Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.

[misty]

How does one get into an elevator shaft?

You need to google "murder victims found in an elevator shaft" and also check out the design of them.

There is also a story here about a boy who accidentally fell down a shaft & survived. https://www.jpost.com/Magazine/The-Human-Spirit-The-boy-who-fell-five-floors-down-an-elevator-shaft-576163

[Wonderfulspam]

Nothing stopping Madeleine leaving via the front door.  Kate only denies Madeleine left via the rear door.

Then who opened the window & shutters?

[Brietta]

You need to google "murder victims found in an elevator shaft" and also check out the design of them.

There is also a story here about a boy who accidentally fell down a shaft & survived. https://www.jpost.com/Magazine/The-Human-Spirit-The-boy-who-fell-five-floors-down-an-elevator-shaft-576163

Ouch!!!  That is some story.

[The General]

Then who opened the window & shutters?

Robert Murat and Smithman. With gloves on.

[G-Unit]

No you have to take the parent's word for that. As is happening in homes all over the Earth everyday, there is no independent confirmation of what is happening.

In most cases there's no reason to question their word. Occasionally there is,

[Mr Gray]

In most cases there's no reason to question their word. Occasionally there is,

How do you decide when to believe  parents

[The General]

How do you decide when to believe  parents

When they're obviously not lying. Or they're very good at lying.

[Mr Gray]

When they're obviously not lying. Or they're very good at lying.

so the police decide...as they seem to have done in this case...parents not suspects so not considered to be lying

[The General]

so the police decide...as they seem to have done in this case...parents not suspects so not considered to be lying

Your circular, questions with pre-ordaned answers are rendered pointless.

The police did decide. They decided the parents were lying. They just couldn't prove it. Happens all the time in criminal justice - the police know who the perp is, just can't pin it on them..........yet.

[Venturi Swirl]

When they're obviously not lying. Or they're very good at lying.

How do you decide between the two?  Were Ben Needham’s grandparents obviously not lying, if so how do you know this, based on what, or do you think they haven’t been cleared of Ben’s disappearance?

[Mr Gray]

Your circular, questions with pre-ordaned answers are rendered pointless.

The police did decide. They decided the parents were lying. They just couldn't prove it. Happens all the time in criminal justice - the police know who the perp is, just can't pin it on them..........yet.

the initial investigation that has been shown not to have understood the evidence thought the parents were lying....the present PJ investigation and SY seeem to think otherwise

[The General]

How do you decide between the two?  Were Ben Needham’s grandparents obviously not lying, if so how do you know this, based on what, or do you think they haven’t been cleared of Ben’s disappearance?

I haven't seen any footage or witness statements from Ben Needham's grandparents, so I can't comment.
I'm only vaguely aware of the case, remiss of me, I know.

To answer the question, and it's a good one, I suppose it's the same as every other human being, using judgement, making a considered opinion or coming to a sensible conclusion based on the available data. It's prejudiced, biased, discriminatory, presumptive, somewhat flawed perhaps and loaded with emotion distilled from life experiences and conditioning. Same as most rational people. But then I'm not a judge, which is just as well, as I'd make a rubbish judge - GUILTY! FLOG HIM!

[Venturi Swirl]

I haven't seen any footage or witness statements from Ben Needham's grandparents, so I can't comment.
I'm only vaguely aware of the case, remiss of me, I know.

To answer the question, and it's a good one, I suppose it's the same as every other human being, using judgement, making a considered opinion or coming to a sensible conclusion based on the available data. It's prejudiced, biased, discriminatory, presumptive, somewhat flawed perhaps and loaded with emotion distilled from life experiences and conditioning. Same as most rational people. But then I'm not a judge, which is just as well, as I'd make a rubbish judge - GUILTY! FLOG HIM!

Are you admitting you’re probably not a very good judge then?

[G-Unit]

So what did they tell OG?  The McCanns were still suspects or they were cleared?

Perhaps everyone misunderstood the meaning of the archiving dispatch. Oh dear.

[The General]

Are you admitting you’re probably not a very good judge then?

Yes. I'm a crap judge. I'm not precious. I won't sit here and start spewing about how right I am. I've learnt humility.
Doesn't disallow me from having an opinion or taking a stance. Like the old adage, opinions are like.......
I try to be rational, but it's not easy with this lifetime of baggage I'm carrying around.
I don't need unpicking, comment by comment, compromising answer by compromising answer. If you feel my opinions are invalid, so be it.