Reopening the case following the Archive Report.

[Carana]

So they had 20 days in which to ask for an 'instruction' phase to be opened. Once that deadline passed they had another 20 days to request hierarchically that the investigation should continue. Had they offered to do the reconstruction I think that would have been carried out.

I haven't found what the deadline was for requesting an instruction phase. It's whenever that deadline had passed that there were 20 days to pinpoint what exactly the PJ ought to have checked but hadn't.

ETA: Yes, the deadline was 20 days to request that the case go to instruction (which is when the instruction judge and the other bods get together to see if there was enough evidence to lay charges).

[G-Unit]

I haven't found what the deadline was for requesting an instruction phase. It's whenever that deadline had passed that there were 20 days to pinpoint what exactly the PJ ought to have checked but hadn't.

ETA: Yes, the deadline was 20 days to request that the case go to instruction (which is when the instruction judge and the other bods get together to see if there was enough evidence to lay charges).

I can understand why they just gave up and went home after being made arguidos, whether they were innocent or guilty. I can't understand why, from the safety of the UK, they didn't ask for the investigation to continue. They had more than nine months to make a case for it.

[Carana]

So they had 20 days in which to ask for an 'instruction' phase to be opened. Once that deadline passed they had another 20 days to request hierarchically that the investigation should continue. Had they offered to do the reconstruction I think that would have been carried out.

That's not my understanding at all.

Mine is that the situation was that the prosecutor had weighed up what was in the files and had decided that there wasn't enough evidence to charge anyone.

The McCanns could have argued that there was enough evidence to charge X on the basis of what was already in the files. Or that there was a clear indication as to where Madeleine was and what had happened to her.

Failing that, they had 20 more days to get the PJ to check out a, b, or c to see if that could lead to fresh evidence to nail X (and hopefully find Madeleine). Technically, that would have kept the investigation going for however more days were needed for the PJ to check out the specific points.

As nothing emerged during that time to be able to consider laying charges, the case was formally archived.

What on earth would have been the point of asking for a reconstruction? The prosecutor had decided to archive it despite the fact that the recon hadn't taken place. It wouldn't have set the investigation clock back to zero.

[Carana]

I can understand why they just gave up and went home after being made arguidos, whether they were innocent or guilty. I can't understand why, from the safety of the UK, they didn't ask for the investigation to continue. They had more than nine months to make a case for it.

Because they needed to find and present new evidence...

[G-Unit]

Because they needed to find and present new evidence...

I think we will have to agree to disagree. The PJ gave up on the case, it seems to me, when the reconstruction was refused. Had the group agreed to do it the PJ could hardly have refused. Imagine the headlines! I think it would fulfill what you wrote;


Failing that, they had 20 more days to get the PJ to check out a, b, or c to see if that could lead to fresh evidence

[Carana]

I think we will have to agree to disagree. The PJ gave up on the case, it seems to me, when the reconstruction was refused. Had the group agreed to do it the PJ could hardly have refused. Imagine the headlines! I think it would fulfill what you wrote;


Failing that, they had 20 more days to get the PJ to check out a, b, or c to see if that could lead to fresh evidence

LOL

I understand the diligences (in the context of the legal code concerning the hierarchical intervention point) are a means of obtaining extra evidence in order to push for charges.

How would a recon have helped them to do that? And to push for charges against whom? Themselves?

[G-Unit]

LOL

I understand the diligences (in the context of the legal code concerning the hierarchical intervention point) are a means of obtaining extra evidence in order to push for charges.

How would a recon have helped them to do that? And to push for charges against whom? Themselves?

As was pointed out, the reconstruction may have allowed them to demonstrate their innocence.

[Mr Gray]

As was pointed out, the reconstruction may have allowed them to demonstrate their innocence.

it is pretty well impossible to demonstrate innocence...after two full trials Barry George has still not managed..it is an absolutely ridiculous concept

[Carana]

As was pointed out, the reconstruction may have allowed them to demonstrate their innocence.

But it wouldn't have sent the PJ back to the drawing board to start from scratch once the appeal clock was ticking (nor even when Rebelo tried to get one organised). It was a matter of archiving the process or charging someone.

When it might have made a difference to the course of the investigation was right at the beginning - but the PJ decided against it.

[ferryman]

But it wouldn't have sent the PJ back to the drawing board to start from scratch once the appeal clock was ticking (nor even when Rebelo tried to get one organised). It was a matter of archiving the process or charging someone.

When it might have made a difference to the course of the investigation was right at the beginning - but the PJ decided against it.

The only way reconstructions can assist an investigation is by prompting memories and encouraging new witnesses to come forward, a use strictly prohibited by Portuguese secrecy laws (as were then; it may have changed since)

[Carana]

it is pretty well impossible to demonstrate innocence...after two full trials Barry George has still not managed..it is an absolutely ridiculous concept

I still can't see how coming back to do one at that late stage would have helped.

If they had gone back either during Rebelo time or as part of an appeal to keep the investigation going:

- The recon could have shown their movements to be plausible within the limits of circumstances that had changed (lighting) or which couldn't be assured to be identical (wind), or simply the fact that various people couldn't agree on exactly where they were positioned on the street (the trio).

- With hindsight unlikely under Rebelo, but there was still the risk that the PJ could have decided that as they couldn't agree one year later where they were in the street, then they must have been lying. And that's if they weren't ordered to move according to PJ preconceived scenarios.

I'm not even sure that the prosecutor / judge would have been willing to accept the request as, unless they were going back to demonstrate that they were guilty (which doesn't make much sense), it wouldn't have changed the end result.

[John]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this discussion so far.  Madeleleine's parents were undoubtedly extremely relieved when the Archive was decided and they were released from their arguido status, this allowed them an opportunity to get home and start to rebuild their lives. I couldn't see them being in any great rush to have the case reopened given the direction it had taken.  Unfortunately, this did little for the search for Madeleine.

[Carana]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this discussion so far.  Madeleleine's parents were undoubtedly extremely relieved when the Archive was decided and they were released from their arguido status, this allowed them an opportunity to get home and start to rebuild their lives. I couldn't see them being in any great rush to have the case reopened given the direction it had taken.  Unfortunately, this did little for the search for Madeleine.

Unless there was an obvious "smoking gun" that the McCanns could have identified within the judicial timeframe, there wasn't much else to do other than wade through the files hunting for potential needles in the haystack...

[mercury]

Unless there was an obvious "smoking gun" that the McCanns could have identified within the judicial timeframe, there wasn't much else to do other than wade through the files hunting for potential needles in the haystack...

Or employ failed PIs after failed PIs after failed PIs...but never mind, maybe their next set will find their child, succeed where 3 police forces/7 sets of PIs/their own efforts / counting on 20m or so failed, like thats gonna happen