UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Myster on October 30, 2023, 06:56:06 AM
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A belated apology from the PJ, 16 years too late... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67229219 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67229219)
Portuguese police have apologised to the parents of Madeleine McCann for the way they handled the three-year-old's disappearance.
Madeleine went missing from a holiday complex in the Algarve in May 2007.
A delegation of senior officers travelled from Lisbon to London earlier this year, BBC Panorama has been told.
They met Gerry McCann, Madeleine's father, and apologised for the way detectives investigated the case and treated the family.
The McCann family has not commented on the apology and their daughter's disappearance remains unsolved.
And a BBC Panorama investigation into the chief suspect (not available to all you licence-dodger codgers out there)...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001rsgp (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001rsgp)
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A belated apology from the PJ, 16 years too late... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67229219 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67229219)
And a BBC Panorama investigation into the chief suspect (not available to all you licence-dodger codgers out there)...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001rsgp (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001rsgp)
This news will go down like a lead balloon in some quarters. I guess the UK government forced the pJ to apologise theough gritted teeth or something.
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While over on TwXXter the news hasn’t quite sunk in yet…
Oh yes. We're going to have street parties all over Portugal, Great Britain, and Germany 🇩🇪, when Kate and Bro Gerry #McCann are arrested for killing their own daughter.
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Should we be holding our breaths for a public apology from all the sceptics and trolls that have spent 16 years “only asking questions” about the McCanns? Only if we want to die of oxygen starvation I reckon.
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To gunit and all the other sceptics
Told you so
McCanns officially cleared..wonder what gonc will have to
say
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To gunit and all the other sceptics
Told you so
McCanns officially cleared..wonder what gonc will have to
say
Yes, where is G-Unit now? Perhaps she sensed this day was coming, or perhaps her day has sadly come. And, yes “McCanns Cleared” - it’s official.
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What does this say for grime and his dogs
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A belated apology from the PJ, 16 years too late... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67229219 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67229219)
And a BBC Panorama investigation into the chief suspect (not available to all you licence-dodger codgers out there)...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001rsgp (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001rsgp)
Good heavens. I'm amazed.
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What does this say for grime and his dogs
What does Grime have to say. That could be interesting. Probably nothing at all.
Still waiting for Amaral. Unless Portugal has finally shut him up. Although that is doubtful, what with Free Speach and all that.
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I am still trying to work out who is on who's side. But due to strict Moderation it is difficult to tell. Does it matter or not?
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This news will go down like a lead balloon in some quarters. I guess the UK government forced the pJ to apologise theough gritted teeth or something.
Nothing's changed really. There's nothing unequivocal in that statement, apart from the apology about how the case was handled - and I know why it was made at this time. Suffice to say it's political, if any of you care to do a bit of digging in to imminent EU machinations.
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Nothing's changed really. There's nothing unequivocal in that statement, apart from the apology about how the case was handled - and I know why it was made at this time. Suffice to say it's political, if any of you care to do a bit of digging in to imminent EU machinations.
Total and utter BS. Sceptics have still been saying the mccanns are still suspects and they hadnt been cleared..well clearly not suspects and are clearly cleared.
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Total and utter BS. Sceptics have still been saying the mccanns are still suspects and they hadnt been cleared..well clearly not suspects and are clearly cleared.
Nah, I'm just bustin' yer balls, Dave, see who bites one last time.
Looks like the game's up.
....not sure there's any need for the first bit though, kid.
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Didn't take long for the resident troll to attempt to spin this major piece of news into oblivion. "Nothing to see here, I still know who dunnit" - lol
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From Portuguese News:
“The case began by being investigated by inspector Gonçalo Amaral, who ended up removed after commenting on it publicly for a newspaper. The former inspector then published a book and a documentary accusing the McCann couple of having murdered their daughter and simulating an abduction. Gonçalo Amaral maintains this thesis to this day, despite the judicial process that opposed him to the McCann and which he ended up winning in September last year at the European Court of Human Rights. Still, the investigation hypothesis he raised was completely discredited by all the authorities involved. PJ itself, currently led by Luis Neves, remains on the side of the German police, considering that the only "credible" suspect is the German Christian Bruckner, who lived in Portugal between 1998 and 2017.“
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A belated apology from the PJ, 16 years too late... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67229219 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67229219)
Portuguese police have apologised to the parents of Madeleine McCann for the way they handled the three-year-old's disappearance.
Madeleine went missing from a holiday complex in the Algarve in May 2007.
A delegation of senior officers travelled from Lisbon to London earlier this year, BBC Panorama has been told.
They met Gerry McCann, Madeleine's father, and apologised for the way detectives investigated the case and treated the family.
The McCann family has not commented on the apology and their daughter's disappearance remains unsolved.
And a BBC Panorama investigation into the chief suspect (not available to all you licence-dodger codgers out there)...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001rsgp (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001rsgp)
Sounds like the Portuguese police want to wash their hands of this case and are pinning all their hopes on the Germans.
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Nah, I'm just bustin' yer balls, Dave, see who bites one last time.
Looks like the game's up.
....not sure there's any need for the first bit though, kid.
I must admit I should have realised you couldn't be serious....that would be daft
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Sounds like the Portuguese police want to wash their hands of this case and are pinning all their hopes on the Germans.
They didn't have to apologise...it's quite a surprise they actually did...but they've confirmed what some of us have been saying fir years.....PJ hadn't got a clue.....amaral was.a clown..grime and his dogs were a joke..And the McCanns have been cleared....it will be tough for any anti to expect
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They didn't have to apologise...it's quite a surprise they actually did...but they've confirmed what some of us have been saying fir years.....PJ hadn't got a clue.....amaral was.a clown..grime and his dogs were a joke..And the McCanns have been cleared....it will be tough for any anti to expect
I'm in broad agreement, apart from the dogs comment.
I'm happy to admit I was wrong. I'm wrong numerous times a day, so it comes as no surprise to anyone, least of all me.
I don't ruminate on the vagaries of the case. Not any more.
I'd like a conclusion either way.
It's been a shit-show from the outset; a bizarre one at that.
Maybe we can cultivate a more harmonious forum in light of the recent developments.
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I'm in broad agreement, apart from the dogs comment.
I'm happy to admit I was wrong. I'm wrong numerous times a day, so it comes as no surprise to anyone, least of all me.
I don't ruminate on the vagaries of the case. Not any more.
I'd like a conclusion either way.
It's been a shit-show from the outset; a bizarre one at that.
Maybe we can cultivate a more harmonious forum in light of the recent developments.
Welcome back..I delved into grime and his dogs leaving no stone unturned. As I have said many times before this I blame grime more than anyone..including amaral for his claims Re his dogs. It was reported that gtimr mesmerised Lenny Harper of the Jersey police with his claims of his dogs abilities and did the same in Portugal .
There were no 200 cases with a 100% record..the dogs were not the best in the world.
Ive said numerous times if the dogs were half as good as grime claimed then the McCanns were guilty..
So what did the dogs alert to...to the McCanns and noone else..looked like grime did cue them
..what other explanation is there..what does this say for the alerts in the Bianca Jones cade
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Sounds like the Portuguese police want to wash their hands of this case and are pinning all their hopes on the Germans.
What took them so long?
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Welcome back..I delved into grime and his dogs leaving no stone unturned. As I have said many times before this I blame grime more than anyone..including amaral for his claims Re his dogs. It was reported that gtimr mesmerised Lenny Harper of the Jersey police with his claims of his dogs abilities and did the same in Portugal .
There were no 200 cases with a 100% record..the dogs were not the best in the world.
Ive said numerous times if the dogs were half as good as grime claimed then the McCanns were guilty..
So what did the dogs alert to...to the McCanns and noone else..looked like grime did cue them
..what other explanation is there..what does this say for the alerts in the Bianca Jones cade
I don't think the dogs alerts generally or their use are flawed. It's not voodoo. As we've batted back and forth before, Professor Casella wrote many a paper on their efficacy. I just think there may have been misinterpretation, or if there were cues they were unintentional. I certainly don't think anything underhand took place. But who knows. It's all sort of irrelevant now, I suppose, but looking back it was the one facet that perhaps was most divisive. Certainly from a sceptical point of view it was hard to look past, irrespective of the contrary argument. But that's cognitive bias for you, coupled with a disdain for the parent perhaps.
Edit: This comment at the end of your post, that I just re-read, is telling: looked like grime did cue them
..what other explanation is there You're essentially agreeing that there is an explanation that needs to be found. As a sceptic I also needed an explanation for the dogs to be wrong for me to be wrong.
I'm not arguing, I'm just pointing out the same sticking point needed an answer from both sides and somebody was wrong, as is always the case.
I sort of knew last year that the weight of evidence was beginning to shift, but I'm an arsehole and decided that debating you was more fun than befriending you. This latest development has brought me out of the closet - it was a line in the sand. It may be damage limitation, time will tell, but something is in the wind Dav.
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What took them so long?
Probably a changing of the guard.
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I don't think the dogs alerts generally or their use are flawed. It's not voodoo. As we've batted back and forth before, Professor Casella wrote many a paper on their efficacy. I just think there may have been misinterpretation, or if there were cues they were unintentional. I certainly don't think anything underhand took place. But who knows. It's all sort of irrelevant now, I suppose, but looking back it was the one facet that perhaps was most divisive. Certainly from a sceptical point of view it was hard to look past, irrespective of the contrary argument. But that's cognitive bias for you, coupled with a disdain for the parent perhaps.
Edit: This comment at the end of your post, that I just re-read, is telling: looked like grime did cue them
..what other explanation is there You're essentially agreeing that there is an explanation that needs to be found. As a sceptic I also needed an explanation for the dogs to be wrong for me to be wrong.
I'm not arguing, I'm just pointing out the same sticking point needed an answer from both sides and somebody was wrong, as is always the case.
I sort of knew last year that the weight of evidence was beginning to shift, but I'm an arsehole and decided that debating you was more fun than befriending you. This latest development has brought me out of the closet - it was a line in the sand. It may be damage limitation, time will tell, but something is in the wind Dav.
I aways found you quite pleasant.and had as much respect for you as obviously do for me.
For the McCanns to be cleared there had to be an explanation as to the dogs alerts..I described them as worthless and explained why and how Grime got it so wrong
I can quite understand why gonc and the pj...and all.the [ censored word]....got things so wrong.
I saw through Grime and his attempt to build his cadaver dog business...
He really owes everyone an.apology and an explanation
Perhaps in trying to convince others how brilliant his dogs were he convinced himself..
I reckon it's enough to get bianca's father a retrial. I think he's probably guilty but wouldn't it be ironic if the vase was overturned on the admissibility of Grimes evidence.
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I suspect Grime would blame the PJ for not securing the apartment and allowing all sorts of different individuals to come and go and even stay in 5a prior to the arrival of his dogs. No doubt he would claim that one of them had transferred cadaver odour into the apartment (wittingly or not) and on the McCann clothes and car they handled.
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Anyway, after 16 years of this nonsense it’s good to know that finally the majority of the most hardened sceptics are finally beginning to wake up and smell the coffee. To mix in another metaphor it’s like the penny that was tossed in the well in 2008 when the McCanns were cleared of involvement only just hit the bottom today. It was obviously a very deep well!
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Only one side is on a loser here. And after some of the vile things that have been said about The McCanns over the years, will any of those be offering an apology? I will be content to accept if they do.
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Nothing's changed really. There's nothing unequivocal in that statement, apart from the apology about how the case was handled - and I know why it was made at this time. Suffice to say it's political, if any of you care to do a bit of digging in to imminent EU machinations.
An apology for how the case was handled. Exactly. Some seem to believe this means the McCanns are innocent. Why didn't the PJ just say that, if that's what they actually meant?
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Sounds like the Portuguese police want to wash their hands of this case and are pinning all their hopes on the Germans.
Aye. Just one more year & 5 unrelated trials to wait now.
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Only one side is on a loser here. And after some of the vile things that have been said about The McCanns over the years, will any of those be offering an apology? I will be content to accept if they do.
I promise I'll apologise for being nasty about the McCanns, just as soon Wolters reveals the concrete evidence. Seems like a fair trade to me. Not much longer to wait now.
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An apology for how the case was handled. Exactly. Some seem to believe this means the McCanns are innocent. Why didn't the PJ just say that, if that's what they actually meant?
Which part of this do you not understand?
From a Portuguese newspaper report today
The case began by being investigated by inspector Gonçalo Amaral, who ended up removed after commenting on it publicly for a newspaper. The former inspector then published a book and a documentary accusing the McCann couple of having murdered their daughter and simulating an abduction. Gonçalo Amaral maintains this thesis to this day, despite the judicial process that opposed him to the McCann and which he ended up winning in September last year at the European Court of Human Rights. Still, the investigation hypothesis he raised was completely discredited by all the authorities involved. PJ itself, currently led by Luis Neves, remains on the side of the German police, considering that the only "credible" suspect is the German Christian Bruckner, who lived in Portugal between 1998 and 2017.“
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More pointers from Wolters....the Germans found pictures and a video of poor MM at the box factory
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More pointers from Wolters....the Germans found pictures and a video of poor MM at the box factory
Yes. That'll be it. This time next year.
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[quote author=Wonderfulspam link=topic=12549.msg707986#msg707986 date=1698692997]
An apology for how the case was handled. Exactly. Some seem to believe this means the McCanns are innocent. Why didn't the PJ just say that, if that's what they actually meant?
Which part of this do you not understand?
From a Portuguese newspaper report today
The case began by being investigated by inspector Gonçalo Amaral, who ended up removed after commenting on it publicly for a newspaper. The former inspector then published a book and a documentary accusing the McCann couple of having murdered their daughter and simulating an abduction. Gonçalo Amaral maintains this thesis to this day, despite the judicial process that opposed him to the McCann and which he ended up winning in September last year at the European Court of Human Rights. Still, the investigation hypothesis he raised was completely discredited by all the authorities involved. PJ itself, currently led by Luis Neves, remains on the side of the German police, considering that the only "credible" suspect is the German Christian Bruckner, who lived in Portugal between 1998 and 2017.“
I don't understand two things. Firstly, why you haven't mastered the quote function & secondly, why McCann supporters continue to believe Madeleine was abducted in the total absence of tangible evidence.
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The PJ said this
Wolters said that
The McCanns said this
The MET said that
What's missing? Evidence.
Evidence MWTIACABAS, is still missing, today, just as it was yesterday, as will it be tomorrow.
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I don't understand two things. Firstly, why you haven't mastered the quote function & secondly, why McCann supporters continue to believe Madeleine was abducted in the total absence of tangible evidence.
Don’t worry about what we believe, ask yourself why three police forces believe it. Englisn, German, Portuguese. Explain it. Are they all
a) stupid
b) insane
c) part of a shadowy elite protecting two doctors from Rothley
d) on the right track
We know you are certain it’s not d so which one is it?
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Don’t worry about what we believe, ask yourself why three police forces believe it. Englisn, German, Portuguese. Explain it. Are they all
a) stupid
b) insane
c) part of a shadowy elite protecting two doctors from Rothley
d) on the right track
We know you are certain it’s not d so which one is it?
What do the three forces believe? That MWTIACABAS? Well I don't believe them, because I see no good reason to. Certainly, they haven't presented a shred of evidence MWTIACABAS, to support their belief.
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PJ police confirm “steps continuing” in case of missing Madeleine McCann
Detectives have reportedly “apologised” for handling of case
In a statement issued today, Portugal’s PJ judicial police have clarified that “steps are continuing” as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, “to fully clarify the situation”.
The statement comes after the BBC in UK reports that “Portuguese police have apologised to the parents of Madeleine McCann for the way they handled the three-year-old’s disappearance”.
None of this is mentioned in the PJ statement, which simply explains “that, as part of the investigation into the disappearance of an English child in the Algarve in 2007, steps are continuing to be taken to fully clarify the situation”.
The short text continues: “In this context, and as has been made public in due course, in close liaison with the German (BKA) and English (Metropolitan Police) authorities, formal investigation and forensic tests have been carried out in Portugal and abroad, as well as sharing information and revisiting testimonies.
“As is also normal in this type of situation and in line with good practice, face-to-face contacts were made with the relatives of the missing child, providing – only – the procedural situation within the scope of the ongoing inquiry pending before the Faro District Public Prosecutor’s Office”.
According to the BBC, “a delegation of senior officers travelled from Lisbon to London earlier this year. They met Gerry McCann, Madeleine’s father, and apologised for the way detectives investigated the case and treated the family.
“The McCann family has not commented on the apology and their daughter’s disappearance remains unsolved.
“Portuguese police now say their initial investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance was not handled properly, there was insufficient importance given at the time to missing children and that her parents’ position as foreigners in an environment they did not understand was not appreciated”, the BBC’s report goes on.
Anyone who remembers those days and weeks following Madeleine’s disappearance will recall the massive press pack camped in Praia da Luz, and the apparent extreme importance given by authorities, both Portuguese and British, to the child’s disappearance. Thus why this reference to “insufficient importance” comes now – 16 years after the little girl went missing without apparent trace – is unclear. There do not appear to be any new leads in this mystery in spite of the flurry of activity around the Arade dam earlier this year.
Reiterating that the Portuguese police “have now admitted that the investigation was not conducted correctly”, the BBC’s report ends with the information that “after years of investigation, Portuguese officers this year backed the German authorities, who believe that German Christian Brueckner (sic) murdered the child”.
This is something that Mr Brückner himself has consistently denied.
The BBC’s report concludes that “Hans Christian Wolters, the German prosecutor in the case, welcomed Portugal’s apology, saying: “It’s a good sign. It shows that there is progress in the McCann case in Portugal”.
Again this observation is not immediately borne out by the content of the PJ statement.
*SIC Notícias on Monday evening carried a news item to insist that Portugal’s PJ police did NOT travel to UK to apologise to the parents of Madeleine McCann. They went, as the statement issued earlier today explains, to update the couple on the situation as of ‘now’.
‘Close liaison’ with the German (BKA) and English (Metropolitan Police) authorities can also not be interpreted as PJ police ‘backing’ the German authorities theory that Christian Brückner murdered Madeleine McCann.
https://www.portugalresident.com/pj-police-confirm-steps-continuing-in-case-of-missing-madeleine-mccann/
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What do the three forces believe? That MWTIACABAS? Well I don't believe them, because I see no good reason to. Certainly, they haven't presented a shred of evidence MWTIACABAS, to support their belief.
I notice you didn’t answer the question preferring to reference your own gobbledegook. Here endeth my short interlude of conversing with the WUM. Back on ignore!
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I notice you didn’t answer the question preferring to reference your own gobbledegook. Here endeth my short interlude of conversing with the WUM. Back on ignore!
Bye bye dear. Take me off ignore when Brueckner is charged.
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Maddie: PJ confirms contacts with the child's parents to "procedural status"
Clarification from the Judiciary Police comes after the BBC reported that the PJ apologized to the parents of Madeleine McCann, then 3 years old, for "the way it dealt with the girl's disappearance in the Algarve, in May 2007".
The Judiciary Police denied that it had made any apology to Madeleine McCann's parents. The BBC reported that a PJ delegation had traveled to London at the beginning of the year to apologize to the couple for the way the investigation was carried out at the time of their daughter's disappearance.
The Judiciary Police clarified that, in the investigation into the disappearance of the English child Madeleine McCann, in the Algarve in 2007, steps continue to be taken, aiming to clarify the situation, and that contacts were made with the child's relatives.
"In this context and as opportunely made public, in close coordination with the German (BKA) and English (Metropolitan Police) authorities, formal acts of investigation and expertise have been carried out , in Portugal and abroad, as well as sharing information and testimonies revisited ", says the Judiciary Police (PJ) in a statement.
According to the PJ, as "it is also normal in this type of situation and corresponds to good practices", face-to-face contacts were made with the relatives of the missing child , transmitting only "the procedural status , within the scope of the ongoing investigation , pending at the Public Ministry of the District of Faro ."
This clarification from the PJ comes after the BBC, cited by the EFE agency, reported that the PJ apologized to the parents of Madeleine McCann , who was 3 years old at the time, for "the way it dealt with the girl's disappearance in the Algarve, in May 2007".
According to the same news, a delegation of PJ agents traveled from Lisbon to London at the beginning of this year to apologize to Gerry McCann , the child's father, after the parents were named as suspects in the girl's disappearance.
https://sicnoticias.pt/pais/2023-10-30-Maddie-PJ-confirma-contactos-com-pais-da-crianca-para-ponto-de-situacao-processual-cbd00438
So, just have to believe the BBC then, because the PJ themselves have made no mention of apologising to the McCanns. Only that ,""it is also normal in this type of situation and corresponds to good practices", face-to-face contacts were made with the relatives of the missing child , transmitting only "the procedural status
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I think the thread title needs amending, with the added caveat 'according to the BBC', just incase anyone is misled into believing the PJ really did apologise to the McCanns.
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I think the BBC is dependent on their source within the PJ.
Mark Williams-Thomas has tonight posted what he's been told by his source within PJ.
Mark Williams-Thomas
@mwilliamsthomas
My source in the PJ has stated that they did speak with the McCanns and their clear understanding of the meeting was that they did NOT apologise , they did however very clearly tell them that the case is no longer a Portuguese one but a German one . The relationship between Portugal and Germany authorities is very poor & has been for a long time.
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So, PJ either spoke to Gerry on his on or both the parents.
PJ either apologised or they didn't. Maybe they just left them details of no-win no-fee lawyers in Portugal.
PJ are either working closely with BKA or making life as difficult as possible.
Such is the power of the media.
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I think the BBC is dependent on their source within the PJ.
Mark Williams-Thomas has tonight posted what he's been told by his source within PJ.
Mark Williams-Thomas
@mwilliamsthomas
My source in the PJ has stated that they did speak with the McCanns and their clear understanding of the meeting was that they did NOT apologise , they did however very clearly tell them that the case is no longer a Portuguese one but a German one . The relationship between Portugal and Germany authorities is very poor & has been for a long time.
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So, PJ either spoke to Gerry on his on or both the parents.
PJ either apologised or they didn't. Maybe they just left them details of no-win no-fee lawyers in Portugal.
PJ are either working closely with BKA or making life as difficult as possible.
Such is the power of the media.
How I have been missing "PJ source - close to the investigation". Almost always as incredible as is MWT. Well, maybe not. No one is that incredible 🙄
For claimants of routine visits to victims of crime this mob certainly were exceptionally tardy! Sixteen years ???
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Maddie: PJ confirms contacts with the child's parents to "procedural status"
Clarification from the Judiciary Police comes after the BBC reported that the PJ apologized to the parents of Madeleine McCann, then 3 years old, for "the way it dealt with the girl's disappearance in the Algarve, in May 2007".
The Judiciary Police denied that it had made any apology to Madeleine McCann's parents. The BBC reported that a PJ delegation had traveled to London at the beginning of the year to apologize to the couple for the way the investigation was carried out at the time of their daughter's disappearance.
The Judiciary Police clarified that, in the investigation into the disappearance of the English child Madeleine McCann, in the Algarve in 2007, steps continue to be taken, aiming to clarify the situation, and that contacts were made with the child's relatives.
"In this context and as opportunely made public, in close coordination with the German (BKA) and English (Metropolitan Police) authorities, formal acts of investigation and expertise have been carried out , in Portugal and abroad, as well as sharing information and testimonies revisited ", says the Judiciary Police (PJ) in a statement.
According to the PJ, as "it is also normal in this type of situation and corresponds to good practices", face-to-face contacts were made with the relatives of the missing child , transmitting only "the procedural status , within the scope of the ongoing investigation , pending at the Public Ministry of the District of Faro ."
This clarification from the PJ comes after the BBC, cited by the EFE agency, reported that the PJ apologized to the parents of Madeleine McCann , who was 3 years old at the time, for "the way it dealt with the girl's disappearance in the Algarve, in May 2007".
According to the same news, a delegation of PJ agents traveled from Lisbon to London at the beginning of this year to apologize to Gerry McCann , the child's father, after the parents were named as suspects in the girl's disappearance.
https://sicnoticias.pt/pais/2023-10-30-Maddie-PJ-confirma-contactos-com-pais-da-crianca-para-ponto-de-situacao-processual-cbd00438
So, just have to believe the BBC then, because the PJ themselves have made no mention of apologising to the McCanns. Only that ,""it is also normal in this type of situation and corresponds to good practices", face-to-face contacts were made with the relatives of the missing child , transmitting only "the procedural status
In that case I take it all back. This was nothing more than another stop on the McCann carousel of bullshit, spun in to life by the bbc, probably in cahoots with the McCann's themselves.
Shocking behaviour. I'm appalled. They had me won over for a while there. I was up all night considering my previous position, and for what? More smoke and mirrors.
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How I have been missing "PJ source - close to the investigation". Almost always as incredible as is MWT. Well, maybe not. No one is that incredible 🙄
For claimants of routine visits to victims of crime this mob certainly were exceptionally tardy! Sixteen years ???
Trust Mark Williams Thomas to be in there somewhere. He never gets anything right.
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I smell the sardine munching breath of the erstwhile fat, still incompetent and still ex-cop co-ordinator on MWT’s shit stirring twxxt.
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I smell the sardine munching breath of the erstwhile fat, still incompetent and still ex-cop co-ordinator on MWT’s shit stirring twxxt.
I suppose your casual racism is a 'generational thing'? Like Jimmy Saville?
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I got a bite. Yay.
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I got a bite. Yay.
I'm not interested in your disdain for Dr Amaral, I'm disappointed with the racism that goes unchecked here.
We have members of all colours and creeds and I'd hope we could at least respect that and keep your prejudices to yourself.
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I suppose your casual racism is a 'generational thing'? Like Jimmy Saville?
He is Fat. He is Incompetent. And he is an Ex Co ordinator.
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Williams-Thomas spouting his tired old awoke, walked and wandered bollocks again...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWwdJt1UOR8&ab_channel=GBNews (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWwdJt1UOR8&ab_channel=GBNews)
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He is Fat. He is Incompetent. And he is an Ex Co ordinator.
he also has shocking breath, so I heard.
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I'm not interested in your disdain for Dr Amaral, I'm disappointed with the racism that goes unchecked here.
We have members of all colours and creeds and I'd hope we could at least respect that and keep your prejudices to yourself.
@)(++(* I love it when you drop the troll act and get on your high horse, it's hilaire!
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He is Fat. He is Incompetent. And he is an Ex Co ordinator.
That's fine - that's freedom of speech. I doubt he cares, but the opinion can be spouted. It's the racism that it would seem your generation often deploy, then act all confused because 'well it weren't racist in my day', or, probably more telling, 'it's political correctness gone mad, that's what it is'.
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@)(++(* I love it when you drop the troll act and get on your high horse, it's hilaire!
The irony here being that you inadvertently name dropped a black footballer of some repute. I imagine that's quite galling to discover.
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Williams-Thomas spouting his tired old awoke, walked and wandered bollocks again...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWwdJt1UOR8&ab_channel=GBNews (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWwdJt1UOR8&ab_channel=GBNews)
He's still milking the ex cop card for all its worth.
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PJ police confirm “steps continuing” in case of missing Madeleine McCann
Detectives have reportedly “apologised” for handling of case
In a statement issued today, Portugal’s PJ judicial police have clarified that “steps are continuing” as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, “to fully clarify the situation”.
The statement comes after the BBC in UK reports that “Portuguese police have apologised to the parents of Madeleine McCann for the way they handled the three-year-old’s disappearance”.
None of this is mentioned in the PJ statement, which simply explains “that, as part of the investigation into the disappearance of an English child in the Algarve in 2007, steps are continuing to be taken to fully clarify the situation”.
The short text continues: “In this context, and as has been made public in due course, in close liaison with the German (BKA) and English (Metropolitan Police) authorities, formal investigation and forensic tests have been carried out in Portugal and abroad, as well as sharing information and revisiting testimonies.
“As is also normal in this type of situation and in line with good practice, face-to-face contacts were made with the relatives of the missing child, providing – only – the procedural situation within the scope of the ongoing inquiry pending before the Faro District Public Prosecutor’s Office”.
According to the BBC, “a delegation of senior officers travelled from Lisbon to London earlier this year. They met Gerry McCann, Madeleine’s father, and apologised for the way detectives investigated the case and treated the family.
“The McCann family has not commented on the apology and their daughter’s disappearance remains unsolved.
“Portuguese police now say their initial investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance was not handled properly, there was insufficient importance given at the time to missing children and that her parents’ position as foreigners in an environment they did not understand was not appreciated”, the BBC’s report goes on.
Anyone who remembers those days and weeks following Madeleine’s disappearance will recall the massive press pack camped in Praia da Luz, and the apparent extreme importance given by authorities, both Portuguese and British, to the child’s disappearance. Thus why this reference to “insufficient importance” comes now – 16 years after the little girl went missing without apparent trace – is unclear. There do not appear to be any new leads in this mystery in spite of the flurry of activity around the Arade dam earlier this year.
Reiterating that the Portuguese police “have now admitted that the investigation was not conducted correctly”, the BBC’s report ends with the information that “after years of investigation, Portuguese officers this year backed the German authorities, who believe that German Christian Brueckner (sic) murdered the child”.
This is something that Mr Brückner himself has consistently denied.
The BBC’s report concludes that “Hans Christian Wolters, the German prosecutor in the case, welcomed Portugal’s apology, saying: “It’s a good sign. It shows that there is progress in the McCann case in Portugal”.
Again this observation is not immediately borne out by the content of the PJ statement.
*SIC Notícias on Monday evening carried a news item to insist that Portugal’s PJ police did NOT travel to UK to apologise to the parents of Madeleine McCann. They went, as the statement issued earlier today explains, to update the couple on the situation as of ‘now’.
‘Close liaison’ with the German (BKA) and English (Metropolitan Police) authorities can also not be interpreted as PJ police ‘backing’ the German authorities theory that Christian Brückner murdered Madeleine McCann.
https://www.portugalresident.com/pj-police-confirm-steps-continuing-in-case-of-missing-madeleine-mccann/
The word cleared appears noticeable by its absence despite the inferences or am I missing something?
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He's still milking the ex cop card for all its worth.
He's on the MM Ching Ching Train; the ride that never stops paying.
There's dozens of them with their snouts in the trough.
There is one notable exception, however. We never see Martin Grime poking about in any of this. Not because he sought to 'build a business' on the back of it, which is a scurrilous accusation, but because no doubt he refuses to profit from the ongoing carousel of intrigue that plenty of 'pundits' are happy to exploit.
....and guess what, the Ching Ching Train has been amply refuelled by inaccurate clickbait published by our illustrious, tax payer funded paragon of impartiality, the BBC.
.....choo choooooo
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The irony here being that you inadvertently name dropped a black footballer of some repute. I imagine that's quite galling to discover.
I have literally no idea what you are on about. Keep on trotting on your high horse, your faux outrage is most amusing to watch.
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I wonder how long it will be before the national rags print a correction of yesterday's fake news? I bet they never do. The average pleb will be left believing the McCanns have been both apologised to & formally cleared.
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To gunit and all the other sceptics
Told you so
McCanns officially cleared..wonder what gonc will have to
say
Aged like milk.
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Ching Ching??! RACIST!!!
?
Oh, I see. You automatically assumed it was the wholly unacceptable, but widely used by some epithet 'chink'. That's pretty ingrained bigotry manifest right there and should give you pause for reflection.
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I wonder how long it will be before the national rags print a correction of yesterday's fake news? I bet they never do. The average pleb will be left believing the McCanns have been both apologised to & formally cleared.
...which was probably the purpose. Let's use a standard inter-judicial process and spin it to create free 'vindication' for the McCanns. It harks back to the halcyon Bell Pottinger days paid to spoon feed the ignorant populous with pro-McCann propaganda.
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The McCanns were formally cleared of all suspicion back in 2008, together with Robert Murat. They are now about as far from being suspects as it's possible to get (unless you're one of those dyed-in-the-wool mcCann sceptics who never got over the dog alerts and who simply cannot let go of the past). IMO anyone STILL trotting out the tired old mantra that the McCanns have not been cleared really has tiny pebbles where their brains should be, and recent events only serve to highlight their rock-headedness. IMO.
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?
Oh, I see. You automatically assumed it was the wholly unacceptable, but widely used by some epithet 'chink'. That's pretty ingrained bigotry manifest right there and should give you pause for reflection.
No, you took my Chinese ancestors surname in vain twice to make some cheap shot - you utter .......
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No, you took my Chinese ancestors surname in vain twice to make some cheap shot - you utter ..
....
If you're going to try to moonwalk your way out of being a raving bigot, at least make it plausible.
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Okay. I have had enough of this. I shall be deleting comments shortly if this continues.
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They didn't have to apologise...it's quite a surprise they actually did...but they've confirmed what some of us have been saying fir years.....PJ hadn't got a clue.....amaral was.a clown..grime and his dogs were a joke..And the McCanns have been cleared....it will be tough for any anti to expect
Don't ever assume your right....... till you know you are.
there is never an end....... till you have reached it.
All your quoting again it seems is media spin.
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If you're going to try to moonwalk your way out of being a raving bigot, at least make it plausible.
OK, I'm a total and massive sausage munching Nazi. Rumbled. Shall we moonwalk on to other topics now, otherwise Eleanor might delete this charming little chat we're having?
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OK, I'm a total and massive sausage munching Nazi. Rumbled. Shall we moonwalk on to other topics now, otherwise Eleanor might delete this charming little chat we're having?
It's underway already. And not just me, although I will almost certainly get the blame. But thank you for complying.
Fortunately, I no longer care of what anyone thinks of me.
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They didn't have to apologise...it's quite a surprise they actually did...but they've confirmed what some of us have been saying fir years.....PJ hadn't got a clue.....amaral was.a clown..grime and his dogs were a joke..And the McCanns have been cleared....it will be tough for any anti to expect
Cleared by who?
Madeline has not been found. The means of her disappearance has not been established.
All scenarios are still valid regardless until evidence is found that clearly shows otherwise.
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Interference in the official investigation by the British diplomatic authorities must never be forgotten. Likewise, the conduct of the British police in the weeks following Madeleine's disappearance. Amaral was up against it from the beginning, his investigation was thwarted by their refusal to provide basic information sought by the Portuguese authorities. One has to wonder what was behind this?
Amaral was forced to stand down as a direct result of British police interference.
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Cleared by who?
Madeline has not been found. The means of her disappearance has not been established.
All scenarios are still valid regardless until evidence is found that clearly shows otherwise.
They may be valid to you, but not to the three investigative forces investigating Madeleine’s disappearance. The McCanns were officially cleared of suspicion in 2008 along with Murat, and have not been official suspects since, nor is it ever likely that they will once again become suspects. To think otherwise is to be severely deluded, imo.
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Interference in the official investigation by the British diplomatic authorities must never be forgotten. Likewise, the conduct of the British police in the weeks following Madeleine's disappearance. Amaral was up against it from the beginning, his investigation was thwarted by their refusal to provide basic information sought by the Portuguese authorities. One has to wonder what was behind this?
Amaral was forced to stand down as a direct result of British police interference.
Oh please. Madeleine was abducted by a stranger, that’s what three investigative forces have concluded and are concentrating on. You’re dredging up completely irrelevant ancient history, one has to wonder why bother doing this again and again and again and again and again…zzzzzzz
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They may be valid to you, but not to the three investigative forces investigating Madeleine’s disappearance. The McCanns were officially cleared of suspicion in 2008 along with Murat, and have not been official suspects since, nor is it ever likely that they will once again become suspects. To think otherwise is to be severely deluded, imo.
Not according to the Portuguese Supreme Court tho.
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Oh please. Madeleine was abducted by a stranger, that’s what three investigative forces have concluded and are concentrating on. You’re dredging up completely irrelevant ancient history, one has to wonder why bother doing this again and again and again and again and again…zzzzzzz
They can concentrate on anything they want but in the absence of real evidence it is still only their theory. The Germans will never secure a conviction in this case because ultimately their best effort was and remains utter BS.
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They can concentrate on anything they want but in the absence of real evidence it is still only their theory. The Germans will never secure a conviction in this case because ultimately their best effort was and remains utter BS.
Kindly explain how you are best placed to determine that thr German investigation is utter BS? Clearly to arrive at this conclusion you must have sight of all the evidence that has been gathered on this case over the years so do tell us precisely how you apparently know for a fact that CB is not involved in Madeleine’s disappearance. I await your detailed response with interest but also with very great patience as I am quite certain I won’t get anything like a reasonable reply anytime soon.
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Not according to the Portuguese Supreme Court tho.
So they think the McCanns are still suspects do they? That figures.., *%87
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Interference in the official investigation by the British diplomatic authorities must never be forgotten. Likewise, the conduct of the British police in the weeks following Madeleine's disappearance. Amaral was up against it from the beginning, his investigation was thwarted by their refusal to provide basic information sought by the Portuguese authorities. One has to wonder what was behind this?
Amaral was forced to stand down as a direct result of British police interference.
What a fantastic post....That says it exactly how it was.
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They may be valid to you, but not to the three investigative forces investigating Madeleine’s disappearance. The McCanns were officially cleared of suspicion in 2008 along with Murat, and have not been official suspects since, nor is it ever likely that they will once again become suspects. To think otherwise is to be severely deluded, imo.
three investigative forces investigating Madeleine’s disappearance.
How do you know what is going on you are only repeating what you think is happening by what you read.
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Kindly explain how you are best placed to determine that thr German investigation is utter BS? Clearly to arrive at this conclusion you must have sight of all the evidence that has been gathered on this case over the years so do tell us precisely how you apparently know for a fact that CB is not involved in Madeleine’s disappearance. I await your detailed response with interest but also with very great patience as I am quite certain I won’t get anything like a reasonable reply anytime soon.
you must have sight of all the evidence that has been gathered on this case over the years so do tell us precisely how you apparently know for a fact that CB is not involved in Madeleine’s disappearance.
Well, I think it should be more "you" do tell us the evidence they have gathered over the years....
What evidence is that ...if you know.... do tell.
Is obvious they haven't any
Go find the evidence and charge him, or shut up!' | Former Cop gives warning to German prosecutor
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They may be valid to you, but not to the three investigative forces investigating Madeleine’s disappearance. The McCanns were officially cleared of suspicion in 2008 along with Murat, and have not been official suspects since, nor is it ever likely that they will once again become suspects. To think otherwise is to be severely deluded, imo.
McCanns were officially cleared of suspicion in 2008
The investigation was shelved because of lack of evidence......note though..... not no evidence.
Don't forget either the supreme court did not clear them.
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McCanns were officially cleared of suspicion in 2008
The investigation was shelved because of lack of evidence......note though..... not no evidence.
Don't forget either the supreme court did not clear them.
And how silly the supreme court must be feeling right now.
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And how silly the supreme court must be feeling right now.
I would think they are totally indifferent to what others say. As a court, they are supreme.
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And how silly the supreme court must be feeling right now.
Why
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And how silly the supreme court must be feeling right now.
Personally, I doubt that they care. The Court of The First Instance was the only one that got it right and were then over ruled by The Old Guard. Let's hope that The Old Guard have now been retired and then Portugal might have half a chance.
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I would think they are totally indifferent to what others say. As a court, they are supreme.
Thanks for sticking in here during the hiatus. I appreciate that.
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And how silly the supreme court must be feeling right now.
They'll have egg on their faces when Brueckner is charged.
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three investigative forces investigating Madeleine’s disappearance.
How do you know what is going on you are only repeating what you think is happening by what you read.
I see, So you don't think there are three investigative forces investigating Madeleine's disappearance as a stranger abduction then? What do you think's going on then? Do tell.
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you must have sight of all the evidence that has been gathered on this case over the years so do tell us precisely how you apparently know for a fact that CB is not involved in Madeleine’s disappearance.
Well, I think it should be more "you" do tell us the evidence they have gathered over the years....
What evidence is that ...if you know.... do tell.
Is obvious they haven't any
Go find the evidence and charge him, or shut up!' | Former Cop gives warning to German prosecutor
My question was aimed at Admin who claimed to know in no uncertain terms that the investigation into CB is BS. To know that for a fact Admin must have full knowledge of all the evidence so one I've heard it I may well be convinced that Admin (who is obviously far better informed than I am what with all their insider info) is bang on the money. But I shall reserve judgement until Admin has spoken, ok?
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McCanns were officially cleared of suspicion in 2008
The investigation was shelved because of lack of evidence......note though..... not no evidence.
Don't forget either the supreme court did not clear them.
The Supreme Court was not set up to pass judgement on their guilt or otherwise. No, the archiving report of 2008 however cleared them of suspicion. The opposite of "cleared of suspicion" is "remain suspects". Is this how the McCanns have been treated by law enforcement in Portugal, Britain and Germany? If so kindly provide your evidence for this claim.
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I see, So you don't think there are three investigative forces investigating Madeleine's disappearance as a stranger abduction then? What do you think's going on then? Do tell.
What do you think's going on then
Not a lot.
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My question was aimed at Admin who claimed to know in no uncertain terms that the investigation into CB is BS. To know that for a fact Admin must have full knowledge of all the evidence so one I've heard it I may well be convinced that Admin (who is obviously far better informed than I am what with all their insider info) is bang on the money. But I shall reserve judgement until Admin has spoken, ok?
Or you could just wait until Brueckner is charged. That'll prove Admin wrong. I really don't think it'll be much longer now..
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My question was aimed at Admin who claimed to know in no uncertain terms that the investigation into CB is BS. To know that for a fact Admin must have full knowledge of all the evidence so one I've heard it I may well be convinced that Admin (who is obviously far better informed than I am what with all their insider info) is bang on the money. But I shall reserve judgement until Admin has spoken, ok?
My question was aimed at Admin
Its a forum ...any one can respond
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The Supreme Court was not set up to pass judgement on their guilt or otherwise. No, the archiving report of 2008 however cleared them of suspicion. The opposite of "cleared of suspicion" is "remain suspects". Is this how the McCanns have been treated by law enforcement in Portugal, Britain and Germany? If so kindly provide your evidence for this claim.
Do you even know if Portuguese police did apologise to the mccs.... or just going by the spin on it.
There is no evidence is there....but.
Both were questioned by detectives, who believed they had staged an abduction and concealed Madeleine’s body. The McCanns have always denied any wrongdoing.
Brueckner has always denied any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance. The Braunschweig prosecutor’s office has yet to gather enough evidence to file charges against Brueckner over Madeleine’s disappearance.
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My question was aimed at Admin
Its a forum ...any one can respond
Respond away, just don't expect me to give you what you want because you demand it. I'm not that interested in debating with you as you add nothing of interest or substance to the debate imo but I am interested in finding out how Admin knows for a fact that the German investigation is BS. This suggests insider info that none of us is privy to.
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Interference in the official investigation by the British diplomatic authorities must never be forgotten. Likewise, the conduct of the British police in the weeks following Madeleine's disappearance. Amaral was up against it from the beginning, his investigation was thwarted by their refusal to provide basic information sought by the Portuguese authorities. One has to wonder what was behind this?
Amaral was forced to stand down as a direct result of British police interference.
Hang on didn't Amaral say the British Police in Portugal agreed with him? He can't have it both ways. Seems he said one thing and then contradicted himself depending on the difficulty of the questions fired at him.
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Do you even know if Portuguese police did apologise to the mccs.... or just going by the spin on it.
There is no evidence is there....but.
Both were questioned by detectives, who believed they had staged an abduction and concealed Madeleine’s body. The McCanns have always denied any wrongdoing.
Brueckner has always denied any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance. The Braunschweig prosecutor’s office has yet to gather enough evidence to file charges against Brueckner over Madeleine’s disappearance.
Get out of your time warp. Three Police forces have said the McCann's are innocent. repeating things from the past will not change that.
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Get out of your time warp. Three Police forces have said the McCann's are innocent. repeating things from the past will not change that.
Citations required. I don't recall any police forces ever stating that the McCanns are innocent?
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Respond away, just don't expect me to give you what you want because you demand it. I'm not that interested in debating with you as you add nothing of interest or substance to the debate imo but I am interested in finding out how Admin knows for a fact that the German investigation is BS. This suggests insider info that none of us is privy to.
Well its a good job we all don't think like you.
But, please realise non of us have any evidence on anything its just a matter of what we believe.
I don't demand anything .....its just my opinion ...at the end of the day same as everyone on here only opinions.
PS your the demanding one.......... .wanting a response from only from admin..
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Get out of your time warp. Three Police forces have said the McCann's are innocent. repeating things from the past will not change that.
repeating things from the past will not change that.
Wont it............are we any further on from the day Maddie disappeared apart from a list of so called suspects.
That dissolves into nothing......till the next one comes a long.
I think you should......wait till someone is charged before you try an tell me what to do.
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Citations required. I don't recall any police forces ever stating that the McCanns are innocent?
Not suspects, same thing.
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repeating things from the past will not change that.
Wont it............are we any further on from the day Maddie disappeared apart from a list of so called suspects.
That dissolves into nothing......till the next one comes a long.
I think you should......wait till someone is charged before you try an tell me what to do.
I think we are a lot further on, the German police have a suspect, we don't know all the evidence they have but we'll find out next year.
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I think we are a lot further on, the German police have a suspect, we don't know all the evidence they have but we'll find out next year.
@)(++(*
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Well its a good job we all don't think like you.
But, please realise non of us have any evidence on anything its just a matter of what we believe.
I don't demand anything .....its just my opinion ...at the end of the day same as everyone on here only opinions.
PS your the demanding one.......... .wanting a response from only from admin..
yes, because the rules of the forum are that if you make a statement of fact “the German case against CB is BS” then you must supply a cite or evidence that supports your factual statement.
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Not suspects, same thing.
I think Mark Rowley made it clear that he believed the parents had absolutely nothing to do with Madeleine’s disappearance which amounts to stating they are innocent, even if he didn’t use that exact word.
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Trolls may like to pretend to themselves that the Met don’t believe the McCanns are innocent but I’m afraid the Head Honcho’s interview puts a lie to this ridiculous notion. He and they are crystal clear. The McCanns are innocent and Madeleine was abducted.
“Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation. The McCanns are parents of a missing girl, we are trying to get to the bottom of. In terms of Andy using the word abduction, she was not old enough to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the heart of this has been an abduction”.
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GERMAN police have said their investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance has shown her parents are completely innocent.
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yes, because the rules of the forum are that if you make a statement of fact “the German case against CB is BS” then you must supply a cite or evidence that supports your factual statement.
You thought the title of this thread was true.......but it isn't is it....yet you posted it as a fact.
quote
This news will go down like a lead balloon in some quarters. I guess the UK government forced the pJ to apologise theough gritted teeth or something.
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GERMAN police have said their investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance has shown her parents are completely innocent.
If you want to believe every thing they say and hang on every word......that's up to you.
I don't....I like to think for myself.
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You thought the title of this thread was true.......but it isn't is it....yet you posted it as a fact.
quote
This news will go down like a lead balloon in some quarters. I guess the UK government forced the pJ to apologise theough gritted teeth or something.
I did not post it as fact. And I was absolutely right. The news did go down like a lead balloon, nor has it been disproved, only via an anonymous PJ source (Gonc probs) via the highly reliable (not) MWT.
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GERMAN police have said their investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance has shown her parents are completely innocent.
Of course there will be those who think that when the Germans say they are 100% certain Christian Bruckner murdered Madeleine that they also believe the parents are still involved. *%87
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I did not post it as fact. And I was absolutely right. The news did go down like a lead balloon, nor has it been disproved, only via an anonymous PJ source (Gonc probs) via the highly reliable (not) MWT.
What was this post all about then ...who exactly should aplogise then......and why
VS quote
Should we be holding our breaths for a public apology from all the sceptics and trolls that have spent 16 years “only asking questions” about the McCanns? Only if we want to die of oxygen starvation I reckon.
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Of course there will be those who think that when the Germans say they are 100% certain Christian Bruckner murdered Madeleine that they also believe the parents are still involved. *%87
You mean the Germans who have been saying.. that.. for over three and a half year....yet have done nothing,
Absolute nothing to charge who they think 100% killed Maddie....them Germans
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GERMAN police have said their investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance has shown her parents are completely innocent.
If the McCanns were innocent then the PJ would have apologised to them by now....
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Trolls may like to pretend to themselves that the Met don’t believe the McCanns are innocent but I’m afraid the Head Honcho’s interview puts a lie to this ridiculous notion. He and they are crystal clear. The McCanns are innocent and Madeleine was abducted.
“Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation. The McCanns are parents of a missing girl, we are trying to get to the bottom of. In terms of Andy using the word abduction, she was not old enough to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the heart of this has been an abduction”.
They talk a lot, these Maddie detectives. They come up a bit short when it comes to presenting any evidence though. But it's probably not important.
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Trolls may like to pretend to themselves that the Met don’t believe the McCanns are innocent but I’m afraid the Head Honcho’s interview puts a lie to this ridiculous notion. He and they are crystal clear. The McCanns are innocent and Madeleine was abducted.
“Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation. The McCanns are parents of a missing girl, we are trying to get to the bottom of. In terms of Andy using the word abduction, she was not old enough to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the heart of this has been an abduction”.
this is a young girl who is missing and at the heart of this has been an abduction”.
Yes according to the mccs. abducted.
according to the met
Investigative review
The Met’s involvement, known as Operation Grange, is led by the Specialist Crime Command unit and involved, in the first instance, an ‘investigative review’. This was a review of all of the investigations that had been previously conducted into the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
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What was this post all about then ...who exactly should aplogise then......and why
VS quote
Should we be holding our breaths for a public apology from all the sceptics and trolls that have spent 16 years “only asking questions” about the McCanns? Only if we want to die of oxygen starvation I reckon.
It was a question, perfectly valid one, in fact it's one I have asked numerous times over the years, purely rhetorical of course as it will be a cold day in hell before any of you ever admit you were wrong about the McCanns, even when it's proven beyond doubt that they did not harm or hide their daughter.
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You mean the Germans who have been saying.. that.. for over three and a half year....yet have done nothing,
Absolute nothing to charge who they think 100% killed Maddie....them Germans
You really are boring and repetitive, a bit like spam in that respect. Yes we know the Germans have yet to charge CB, yes we know it's a source of great mirth and mockery for you and your merry band, but it still doesn't alter the fact that the Germans are certain they have the right person and are certain the McCanns are not involved. Your mockery cannot alter that fact. Sozaloz.
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Any thoughts on why The McCanns haven't been charged or even arrested after sixteen years?
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this is a young girl who is missing and at the heart of this has been an abduction”.
Yes according to the mccs. abducted.
according to the met
Investigative review
The Met’s involvement, known as Operation Grange, is led by the Specialist Crime Command unit and involved, in the first instance, an ‘investigative review’. This was a review of all of the investigations that had been previously conducted into the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
Mark Rowley "However she left that apartment, she has been abducted". It couldn't be any clearer than that. You're not still clutching at straws that maybe, just maybe, the Met secretly believes the McCanns dunnit are you? Please tell me you are not that barmy.
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Any thoughts on why The McCanns haven't been charged or even arrested after sixteen years?
Good question. If 3 years without charge means CB deffo didn't dunnit, then what does that mean re: the McCanns? They deffo didn't dunnit to the power of 5+!!
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It was a question, perfectly valid one, in fact it's one I have asked numerous times over the years, purely rhetorical of course as it will be a cold day in hell before any of you ever admit you were wrong about the McCanns, even when it's proven beyond doubt that they did not harm or hide their daughter.
We are all very much aware of that. There will always be an excuse no matter how ridiculous.
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You really are boring and repetitive, a bit like spam in that respect. Yes we know the Germans have yet to charge CB, yes we know it's a source of great mirth and mockery for you and your merry band, but it still doesn't alter the fact that the Germans are certain they have the right person and are certain the McCanns are not involved. Your mockery cannot alter that fact. Sozaloz.
Best form of defence as they say is.........attack
At the end of this ...........I cant prove you are wrong.......buttt
Neither can you prove I am wrong.........that's just the way it is unfortunately
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Good question. If 3 years without charge means CB deffo didn't dunnit, then what does that mean re: the McCanns? They deffo didn't dunnit to the power of 5+!!
The Sceptic arguments always fall down by their own hands. They simply don't have the power of logical thinking. And so it all comes down to some ghastly failing in their own lives that they are unable to deal with.
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Best form of defence as they say is.........attack
At the end of this ...........I cant prove you are wrong.......buttt
Neither can you prove I am wrong.........that's just the way it is unfortunately
I can prove you're wrong when you claim the McCanns have not been cleared of suspicion, in fact I just have repeatedly today. Oh well, you know what they say - you can lead a horse to water but it'll still be certain the water is poisoned and that it was probably the McCanns wot poisoned it.
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Any thoughts on why The McCanns haven't been charged or even arrested after sixteen years?
Insufficient evidence.
Has Martin Smith identified Brueckner yet?
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You really are boring and repetitive, a bit like spam in that respect. Yes we know the Germans have yet to charge CB, yes we know it's a source of great mirth and mockery for you and your merry band, but it still doesn't alter the fact that the Germans are certain they have the right person and are certain the McCanns are not involved. Your mockery cannot alter that fact. Sozaloz.
Ok dear. Remember to get back to us when Wolters reveals the concrete evidence.
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Good question. If 3 years without charge means CB deffo didn't dunnit, then what does that mean re: the McCanns? They deffo didn't dunnit to the power of 5+!!
On CB .....HCW said they had concrete evidence he killed Maddie..yet never backed that up....so not evidence just words. suppose we will have to see...but not take it as gospel
Where as with the mccs not enough evidence to charge ...so they shelved it.[not enough, not no evidence]
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I can prove you're wrong when you claim the McCanns have not been cleared of suspicion, in fact I just have repeatedly today. Oh well, you know what they say - you can lead a horse to water but it'll still be certain the water is poisoned and that it was probably the McCanns wot poisoned it.
Oh....do you think ..haven't heard that quote before.
Why would the mccs want to kill a horse.
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On CB .....HCW said they had concrete evidence he killed Maddie..yet never backed that up....so not evidence just words. suppose we will have to see...but not take it as gospel
Where as with the mccs not enough evidence to charge ...so they shelved it.[not enough, not no evidence]
McCann supporters don't require evidence. They just believe in policeman words. That's what sets them apart from us sceptics, with our strange desire for actual evidence of things. Crazy!
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Oh....do you think ..haven't heard that quote before.
Why would the mccs want to kill a horse.
oh dear, time for Kizzy's lie down.
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On CB .....HCW said they had concrete evidence he killed Maddie..yet never backed that up....so not evidence just words. suppose we will have to see...but not take it as gospel
Where as with the mccs not enough evidence to charge ...so they shelved it.[not enough, not no evidence]
Completely illogical, but thanks for sharing @)(++(*
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McCann supporters don't require evidence. They just believe in policeman words. That's what sets them apart from us sceptics, with our strange desire for actual evidence of things. Crazy!
It seems the majority of people now are a bit miffed that the Germans know who killed maddie.
Yet not producing a thing to prove it.
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It seems the majority of people now are a bit miffed that the Germans know who killed maddie.
Yet not producing a thing to prove it.
I think the majority of people now accept that Madeleine was abducted and that in all likelihood she was taken by a predatory paedophile, if not CB then someone very similar who lived locally, was a child abuser who had experience of entering properties illegally and knew his way around the area. I wonder how many other local(ish) residents fit that profile back in 2007?
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If you want to believe every thing they say and hang on every word......that's up to you.
I don't....I like to think for myself.
I prefer to believe the Police who are actually investigating the case.
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I think the majority of people now accept that Madeleine was abducted and that in all likelihood she was taken by a predatory paedophile, if not CB then someone very similar who lived locally, was a child abuser who had experience of entering properties illegally and knew his way around the area. I wonder how many other local(ish) residents fit that profile back in 2007?
The man who was watching 5a before Madeleine disappeared was wearing a black leather jacket, CB was known to where a black leather jacket coincidence?
I think he was as brazen as they come. He had got away with so many burglaries he was laughing at the Police.
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I really can't help but wonder why Amaral didn't look into the burglaries and the sexual assaults in the apartments. Why didn't he link the two.
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I really can't help but wonder why Amaral didn't look into the burglaries and the sexual assaults in the apartments. Why didn't he link the two.
Because there's no connection?
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I think there are similarities with the Cipriano case, but not for the same reason as supporters.
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I really can't help but wonder why Amaral didn't look into the burglaries and the sexual assaults in the apartments. Why didn't he link the two.
Because he was convinced even before doing any investigations whatsoever that the McCanns were responsible, so other leads were pursued half-heartedly if at all.
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Because he was convinced even before doing any investigations whatsoever that the McCanns were responsible, so other leads were pursued half-heartedly if at all.
It's OK. The MET have spent a decade investigating all the leads that Amaral didn't & it hasn't got them anywhere. Which kind of proves Amaral was right not to bother in the first instance really.
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Because he was convinced even before doing any investigations whatsoever that the McCanns were responsible, so other leads were pursued half-heartedly if at all.
Amaral needed the McCanns to be guilty to validate his stance on The Cipriano Case. And the pending Perjury Charge. Which he lost.
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I prefer to believe the Police who are actually investigating the case.
OH ........I know that.
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Amaral needed the McCanns to be guilty to validate his stance on The Cipriano Case. And the pending Perjury Charge. Which he lost.
He did alright in the libel trial though.
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Anyway. Let's get back to the thread topic. The Portuguese Police apologise to the McCanns.
They didn't.
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Why the hell would they anyway. apologise to the mccs
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I prefer to believe the Police who are actually investigating the case.
Seems though one lot looking for a live Maddie ...the otheres say she is dead.
Which of the police do you believe who are actually investigating the case.
quote
The journalist asked Wolters whether the German authorities are aware of the location of the crime, to which he simply replied "maybe".
Reacting to the claims, Harding said: "I've led a number of homicide investigations in London and until you get actual proof that somebody is dead, of course you you shouldn't be thinking that way.
"You know, that's why they are still active on the case, because there doesn't seem to be anything concrete to suggest that she is dead.
"I know the the German police I think in 2020 suggested that their belief was that she was dead and this is the time that Bruckner became their key suspect.
Harding continued: "So I think in my opinion and I think the opinion of the Met Police, certainly the people that I know that work on that case before I retired would suggest that until there is something that tells them otherwise, then of course this is an active inquiry for somebody that's still missing."
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Seems though one lot looking for a live Maddie ...the otheres say she is dead.
Which of the police do you believe who are actually investigating the case.
quote
The journalist asked Wolters whether the German authorities are aware of the location of the crime, to which he simply replied "maybe".
Reacting to the claims, Harding said: "I've led a number of homicide investigations in London and until you get actual proof that somebody is dead, of course you you shouldn't be thinking that way.
"You know, that's why they are still active on the case, because there doesn't seem to be anything concrete to suggest that she is dead.
"I know the the German police I think in 2020 suggested that their belief was that she was dead and this is the time that Bruckner became their key suspect.
Harding continued: "So I think in my opinion and I think the opinion of the Met Police, certainly the people that I know that work on that case before I retired would suggest that until there is something that tells them otherwise, then of course this is an active inquiry for somebody that's still missing."
I just checked & the Find Madeleine website still states 'There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Madeleine has been harmed".
Doubts remain for the McCanns re the child abducting predatory paedophile.
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Seems though one lot looking for a live Maddie ...the otheres say she is dead.
Which of the police do you believe who are actually investigating the case.
quote
The journalist asked Wolters whether the German authorities are aware of the location of the crime, to which he simply replied "maybe".
Reacting to the claims, Harding said: "I've led a number of homicide investigations in London and until you get actual proof that somebody is dead, of course you you shouldn't be thinking that way.
"You know, that's why they are still active on the case, because there doesn't seem to be anything concrete to suggest that she is dead.
"I know the the German police I think in 2020 suggested that their belief was that she was dead and this is the time that Bruckner became their key suspect.
Harding continued: "So I think in my opinion and I think the opinion of the Met Police, certainly the people that I know that work on that case before I retired would suggest that until there is something that tells them otherwise, then of course this is an active inquiry for somebody that's still missing."
The German Police say they have evidence Madeleine is dead, we don't know what the evidence is do we.
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Why the hell would they anyway. apologise to the mccs
for putting them through extra hell and for being crap at their jobs - for a start.
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Seems though one lot looking for a live Maddie ...the otheres say she is dead.
Which of the police do you believe who are actually investigating the case.
quote
The journalist asked Wolters whether the German authorities are aware of the location of the crime, to which he simply replied "maybe".
Reacting to the claims, Harding said: "I've led a number of homicide investigations in London and until you get actual proof that somebody is dead, of course you you shouldn't be thinking that way.
"You know, that's why they are still active on the case, because there doesn't seem to be anything concrete to suggest that she is dead.
"I know the the German police I think in 2020 suggested that their belief was that she was dead and this is the time that Bruckner became their key suspect.
Harding continued: "So I think in my opinion and I think the opinion of the Met Police, certainly the people that I know that work on that case before I retired would suggest that until there is something that tells them otherwise, then of course this is an active inquiry for somebody that's still missing."
Who is Harding and is he part of the current investigation speking recently?
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The German Police say they have evidence Madeleine is dead, we don't know what the evidence is do we.
No....we don't know what the evidence is..............or if they have any either.
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They talk a lot, these Maddie detectives. They come up a bit short when it comes to presenting any evidence though. But it's probably not important.
No they dont talk a lot; they are keeping it all very quiet.
Well done SY/ OG.
They know much much more than you would ever believe.
Sadie taps the side of her nose with confidence.
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No....we don't know what the evidence is..............or if they have any either.
Wolters said - “If you knew the evidence we had you would come to the same conclusion as I do but I can’t give you details because we don’t want the accused to know what we have on him – these are tactical considerations,” he told the BBC.
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Wolters said - “If you knew the evidence we had you would come to the same conclusion as I do but I can’t give you details because we don’t want the accused to know what we have on him – these are tactical considerations,” he told the BBC.
Do you realise how silly that post is ....what he says proves nothing.
Its just like me saying G.A. says the mccs disposed the body of maddie.
Mind you I know who I believe........an after all he was privy to the info at the time.
If I was you I would just give up on trying to persuade me otherwise. L
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Do you realise how silly that post is ....what he says proves nothing.
Its just like me saying G.A. says the mccs disposed the body of maddie.
Mind you I know who I believe........an after all he was privy to the info at the time.
If I was you I would just give up on trying to persuade me otherwise. L
The difference is we actually know what evidence Amaral had against the McCanns and it amounted to the square root of diddly squat.
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The difference is we actually know what evidence Amaral had against the McCanns and it amounted to the square root of diddly squat.
Dismissed in disgrace and struck off just like the company...
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09994266/filing-history (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09994266/filing-history)
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The difference is we actually know what evidence Amaral had against the McCanns and it amounted to the square root of diddly squat.
So what square root of diddly squat do you think HCW has...regarding evidence
Mind you when you post u think this thread was a major piece of news...that turned out to be spin.
What more can one say on ..your ..opinion VS
post 13
Didn't take long for the resident troll to attempt to spin this major piece of news into oblivion.
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So what square root of diddly squat do you think HCW has...regarding evidence
Mind you when you post u think this thread was a major piece of news...that turned out to be spin.
What more can one say on ..your ..opinion VS
post 13
Didn't take long for the resident troll to attempt to spin this major piece of news into oblivion.
I have no idea what evidence HCW has but unlike you I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and unlike Admin I don’t pretend to know for a fact that the case against CB is BS. I don’t think that’s unreasonable of me do you? Secondly do you have a named cite from the PJ confirming no apology was given? No you don’t. So just who is spinning? My money’s on the anti McCann pro PJ brigade.
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Do you realise how silly that post is ....what he says proves nothing.
Its just like me saying G.A. says the mccs disposed the body of maddie.
Mind you I know who I believe........an after all he was privy to the info at the time.
If I was you I would just give up on trying to persuade me otherwise. L
It is not silly at all. Wolters is explaining why he is not giving the evidence away. Unlike Amaral who couldn't wait to reveal the 'evidence' he had. All completely false.
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As an official spokesperson for the prosecutors' office, one might expect him to restrict himself to official press statements
If he avoided giving exclusive interviews to select journalists and documentary makers, he wouldn't need to explain anything.
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As an official spokesperson for the prosecutors' office, one might expect him to restrict himself to official press statements
If he avoided giving exclusive interviews to select journalists and documentary makers, he wouldn't need to explain anything.
Excellent point.
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I have no idea what evidence HCW has but unlike you I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and unlike Admin I don’t pretend to know for a fact that the case against CB is BS. I don’t think that’s unreasonable of me do you? Secondly do you have a named cite from the PJ confirming no apology was given? No you don’t. So just who is spinning? My money’s on the anti McCann pro PJ brigade.
Of course it isn't unreasonable VS. Afterall the only thing we have is opinions ......of who we believe and who we dont.
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As an official spokesperson for the prosecutors' office, one might expect him to restrict himself to official press statements
If he avoided giving exclusive interviews to select journalists and documentary makers, he wouldn't need to explain anything.
What would be said if he didn't give interviews? He's already pointed out that he's not going to give away what evidence he has, yet they still go to him for interviews. I don't believe he goes to the press they come to him. If he didn't give an interview, he would probably be trashed for being afraid to say anything as he hasn't any evidence.
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What would be said if he didn't give interviews? He's already pointed out that he's not going to give away what evidence he has, yet they still go to him for interviews. I don't believe he goes to the press they come to him. If he didn't give an interview, he would probably be trashed for being afraid to say anything as he hasn't any evidence.
Justice works in silence. Perhaps someone should remind Wolter of that.
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Justice works in silence. Perhaps someone should remind Wolter of that.
HCW doesn’t need lessons on how to do his job from you or the author of that meaningless quote ( rent-a-gob Gonc who has made a living by being the opposite of silent as long as he is paid handsomely for mouthing off views to the media).
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Justice works in silence. Perhaps someone should remind Wolter of that.
Yes, good for Wolters in keeping silent on what evidence he has.
Unlike the person who quoted that, he's still blabbing to this day.
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Anyway. If anyone should be apologising, it's the McCanns. They owe an apology to the PJ, Amaral, the state of Portugal & all who live there, & to Madeleine, & to me for having to put up with reading about them all the sodding time.
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Oh My Whatever. No Electricity for two days and No Internet or Telephone for three days so I am still catching up. But at least this Forum has been getting by without my hopefully surreptitious interjections to keep everything going. Blog Later.
Brueckner? I still have no informed opinions although it seems to me to be a frightful amount of risk to take to abduct a child only to kill her. Abduction for money however, seems to be a far more plausible explanation, although he can't have done it alone.
Glad to see that most of you aren't actually insulting each other.
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Anyway. If anyone should be apologising, it's the McCanns. They owe an apology to the PJ, Amaral, the state of Portugal & all who live there, & to Madeleine, & to me for having to put up with reading about them all the sodding time.
Please yourself. No one will miss you.
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You would think if this had been a so called planned abduction...all 3 children would have gone.
A so called abduction done by a below average waste of space [or what ever you want him called].
Committed the perfect crime......leaving not one single clue in 5a.
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You would think if this had been a so called planned abduction...all 3 children would have gone.
A so called abduction done by a below average waste of space [or what ever you want him called].
Committed the perfect crime......leaving not one single clue in 5a.
He did say if he committed such a crime....taking a child and using it for days....that he wouldn't be caught if he destroyed all the evidence....message found on his laptop
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He did say if he committed such a crime....taking a child and using it for days....that he wouldn't be caught if he destroyed all the evidence....message found on his laptop
2 questions, if I may.
Who found this on CB's computer and how did it get into the public domain ?
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2 questions, if I may.
Who found this on CB's computer and how did it get into the public domain ?
C B was staying with a friend...a paedophile known to the police. In a police surprise raid CB wasn't home but the police found the laptop belonging to CB
Information released by Wolters to German newspapers
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You would think if this had been a so called planned abduction...all 3 children would have gone.
A so called abduction done by a below average waste of space [or what ever you want him called].
Committed the perfect crime......leaving not one single clue in 5a.
I think 3 kids might have been a bit of a handful for one abductor within a very limited time frame.
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I think 3 kids might have been a bit of a handful for one abductor within a very limited time frame.
Why ever not? One under each arm and one on his back.
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Why ever not? One under each arm and one on his back.
@)(++(* 8@??)(
Touchee Elli
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I have no idea what evidence HCW has but unlike you I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and unlike Admin I don’t pretend to know for a fact that the case against CB is BS. I don’t think that’s unreasonable of me do you? Secondly do you have a named cite from the PJ confirming no apology was given? No you don’t. So just who is spinning? My money’s on the anti McCann pro PJ brigade.
Admin I don’t pretend to know for a fact that the case against CB is BS.
But, you must admit it is a possibility..........
like every thing is in this case.every thing seems to be on the balance of probabilities ...
not always facts. or evidence.
EXCLUSIVE
NewsWorld News
MADDIE WORRY Madeleine McCann witness’s ‘bulls**t’ could DESTROY desperate battle for justice – his word ‘means nothing’, cops warned.
GERMAN cops have been warned that their case against the prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's disappearance could collapse due to their "Bulls***" witness.
The investigators' over-reliance on "tarnished" evidence from the key witness could destroy their fight for justice, insider sources claim.
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I think 3 kids might have been a bit of a handful for one abductor within a very limited time frame.
So it seems you believe he was working entirely on his own.
why do you think he went for Maddie the heaviest child.
In his very limited time frame also ....he took time to open a window...when both doors were open.
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Admin I don’t pretend to know for a fact that the case against CB is BS.
But, you must admit it is a possibility..........
like every thing is in this case.every thing seems to be on the balance of probabilities ...
not always facts. or evidence.
EXCLUSIVE
NewsWorld News
MADDIE WORRY Madeleine McCann witness’s ‘bulls**t’ could DESTROY desperate battle for justice – his word ‘means nothing’, cops warned.
GERMAN cops have been warned that their case against the prime suspect in Madeleine McCann's disappearance could collapse due to their "Bulls***" witness.
The investigators' over-reliance on "tarnished" evidence from the key witness could destroy their fight for justice, insider sources claim.
The salient part of my post was “pretend to know”. I don’t pretend to know whether or not the case is bs. It might be, on the other hand it might not. From all the information I know about CB it would seem that he is a credible suspect. Hope that makes my position crystal clear.
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So it seems you believe he was working entirely on his own.
why do you think he went for Maddie the heaviest child.
In his very limited time frame also ....he took time to open a window...when both doors were open.
No idea. Perhaps he flipped a coin to decide which child to nick. Perhaps he had certain predelictions that led him to make the choice he did. Perhaps he did have an accomplice, perhaps he didn’t, both possible, plausible even. It takes a few seconds to open a window, why an abductor might do so has been discussed ad nauseam. Anything else you want me to answer?
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No idea. Perhaps he flipped a coin to decide which child to nick. Perhaps he had certain predelictions that led him to make the choice he did. Perhaps he did have an accomplice, perhaps he didn’t, both possible, plausible even. It takes a few seconds to open a window, why an abductor might do so has been discussed ad nauseam. Anything else you want me to answer?
OR maybe he didn't take any...because he wasn't there.
Obviously you think it CB ...........all your eggs in one basket with the latest patsy it seems.
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So it seems you believe he was working entirely on his own.
why do you think he went for Maddie the heaviest child.
In his very limited time frame also ....he took time to open a window...when both doors were open.
It would have been extremely difficult to control two small toddlers. He took the child that could be easily tricked, maybe he said he was taking her to her parents, who knows. I'm still wondering if he sold her. Easier to sell than two little ones.
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It would have been extremely difficult to control two small toddlers. He took the child that could be easily tricked, maybe he said he was taking her to her parents, who knows. I'm still wondering if he sold her. Easier to sell than two little ones.
Don't you believe Wolters then? Why Not? He says Brueckner murdered her. Not once has he suggested she was sold.
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It would have been extremely difficult to control two small toddlers. He took the child that could be easily tricked, maybe he said he was taking her to her parents, who knows. I'm still wondering if he sold her. Easier to sell than two little ones.
Or, maybe he wasn't even there.
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It would have been extremely difficult to control two small toddlers. He took the child that could be easily tricked, maybe he said he was taking her to her parents, who knows. I'm still wondering if he sold her. Easier to sell than two little ones.
Who knows, but if he did, then he didn't murder her, which leaves Wolters theory high and dry.
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Who knows, but if he did, then he didn't murder her, which leaves Wolters theory high and dry.
I am also still wondering if Brueckner sold Madeleine. Or Abducted her to order. But then my comprehension of his mind is limited. But in so far as we know he has only physically harmed adults as yet. Not that there will be any more of that after the Five Charges have been dealt with.
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OR maybe he didn't take any...because he wasn't there.
Obviously you think it CB ...........all your eggs in one basket with the latest patsy it seems.
And all your eggs are in another basket marked McCann, and none of your eggs are ever going to hatch, so ner ner ner ner ner.
Such is the childish nonsense this forum has been reduced to.
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Anyway. If anyone deserves an apology, it isn't the McCanns, it's Christian Bruckner. Wolters owes him an apology for his libellous smears.
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I am also still wondering if Brueckner sold Madeleine. Or Abducted her to order. But then my comprehension of his mind is limited. But in so far as we know he has only physically harmed adults as yet. Not that there will be any more of that after the Five Charges have been dealt with.
I don't believe it was a burglary gone wrong. He was watching 5a he knew all their moves, he knew the children were left by themselves.
The man seen watching the apartment was wearing a leather jacket, CB wore a leather jacket. The description of the man matched CB.
He told his girlfriend he had a horrible job to do next day. That was May 4th.
His phone rang near 5a on the night of 5th of May.
He has said himself he is a business man.
He went somewhere 5th of May.
He was a drug smuggler, so knew some very dodgy people.
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I don't believe it was a burglary gone wrong. He was watching 5a he knew all their moves, he knew the children were left by themselves.
The man seen watching the apartment was wearing a leather jacket, CB wore a leather jacket. The description of the man matched CB.
He told his girlfriend he had a horrible job to do next day. That was May 4th.
His phone rang near 5a on the night of 5th of May.
He has said himself he is a business man.
He went somewhere 5th of May.
He was a drug smuggler, so knew some very dodgy people.
The e fit looks nothing like Brueckner though. It must have been his accomplice, who also wore a leather jacket.
(https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/tasminman.gif)
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And all your eggs are in another basket marked McCann, and none of your eggs are ever going to hatch, so ner ner ner ner ner.
Such is the childish nonsense this forum has been reduced to.
Wholeheartedly in agreement with that 🙄
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We'll have to start taking the case seriously when Brueckner is charged.
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And all your eggs are in another basket marked McCann, and none of your eggs are ever going to hatch, so ner ner ner ner ner.
Such is the childish nonsense this forum has been reduced to.
I think what is childish is your reaction.
At least I have been consistent in what I believe.......even commenting 3 year ago thi would come to nothing.
Yet it seems you prefer to hang on HCW every word... Even though imo he used maddie case as a means to his own end [probably the 5 cases he now has]
He said: “Helge B is someone the Portuguese officers have known about for a long, long time. But he was discounted as a credible witness ages ago.
"He was always seen as a Walter Mitty character who would talk 'BS' all the time hence the nickname.
"They warned the Germans he was a bit of a fantasist and that he was 'flaky' and how he'd say what you wanted to hear. But, for some reason the German detectives latched on to him.
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May we have a bit less of the insults please. Thank you in advance.
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I think what is childish is your reaction.
At least I have been consistent in what I believe.......even commenting 3 year ago thi would come to nothing.
Yet it seems you prefer to hang on HCW every word... Even though imo he used maddie case as a means to his own end [probably the 5 cases he now has]
He said: “Helge B is someone the Portuguese officers have known about for a long, long time. But he was discounted as a credible witness ages ago.
"He was always seen as a Walter Mitty character who would talk 'BS' all the time hence the nickname.
"They warned the Germans he was a bit of a fantasist and that he was 'flaky' and how he'd say what you wanted to hear. But, for some reason the German detectives latched on to him.
For information
You have not attributed the source you have quoted. That is a breach of one of the very few requirements of forum rules.
Please add a cite. Thank you
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I think what is childish is your reaction.
At least I have been consistent in what I believe.......even commenting 3 year ago thi would come to nothing.
Yet it seems you prefer to hang on HCW every word... Even though imo he used maddie case as a means to his own end [probably the 5 cases he now has]
He said: “Helge B is someone the Portuguese officers have known about for a long, long time. But he was discounted as a credible witness ages ago.
"He was always seen as a Walter Mitty character who would talk 'BS' all the time hence the nickname.
"They warned the Germans he was a bit of a fantasist and that he was 'flaky' and how he'd say what you wanted to hear. But, for some reason the German detectives latched on to him.
My eggs are not all in one basket, I don’t hang on HCW’s every word. I know I’m not nearly as smart or as insightful or as free thinking as you are but please desist from making similar unfounded claims, many thanks.
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I think what is childish is your reaction.
At least I have been consistent in what I believe.......even commenting 3 year ago thi would come to nothing.
Yet it seems you prefer to hang on HCW every word... Even though imo he used maddie case as a means to his own end [probably the 5 cases he now has]
He said: “Helge B is someone the Portuguese officers have known about for a long, long time. But he was discounted as a credible witness ages ago.
"He was always seen as a Walter Mitty character who would talk 'BS' all the time hence the nickname.
"They warned the Germans he was a bit of a fantasist and that he was 'flaky' and how he'd say what you wanted to hear. But, for some reason the German detectives latched on to him.
The Germans have invested so much in this that failure is not an option for them. Christian Bruckner might well be one real nasty piece of work but it would be an injustice if he was nailed for something he didn't do just to satisfy their own egos.
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The Germans have invested so much in this that failure is not an option for them. Christian Bruckner might well be one real nasty piece of work but it would be an injustice if he was nailed for something he didn't do just to satisfy their own egos.
We can look forward to a conviction in your learned view then? What are they waiting for if it’s a foregone conclusion ithat it will be a stitch up?
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The Germans have invested so much in this that failure is not an option for them. Christian Bruckner might well be one real nasty piece of work but it would be an injustice if he was nailed for something he didn't do just to satisfy their own egos.
Even if CB is not brought to trial, BKA/prosecutors will claim success because they 'know' he's guilty and besides, they have convicted him for at least one rape in their pursuit of this case, which wouldn't have otherwise happened.
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Even if CB is not brought to trial, BKA/prosecutors will claim success because they 'know' he's guilty and besides, they have convicted him for at least one rape in their pursuit of this case, which wouldn't have otherwise happened.
Not very much concerning Brueckner in Portugal would have happened if The PJ had even tried to do their job.
Where was Amaral during his feted success supposedly catching Drug Runners, of which Brueckner was one?
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Not very much concerning Brueckner in Portugal would have happened if The PJ had even tried to do their job.
Where was Amaral during his feted success supposedly catching Drug Runners, of which Brueckner was one?
I'm not overly bothered by what Amaral did or didn't do back in the day. It's 2023 now
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I'm not overly bothered by what Amaral did or didn't do back in the day. It's 2023 now
Germany was forced into dealing with this serial criminal because for ten years he was still on the rampage. Ten years during which time Portugal did nothing. What a disgrace whenever it happened. But it all began with Amaral's Big Mouth.
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Germany weren't forced to do anything - they chose to do it.
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Germany weren't forced to do anything - they chose to do it.
They had Brueckner handed to them on a plate by Busching & Seyforth. Amaral wasn't privy to their information. Maybe they should have spoken up sooner.
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My eggs are not all in one basket, I don’t hang on HCW’s every word. I know I’m not nearly as smart or as insightful or as free thinking as you are but please desist from making similar unfounded claims, many thanks.
Aww, well I had to have asleep on that one VS.
Wasn't sure if you were offended...... or just you being you.
If it did offend you my fellow poster ...I will remove the post.
I dont come on here to upset anyone ....I come on as as a poster - posting my view on what happened to Maddie.
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For information
You have not attributed the source you have quoted. That is a breach of one of the very few requirements of forum rules.
Please add a cite. Thank you
Glad you asked its a good read really
“They’ve pinned pretty much their entire case on his evidence, despite being warned he wasn’t to be trusted. Now, with him looking to back out, their credibility has been totally shot to bits."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23968285/german-cops-warned-madeleine-mccann-witness/
The insider said German cops likely held on to Helge B's account as they have no other leads.
The source added: “The biggest problem in all of this is that the German cops have nowhere else to go right now.
"There are no new leads and no evidence they have. Without this guy's curtains.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23991488/madeleine-mccann-suspect-evidence-tarnished/
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The Germans have invested so much in this that failure is not an option for them. Christian Bruckner might well be one real nasty piece of work but it would be an injustice if he was nailed for something he didn't do just to satisfy their own egos.
Completely agree.
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Germany weren't forced to do anything - they chose to do it.
What? Chose to remove one of their citizens who was a violent sexual predator from the streets of The World because Portugal refused to get involved?
I don't think they had any choice. Do you?
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What? Chose to remove one of their citizens who was a violent sexual predator from the streets of The World because Portugal refused to get involved?
I don't think they had any choice. Do you?
When did Portugal refuse to get involved? I don't remember reading about that anywhere.
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Glad you asked its a good read really
“They’ve pinned pretty much their entire case on his evidence, despite being warned he wasn’t to be trusted. Now, with him looking to back out, their credibility has been totally shot to bits."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23968285/german-cops-warned-madeleine-mccann-witness/
The insider said German cops likely held on to Helge B's account as they have no other leads.
The source added: “The biggest problem in all of this is that the German cops have nowhere else to go right now.
"There are no new leads and no evidence they have. Without this guy's curtains.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23991488/madeleine-mccann-suspect-evidence-tarnished/
No new leads & no evidence they have. Without this guy's curtains?
I'm sorry, what have Helge Busching's curtains got to do with anything?
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What? Chose to remove one of their citizens who was a violent sexual predator from the streets of The World because Portugal refused to get involved?
I don't think they had any choice. Do you?
There is always a choice.
They are not the world's policemen and could have chosen to pursue him for crimes he committed within Germany.
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No new leads & no evidence they have. Without this guy's curtains?
I'm sorry, what have Helge Busching's curtains got to do with anything?
I would assume it means ...his testimony/statements... is the concrete evidence of the case against CB.
If he drops out .....curtains means.
informal death or ruin; the end: if the enemy see us it will be curtains for us.
not literally meaning that ......but of the case against CB
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There is always a choice.
They are not the world's policemen and could have chosen to pursue him for crimes he committed within Germany.
Has he committed any crimes in Germany in the last 20 years?
But, from your comment I can only presume that you think Britain should not pursue The McCanns if they were Prime Suspects and no one else was interested.
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I would assume it means ...his testimony/statements... is the concrete evidence of the case against CB.
If he drops out .....curtains means.
informal death or ruin; the end: if the enemy see us it will be curtains for us.
not literally meaning that ......but of the case against CB
Wolters says he has not revealed the concrete evidence so it can't be the concrete evidence
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I think Busching's curtains might be the concrete evidence.
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Has he committed any crimes in Germany in the last 20 years?
But, from your comment I can only presume that you think Britain should not pursue The McCanns if they were Prime Suspects and no one else was interested.
I do believe therehas never been any intention to do so.. Even if OG had incontrovertible evidence of their guilt, they would look elsewhere.
OG was never set up for that purpose.
IMO
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I do believe therehas never been any intention to do so.. Even if OG had incontrovertible evidence of their guilt, they would look elsewhere.
OG was never set up for that purpose.
IMO
So you think that OG is corrupt.
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So you think that OG is corrupt.
Not as individual officers, but it's run out of the Home Office and they certainly are corrupt - at least morally.
Individual serving officers do as they're told, if they know what's good for them.
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Wolters says he has not revealed the concrete evidence so it can't be the concrete evidence
Ok, but I believe he is still waiting to find this concrete evidence...as he obviously hasn't got it now.
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Ok, but I believe he is still waiting to find this concrete evidence...as he obviously hasn't got it now.
Probably this Raac stuff - collapses when subject to pressure.
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I do believe therehas never been any intention to do so.. Even if OG had incontrovertible evidence of their guilt, they would look elsewhere.
OG was never set up for that purpose.
IMO
Oh dear, I had you pegged as many things but never a Consiral00ny.
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Ok, but I believe he is still waiting to find this concrete evidence...as he obviously hasn't got it now.
No he still has,it but from what he says he thinks they may be able to find the body
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No he still has,it but from what he says he thinks they may be able to find the body
Oh,.... ok.
Mentioning body just makes you feel so sad to remember no matter what Maddy didn't stand a chance at 3 year old.
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Oh,.... ok.
Mentioning body just makes you feel so sad to remember no matter what Maddy didn't stand a chance at 3 year old.
I agree...very,very sad
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It was sad but I'm over it now. It was 16 years ago after all & she wasn't my daughter so I don't really care that much anymore.
What I do find sad though is that Christian Brueckner's right to the presumption of innocence isn't being respected.
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Does anyone know why Germany felt obliged to pursue Brueckner for crimes committed in Portugal?
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Does anyone know why Germany felt obliged to pursue Brueckner for crimes committed in Portugal?
Maybe because he is a German national and the German police knew that the Portuguese weren’t interested in bringing anyone to justice for these crimes?
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Does anyone know why Germany felt obliged to pursue Brueckner for crimes committed in Portugal?
It is in accordance with German law. When a crime is suspected the police and prosecutors are obliged to investigate it.
That is why Diane Menke got justice in 2019 for crimes committed against her in 2005 and why there are five other crimes coming to trial perhaps in February 2024 or maybe March.
The BKA uncovered crimes during the Madeleine investigation and there were probably more but these are probably the only ones they have evidence to pursue.
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There was so much chat in the beginning about The Fact that only Portugal could indict the McCanns that it came as some surprise to me that this is obviously Not True. But this was only happening because The Portuguese PJ were convinced that The McCanns were guilty and no one else was. And The Sceptics desperately wanted Kate and Gerry done for. How very disappointed they must have been when that all fell flat on it's face. Hence the great endeavours now to defend Brueckner.
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To be fair, we don't actually need to go to great lengths to defend Brueckner. Because he isn't being charged with anything relating to Maddie. Not today, nor tomorrow, next year or ever.
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Maybe because he is a German national and the German police knew that the Portuguese weren’t interested in bringing anyone to justice for these crimes?
Or publicity What bigger high profile case in the world it seems to use to get CB face out there. seems it succeeded.
as B has posed below.
why there are five other crimes coming to trial perhaps in February 2024 or maybe March.
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Or publicity What bigger high profile case in the world it seems to use to get CB face out there. seems it succeeded.
as B has posed below.
why there are five other crimes coming to trial perhaps in February 2024 or maybe March.
That wasn’t the question asked - go back and re-read it before commenting again.
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That wasn’t the question asked - go back and re-read it before commenting again.
Oi who made you head prefect...but never mind I wont burst your bubble....and will oblige.
German police knew that the Portuguese weren’t interested in bringing anyone to justice for these crimes?
Your wrong there IMO
They were interested.. but seems with all the UK interference - were not allowed to pursue there investigation.
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Oi who made you head prefect...but never mind I wont burst your bubble....and will oblige.
German police knew that the Portuguese weren’t interested in bringing anyone to justice for these crimes?
Your wrong there IMO
They were interested.. but seems with all the UK interference - were not allowed to pursue there investigation.
I am not wrong, I was talking about the rape, indecent exposure and child molestation crimes. Did the UK prevent the PJ from pursuing those investigations?
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Oi who made you head prefect...but never mind I wont burst your bubble....and will oblige.
German police knew that the Portuguese weren’t interested in bringing anyone to justice for these crimes?
Your wrong there IMO
They were interested.. but seems with all the UK interference - were not allowed to pursue there investigation.
Chalk monitor rather than head prefect, I think
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Chalk monitor rather than head prefect, I think
@)(++(* 8((()*/
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It is in accordance with German law. When a crime is suspected the police and prosecutors are obliged to investigate it.
That is why Diane Menke got justice in 2019 for crimes committed against her in 2005 and why there are five other crimes coming to trial perhaps in February 2024 or maybe March.
The BKA uncovered crimes during the Madeleine investigation and there were probably more but these are probably the only ones they have evidence to pursue.
Sadly, no one seems interested in what really happened to little Joana Cipriano, even though Bruckner had a home around 10 mins drive away. What I haven't been able to find is whether he was actually around there at the time (he was earlier in the year; stopped by road police).
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Sadly, no one seems interested in what really happened to little Joana Cipriano, even though Bruckner had a home around 10 mins drive away. What I haven't been able to find is whether he was actually around there at the time (he was earlier in the year; stopped by road police).
I would like to know more about this.
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Sadly, no one seems interested in what really happened to little Joana Cipriano, even though Bruckner had a home around 10 mins drive away. What I haven't been able to find is whether he was actually around there at the time (he was earlier in the year; stopped by road police).
Joana comes from two very respected blood lines
1) The Ciprianos (= from Cyprus)
2) The Guerreros (reputedly her father)
Carana, the following statements were well reported at the time
1) A black limousine was noticed cruising around Joanas home town of Figueira at the relevant period. There must have been something unusual about this for it to be reported. I always thought that it was an elite who probably played at the nearby golf course when he spotted her.
But at that time, I was not aware that Bruckner had such a black limousine. So who lnows ?
2) A man was noticed sleeping in a camper van for a few nights near to Joanas home. This van was reported to have vanished at the time Joana vanished.
The van was found abandoned in a field at Praia de Luz.
Not so many men would chose to sleep on their own in an inland village of the Algarve in a backyard sort of place. Not so many men would abandom their "home" in a field in a neighbouring village, where Bruckner lived incidently.
As it was abandoned I am inclined to think that it was bought especially for the job of taking Joanna and that she was stolen via motor home possibly for a big fee for a rich man.
The campervan man was not necessarily Bruckner, but interesting possible pointers imo.
I no longer have the energy to search for the cites someone will ask for, but it has already been covered in this forum in some considerable detail and some will remember.