UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: ShiningInLuz on April 12, 2019, 03:50:32 PM
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The Sun has just come out with one story in the UK and another in it's Irish version. The contact point suggests both are UK based, but I can't be certain. The Irish story got me thinking.
I have long pondered the Smith sighting, and how to get more information re Smithman.
We have partial evidence re Smithman, but the story is far from complete. I happen to believe more can be obtained, and that doing so would advance the case. I won't go into the details, because that would simply bog us down.
The key question is should we be proactive, and utilise the media to try to get some key questions answered?
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The Sun has just come out with one story in the UK and another in it's Irish version. The contact point suggests both are UK based, but I can't be certain. The Irish story got me thinking.
I have long pondered the Smith sighting, and how to get more information re Smithman.
We have partial evidence re Smithman, but the story is far from complete. I happen to believe more can be obtained, and that doing so would advance the case. I won't go into the details, because that would simply bog us down.
The key question is should we be proactive, and utilise the media to try to get some key questions answered?
Who is “we” and what do you suggest “we” do to utilise the media?
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The Sun has just come out with one story in the UK and another in it's Irish version. The contact point suggests both are UK based, but I can't be certain. The Irish story got me thinking.
I have long pondered the Smith sighting, and how to get more information re Smithman.
We have partial evidence re Smithman, but the story is far from complete. I happen to believe more can be obtained, and that doing so would advance the case. I won't go into the details, because that would simply bog us down.
The key question is should we be proactive, and utilise the media to try to get some key questions answered?
One journalist who might be open to the idea is Mark Saunokonoko. If he prints soomething interestng the UK papers sometimes pick his stories up.
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The Sun has just come out with one story in the UK and another in it's Irish version. The contact point suggests both are UK based, but I can't be certain. The Irish story got me thinking.
I have long pondered the Smith sighting, and how to get more information re Smithman.
We have partial evidence re Smithman, but the story is far from complete. I happen to believe more can be obtained, and that doing so would advance the case. I won't go into the details, because that would simply bog us down.
The key question is should we be proactive, and utilise the media to try to get some key questions answered?
An excellent question Sil. I believe the tacky journalist and parents hogging the limelight was far removed from what most people really wanted and that was for an independant investigation no holds barred into what happened to young Madeliene.
I do get the circus accusations in PDL, because that is what it was. all about the poor parents and evil trolls the story became about them! AND they created the circus! and with the circus comes the clowns thosedaft creatures who make up stories to be interesting,and not to mention the ring masters who control the audience- keep them wanting more.
As a child Ihated circuses- the cruelty to animals, those horrid clowns...
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An excellent question Sil. I believe the tacky journalist and parents hogging the limelight was far removed from what most people really wanted and that was for an independant investigation no holds barred into what happened to young Madeliene.
I do get the circus accusations in PDL, because that is what it was. all about the poor parents and evil trolls the story became about them! AND they created the circus! and with the circus comes the clowns thosedaft creatures who make up stories to be interesting,and not to mention the ring masters who control the audience- keep them wanting more.
As a child Ihated circuses- the cruelty to animals, those horrid clowns...
Parents hogging the limelight? They made appeals to the abductor in order to get Madeleine back.
They were warned the story would become about them and that is what they didn't want. You can't blame the parents for the stories in the press. Most of them were leaks from the Portuguese Police.
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An excellent question Sil. I believe the tacky journalist and parents hogging the limelight was far removed from what most people really wanted and that was for an independant investigation no holds barred into what happened to young Madeliene.
I do get the circus accusations in PDL, because that is what it was. all about the poor parents and evil trolls the story became about them! AND they created the circus! and with the circus comes the clowns thosedaft creatures who make up stories to be interesting,and not to mention the ring masters who control the audience- keep them wanting more.
As a child Ihated circuses- the cruelty to animals, those horrid clowns...
The parents arranged the media from their very distraught state apparently, making claims that they were left alone to look for their daughter that the police were doing nothing- which is a disgraceful lie. Many people were out searching to very early hours!
Kate wrote a book was serialised in the SUN 'slagrag' paper. it did nothing to bring back her daughter but then I wsa only written as a defence if they were ever arrested. it was ALL about the parents. Some things mentioned about their daughter I found unbelievablly disgusting and was dumbfounded when friends mentioned it.
So they had an agenda from the moment it all went public.
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Parents hogging the limelight? They made appeals to the abductor in order to get Madeleine back.
They were warned the story would become about them and that is what they didn't want. You can't blame the parents for the stories in the press. Most of them were leaks from the Portuguese Police.
They went to the media. they needed to get their story about abductor out there... The parents were on the TV many times with their 'story' so I have no idea what leaks you are referring to.
Dear Team,
Removing my posts is not silencing me in any way. Seriously, I thrive in this whole forum mod thing it is emtertainment for me. anyother outcome you were hoping for is...well wasted!
I now I must be hitting a truth button.
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They went to the media. they needed to get their story about abductor out there... The parents were on the TV many times with their 'story' so I have no idea what leaks you are referring to.
Dear Team,
Removing my posts is not silencing me in any way. Seriously, I thrive in this whole forum mod thing it is emtertainment for me. anyother outcome you were hoping for is...well wasted!
I now I must be hitting a truth button.
Whaty, Whaty. Silly, Silly. Whatever you have to say is always ridiculous. Although I personally doubt that you are half as daft as you pretend to be.
sadly, you seem to think that we are,
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Whaty, Whaty. Silly, Silly. Whatever you have to say is always ridiculous. Although I personally doubt that you are half as daft as you pretend to be.
sadly, you seem to think that we are,
Oh You! 8)><(
I don't think of you all what you would like me to think of you all. Reciprocal altruism
Sadder fact is; I do not think of you all at all...in your very high opinion you all have of yourselves.. funny that.
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They went to the media. they needed to get their story about abductor out there... The parents were on the TV many times with their 'story' so I have no idea what leaks you are referring to.
Dear Team,
Removing my posts is not silencing me in any way. Seriously, I thrive in this whole forum mod thing it is emtertainment for me. anyother outcome you were hoping for is...well wasted!
I now I must be hitting a truth button.
They went to the media in order for the world to know Madeleine had been abducted. Madeleine could be anywhere when the Portuguese Police were faffing about.
Parents of missing children are told to try and keep their childs name in the spotlight, so that is what they did. It's because you don't believe that Madeleine was abducted that you refer to the abduction as a 'story' and object that they told it so many times.
Leaks such as 100% DNA of Madeleine. Leaks that came from Portugal.
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They went to the media in order for the world to know Madeleine had been abducted. Madeleine could be anywhere when the Portuguese Police were faffing about.
Parents of missing children are told to try and keep their childs name in the spotlight, so that is what they did. It's because you don't believe that Madeleine was abducted that you refer to the abduction as a 'story' and object that they told it so many times.
Leaks such as 100% DNA of Madeleine. Leaks that came from Portugal.
Nope,they went to the world with their version, which to this date still hasn't been qualified with evidence of such.
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Nope,they went to the world with their version, which to this date still hasn't been qualified with evidence of such.
And to this date there has been nothing by both police Investigations to discount their "version".
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Nope,they went to the world with their version, which to this date still hasn't been qualified with evidence of such.
Do you object to the fact that they “went to the world” or do you object that they went to the world with their version of events?
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Do you object to the fact that they “went to the world” or do you object that they went to the world with their version of events?
Where have I mentioned any objection,you really ought try and reading what actually is written.
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And to this date there has been nothing by both police Investigations to discount their "version".
Nor the original investigation,stalemate one could say.
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Where have I mentioned any objection,you really ought try and reading what actually is written.
So you have no objection to the McCanns publicising their version to the world. Good.
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Nor the original investigation,stalemate one could say.
Yet this lack of evidence does nothing to lessen your belief in the McCanns involvement in Madeleine's disappearance?
( Wrong thread for this question)
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And to this date there has been nothing by both police Investigations to discount their "version".
Equally there has been nothing which confirms it.
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Equally there has been nothing which confirms it.
It's all a bit of a bummer. So much effort, so little to show.
How long before OG admit defeat - a year, five, a decade even?
Will there be anyone left on here, or will we all have died of old age or boredom by then?
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Equally there has been nothing which confirms it.
Of course, but in my opinion the initial and inept investigation is the reason why it is proving difficult to solve.
I'm sure you will disagree but this is the wrong thread for that discussion and it has been discussed many times.
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Of course, but in my opinion the initial and inept investigation is the reason why it is proving difficult to solve.
I'm sure you will disagree but this is the wrong thread for that discussion and it has been discussed many times.
Yet this supposed inital and inept investigation left Rowley saying the first investigation dealt with the McCanns and there was no need to reopen that line of investigation,thats a puzzle surely.
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So you have no objection to the McCanns publicising their version to the world. Good.
Couldn't care less at least I know none of my post's are of importance unlike some.
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Yet this supposed inital and inept investigation left Rowley saying the first investigation dealt with the McCanns and there was no need to reopen that line of investigation,thats a puzzle surely.
No, not at all.
Obviously there was no evidence against the McCanns.
The first investigation had dealt with that and NSY were satisfied that there was no need to reopen that.
However the abduction had not been properly investigated and this was surely the remit of NSY.
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Of course, but in my opinion the initial and inept investigation is the reason why it is proving difficult to solve.
I'm sure you will disagree but this is the wrong thread for that discussion and it has been discussed many times.
If that true, it's surprising that OG ever got launched into it's investigative stage.
They had, after all, conducted a comprehensive review and must have know what they were to face.
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If that true, it's surprising that OG ever got launched into it's investigative stage.
They had, after all, conducted a comprehensive review and must have know what they were to face.
Perhaps they did but accepted that difficult challenge in the hope of finding out what happened to a missing child.
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No, not at all.
Obviously there was no evidence against the McCanns.
The first investigation had dealt with that and NSY were satisfied that there was no need to reopen that.
However the abduction had not been properly investigated and this was surely the remit of NSY.
So the McCann's cleared by an inept investigation? Can't have it both ways.
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So the McCann's cleared by an inept investigation? Can't have it both ways.
The McCann's were made arguidos when amaral led the investigation but Rebelo realised the mistakes made when he took over
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No, not at all.
Obviously there was no evidence against the McCanns.
The first investigation had dealt with that and NSY were satisfied that there was no need to reopen that.
However the abduction had not been properly investigated and this was surely the remit of NSY.
They supposedly are and have come up with nowt.
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No, not at all.
Obviously there was no evidence against the McCanns.
The first investigation had dealt with that and NSY were satisfied that there was no need to reopen that.
However the abduction had not been properly investigated and this was surely the remit of NSY.
The word from the investigation was there was not ENOUGH evidence to charge the parens of anything. and that the crime was noted as being 'unknown'- in other words ABDUCTION is NOT a given. That kind of answers those supporters who continue to claim they are not suspects- not suspects in what? Lack of a definitive answer leaves a lot to discuss.
The very fact that the investigation was inept is testament to the parents and Tapas group walking free and getting on with their lives.
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Of course, but in my opinion the initial and inept investigation is the reason why it is proving difficult to solve.
I'm sure you will disagree but this is the wrong thread for that discussion and it has been discussed many times.
So why mention the investigations at all? Fifteen years and no-one can say with certainty what crime was committed .
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So why mention the investigations at all? Fifteen years and no-one can say with certainty what crime was committed .
However both investigations have said with certainty which crime was not committed.
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However both investigations have said with certainty which crime was not committed.
Have they? Which crime has not been committed? You will have a cite, of course.
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However both investigations have said with certainty which crime was not committed.
Eh? What use is that? 'I can categorically state that no theft of a microwave occurred at this premises'.
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Have they? Which crime has not been committed? You will have a cite, of course.
They have stated that the parents are not suspects..
Not suspects !
Time to smell the coffee.
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They have stated that the parents are not suspects..
Not suspects !
Time to smell the coffee.
I don't see any mention of a crime there, do you?
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Eh? What use is that? 'I can categorically state that no theft of a microwave occurred at this premises'.
A child disappeared.
A crime was committed.
The parents are not suspects in that crime.
Therefore they have not committed the crime of which sceptics believe they have.
It's difficult to define which crime sceptics believe the parents are complicit in.
It's akin to nailing jelly to a wall.
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A child disappeared.
A crime was committed.
The parents are not suspects in that crime.
Therefore they have not committed the crime of which sceptics believe they have.
It's difficult to define which crime sceptics believe the parents are complicit in.
It's akin to nailing jelly to a wall.
Which crime?
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I don't see any mention of a crime there, do you?
The crime that was not committed by the parents was being complicit in the disappearance of their child.
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Which crime?
Don't you believe a crime as committed?
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The crime that was not committed by the parents was being complicit in the disappearance of their child.
Using that argument, a crime has not been committed by anyone else, either.
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Don't you believe a crime as committed?
It has yet to be demonstrated.
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Which crime?
Exactly,the last person to offer any thing from SY was Rowley he said however the child left 5a she was abducted,of more significance imo was no mention of any stranger abduction.Yet paper revelations *%87 suggested they were looking at woke and wandered.
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It has yet to be demonstrated.
So you believe in woke and wandered?
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Exactly,the last person to offer any thing from SY was Rowley he said however the child left 5a she was abducted,of more significance imo was no mention of any stranger abduction.Yet paper revelations *%87 suggested they were looking at woke and wandered.
In both of these scenarios there is no parental involvement!
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So you believe in woke and wandered?
I don't believe any particular scenario as I'm not party to all the relevant information.
OG, on the other hand, are party to all the information that there is and cannot rule anything out for certain.
All they seem to have is a 'professional belief', which means they don't know either.
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I don't believe any particular scenario as I'm not party to all the relevant information.
OG, on the other hand, are party to all the information that there is and cannot rule anything out for certain.
All they seem to have is a 'professional belief', which means they don't know either.
Indeed!
OG are party to all the information and have said that the McCanns are not suspects.
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Indeed!
OG are party to all the information and have said that the McCanns are not suspects.
How many times do you need to have it explained that without a defined crime, your cannot have a suspect.
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So you believe in woke and wandered?
Well I do.
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Well I do.
OK, she got outside. Then what?
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How many times do you need to have it explained that without a defined crime, your cannot have a suspect.
Either you believe there was no crime in which case there can be no suspects ..........or you believe there was a crime.
Taking the possibility that a crime was committed can you name which crimes could be possible.
A) The parents simulated adbuction and disposed of her body...
B) She was abducted.
What other crimes are possible?
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If such a crime exists, Portugal would not have jurisdiction to investigate and try it. The fund being legally registered in England, it would be our English colleagues who would deal with the case. (TOTL)
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Either you believe there was no crime in which case there can be no suspects ..........or you believe there was a crime.
Taking the possibility that a crime was committed can you name which crimes could be possible.
A) The parents simulated adbuction and disposed of her body...
B) She was abducted.
What other crimes are possible?
Both are possibilities. No one, including the police apparently, can be certain that either is true, as they haven't been able to define a crime.
Working on information received from interested parties, police have developed a working hypothesis, which as yet, they have been unable to prove - at least as far as we the public have been told.
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Both are possibilities. No one, including the police apparently, can be certain that either is true, as they haven't been able to define a crime.
Working on information received from interested parties, police have developed a working hypothesis, which as yet, they have been unable to prove - at least as far as we the public have been told.
But as they have stated that the McCanns are not suspects then as there are only two possibilities of any crime, they the do not see crime A as a possiblity.
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But as they have stated that the McCanns are not suspects then as there are only two possibilities of any crime, they the do not see crime A as a possiblity.
Indeed, but it is only their opinion of what happened, rather than a proven fact and should not be taken as such.
Whatever BELIEF one may have, none of us know for certain and should therefore keep an open mind on what happened until we know otherwise.
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OK, she got outside. Then what?
She got to the secondary reception and she found the door there shut and she couldn't get in to the Tapas area.
She was picked up from the car park opposite the door. That is my analysis. The management of the OC never said that the reception door was going to remain open all night, but IMO Kate thought it would be open at all times.
To me that is what caught them out.
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She got to the secondary reception and she found the door there shut and she couldn't get in to the Tapas area.
She was picked up from the car park opposite the door. That is my analysis. The management of the OC never said that the reception door was going to remain open all night, but IMO Kate thought it would be open at all times.
To me that is what caught them out.
So you have a person of evil intent just hanging about the reception area at just the right time, even though it was reportedly quiet with no one in the street, other than various Tapas group members dashing back and forth along that street.
Does that really work ? Would Madeleine have wandered barefoot down the street and without her comfort toy Cuddlecat?
Sounds unlikely to me.
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In both of these scenarios there is no parental involvement!
Apart from leaving her to either of those fates.
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@ Erngath ... you have the patience of a saint.
As far as I can see boredom seems to have erupted a bit earlier in the thread than usual ... we didn't even get close to the end of page one before the vitriol was being poured and pored over Madeleine's parents ... with a little flavour of usual denials just to add spice.
May I recommend that members refer to the opening post and consider posting on that theme. If you have nothing on topic to add ... then please seek out the appropriate thread and post there.
At least Shining went to the trouble of attempting to bring a novel idea to the forum for discussion ... please desist insulting him by ignoring it entirely in pursuit of whatever it is you are intent on pursuing ... which I think is disrespectful to say the least.
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How many times do you need to have it explained that without a defined crime, your cannot have a suspect.
Murat and the mccanns were suspects.... How does your suspect logic explain that
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How many times do you need to have it explained that without a defined crime, your cannot have a suspect.
I believe the reference to suspect is in respect of the child's disappearance. I agree though that without a defined crime there cannot be a suspect in that respect.
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I believe the reference to suspect is in respect of the child's disappearance. I agree though that without a defined crime there cannot be a suspect in that respect.
Shining's opening post asked if the media could be enrolled in some way for the benefit of Madeleine ... I don't think we have even touched on some of the possibilities that thought represents.
We are bogged down in exactly the same old, same old which is boring and tiresome and I think that is more by design than accident.
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Moderators have only themselves to blame for it allowing it to go off topic - IMO
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Shining's opening post asked if the media could be enrolled in some way for the benefit of Madeleine ... I don't think we have even touched on some of the possibilities that thought represents.
We are bogged down in exactly the same old, same old which is boring and tiresome and I think that is more by design than accident.
Nah, it's the product of a dozen or so individuals with differing opinions who've been jousting on line with each other for years.
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Moderators have only themselves to blame for it allowing it to go off topic - IMO
Are you suggesting wholesale deletions?
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Are you suggesting wholesale deletions?
A mod hijacked the thread if you care to look back.
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Are you suggesting wholesale deletions?
Whatever. I don't mind.
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Nah, it's the product of a dozen or so individuals with differing opinions who've been jousting on line with each other for years.
Maybe it's about time the script was changed then?
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A mod hijacked the thread if you care to look back.
Life is far too sweet and far too short ^*&&
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Life is far too sweet and far too short ^*&&
But not too short to admonish all sceptics in this thread?
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Thread topic please ... thank you
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Couldn't care less at least I know none of my post's are of importance unlike some.
No one’s posts are important IMO.
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So why mention the investigations at all? Fifteen years and no-one can say with certainty what crime was committed .
Fifteen?!
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Maybe that Irish Journalist might be interested - I forget her name but she did a McCann article a year or so ago - or did it never materialise? - can' remember
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Gemma O'doherty, that's her name.
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How many times do you need to have it explained that without a defined crime, your cannot have a suspect.
Why not?
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No one’s posts are important IMO.
Speak for yourself, I'm having mine hand-transcribed on medieval parchment in gold ink by a team of monks. Including this one.
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Speak for yourself, I'm having mine hand-transcribed on medieval parchment in gold ink by a team of monks. Including this one.
Delusions of grandeur from the General. @)(++(*
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Maybe that Irish Journalist might be interested - I forget her name but she did a McCann article a year or so ago - or did it never materialise? - can' remember
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Gemma O'doherty, that's her name.
I think it is an impossible task for a free lance journalist to undertake. In fact I think what Shining has envisaged is altogether impossible while the two investigations into Madeleine's disappearance are active and outsiders have absolutely no idea what evidence has been checked out and discarded and what new evidence has been found and is still under investigation.
Whatever ... I think the last thing Madeleine needs is another in the long line of individuals regurgitating and reanalysing events of a week in Portugal in May ... I think we have progressed far beyond that.
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And to this date there has been nothing by both police Investigations to discount their "version".
That we know of.
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I think it is an impossible task for a free lance journalist to undertake. In fact I think what Shining has envisaged is altogether impossible while the two investigations into Madeleine's disappearance are active and outsiders have absolutely no idea what evidence has been checked out and discarded and what new evidence has been found and is still under investigation.
Whatever ... I think the last thing Madeleine needs is another in the long line of individuals regurgitating and reanalysing events of a week in Portugal in May ... I think we have progressed far beyond that.
That's pretty much the end of this thread then. @)(++(*
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What about The Cadaver Dog Thread? That's looking a bit neglected.
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What about The Cadaver Dog Thread? That's looking a bit neglected.
...not to say unreliable.
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I wonder what SIL's key questions are?
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...not to say unreliable.
Sceptics don't realise the dogs can be both reliable and unreliable
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I wonder what SIL's key questions are?
I think I can guarantee that sil does not have key questions that would take this investigation forward... Sils chance to prove me wrong..
One of mine... Was the smith sighting promoted in Portugal in order to identify smithman
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Sceptics don't realise the dogs can be both reliable and unreliable
All of them? Another crass generalisation.
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All of them? Another crass generalisation.
From observation I think it's an accurate ..which sceptics here think the dogs could be unreliable
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Dog Thread, if you please.
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From observation I think it's an accurate ..which sceptics here think the dogs could be unreliable
So just the sceptics on here, or all sceptics who have an opinion about cadaver dogs reliability?
And what's your measure of reliable? Because if it's 100%, then it's a loaded question.
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Dog Thread, if you please.
That's a bit woof. But you're right.
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If I could sit down and have a chat with Martin Smith, Peter Smith or Aoife I would do it in an instant. They know much more than they think they know, and it's important.
If I could ask Kate and Gerry a few questions, I would be happy to chat. They also know more than they think they know, and it's important.
At the moment, I live in Portugal, where the alleged chief suspect of OG has been portrayed as Smithman. Note, not a possibly entirely innocent person, as DCI Andy Redwood stated, but a 'chief suspect'.
There are 3 battlegrounds as far as I am concerned. One is the Republic of Ireland, the homeland of the Smiths. One is Leicerstirshire, the homeland of the McCanns.
The third is obviously in and around Luz. I have lost patience with OG apparently requesting endless extensions whilst seemingly doing nothing at all.
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If I could sit down and have a chat with Martin Smith, Peter Smith or Aoife I would do it in an instant. They know much more than they think they know, and it's important.
If I could ask Kate and Gerry a few questions, I would be happy to chat. They also know more than they think they know, and it's important.
At the moment, I live in Portugal, where the alleged chief suspect of OG has been portrayed as Smithman. Note, not a possibly entirely innocent person, as DCI Andy Redwood stated, but a 'chief suspect'.
There are 3 battlegrounds as far as I am concerned. One is the Republic of Ireland, the homeland of the Smiths. One is Leicerstirshire, the homeland of the McCanns.
The third is obviously in and around Luz. I have lost patience with OG apparently requesting endless extensions whilst seemingly doing nothing at all.
Obviously no sighting of the lesser spotted SY officer then.
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I think it is an impossible task for a free lance journalist to undertake. In fact I think what Shining has envisaged is altogether impossible while the two investigations into Madeleine's disappearance are active and outsiders have absolutely no idea what evidence has been checked out and discarded and what new evidence has been found and is still under investigation.
Whatever ... I think the last thing Madeleine needs is another in the long line of individuals regurgitating and reanalysing events of a week in Portugal in May ... I think we have progressed far beyond that.
Hard to envisage SY have got past that yet.
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If I could sit down and have a chat with Martin Smith, Peter Smith or Aoife I would do it in an instant. They know much more than they think they know, and it's important.
If I could ask Kate and Gerry a few questions, I would be happy to chat. They also know more than they think they know, and it's important.
At the moment, I live in Portugal, where the alleged chief suspect of OG has been portrayed as Smithman. Note, not a possibly entirely innocent person, as DCI Andy Redwood stated, but a 'chief suspect'.
There are 3 battlegrounds as far as I am concerned. One is the Republic of Ireland, the homeland of the Smiths. One is Leicerstirshire, the homeland of the McCanns.
The third is obviously in and around Luz. I have lost patience with OG apparently requesting endless extensions whilst seemingly doing nothing at all.
You may be happy to chat to the McCanns but I can't think of any reason at all why they would be interested in chatting to you. what do you think you can bring to the party?
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If I could sit down and have a chat with Martin Smith, Peter Smith or Aoife I would do it in an instant. They know much more than they think they know, and it's important.
If I could ask Kate and Gerry a few questions, I would be happy to chat. They also know more than they think they know, and it's important.
At the moment, I live in Portugal, where the alleged chief suspect of OG has been portrayed as Smithman. Note, not a possibly entirely innocent person, as DCI Andy Redwood stated, but a 'chief suspect'.
There are 3 battlegrounds as far as I am concerned. One is the Republic of Ireland, the homeland of the Smiths. One is Leicerstirshire, the homeland of the McCanns.
The third is obviously in and around Luz. I have lost patience with OG apparently requesting endless extensions whilst seemingly doing nothing at all.
Hope you have deep pockets, then. After being on Oprah, likely they'll have high expectations, remuneration wise.
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If I could sit down and have a chat with Martin Smith, Peter Smith or Aoife I would do it in an instant. They know much more than they think they know, and it's important.
If I could ask Kate and Gerry a few questions, I would be happy to chat. They also know more than they think they know, and it's important.
At the moment, I live in Portugal, where the alleged chief suspect of OG has been portrayed as Smithman. Note, not a possibly entirely innocent person, as DCI Andy Redwood stated, but a 'chief suspect'.
There are 3 battlegrounds as far as I am concerned. One is the Republic of Ireland, the homeland of the Smiths. One is Leicerstirshire, the homeland of the McCanns.
The third is obviously in and around Luz. I have lost patience with OG apparently requesting endless extensions whilst seemingly doing nothing at all.
All your opinion... My opinion you are totally wrong... Why should the McCann's or the Smiths, sit down with someone who has zero experience in this area.... And in the, case of the McCann's.. Someone who has insulted them repeatedly on line
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So just the sceptics on here, or all sceptics who have an opinion about cadaver dogs reliability?
And what's your measure of reliable? Because if it's 100%, then it's a loaded question.
I did try and start a thread on the topic as it was deemed off topic... But it seems the mods don't want to approve it
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I did try and start a thread on the topic as it was deemed off topic... But it seems the mods don't want to approve it
It gives no explanation of what this Topic is about.
Apologies for my ignorance in advance.
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It gives no explanation of what this Topic is about.
Apologies for my ignorance in advance.
It's OK I've found a similar thread
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Hope you have deep pockets, then. After being on Oprah, likely they'll have high expectations, remuneration wise.
How much were they paid for that?
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How much were they paid for that?
More than Sil's got, I'll wager
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More than Sil's got, I'll wager
So you’ve no idea.
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So you have a person of evil intent just hanging about the reception area at just the right time, even though it was reportedly quiet with no one in the street, other than various Tapas group members dashing back and forth along that street.
Does that really work ? Would Madeleine have wandered barefoot down the street and without her comfort toy Cuddlecat?
Sounds unlikely to me.
Think about what Madeleine's reaction would be if she found herself locked out of the Tapas area. She is on her own in the dark, cold night, short sleeved pyjamas, no shoes. No cuddle cat to comfort her. No blanket.
Remember what the executive chef said, there was a commotion over by the Secondary Reception. Could that have been a kid being hit by a car, a drunk driver even. It doesn't have to be someone hanging around.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARLINDO-PELEGA.htm
"A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared. Given the importance of this, believed that he should be in the surroundings. At that moment, he did not leave the area of the restaurant, and did not have the opportunity to check if the vehicle mentioned before was situated in the same location; "
The vehicle and the "clamour" seem to be connected in his statement.
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Think about what Madeleine's reaction would be if she found herself locked out of the Tapas area. She is on her own in the dark, cold night, short sleeved pyjamas, no shoes. No cuddle cat to comfort her. No blanket.
Remember what the executive chef said, there was a commotion over by the Secondary Reception. Could that have been a kid being hit by a car, a drunk driver even. It doesn't have to be someone hanging around.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARLINDO-PELEGA.htm
"A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared. Given the importance of this, believed that he should be in the surroundings. At that moment, he did not leave the area of the restaurant, and did not have the opportunity to check if the vehicle mentioned before was situated in the same location; "
The vehicle and the "clamour" seem to be connected in his statement.
There's a problem with this narrative: one toddler awake, frightened, confused = 3 infants awake, crying.
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There's a problem with this narrative: one toddler awake, frightened, confused = 3 infants awake, crying.
Is that a mathematical equation?
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Is that a mathematical equation?
It would be the simplest of all if it were, so no surprise you don't understand.
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If I could sit down and have a chat with Martin Smith, Peter Smith or Aoife I would do it in an instant. They know much more than they think they know, and it's important.
If I could ask Kate and Gerry a few questions, I would be happy to chat. They also know more than they think they know, and it's important.
At the moment, I live in Portugal, where the alleged chief suspect of OG has been portrayed as Smithman. Note, not a possibly entirely innocent person, as DCI Andy Redwood stated, but a 'chief suspect'.
There are 3 battlegrounds as far as I am concerned. One is the Republic of Ireland, the homeland of the Smiths. One is Leicerstirshire, the homeland of the McCanns.
The third is obviously in and around Luz. I have lost patience with OG apparently requesting endless extensions whilst seemingly doing nothing at all.
How could the media play a part in this?
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It would be the simplest of all if it were, so no surprise you don't understand.
It’s certainly simplistic. Why do you think one toddler awake and frightened necessarily = three infamts awake and confused?
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Hope you have deep pockets, then. After being on Oprah, likely they'll have high expectations, remuneration wise.
Why on earth would you post that?
Snip
A spokesman for Harpo Productions, which produces the Oprah Winfrey show in the US, confirmed they had approached the McCanns about an interview, but insisted they were not involved in a bidding war.
She said: "The Oprah Winfrey Show does not pay for news interviews."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576625/Madeleine-McCann-parents-in-1m-Oprah-bid.html
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Why on earth would you post that?
Snip
A spokesman for Harpo Productions, which produces the Oprah Winfrey show in the US, confirmed they had approached the McCanns about an interview, but insisted they were not involved in a bidding war.
She said: "The Oprah Winfrey Show does not pay for news interviews."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576625/Madeleine-McCann-parents-in-1m-Oprah-bid.html
Why would she post that? I think the answer is fairly obvious.
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How much were they paid for that?
They took the opportunity of that trip to the USA to work with the FBI on an age progressed image of Madeleine which they released on Oprah.
Two years into Madeleine's disappearance such an opportunity to publicise Madeleine on a show with the ratings enjoyed by that show was invaluable.
They were not paid for their appearance.
Snip
Finally, as Oprah revealed on her live show Friday, the McCanns visited the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children for an age progression photo to see what Madeleine might look like today.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2009/05/01/madeleine-mccann-age-prog_n_194952.html
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There's a problem with this narrative: one toddler awake, frightened, confused = 3 infants awake, crying.
That would be true if the crying occurred in the apartment, but in my scenario Madeleine exits the apartment quietly and only get agitated once she finds the reception door closed. The twins would not hear that because of the distance (about 30 - 40 meters).
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That would be true if the crying occurred in the apartment, but in my scenario Madeleine exits the apartment quietly and only get agitated once she finds the reception door closed. The twins would not hear that because of the distance (about 30 - 40 meters).
Why would it necessarily be true? When Mre Fenn alleged she heard achild crying (and we are all supposed to believe it was Madeleine) why weren’t all three of them crying?
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They didn't wake up with all the noise on 3 May so why do you think they did on the night Mrs Fenn heard crying?
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They didn't wake up with all the noise on 3 May so why do you think they did on the night Mrs Fenn heard crying?
How many nights had they coped with?
Saturday night - took kids with them to Millennium?
Sunday night -
Monday night - was that the night Madeleine slept in with the parents?
Tuesday night - Mrs Fenn reported MBM crying (no mention of the twins).
Wednesday night - Madeleine asked "where were you when Shaun and I cried last night?"
Thursday night - Madeleine knows where to find parents, does not cry in the apartment.
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How many nights had they coped with?
Saturday night - took kids with them to Millennium?
Sunday night -
Monday night - was that the night Madeleine slept in with the parents?
Tuesday night - Mrs Fenn reported MBM crying (no mention of the twins).
Wednesday night - Madeleine asked "where were you when Shaun and I cried last night?"
Thursday night - Madeleine knows where to find parents, does not cry in the apartment.
I think it is also worth bearing in mind that Mrs Fenn did not make a statement to the Judicial police until the 20th of August 2007.
One really does have to wonder about the significance of that late date.
She wasn't a million miles away was she? ... she was in the apartment immediately above the one Madeleine McCann vanished from ... yet the Judicial police did not see fit to interview her until eighteen days before Kate and Gerry were made suspects in Madeleine's disappearance on the 7th of September.
We have no verbatim statement from Mrs Fenn. She did not speak Portuguese. The statement with which we are familiar has been translated by an amateur for publication on the internet. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm So we have no way of knowing what exactly Mrs Fenn did say in her interview.
The report submitted to the Judicial police by Martin Grime of the CSI and VRD inspection of apartment 5A on the 3rd August 2007 was completed on the 17th of August 2007 http://themaddiecasefiles.com/martin-grime-and-eddie-and-keela-t35.html just three days before the Judicial police interviewed Mrs Fenn on the 20th.
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They didn't wake up with all the noise on 3 May so why do you think they did on the night Mrs Fenn heard crying?
I don’t, it was the General who claimed one crying child = three crying children, and I was merely pointing out the flaw in that statement.
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It’s certainly simplistic. Why do you think one toddler awake and frightened necessarily = three infamts awake and confused?
If we're persisting with the woke and wandered theory, with Maddie being locked out of the Tapas area, there's no way on this planet she hasn't tried to wake the twins, or they woke themselves, she'd be playing merry hell.
That's why.
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If we're persisting with the woke and wandered theory, with Maddie being locked out of the Tapas area, there's no way on this planet she hasn't tried to wake the twins, or they woke themselves, she'd be playing merry hell.
That's why.
Is that a scientific fact? LOL.
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Is that a scientific fact? LOL.
You wan't me to provide scientific facts to bolster my proposed, hypothetical element of a previously postulated hypothetical scenario?
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If we're persisting with the woke and wandered theory, with Maddie being locked out of the Tapas area, there's no way on this planet she hasn't tried to wake the twins, or they woke themselves, she'd be playing merry hell.
That's why.
In my analysis Madeleine could have walked to the Tapas area and found the door at reception closed. I think she would look for help to get through that door and hence she may have crossed the road.
Whatever happens at around that time Madeleine doesn't have the opportunity of going back to wake the twins. There was no one there to wake the twins.
So whatever you meant by "there's no way on this planet she hasn't tried to wake the twins, or they woke themselves, she'd be playing merry hell" IMO that bit just didn't happen.
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You wan't me to provide scientific facts to bolster my proposed, hypothetical element of a previously postulated hypothetical scenario?
You’re assumptions are baseless IMO. Either Mrs Fenn didn’t hear Madeleine crying, or a child can cry for prolonged periods without waking their siblings, which is it?
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In my analysis Madeleine could have walked to the Tapas area and found the door at reception closed. I think she would look for help to get through that door and hence she may have crossed the road.
Whatever happens at around that time Madeleine doesn't have the opportunity of going back to wake the twins. There was no one there to wake the twins.
So whatever you meant by "there's no way on this planet she hasn't tried to wake the twins, or they woke themselves, she'd be playing merry hell" IMO that bit just didn't happen.
She would wake the twins, this is my point. She'd be bawling the house down.
I'm not even interested in Mrs Fenn or whoever. If that toddler woke up and started to try to get out, she'd be distraught and would wake the twins, irrespective of the fact they are unique heavy sleepers.
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She would wake the twins, this is my point. She'd be bawling the house down.
I'm not even interested in Mrs Fenn or whoever. If that toddler woke up and started to try to get out, she'd be distraught and would wake the twins, irrespective of the fact they are unique heavy sleepers.
In your opinion, which is IMO based on nothing at all.
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In your opinion, which is IMO based on nothing at all.
Indeed. Maybe she would wake up and calmly notice she'd been neglected again, I mean, she was getting used to it.
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Indeed. Maybe she would wake up and calmly notice she'd been neglected again, I mean, she was getting used to it.
I doubt she felt neglected but as with all children who sadly go missing, her parents were not there when she needed them.
The parents of children who disappear must be racked with guilt and grief that they weren't with their child when most needed.
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I doubt she felt neglected
I wonder how she did feel, being left alone night after night, in a strange environment, in the dark, essentially in the charge of her siblings at the age of 3, maybe trying to console them when they were crying - the poor little sod. An then, whatever fate befell her, it wouldn't have been the best day out she's ever had.
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I wonder how she did feel, being left alone night after night, in a strange environment, in the dark, essentially in the charge of her siblings at the age of 3, maybe trying to console them when they were crying - the poor little sod. An then, whatever fate befell her, it wouldn't have been the best day out she's ever had.
Just clipping posts to reply to the only part you wish to and to use only part of my post to continue your point of view and to ignore the point I was making is in my opinion a poor and rather sneaky way of continuing an exchange of posts.
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Indeed. Maybe she would wake up and calmly notice she'd been neglected again, I mean, she was getting used to it.
No, from what Fiona says in her rogatory interview I believe Kate had told Madeleine where she could find mum and dad, so no need to cry, just the need to get there.
Crying only makes the walking more difficult.
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I wonder how she did feel, being left alone night after night, in a strange environment, in the dark, essentially in the charge of her siblings at the age of 3, maybe trying to console them when they were crying - the poor little sod. An then, whatever fate befell her, it wouldn't have been the best day out she's ever had.
I doubt if Madeleine knew she was being left alone. Children quickly become used to different surroundings, no doubt she had stayed at her Grand parents houses before and they had been to different places on holiday. Madeleine was used to sleeping without the light on and some light coming in through the door, the McCann's kept their usual routine.
As for consoling the twins, there was just one night when Mrs. Fenn said she heard crying, but didn't say it was Madeleine. Mrs. Fenn didn't say she heard any crying on the Thursday 3rd of May.
I still believe Mrs Fenn got a bit confused with the time on the Tuesday night. Amelie woke crying apparently which probably woke Sean and Madeleine. What I think Mrs Fenn heard was Amelie crying, then Sean and then Madeleine calling Daddy. When Madeleine said why didn't you come when Sean and me were crying I believe she meant the Tuesday night, when she went into her parents bedroom and slept with them. Kate was in the room with them on the Wednesday night. IMO
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I doubt if Madeleine knew she was being left alone. Children quickly become used to different surroundings, no doubt she had stayed at her Grand parents houses before and they had been to different places on holiday. Madeleine was used to sleeping without the light on and some light coming in through the door, the McCann's kept their usual routine.
As for consoling the twins, there was just one night when Mrs. Fenn said she heard crying, but didn't say it was Madeleine. Mrs. Fenn didn't say she heard any crying on the Thursday 3rd of May.
I still believe Mrs Fenn got a bit confused with the time on the Tuesday night. Amelie woke crying apparently which probably woke Sean and Madeleine. What I think Mrs Fenn heard was Amelie crying, then Sean and then Madeleine calling Daddy. When Madeleine said why didn't you come when Sean and me were crying I believe she meant the Tuesday night, when she went into her parents bedroom and slept with them. Kate was in the room with them on the Wednesday night. IMO
Tuesday or Wednesday, does it make it any better? - they were still left.
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Tuesday or Wednesday, does it make it any better? - they were still left.
Yes they were, I wouldn't have done the same. They thought it was safe and made a terrible decision one that will haunt them for the rest of their lives.
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What can one say? This is all Personal Opinion. Please try to remember that. No one knows if Madeleine even woke up.
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What can one say? This is all Personal Opinion. Please try to remember that. No one knows if Madeleine even woke up.
Would it not be equally bad if it were one of the others that had woke up?
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Would it not be equally bad if it were one of the others that had woke up?
Did they? More Personal Opinion.
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Did they? More Personal Opinion.
Note the little word IF in my sentence, so no opinion expressed.
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Note the little word IF in my sentence, so no opinion expressed.
Did they?
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Did they?
I don't know. Why not read my sentence again and then you might understand the question.
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I doubt if Madeleine knew she was being left alone. Children quickly become used to different surroundings, no doubt she had stayed at her Grand parents houses before and they had been to different places on holiday. Madeleine was used to sleeping without the light on and some light coming in through the door, the McCann's kept their usual routine.
As for consoling the twins, there was just one night when Mrs. Fenn said she heard crying, but didn't say it was Madeleine. Mrs. Fenn didn't say she heard any crying on the Thursday 3rd of May.
I still believe Mrs Fenn got a bit confused with the time on the Tuesday night. Amelie woke crying apparently which probably woke Sean and Madeleine. What I think Mrs Fenn heard was Amelie crying, then Sean and then Madeleine calling Daddy. When Madeleine said why didn't you come when Sean and me were crying I believe she meant the Tuesday night, when she went into her parents bedroom and slept with them. Kate was in the room with them on the Wednesday night. IMO
Mrs Fenn did not get confused. She heard crying on Tuesday for 75 minutes because Rachael stayed in on Wednesday and heard nowt!
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I don't know. Why not read my sentence again and then you might understand the question.
Why ask the question in the first place if you don't know? It doesn't actually accomplish anything, does it?
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Why ask the question in the first place if you don't know? It doesn't actually accomplish anything, does it?
You still haven't understood. I wasn't asking if children had cried - that's just your twist.
I was questioning if one crying would be any better or worse than another doing so.
All the emphasis is on Madeleine crying, as if Sean crying would be unimportant.
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You still haven't understood. I wasn't asking if children had cried - that's just your twist.
I was questioning if one crying would be any better or worse than another doing so.
All the emphasis is on Madeleine crying, as if Sean crying would be unimportant.
What would this have to do with The Media? No one knows for sure if any of the children cried.
But I do understand perfectly of what you are trying to do.
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What would this have to do with The Media? No one knows for sure if any of the children cried.
But I do understand perfectly of what you are trying to do.
What have 3/4 of the posts on this thread got to do with the topic?
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What have 3/4 of the posts on this thread got to do with the topic?
What have 3/4 of posts on any Thread got to do with The Topic. Just another bash at The McCanns.
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What would this have to do with The Media? No one knows for sure if any of the children cried.
But I do understand perfectly of what you are trying to do.
Basically I don't think some members are interested in discussing anything which might be of benefit as far as Madeleine is concerned as referred to in the topic of this thread. But hold them back when it comes to getting the boot into her friends and family.
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Basically I don't think some members are interested in discussing anything which might be of benefit as far as Madeleine is concerned as referred to in the topic of this thread. But hold them back when it comes to getting the boot into her friends and family.
Never mind, Love, it's the name of the game. And they don't half kick off if their comments get deleted.
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What would this have to do with The Media? No one knows for sure if any of the children cried.
But I do understand perfectly of what you are trying to do.
Could we be trying to get the media to ask the right questions? I think we have the right elements.
1. Sniffer dogs that track her from the front door to the car park opposite the secondary reception.
2. The arrival of a manager between 9:30 - 10:00 PM who could have insisted no more people come into the Tapas area unless they were clients so closed the door.
3. Fiona reporting that Kate discussed letting Madeleine come over to the Tapas if she woke up.
4. Reports of someone calling out for Madeleine much earlier than the alarm raised by Kate.
5. The report to the night creche nannies allow them the arrive in time to see the window open and shutters
up.
6. Confirmation from Kate that it was improbable that Madeleine left via the rear patio door. The McCanns don't mention the possibility of exiting the front door.
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Could we be trying to get the media to ask the right questions? I think we have the right elements.
1. Sniffer dogs that track her from the front door to the car park opposite the secondary reception.
2. The arrival of a manager between 9:30 - 10:00 PM who could have insisted no more people come into the Tapas area unless they were clients so closed the door.
3. Fiona reporting that Kate discussed letting Madeleine come over to the Tapas if she woke up.
4. Reports of someone calling out for Madeleine much earlier than the alarm raised by Kate.
5. The report to the night creche nannies allow them the arrive in time to see the window open and shutters
up.
6. Confirmation from Kate that it was improbable that Madeleine left via the rear patio door. The McCanns don't mention the possibility of exiting the front door.
Scotland Yard and the Judicial police are both engaged in an active investigation of Madeleine's case. I am sure if media assistance is required they will see to asking for it.
I doubt very much that anything you have mentioned above would be of interest to them as both forces have already carried out intensive reviews of all materials from that time and no doubt have already dealt with it.
After all ... it is twelve years down the line and I think they may very well have moved on from Amaral's botched investigation. Certainly Rebelo did.
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Scotland Yard and the Judicial police are both engaged in an active investigation of Madeleine's case. I am sure if media assistance is required they will see to asking for it.
I doubt very much that anything you have mentioned above would be of interest to them as both forces have already carried out intensive reviews of all materials from that time and no doubt have already dealt with it.
After all ... it is twelve years down the line and I think they may very well have moved on from Amaral's botched investigation. Certainly Rebelo did.
I would suggest SY are merely treading water,if Brexit happens then what?
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I would suggest SY are merely treading water,if Brexit happens then what?
You can live in hope.
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You can live in hope.
Nope,realism is where its at.
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I would suggest SY are merely treading water,if Brexit happens then what?
I can't see Brexit having much impact on this.
European Arrest Warrants won't apply, but I doubt they would be used anyway.
Data sharing will be restricted, but this is more to do with automatic access to databases, rather than cooperation between individual forces.
Other than that, both forces can continue being busy doing nothing from now until the money dries up.
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No, from what Fiona says in her rogatory interview I believe Kate had told Madeleine where she could find mum and dad, so no need to cry, just the need to get there.
Crying only makes the walking more difficult.
We are talking about a 3 year old toddler still, aren't we? Cold, no shoes........stiff upper lip now Maddie, come on now!
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We are talking about a 3 year old toddler still, aren't we? Cold, no shoes........stiff upper lip now Maddie, come on now!
Madeleine was ten days short of four years old and she wasn't a toddler.
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We are talking about a 3 year old toddler still, aren't we? Cold, no shoes........stiff upper lip now Maddie, come on now!
Maddie was quite the BIG sister, being responsible for herself and siblings while mummy and daddy were out socialising. The evidence being she complained about being left alione and Sean was crying. she was obviously concerned being left alone in the house. So the parents took that on board and left them again the next night?
well something happened to Maddie.
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We are talking about a 3 year old toddler still, aren't we? Cold, no shoes........stiff upper lip now Maddie, come on now!
Someone told us recently that Madeleine leapt into the sea to rescue some friend's sunhat. To me she is a lot braver than we imagine.
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Tuesday or Wednesday, does it make it any better? - they were still left.
I remember Gerry first bringing up the ‘fact’ that Madeleine had come through to his and Kate’s bedroom, on the one year round of interviews and I remember thinking that it was claimed to muddy the water around Mrs Fenn’s statement. For some it appears to have worked.
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I remember Gerry first bringing up the ‘fact’ that Madeleine had come through to his and Kate’s bedroom, on the one year round of interviews and I remember thinking that it was claimed to muddy the water around Mrs Fenn’s statement. For some it appears to have worked.
Any explanation how Gerry was able to read Mrs Fenn's statement before the case was archived and the police files revealed?
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Kate began her book after the files were released. That's when she said she looked out of the window @)(++(*
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What is more important is that Kate began her book after the files were released. That's when she said she looked out of the window @)(++(*
So you wouldn't have looked out of the window? No, probably not.
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Could we be trying to get the media to ask the right questions? I think we have the right elements.
1. Sniffer dogs that track her from the front door to the car park opposite the secondary reception.
2. The arrival of a manager between 9:30 - 10:00 PM who could have insisted no more people come into the Tapas area unless they were clients so closed the door.
3. Fiona reporting that Kate discussed letting Madeleine come over to the Tapas if she woke up.
4. Reports of someone calling out for Madeleine much earlier than the alarm raised by Kate.
5. The report to the night creche nannies allow them the arrive in time to see the window open and shutters
up.
6. Confirmation from Kate that it was improbable that Madeleine left via the rear patio door. The McCanns don't mention the possibility of exiting the front door.
For what seems the millionth time, that is not unusual - that was Maddy's normal route to and from the creche all week. The dogs found her normal route crossing from the car park lamp post to the tapas entrance.
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For what seems the millionth time, that is not unusual - that was Maddy's normal route to and from the creche all week. The dogs found her normal route crossing from the car park lamp post to the tapas entrance.
I think your case would be stronger if the sniffer dogs tracked her all the way back to the creche at the main reception.
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Any explanation how Gerry was able to read Mrs Fenn's statement before the case was archived and the police files revealed?
He was asked about it in his arguido interview.
When asked if on the night of May 1, 2007 he went to have dinner at the Tapas with Kate, he says yes. As customary they would come and check on the children every half hour, usually alternating. They arrived at the Tapas around 20:30, and then went to the apartment every half hour, until they arrived back, at around 23:00, plus or minus 10 minutes. Occasionally one of the others in the group made the check, he does not remember if this happened on the 1st. It is not true that Madeleine had been crying that night for an hour and 15 minutes, because she was not alone all that time.
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I remember Gerry first bringing up the ‘fact’ that Madeleine had come through to his and Kate’s bedroom, on the one year round of interviews and I remember thinking that it was claimed to muddy the water around Mrs Fenn’s statement. For some it appears to have worked.
If you mean me Faithlilly, Mrs Fenn said she heard a child crying, then it got louder and then a child cried Daddy. Amelie awoke crying, waking Sean who cried then Madeleine called Daddy and went into their bedroom. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Any explanation how Gerry was able to read Mrs Fenn's statement before the case was archived and the police files revealed?
Mrs Fenn's crying report was in circulation, before she was interviewed.
I don't know when it went MSM, but I would be astounded to find it was not before K&G were arguidoed.
I've never been interested enough to dig into this one in detail. I was tracking when the Scandal At Chaplins story first emerged. That one was before Mrs Fenn's statement. It just so happened that the Crying Incident and the alleged Scandal At Chaplins appeared in the same comment on an MSM article, though that comment was quickly erased.
The alleged Scandal At Chaplins is still a hot favourite. My blog article on it regularly holds the #1 number of 'views in the last week'. And lunch friends who elect to raise this point are firmly of the opinion that it happened. Whereas my blog entry comes out strongly that it did not, complete with reasons why not.
Here's another snippet of information. Word on the street is that Chaplins is being replaced by a Chinese restaurant.
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Mrs Fenn's crying report was in circulation, before she was interviewed.
I don't know when it went MSM, but I would be astounded to find it was not before K&G were arguidoed.
I've never been interested enough to dig into this one in detail. I was tracking when the Scandal At Chaplins story first emerged. That one was before Mrs Fenn's statement. It just so happened that the Crying Incident and the alleged Scandal At Chaplins appeared in the same comment on an MSM article, though that comment was quickly erased.
The alleged Scandal At Chaplins is still a hot favourite. My blog article on it regularly holds the #1 number of 'views in the last week'. And lunch friends who elect to raise this point are firmly of the opinion that it happened. Whereas my blog entry comes out strongly that it did not, complete with reasons why not.
Here's another snippet of information. Word on the street is that Chaplins is being replaced by a Chinese restaurant.
Cite for Mrs fenns statement being in circulation.... You seem to be claiming more and note as facts which have no basis in fact...
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Cite for Mrs fenns statement being in circulation.... You seem to be claiming more and note as facts which have no basis in fact...
I never said her statement was in circulation before she gave her statement. That would be an oxymoron.
I said her crying story was in circulation before she gave her statement.
Besides which, the key date is the first anniversary. You might wish to re-read the last 15 posts or so.
*&(+(+
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I think that Gerry should have been doing all of the checking. I really don't understand why he didn't. There is a limit to equality.
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I think that Gerry should have been doing all of the checking. I really don't understand why he didn't. There is a limit to equality.
If the narrative is to be believed, then I wholeheartedly agree.
A husband is happy for his wife to apparently traipse back and to along dimly lit streets, all that way?
Although, am I right in recalling that Kate only got up once from the table on the fateful night?
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If the narrative is to be believed, then I wholeheartedly agree.
A husband is happy for his wife to apparently traipse back and two along dimly lit streets, all that way?
Although, am I right in recalling that Kate only got up once from the table on the fateful night?
How many times Kate got up is irrelevant. She shouldn't have had to, In My Opinion.
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How many times Kate got up is irrelevant. She shouldn't have had to, In My Opinion.
I just said that.
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I just said that.
So why bother to mention that Kate only went once? We all know why.
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So why bother to mention that Kate only went once? We all know why.
Well OK, I'll elaborate. We're agreed that the husband should do all of the checking, but in terms of risk mitigation / exposure for Kate, if she only goes once, then the risk of something happening to her is minimised exponentially. ie. fewer visits = fewer risks.
So actually, by definition, I'm defending Gerry, as generally, if the timeline is to be believed, then the males took that in to consideration to a degree = not enough for us who wouldn't want the females checking at all, but better than sending the little wifeys to check the kids that they may have proposed.
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If you mean me Faithlilly, Mrs Fenn said she heard a child crying, then it got louder and then a child cried Daddy. Amelie awoke crying, waking Sean who cried then Madeleine called Daddy and went into their bedroom. Makes perfect sense to me.
Of course it does.....and that’s what was hoped.
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Well OK, I'll elaborate. We're agreed that the husband should do all of the checking, but in terms of risk mitigation / exposure for Kate, if she only goes once, then the risk of something happening to her is minimised exponentially. ie. fewer visits = fewer risks.
So actually, by definition, I'm defending Gerry, as generally, if the timeline is to be believed, then the males took that in to consideration to a degree = not enough for us who wouldn't want the females checking at all, but better than sending the little wifeys to check the kids that they may have proposed.
Nothing little about "Wifeys". I just think that the men should have been doing the checking.
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Of course it does.....and that’s what was hoped.
Maybe it was true, you seem to ignore everything the McCann's said, as it doesn't fit with what you believe.
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Maybe it was true, you seem to ignore everything the McCann's said, as it doesn't fit with what you believe.
And maybe it wasn’t...you seem to believe everything the parents say even when it’s disputed by the testimony of independent witnesses.
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I think your case would be stronger if the sniffer dogs tracked her all the way back to the creche at the main reception.
The reason is explained in the files - the car park is a big area so harder to track. If they kept on the path route from the car park they would have found her scent again.
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The reason is explained in the files - the car park is a big area so harder to track. If they kept on the path route from the car park they would have found her scent again.
Are you saying that The Dogs failed?
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One dog crossed from the car park and went to the tapas/secondary reception entrance which was closed at the time. Madeleine crossed there to go to high tea on 3 May 2007 so that dog was correct. They were tracking her scent but it got harder at the crossing point in the car park which is a big area as explained in the PJ files.
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One dog crossed from the car park and went to the tapas/secondary reception entrance which was closed at the time. Madeleine crossed there to go to high tea on 3 May 2007 so that dog was correct. They were tracking her scent but it got harder at the crossing point in the car park which is a big area as explained in the PJ files.
So what happened with the dogs?
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- He remembers that on the 4th of May of the current year, around 23H00, they attempted to tentatively identify and thus reconstruct the path taken by the missing minor. They gave the dogs a Turkish bath towel which was supposedly used by the child in question. This operation was realised by two different dogs.
- That after having smelt the aforementioned towel, next to the residence of the missing girl, more specifically next to block 5’s apartment 5A, the first tracker-dog headed toward the door of that apartment, soon whirled about in the direction of block 4, bypassing block 5 along a route (the corridor) that goes around that block and gives unto a path that runs between this block and the resort’s leisure area (pools, restaurants, etc). The dog went into the path on the left, heading toward the main road (Francisco Gentil Martins). Once there, he crossed the street and close to block 6’s wall, turned right, heading toward the contiguous parking area, more particularly toward a light post where he sniffed the ground. After this, he crossed the street again and headed toward the resort’s access zone, sniffing the door which was closed at that time. He again went to the parking zone, but finally lost interest in the search, i.e lost the scent.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANTONIO_SILVA.htm
The first dog would have followed her scent through the door if it was not closed. As it was closed he lost it!
No abductor would take her to the secondary reception ?>)()<
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A quick reminder this holiday weekend to keep posts on topic, factual but above all, convivial.
Happy Easter everyone!
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I never said her statement was in circulation before she gave her statement. That would be an oxymoron.
I said her crying story was in circulation before she gave her statement.
Besides which, the key date is the first anniversary. You might wish to re-read the last 15 posts or so.
*&(+(+
you said her crying report......as its basically the same thing...you are making lots of claims as facts when they seem to be nothing more than your opinion...so is this fact or gossip...id say definitely gossip
do you or do you not have a cite for this claim
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you said her crying report......as its basically the same thing...you are making lots of claims as facts when they seem to be nothing more than your opinion...so is this fact or gossip...id say definitely gossip
do you or do you not have a cite for this claim
First, her statement was not in the MSM, as my post clearly pointed out.
Second, as I also clearly pointed out, the relevant comment was quickly expunged from the MSM. So why are you asking for a cite? That's another oxymoron.
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First, her statement was not in the MSM, as my post clearly pointed out.
Second, as I also clearly pointed out, the relevant comment was quickly expunged from the MSM. So why are you asking for a cite? That's another oxymoron.
so where is the evidence to show your claim is true...when did you start following the case
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I think that Gerry should have been doing all of the checking. I really don't understand why he didn't. There is a limit to equality.
Gerry was not a hands on father- he left much of it all to Kate. It seems strange that Kate being a GP and Gerry a mere sports clinician, that Kate had to go part time ...She would have been on a better wage than him.
It was Kate who was worried and concerned about leaving the children alone again..Gerry being the man- took the descision that it is fine. even after their daughter challenged them about being left alone when one of them was crying... nice loving father that!
PS He is not a heart surgeon as some claim, or stupid people get confused about.
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Gerry was not a hands on father- he left much of it all to Kate. It seems strange that Kate being a GP and Gerry a mere sports clinician, that Kate had to go part time ...She would have been on a better wage than him.
It was Kate who was worried and concerned about leaving the children alone again..Gerry being the man- took the descision that it is fine. even after their daughter challenged them about being left alone when one of them was crying... nice loving father that!
PS He is not a heart surgeon as some claim, or stupid people get confused about.
Cite for "a mere sports clinician" please.
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Cite for "a mere sports clinician" please.
His degree was in sports- he worked at Celtic football club in some capacity- not a cardiolagistat that time. He moved onto do that later... I was comparing Kate and Gerrys education. IMO Kate being the more educationally intellegent. and Gerry being a glasgow alpha male wouldn't quite like that.
The medical faternity know more about him that you do perhaps?
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His degree was in sports- he worked at Celtic football club in some capacity- not a cardiolagistat that time. He moved onto do that later... I was comparing Kate and Gerrys education. IMO Kate being the more educationally intellegent. and Gerry being a glasgow alpha male wouldn't quite like that.
The medical faternity know more about him that you do perhaps?
According to Kate he embarked on research for an MD in exercise physiology at Glasgow's Western Infirmary in 1996. She joined him there in 1997, moving into anaesthetics and being promoted to registrar. They moved to Leicestershire in 2000 so he could train in Cardiology. I don't know if he got his MD.
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so where is the evidence to show your claim is true...when did you start following the case
I have posted this already. It's also on my blog. It was June 2014, when I found it incredible that OG was actually digging up central Luz.
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I have posted this already. It's also on my blog. It was June 2014, when I found it incredible that OG was actually digging up central Luz.
you might find it incredible but i have more faith in Grange than you
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you might find it incredible but i have more faith in Grange than you
I don't find it incredible that someone who has never visited Luz reckons he has more faith than what I have learned from years of living in Luz.
That's a &%%6
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I don't find it incredible that someone who has never visited Luz reckons he has more faith than what I have learned from years of living in Luz.
That's a &%%6
from your posts I have far more faith in Grange.....you didnt seem aware that amici has changed hands several times making your claim taht grange should have questioned them redundant
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I have posted this already. It's also on my blog. It was June 2014, when I found it incredible that OG was actually digging up central Luz.
By digging up, do you mean reopening the filled in drains or was this an excavation of the main sewerage system?
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you might find it incredible but i have more faith in Grange than you
If you were going to hide something not to be found, it's more likely that you would go out of town and away from people to do it. If you had a property to use then that's another possibility.
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By digging up, do you mean reopening the filled in drains or was this an excavation of the main sewerage system?
Digging up by means of picks and shovels, by hand.
Those who have lived here will be able to confirm that by June, the ground is akin to concrete. We are in late April, and the ground is already like concrete. Farmers plow the soil with the equivalent of jackhammers attached to the rear, because the earth is baked solid.
As to the drains, I believe they inspected non-closed water tunnels. The type of thing that is fitted under, say, a driveway, to ensure that flowing rainwater does not erode the driveway. I have only seen concrete pipes.
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If you were going to hide something not to be found, it's more likely that you would go out of town and away from people to do it. If you had a property to use then that's another possibility.
"British Police say the new witness claims to have seen the mystery man enter the shop in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz with a youngster who looked like the missing girl."
I wonder if they ever got to search that shop, and why only The Express reported on the 'new witness'?
Probably because the story was a load of old tosh imo
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/486840/Madeleine-McCann-police-to-send-in-sniffer-dogs
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His degree was in sports- he worked at Celtic football club in some capacity- not a cardiolagistat that time. He moved onto do that later... I was comparing Kate and Gerrys education. IMO Kate being the more educationally intellegent. and Gerry being a glasgow alpha male wouldn't quite like that.
The medical faternity know more about him that you do perhaps?
I'm not the one claiming factual information but I do know that during his time in New Zealand Gerry worked in general medicine and cardiology.
Kate McCann MADELEINE
You are the one making all the claims which require cites. In the short post you've made above three are required - degree was in sports
- he worked at Celtic football club
- being a glasgow alpha male wouldn't quite like that.
Please substantiate the alleged information you post with links. Thank you.
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"British Police say the new witness claims to have seen the mystery man enter the shop in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz with a youngster who looked like the missing girl."
I wonder if they ever got to search that shop, and why only The Express reported on the 'new witness'?
Probably because the story was a load of old tosh imo
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/486840/Madeleine-McCann-police-to-send-in-sniffer-dogs
Dunno but Ali Superstore is close to the sighting opposite the church.
10-12 - One plastic bag from the "Alisuper" supermarket containing various items of clothing, namely one (01) checkered shirt, two (02) pairs of trousers and three (03) empty and torn bin bags.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUNDRYS.htm
(http://www.macpherson-neil.co.uk/JustLuz/images/shops/Alisuper2.jpg)
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Dunno but Ali Superstore is close to the sighting opposite the church.
10-12 - One plastic bag from the "Alisuper" supermarket containing various items of clothing, namely one (01) checkered shirt, two (02) pairs of trousers and three (03) empty and torn bin bags.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUNDRYS.htm
(http://www.macpherson-neil.co.uk/JustLuz/images/shops/Alisuper2.jpg)
Is that a freezer on the pavement *%6^