Author Topic: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.  (Read 853145 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2985 on: September 07, 2015, 09:49:57 AM »
Now that's a classic.

 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

I've submitted myself to a wee bit of reading in the attempt to be informed about events;  from that I have reached particular conclusions.

You may have reached different conclusions but with all due respect you appear to have nothing to support them.  Nice of you to think my reasoning can be rather 'classic' at times, so thanks for that.

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2986 on: September 07, 2015, 09:57:37 AM »
For what its worth, my thoughts on the news of Amaral's appeal are as follows:

Under Portuguese law, Amaral has a right to appeal the decision of the court, as is right and proper.

There are three possibilities:

  • That the appeal count will agree the original verdict in which case no further appeals will be allowed

    That the appeal court modify the verdict, in which either party can appeal.

    That the appeal count overturn the original verdict, in which either party can appeal (probably the McCanns)



The wording of the court documents that the appeal does not stay the decision. To understand this one need to consider the differences between English civil law and European civil law.

In simple terms:

In England, one must seek permission to appeal. If granted, then execution of the decision of the lower count is suspended until the appeal is heard.

In Europe, including Portugal, the right to appeal is automatic. But execution of the decision is not suspended.

There is a logic in this if you look for it.

In England, one must demonstrate pretty sound grounds for an appeal, and it is therefore logical that the judgement is suspended until the appeal is heard.

In Europe, the right to appeal is automatic (although one must show the grounds upon which the appeal is based - not a very high hurdle). But judgement is not suspended - this is to prevent a losing party using the appeals process to "kick the can down the road" for a few months.
_________

What does it mean for this case? Under English law Amaral would have had to show specific grounds for his appeal. And if granted the court decision to ban the book and DVD may have been suspended.

Under Portuguese law, the appeal is in effect a matter of course, and in the meantime the decision to ban book and DVD sales holds.

Hope this helps!

Offline Carana

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2987 on: September 07, 2015, 10:04:53 AM »
So, only where the higher court considers the lower court has screwed up on points of law wiill it reverse the decision of the lower court (uphold an appeal).

As discussed before, Amaral has an automatic right to lodge an appeal, but not an automatic right to expect that it will be allowed, or even heard ....

Providing that the formalities have been fulfilled, it would seem difficult to refuse an appeal.

In Portugal, an appeal can be based on a dispute of fact and / or law.

Offline Montclair

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2988 on: September 07, 2015, 10:17:49 AM »
I've submitted myself to a wee bit of reading in the attempt to be informed about events;  from that I have reached particular conclusions.

You may have reached different conclusions but with all due respect you appear to have nothing to support them.  Nice of you to think my reasoning can be rather 'classic' at times, so thanks for that.

I don't believe that the law practices in Louisiana USA apply to the country of Portugal. AFAIK, any higher court here can reverse the decision of a lower court. Just recently, a woman had been acquitted of killing her husband's grandmother but a higher court reversed the verdict and convicted her. This decision has now been appealed by the defendant. From this example, you can see, in Portugal, someone can be acquitted and the public prosecutor can appeal the acquittal. This is not allowed in the USA.

Jean-Pierre: Thanks for the info. I believe however that the judge stated in her verdict that the application of the book ban and subsequent fines would only be carried out once all appeals had been exhausted (transito em julgado). Correct me if I am wrong.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 10:21:24 AM by Montclair »

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2989 on: September 07, 2015, 10:18:29 AM »
I've submitted myself to a wee bit of reading in the attempt to be informed about events;  from that I have reached particular conclusions.

You may have reached different conclusions but with all due respect you appear to have nothing to support them.  Nice of you to think my reasoning can be rather 'classic' at times, so thanks for that.

You are merely giving your expected views based on your bias and your dislike of Amaral.

and before you say it, I don't worship Amaral, and he made some mistakes. However, no one as far as I can see has disproved the accidental death hypothesis.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 10:33:55 AM by stephen25000 »

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2990 on: September 07, 2015, 10:31:31 AM »
I don't believe that the law practices in Louisiana USA apply to the country of Portugal. AFAIK, any higher court here can reverse the decision of a lower court. Just recently, a woman had been acquitted of killing her husband's grandmother but a higher court reversed the verdict and convicted her. This decision has now been appealed by the defendant. From this example, you can see, in Portugal, someone can be acquitted and the public prosecutor can appeal the acquittal. This is not allowed in the USA.

Jean-Pierre: Thanks for the info. I believe however that the judge stated in her verdict that the application of the book ban and subsequent fines would only be carried out once all appeals had been exhausted (transito em julgado). Correct me if I am wrong.

AFAIK Montclair The book ban was effective immediately.

The money judgement - well, the funds currently held by the court are more than sufficient to meet the judgement, so no need to ring fence any further assets.

Offline Carana

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2991 on: September 07, 2015, 10:57:52 AM »
I don't believe that the law practices in Louisiana USA apply to the country of Portugal. AFAIK, any higher court here can reverse the decision of a lower court. Just recently, a woman had been acquitted of killing her husband's grandmother but a higher court reversed the verdict and convicted her. This decision has now been appealed by the defendant. From this example, you can see, in Portugal, someone can be acquitted and the public prosecutor can appeal the acquittal. This is not allowed in the USA.

Jean-Pierre: Thanks for the info. I believe however that the judge stated in her verdict that the application of the book ban and subsequent fines would only be carried out once all appeals had been exhausted (transito em julgado). Correct me if I am wrong.


From what I think I've understood is that terms of reparation don't have to be executed until the end of the appeals process (unless there are exceptional circumstances, which may be subject to other annexe proceedings).

The book / DVD ban may be a separate issue. That would require double-checking on his licensing agreement again and whether the others (publishers, etc.) are active participants or not.

Amaral's main issue is about attempting to be able to keep his substantial financial gains (or a proportion of them).


Online Eleanor

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2992 on: September 07, 2015, 11:24:37 AM »

Is there not a fine to be imposed if The Court Directives are not adhered to?

Offline Brietta

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2993 on: September 07, 2015, 12:33:47 PM »
I don't believe that the law practices in Louisiana USA apply to the country of Portugal. AFAIK, any higher court here can reverse the decision of a lower court. Just recently, a woman had been acquitted of killing her husband's grandmother but a higher court reversed the verdict and convicted her. This decision has now been appealed by the defendant. From this example, you can see, in Portugal, someone can be acquitted and the public prosecutor can appeal the acquittal. This is not allowed in the USA.

Jean-Pierre: Thanks for the info. I believe however that the judge stated in her verdict that the application of the book ban and subsequent fines would only be carried out once all appeals had been exhausted (transito em julgado). Correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you Montclair.  Yes the case to which you refer was a strange one indeed ... it will be interesting indeed to find out what the outcome will be.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2994 on: September 07, 2015, 12:50:08 PM »
You are merely giving your expected views based on your bias and your dislike of Amaral.

and before you say it, I don't worship Amaral, and he made some mistakes. However, no one as far as I can see has disproved the accidental death hypothesis.

I find it extraordinary that you think opinions must be formed because of animus to an individual.  I have strong opinions concerning Mr Amaral actions ... about the man personally I have no particular feeling of dislike, for the simple reason I don't need to have one.

His actions do not impinge in any way on me or my family ... nor do I know a great deal about him personally ... so why would I dislike a person I do not know.
I would appreciate it if you would refrain from reiterating that I have any personal feeling of animosity towards the man, as I do not, it is his actions and the consequences of those that I criticise.  Maybe a little 'grown up' debate is in order here.

Is there any particular reason you can give for the adulation surrounding Mr Amaral which gives him one might say a cult status if the comments attached to his fund to appeal the decision of the Portuguese Court are anything to go by?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2995 on: September 07, 2015, 01:25:22 PM »
I find it extraordinary that you think opinions must be formed because of animus to an individual.  I have strong opinions concerning Mr Amaral actions ... about the man personally I have no particular feeling of dislike, for the simple reason I don't need to have one.

His actions do not impinge in any way on me or my family ... nor do I know a great deal about him personally ... so why would I dislike a person I do not know.
I would appreciate it if you would refrain from reiterating that I have any personal feeling of animosity towards the man, as I do not, it is his actions and the consequences of those that I criticise.  Maybe a little 'grown up' debate is in order here.

Is there any particular reason you can give for the adulation surrounding Mr Amaral which gives him one might say a cult status if the comments attached to his fund to appeal the decision of the Portuguese Court are anything to go by?

You give your opinions all the time, along with a great deal of copying and pasting material.

You frequently give your opinions of other posters and have this rather quaint idea that only mccann supporters have a moral standpoint on this case.

As to cult status, I see that with the following the mccanns have from certain parties.


Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2996 on: September 07, 2015, 01:37:03 PM »
You give your opinions all the time, along with a great deal of copying and pasting material.

You frequently give your opinions of other posters and have this rather quaint idea that only mccann supporters have a moral standpoint on this case.

As to cult status, I see that with the following the mccanns have from certain parties.

As do we all, Stephen, including your good self.  This is a forum and its really rather the whole point.

If nobody expressed an opinion, then it would be a pretty dull place!  8(0(*

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2997 on: September 07, 2015, 01:46:57 PM »
As do we all, Stephen, including your good self.  This is a forum and its really rather the whole point.

If nobody expressed an opinion, then it would be a pretty dull place!  8(0(*

Very true JP.

What I have a problem with is those who deny their opinions on the case aren't biased by their stance.

That doesn't include you, as you are clear in your views.

Offline Carana

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2998 on: September 07, 2015, 01:48:13 PM »
It appears to have been referred to the higher court.

What the appeals court will make of it remains to be seen.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #2999 on: September 07, 2015, 01:58:15 PM »
It appears to have been referred to the higher court.

What the appeals court will make of it remains to be seen.

Where did you see that Carana ?