket car park, and both choices appear IMO to be equally downhill.

The first choice (stay on R Martins), when continued by always choosing the most downhill option, passes through junction B.

The second choice (fork right to supermarket car park), when continued by always choosing the most downhill option, leads along a path around the west side of the supermarket building, and then passes through junction A.

[Brietta]

Yes it is possible that they may have asked the witness for already, I don't know. IMO it is possible that police were so concentrated on the charity collection in this statement, that they may have completely overlooked the mention of an open manhole?

BTW is there a statistical tendency in some wandering cases to walk downhill?

Going downhill begins by going south along Rua Martins. Just before the supermarket there is a choice, either continue south along Rua Martins, or fork right onto a path towards supermarket car park, and both choices appear IMO to be equally downhill.

The first choice (stay on R Martins), when continued by always choosing the most downhill option, passes through junction B.

The second choice (fork right to supermarket car park), when continued by always choosing the most downhill option, leads along a path around the west side of the supermarket building, and then passes through junction A.

A downhill trajectory is, I think an opinion of experts who have discussed the case; in at least one instance on video it was said that had Madeleine wandered she would have headed towards the lights at the entrance to the tapas restaurant.

[jassi]

Yes it is possible that they may have asked the witness for already, I don't know. IMO it is possible that police were so concentrated on the charity collection in this statement, that they may have completely overlooked the mention of an open manhole?

BTW is there a statistical tendency in some wandering cases to walk downhill?

Going downhill begins by going south along Rua Martins. Just before the supermarket there is a choice, either continue south along Rua Martins, or fork right onto a path towards supermarket car park, and both choices appear IMO to be equally downhill.

The first choice (stay on R Martins), when continued by always choosing the most downhill option, passes through junction B.

The second choice (fork right to supermarket car park), when continued by always choosing the most downhill option, leads along a path around the west side of the supermarket building, and then passes through junction A.

I don't know about statistics, but it seems unlikely that anyone would travel uphill, unless they had some specific destination in mind.

[pegasus]

Witness description (a junction on a road which runs parallel with the supermarket) fits about a dozen junctions or more. Two of those junctions were in the areas being resurfaced with cobbles in 2007 and so they are more likely to have had a complete cover including frame removed. Both those junctions A and B are on downhill routes from n end of R Martins.