Author Topic: The less talked about sighting on N’battle Rd by M O’Sullivan & D Hamilton...  (Read 34004 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Maybe there were two fires in the Mitchell garden that evening

Mrs Mitchell said she might have burnt some grass at the time but did not use the burner.’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4174661.stm

She agreed with a statement which her son later gave to a psychiatrist following Jodi's death in which he said he had a short temper.

‘She also agreed that her son had described himself to the doctor as having a short fuse.’
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline William Wallace

It was accepted by the court that the woodburner had been used to dispose of Mitchell's jacket.  And although it was never determined what had happened to Mitchell's skunking knife in the absence of explanation what happened to it, that was accepted too.

It was accepted that the sightings of Luke introduced by the prosecution were evidence that it was him.  I believe because different sightings fitted the jigsaw of timeframe evidence.


Isn't it odd that two vital pieces of evidence vanished to be replaced by Corrine Mitchell with two identical items.

Yes it would be really easy to burn a large Parka jacket in a woodburner that was 10-12 inches at each side......if it was a Parka for a 3 year old. Why would he be burning anything anyway, didn't he clean up in the river and throw all the clothes away, then walk back to the house with nothing on?

Offline Brietta

Yes it would be really easy to burn a large Parka jacket in a woodburner that was 10-12 inches at each side......if it was a Parka for a 3 year old. Why would he be burning anything anyway, didn't he clean up in the river and throw all the clothes away, then walk back to the house with nothing on?

Don't be silly ... he might have attracted attention had he tried a naked walk home 😁

Do you think for a millisecond that the jacket was bundled into the burner in one piece?  The best way of doing it would to have been to cut it into pieces to feed into the fire piece by piece.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Maybe there were two fires in the Mitchell garden that evening

Mrs Mitchell said she might have burnt some grass at the time but did not use the burner.’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4174661.stm

I think only the woodburner was used.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 01:05:16 PM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Myster

The Mitchell log burner...
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline faithlilly

Not at all - I am more interested in why this witness was called. Also:

 Interested in all of these people, duplicates of each other to boot - wearing heavier outer garments on what was (claimed to be) a warm summers evenings?/ Where not one but the two heads of this campaign - were both enjoying the summer sunshine out on the patio? An author who uses this warm summers evening as an intro to her book? And of the arms and legs that get added to information - a path entrance or a gate? A green thick padded bomber jacket from around 6pm or parka at 5.40pm - So do we have 4 people on Newbattle R'd - That one sighting in the parka by F&W at the gate around 5.40pm, the twin further down - Then we jump to 6pm when he put himself on Newbattle R'd and we have two males on this R'd at the same time with this green padded bomber jacket on. -This sighting not quite where LM admitted to walking - used to show yet again he was lying? and DF saying, well, wait a minute, it was not my client, as they did not ID him, Just his jacket? - It pays to add all of the information, does it not? - of course not, why would one. For LM was yet again lying.

So whilst this witness was called by the Crown, to show that the likelihood of two males, both wearing the same jacket around 6pm on the same stretch of road - was in fact LM, and he had lied as to how far he had walked on this R'd. 

We all know that the jacket was disposed of after the sighting by F&W. We know LM was just minutes from his home. We know he needed an alibi, we know he needed to be seen and he was from approx 6pm until just after 6.15pm. - And we know he vanished completely from this time until he met with the boys at 7.30pm.

You start on a false premise...RW did not say that the individual she saw was wearing a parka. She said ‘ If I was to describe what type of jacket I’d say a parka but that’s really just because of the length’. LF didn’t mention the type of jacket. She did however say that they left to go shopping at 6.

Just before 6pm MO’S and her partner DH saw a youth wearing a green bomber jacket. He was at a gate on the Newbattle Road.

At 6 or just before Luke was identified sitting at the end of his street by people who knew him wearing a green bomber jacket, baggy jeans and light coloured snowboarding boots.

We were told by CM on the JE podcast that Luke while waiting wondered down to Barondale cottages which are, I believe, just off of the Newbattle Road. The youth was seen “ at a gate on the Newbattle Road, ” Doesn’t Barondale cottages have a gate into the properties?

With the similarity in clothing Luke was more than likely the individual seen by MO’S and DH. What this proves? The fallibility of eyewitness evidence.

What else does the above tell us? Luke would have had no time between the RW and LF sighting to get home, get changed and be at a gate on the Newbattle Road to be seen by MO’S and DH.

If Jodi was murdered at 5.15 I have no idea why you feel Luke needed an alibi beyond 6pm. We know that at 6, if the individual seen by MO’S was Luke, he had the clothes on that would be taken by the police later, bomber jacket etc. Any contact after that with anything from the murder site would risk contaminating the clothes that he was wearing. After, allegedly, being so forensically aware that there was not a spec of Jodi’s DNA on him or his DNA at the murder site, do you really think that he would have risked that?

By 7pm Luke was at Newbattle Abbey where he called his mum to tell her that if Jodi turned up to direct her to the Abbey.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 12:32:39 AM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Two witnesses see a young man on the Newbattle Road. One with a jacket on that Luke was never seen wearing ‘ not a parka but similar because of the length’ and one a green bomber jacket which we know Luke had worn that evening. Both sightings within minutes of each other.

What are we to make of this?

From the 2008 appeal decision.

‘ 28] The last text was sent at about 1640. The appellant's position was that, thereafter, he had listened to music while cooking dinner. His mother arrived home at 1715. The witness Shane Mitchell was not in the house at this time. He waited at the house for the deceased. He left at around 1730 or 1740, as she had not arrived. He waited at the entrance to the estate on Newbattle Road, moving between that point and a track at Barndale Cottages, closer to the west end of the path. He had walked further along the road at one point to see if he could see the deceased. As he was standing at Barndale Cottages he had seen boys whom he knew from school. He had waited for around 45 minutes. Thereafter, he had wandered into Newbattle Abbey walking up and down a path, wasting time. He then contacted David High and made arrangements to meet him.’

This further gives lie to the claim that Luke went further than he claimed....or that he arrived at the Abbey at 7.30.

The sighting by MO’S verifies completely what Luke claimed he had done on the evening of the 30th while waiting for Jodi.

‘ a male who looked "suspicious" standing at a pathway entrance on Newbattle Road, Dalkeith, just before 6pm on the day Jodi died.’

There is a small pathway into Barndale cottages with a gate at the end.

And again ‘ She said the man, who was in his "late teens or early 20s", was wearing a green bomber jacket and dark jeans.’

Just what Luke was wearing.

That she said that it wasn’t Luke, when the resemblance is uncanny, simply proves the fallibility of eyewitness testimony.



« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 11:46:43 AM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

Two witnesses see a young man on the Newbattle Road. One with a jacket on that Luke was never seen wearing ‘ not a parka but similar because of the length’ and one a green bomber jacket which we know Luke had worn that evening. Both sightings within minutes of each other.

What are we to make of this?

From the 2008 appeal decision.

‘ 28] The last text was sent at about 1640. The appellant's position was that, thereafter, he had listened to music while cooking dinner. His mother arrived home at 1715. The witness Shane Mitchell was not in the house at this time. He waited at the house for the deceased. He left at around 1730 or 1740, as she had not arrived. He waited at the entrance to the estate on Newbattle Road, moving between that point and a track at Barndale Cottages, closer to the west end of the path. He had walked further along the road at one point to see if he could see the deceased. As he was standing at Barndale Cottages he had seen boys whom he knew from school. He had waited for around 45 minutes. Thereafter, he had wandered into Newbattle Abbey walking up and down a path, wasting time. He then contacted David High and made arrangements to meet him.’

This further gives lie to the claim that Luke went further than he claimed....or that he arrived at the Abbey at 7.30.

The sighting by MO’S verifies completely what Luke claimed he had done on the evening of the 30th while waiting for Jodi.

‘ a male who looked "suspicious" standing at a pathway entrance on Newbattle Road, Dalkeith, just before 6pm on the day Jodi died.’

There is a small pathway into Barndale cottages with a gate at the end.

And again ‘ She said the man, who was in his "late teens or early 20s", was wearing a green bomber jacket and dark jeans.’

Just what Luke was wearing.

That she said that it wasn’t Luke, when the resemblance is uncanny, simply proves the fallibility of eyewitness testimony.

He could have had one jacket on top of the other or had one concealed - Didn’t one of the witness say his pockets appeared bulging or something ?

She described the male as wearing a khaki green, hip-length, fishing-style jacket. Its collar was up, and it had a pocket which was bulging. She subsequently picked out a photograph of Mitchell although did not identify him at court. https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2021/02/evidence-that-convinced-a-jury-of-luke-mitchells-guilt/
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 01:08:26 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Parky41

Quote
Two witnesses see a young man on the Newbattle Road. One with a jacket on that Luke was never seen wearing ‘ not a parka but similar because of the length’ and one a green bomber jacket which we know Luke had worn that evening. Both sightings within minutes of each other.

This further gives lie to the claim that Luke went further than he claimed....or that he arrived at the Abbey at 7.30.

The sighting by MO’S verifies completely what Luke claimed he had done on the evening of the 30th while waiting for Jodi.

‘ a male who looked "suspicious" standing at a pathway entrance on Newbattle Road, Dalkeith, just before 6pm on the day Jodi died.’

There is a small pathway into Barndale cottages with a gate at the end.

And again ‘ She said the man, who was in his "late teens or early 20s", was wearing a green bomber jacket and dark jeans.’

Just what Luke was wearing.

That she said that it wasn’t Luke, when the resemblance is uncanny, simply proves the fallibility of eyewitness testimony

Firstly from what you first stated - this just minutes between. These sightings were anywhere in the region of 17-20mins between. They were never inclusive of the sighting by F&W. You really need to make your mind up about this Parka - it was or it wasn't. - The trouble with these multiple areas of reasoning - they are as hot as a cat's paws on a tin roof. As was LM's testimony from the early hours of July 1st. - One needs to be consistent. And at no point have I, or anyone else claimed, that I have seen - That LM arrived at the Abbey at 7.30pm.  What has always been maintained by myself, is this time period of 5.32pm until 7.30pm when he met with the boys in the Abbey grounds. 

That LM in that split moment of having just crossed Newbattle R'd was spotted once by F&W, at around 5.40pm at thee gate.
You either accept the parka here or you don't - you either agree with SL or you don't. That MK was out jogging with a parka on and that he was LM's twin - which gives us two people who looked identical on Newbattle Road at the same time. Or you twist this sighting to 'if is was to choose a Jacket I'd pick the parka' as meaning it was not. 

Of these sightings multiple times - in that small frame of time. From around 6pm until 6.15pm. -  That when he needed to be seen, to be waiting for Jodi, he was seen multiple times in and around 15-20mins, from around 6pm. That's quite some some doing is it not? To be seen that many times, twice by the same boys - yet nothing, by his reckoning from 5.32pm until nearly 6pm. - and around 6.15pm until in the boys company at 7.30pm.

He is (claiming) on this road, at it's busiest time. And by your reckoning seen by no-one until nearly 6pm, not even his own brother. And we know that he, by his admission was at the entrance of this estate, when he made the call to the Jones's, at 5.32pm. And we know by the above, by the boys from school etc - That he did not go near Barondale Cottages until between 6pm until 6.15pm. (at Barondale and the entrance of the estate) And there is no gate at these cottages visible from the Road? So please, do not attempt to tie these sightings together. It was not an entrance, pathway and a gate rolled into one. So we have no sighting by SM when he left his house, not on his drive to the entrance and upon his exit onto Newbattle R'd did he see his brother LM.  LM was not at the entrance of his estate and from his house at 5.30pm until around 6pm. And outwith this sighting by F&W there is nothing that puts him on Newbattle R'd until around 6pm.

*The trouble with this ambiguity of changing from a path (Mr Apples and RDP), the gate (F&W)  First there is no gate at Barondale cottage. There is a drive/ entrance. This pathway is the continuation of the Esk Walk way.This entrance is just down from the gate by F&W and between the entrance to the cottage and here. Clearly signposted with the usual walkway, green sign. As it is at the West End of RDP itself.

This tells us how busy this R'd was at this time of day. That from around 6.15pm until he was actually in the presence of these boys in the Abbey - there is nothing, not a snifter of LM. - Nothing on Newbattle R'd, nothing in the Abbey. This is not only a residential college it is also an industrial estate. Cars and people coming and going at all times. - Fluke perhaps? What is a fluke and a blessing was it not - That in that brief moment of having to cross this R'd, of needing to get rid of that clothing. He was spotted by F&W.

From this sighting by F&W, does one imagine that LM would simply doddle home for a change. He needed off this road and out of sight. He could have accessed this woodland from behind the gate. An area he knew like the back of his hand. Just down from this gate and up from Barondale cottages is the continuation of the Esk Walk way. In this wood land there are many smaller paths. There are several entrances along here, into the estate where LM stayed. And one can mock as much as one must - There is nothing better than an area of dense woodland, and a river for initial cleansing. For his feet, hands, face hair. And no one is suggesting that at this point he took the time to do lots of things, time was very much of the essence. LM needed a change of clothing, and he needed to be seen, to be seen waiting for Jodi.When one wants to talk of mere minutes - mere minutes is all that was required - this 17mins plus. To spend a little time at this river, to dash home. To access his back garden - this only becomes undoable when we have these claims, that he was soaked in blood, that he entered his house as such in this state. That he showered to remove this blood he is imagined to be dripping with - He simply was not was he? F&W in that instant picked up on no blood. They did however pick up on how dodgy he appeared. We do not even know if LM had entered his house at all? do we? - We know he needed help, and we know there was burning going on at different intervals, over the course of the evening. That outer clothing very much kept out of the house? Did his mother hand him clean clothing? - This detached home with a garage on one side and a pathway on the other? 

And for all of this one can go into Google Earth - they can see this gate (metal now), they can see the Esk walkway sign and entrance and they can see Barondale cottage and they can also see his house - the garage and the path. LM's house pretty sheltered at the front also, trees and shrubbery. It would have taken LM less than a minute to dash from this woodland to his front garden. - What is interesting however, is this sighting at this path entrance around 6pm. Back through the woods? Planking the knife? - however, those timings. We know at a brisk walk only, it takes less than 7mins to get from LM's house to this path. One can cut this time considerably when one is running, through this woodland, can they not. By quite a bit. Half the time. - And it was doable, as LM did it - he was certainly proven to have. But most came after this did it not? - that missing time frame, from around 6.15pm. Of getting the story set in motion. Of this claimed arrival home at around 9pm. Of being seen entering his house at 10pm. Of Jodi not being discovered over the course of this evening. Of it getting to a certain time then setting this search story in place. - scuppered by the meet of the search trio - on this path. As stated also. It is one thing going into a rage and killing someone in that heat of the moment - it is entirely different covering up - So many factors were already set firmly in motion - That earlier meet, only the beginning.   

And we are also forgetting all and everything else - Those lies, that story of alibi, of claiming to have been meeting with Jodi at 6pm. Of not calling back. Of in reality being on this Road for nearly 90mins waiting not 45mins. Of calling the boys back, of looking cleaner than usual. Of this isolated path he claimed she was walking and did not appear at the other end of. Of Jodi leaving at a much earlier time for this meet. And this is only a fraction of the information - of AB, of the male looking confrontational. These palms out turned beckoning the girl. Of the missing knife with the brown handle -- and so much more. And of these claims in recent times, of LM not wearing jackets, he hated them. Of the picture with multiple jackets on his bedroom door. Of wearing this thick blouson jkt on this 'sunny warm summers night' Of not just wanting any old jacket, it had to be a parka, bought due to it being in a sale. Of the cock and bull story of the knife handed into Beumont - that CM claimed was in a bag under the dog stand - of this professional search team, running their fingers through the dogs dinner, and missing the bag beside them. That this knife was a replacement bought online. Did they not have any brown handled ones in stock? - Of trying to replace these items in some vain hope that this would go unnoticed - of the vixen in the hen house. Of the police watching the Mitchells, Of being there to ask what shopping had been bought - Oh, guess what, it's a parka.  See the trouble with this Faithlilly - is the police had not asked LM about a parka jacket by this point. LM knew however he needed to replace it.

And as stated, there is so much more - tunnel vision indeed?  And we can see clearly why, he remained suspect. Why one family was believed over the other. - For one was clearly lying from the start.   


Offline William Wallace


IMO, we don't "all know" anything regarding the disposal of a jacket belonging to LM. How can we "all know" that it was this that was being burned in the Mitchells' back garden? There was no evidence found, just evidence that the Mitchells lit their woodburner.

We certainly don't know whether the various sightings of Luke WERE of Luke, apart from the one sighting by someone who actually knew him.

Agreed. Do you know what destroys this forum? People who are not only obsessed with trying to prove LM is guilty. but equally obsessed with posting "poppycock" such as he disposed of the jacket. If people would stick to facts and not their one sided opinion based on speculation the debate would be much healthier. Nobody really wants to hear the..........disposed of the jacket, burnt the jacket, cleaned himself in the river, Marilyn Manson fan yaya yada. All of that has already been proven to be FALSE, so you lot who keep doing it, give us a rest eh?

Offline William Wallace

The point is that a material witness denied that anything had been burned in it.

No it would not be difficult to carefully burn the type of jacket Mitchell was wearing - to collect the detritus after and to remove all trace of it.

 @)(++(* The woodburner was 12 inches by 10 inches. You couldn't burn a pair of shorts in that I'm afraid.

Offline William Wallace

Don't be silly ... he might have attracted attention had he tried a naked walk home 😁

Do you think for a millisecond that the jacket was bundled into the burner in one piece?  The best way of doing it would to have been to cut it into pieces to feed into the fire piece by piece.

Do you believe in the tooth fairy?

Offline Brietta

Agreed. Do you know what destroys this forum? People who are not only obsessed with trying to prove LM is guilty. but equally obsessed with posting "poppycock" such as he disposed of the jacket. If people would stick to facts and not their one sided opinion based on speculation the debate would be much healthier. Nobody really wants to hear the..........disposed of the jacket, burnt the jacket, cleaned himself in the river, Marilyn Manson fan yaya yada. All of that has already been proven to be FALSE, so you lot who keep doing it, give us a rest eh?

No-one on this forum is "trying to prove Mitchell guilty" of murdering Jodi.  That has already been achieved in the properly constituted legal setting of a court with judge and jury - and appeal courts in front of law lords - not in the kangaroo setting of the internet where anything goes.

Nothing destroys a forum more than unadulterated rudeness - perhaps it behoves you to give that some thought particularly as it also breaks forum protocol.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

@)(++(* The woodburner was 12 inches by 10 inches. You couldn't burn a pair of shorts in that I'm afraid.

No-one claimed he burned shorts although he might very well have done so.  The issue is that a particular jacket he was known to possess vanished as if in a puff of smoke and independent witnesses with no axe to grind confirmed that the log burner was used that night but emitting an odd smell - therefore definitely not logs.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Do you believe in the tooth fairy?

Merely pointing out that your suggestion that Mitchell walked naked to his house after murdering Jodi is a non starter and would definitely have attracted unwanted attention.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....