Author Topic: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)  (Read 9716 times)

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icabodcrane

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Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2013, 01:49:36 AM »
Faith is definitely the right word Anne I think.

Emma Loach seems to have forgotten her own film. As arguidos they couldn't speak? But they do speak in that film >@@(*&)

Is Emma Loach the one who made the documentary that misrepresented the Smith family's witness statements  ? 

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2013, 01:58:52 AM »
Yes, she made that one.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2013, 02:16:33 AM »
Yes, she made that one.

Thanks Lyall  ...  and Jeremy Wilkins too  (  his testimony was practically rewritten in his absense  !  ) 

Quite apart from the  fact that she clearly lacks professional integrity I can't fathom why this woman was shipped out to Lisbon as some sort of  'character'  witness for the McCanns  ...  or the Parson's wife either,  come to that

Neither of them had even met the McCanns prior to Madeleine going missing 

I understand that Kate's mother is due to to take the stand to give her views on the distress Amaral's book caused her daughter,  and that's fair enough  ...   she is in a position to know  ...   but two women who were barely  aquainted with the McCanns  ? 

Surely there were better placed witnesses than those two the McCanns could have enlisted   

Offline Angelo222

Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2013, 02:33:58 AM »
Thanks Lyall  ...  and Jeremy Wilkins too  (  his testimony was practically rewritten in his absense  !  ) 

Quite apart from the  fact that she clearly lacks professional integrity I can't fathom why this woman was shipped out to Lisbon as some sort of  'character'  witness for the McCanns  ...  or the Parson's wife either,  come to that

Neither of them had even met the McCanns prior to Madeleine going missing 

I understand that Kate's mother is due to to take the stand to give her views on the distress Amaral's book caused her daughter,  and that's fair enough  ...   she is in a position to know  ...   but two women who were barely  aquainted with the McCanns  ? 

Surely there were better placed witnesses than those two the McCanns could have enlisted


There is no issue as to whether the Amaral book caused distress and hurt, the question is why?   Was it out of guilt because of their bad parenting skills, was it because they knew that such revelations would have a dire effect on the fund or was it for some other yet unknown reason??
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2013, 02:38:09 AM »
Amazing work, Anne

It's a real privilege to be able to read your reports

I especially appreciate your clarifications and explanations

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2013, 02:59:30 AM »

There is no issue as to whether the Amaral book caused distress and hurt, the question is why?   Was it out of guilt because of their bad parenting skills, was it because they knew that such revelations would have a dire effect on the fund or was it for some other yet unknown reason??

How is it calculated that Amaral's revelations had a dire effect on the fund? Are there figures to show this?

Seems that the McCanns and their witnesses, and SY, are all singing from the same hymn sheet on this one, as exemplified by Ms Loache in Anne's report:

The judge (Maria Emília de Melo e Castro) is now asking
MC – How did the book hamper the investigation?
EL says that if everybody thought Madeleine had died then nobody would look for her.

This presupposes that everyone thought there was a good chance that she was alive until Amaral came along with his book. How do we know this?  How many people ever thought the chances of her being alive after a few days or weeks were anything greater than a few percentage points?


AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2013, 05:07:21 PM »
How is it calculated that Amaral's revelations had a dire effect on the fund? Are there figures to show this?

Seems that the McCanns and their witnesses, and SY, are all singing from the same hymn sheet on this one, as exemplified by Ms Loache in Anne's report:

The judge (Maria Emília de Melo e Castro) is now asking
MC – How did the book hamper the investigation?
EL says that if everybody thought Madeleine had died then nobody would look for her.

This presupposes that everyone thought there was a good chance that she was alive until Amaral came along with his book. How do we know this?  How many people ever thought the chances of her being alive after a few days or weeks were anything greater than a few percentage points?
I was hoping Angus McBride, as a specialist of the media, would inform the court and present tangible elements on this topic.
Personally I think the disproportionate treatment of the arguido status, due to an exceptional context of media circus, had the worst effect. Instead of putting the status (no infamy at all) into perspective, the media presented the occurrence as an unpredictable turn of events : all of a sudden perfect victims became perfect suspects.
"What will people think ?" was the first reaction of Mrs McCann when she was told about the arguido status. And she was very right.
Comparatively Mr Amaral's book was no breaking news : those who believed went on believing, those who were sceptics went on being sceptics.
The McCanns understood this book was no danger and this is why they did nothing against it, whereas lots of resources were invested in their public image as soon as they were back to the UK in September 2007.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2013, 05:46:18 PM »
I was hoping Angus McBride, as a specialist of the media, would inform the court and present tangible elements on this topic.
Personally I think the disproportionate treatment of the arguido status, due to an exceptional context of media circus, had the worst effect. Instead of putting the status (no infamy at all) into perspective, the media presented the occurrence as an unpredictable turn of events : all of a sudden perfect victims became perfect suspects.
"What will people think ?" was the first reaction of Mrs McCann when she was told about the arguido status. And she was very right.
Comparatively Mr Amaral's book was no breaking news : those who believed went on believing, those who were sceptics went on being sceptics.
The McCanns understood this book was no danger and this is why they did nothing against it, whereas lots of resources were invested in their public image as soon as they were back to the UK in September 2007.

This is my view as well, Anne. Much as I support the McCanns in general terms, I think they're a bit off here.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2013, 08:31:11 PM »
This is my view as well, Anne. Much as I support the McCanns in general terms, I think they're a bit off here.
The public image is a thing, and nobody wants to be taken for what he/she isn't. Even here on this forum when somebody's aggressive I feel bad. Funny enough, the aggressive person could cross me in the street, not knowing who I'm, and smile to me..
But the private image is another one. This is the unique motive I can see in this trial. And I feel like saying stop ! Let's rewind it and clear it up. There's no crime at stake. But human beings' life. And you live only once.

Offline Admin

Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2013, 08:40:20 PM »
Libel trial Day 1 Witness No 3

Dave Edgar (Private investigator) evidence.



Libel Trial > McCann v Gonçalo Amaral - Day 1  Witness No 3

The testimony as it happened...

(12.09.2013, 5pm) David Edgar (Former RUC detective) hired by the McCanns as a private investigator from October 2008 to October 2011.  Has only a professional relationship with the McCanns.

1) McCann family lawyer, Isabel Duarte, is the first to question the witness.

ID – After explaining the purpose of the trial, she asks what DE’s function was.
DE answers he tried to discover where Madeleine was.
 
ID – Have you previously worked with Portuguese people in the exercise of your functions ?
DE says he did.


Download pdf for full Report...

Important Notice
Readers are warned that this court Report is not a verbatim account of events but is merely a summary. 
As the content is sourced via a third party and although checks are made, the forum cannot guarantee
its veracity.  All reports are made in good faith.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 12:18:15 AM by Admin »

Offline Luz

Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2013, 11:01:42 AM »

Thank you so much Anne. Your report is very important.

I wished I had been in Lisbon but I dared not postpone work appointments when I thought this trial would be dismissed.

If we look at what is at stake, which is suing for a defamation crime (violation of personality rights, that are protected by our Constitution), I fail to understand how this Court can consider what is the level of the respondents’ responsibility when they were cleared from committing a crime, not by one, but by two higher courts (relation and supreme court).

I remember that at some time or another Isabel Duarte invoked “honor” and “image”; well, we know how difficult it is to measure how those rights can be damaged – that’s why there is a rule that establishes that it must be proved that a crime has been committed against said rights. As we know by the previous criminal trial, it was dismissed that such a crime was committed.

Nevertheless, according to the Civil Law there are cases where civil responsibility can be invoked even when an illicit was not committed (accidents, for instance), but in those cases it must be established a nexus of causality between the “accident” and the objective damages suffered by the claimants.

So far I haven’t seen any reports published by the Media that point to health problems, financial losses, actions towards the search for Madeleine,… directly resulting from the object of the claim.

In Portugal there are several cases where people or enterprises were compensated by damages caused by accidents but never for facts that were dismissed by the courts as non-criminal.

Is the court reassembling again today?! If so are you going to offer us again a report of it? I hope so.

Thank you very much Anne.

Offline Angelo222

Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2013, 02:00:35 PM »
Is Isabel Duarte as good as some are making out?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2013, 12:55:33 AM »
Is Isabel Duarte as good as some are making out?

Some say she is good, some have seen her in diabolical defeated action
 @)(++(*

When the mccanns first got to court back in 2010 she tried to suppress evidence, and failed

She also came up with the nonsensical clanger thatthere was proof that maddie was alive because...there had been sightings

Oh well
 @)(++(*

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2013, 08:03:08 PM »

She also came up with the nonsensical clanger thatthere was proof that maddie was alive because...there had been sightings
Could be alive, but even so.. I couldn't believe my ears..

Offline Angelo222

Re: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1 (3 witnesses)
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2013, 11:30:32 PM »
I have just had a look at the download figures and note that Susan Hubbard's evidence file has been downloaded 876 times and that by Michael Wright which was only posted today some 260 times already.

I find that truly awesome.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 11:35:44 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!