UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2018, 10:13:36 PM
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I believe Amy Tierney was telling the truth.
I believe Amy Tierney was telling the truth about:
1. Being on duty.
2. Seeing the window open.
3. Seeing the shutter up.
4. Knowing that Gerry went to ring the police.
5. (indirectly) Informing Lyndsay before 10:17 PM
If it is not right on the forum to say someone is lying how is anyone going to argue against that?
17
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For Amy being on duty doesn't mean she has to be in the night creche building. She has an office or a desk at least over at the Tapas area. I believe there was an earlier incident which gets cleared up quickly that takes Amy over to the Tapas and while she is still over there the McCann incident breaks out so within minutes of Kate raising the alarm Amy is able to ascertain that it is Madeleine McCann who is missing this time, and goes to the apartment, early enough before Gerry or Dianne has touched the window or the shutter.
Minutes later she contacts Lyndsay who in turn contacts Emma Knights. Emma Knight gets the call at 10:17 so I propose that the call from Amy to Lyndsay was prior to that. At a guess 10:15.
With the walk back to the office Amy would have left the McCann apartment at least a minute prior to that. So I propose her check of the apartment was complete at 10:14 PM
10:14 PM would be before or at about the time Dianne returns to the apartment, but that is after Gerry returns from his initial search around the perimeter of the apartment.
When she says Kate was there with a friend that friend could well have been Rachael who was staying next door.
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I don't often read Rachael's statements so let's see if there is any indication Rachael was on hand.
Well I struggle a bit to get the picture of what she was doing, but by the sound of it she went to the patio door but didn't go in and then walked around to her apartment to check on Grace, started talking to Fiona and Jane. Rachael is uncertain about what Fiona does in some ways. For if Fiona came through the McCann's apartment early she would have passed by the raised shutter.
Looking at Fiona's rogatory statement:
"1578 'When you, when you rose from the Tapas table and you followed Kate'.
Reply 'Mmm'.
1578 'To their apartment 5A, you said that you didn't go into the apartment'.
Reply 'Yeah didn't go in'.
1578 'Who were you with at that point''
Reply 'Well we were altogether really, I think I was probably at the back with Matt, had some high heels on that I couldn't really run very fast, remember that'.
1578 'And then''
Reply 'I got to the bottom of the steps and Dave and Fi and Gerry and Kate were already sort of on the balcony of Gerry and Kates apartment, and I think had maybe already gone inside, erm and I think, I think Russell and Matt maybe went into the garden and just had a quick scoot around there to make sure'.
1578 'And then shortly after yourself and Matt''
Reply 'Yeah'.
1578 'Went round'.
Reply 'Went round'.
1578 'To your apartment''
Reply 'Yeah'.
1578 'How soon after'' "
As they walked around they didn't look to see if the shutters were up.!
"after we checked on Grace and come out and I think perhaps Kate and Fi were standing by the window, like on the outside of the apartment and no, Kate, I think Kate had said you know, somebodys taken her, cos the shutter was up and the window was open, erm yeah, I think it was then that we kind of realised that she'd been taken, erm as, you know, as opposed to just kind of wandering out of her bed and just wondering where people were, erm and then, and I remember then going to talk to Jane and Matt went off and that, I went to talk to Jane and said you know, that Madeleine had disappeared and the window was open and the shutter was up, erm and then Jane said to me that when she'd come back to do her check, erm she'd seen somebody carrying a child, walking kind of across the top of the T junction, as she, as she'd been walking up from the, from the Ocean Club, they'd been walking across the top of the road and we kind of said well you know, could have been, not could have been anyone but still sure it couldn't have been Madeleine because Gerry, cos you know if when she was, when she left the table to come up to do her check, Gerry was talking to Jez in the road,"
They (Jane and Rachael) heard Kate and Fiona discussing the open shutters and window, but presumably Gerry had lowered it by then.
So Rachael could be the person Amy Tierney saw provided it was before Rachael walked around to the car park side of the building.
What does Amy actually say about this? http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm "In reply to the question asked, she said that the back door (porta das traseiras) that leads to the parking area was closed, but she doesn't know whether the front door (porta da frente) was locked as when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open."
It is possible this female friend was Fiona or Dianne, but I tend to think if was Dianne there would be a comment about the age gap. Jane is in her apartment and Rachael is making her way around to her apartment. Dianne is probably sitting in the Tapas waiting for everyone to come back. So what would have stopped Fiona seeing the window open and the shutters up?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
"1485
'Right. I have got to ask you this question, did you see the shutters open or did you see them closed''
Reply
'On the Thursday''
1485
'Yeah'.
Reply
'I didn't see them'.
1485
'You didn't see them''
Reply
'What, after Madeleine or''
00.34.44
1485
'No, when you was walking to''
Reply
'When I was walking, I wouldn't have even noticed, so I couldn't, I couldn't tell you whether they were open or shut'.
1485
'And your route, how far away from the McCANN's shutters, wall if you like, how far would you be away from it''
Reply
'Quite far away, erm, it's a distance, as I say, you've got a wall and then the car park and the road, so we were on the road, so it's, erm, I'm not very good with distances, I'd say, I don't know, around thirty metres, something like that'.
1485
'Yeah'.
Reply
'Maybe longer'.
1485
'Okay. So you then walked down the road, you bump into Matt, you turn right, you go in towards the Tapas''"
Well she didn't see them open as they went to the Tapas.
I'm not sure where Amy has her office but if it was near the Baby Club area this would have been an ideal time for Amy to become aware of the alarm.
"Reply
'Erm, tut, she sort of raced back and she just appeared at the doors of the sort of reception area and just shouted across, erm, 'She's gone. Gerry, Madeleine's gone'."
So we all were sort of racing behind Kate and Gerry, erm, back up to the apartment. Erm, we didn't go in at that point, I think Kate, erm, Gerry must have rushed in with Kate and pretty much immediately Dave, erm, Matt, Russell and myself split up in four different directions just to do a search, you know, again assuming that she must have just wandered off. Erm, tut, so, you know, I don't know which way they went, but I, I went round the back of, erm, tut, well this way around the back of the apartments and round the back of the tennis courts on the main road and then cut down in front of the Baptista Supermarket and back up, that was the route I did'.
Really as I read this I tend to think it was Rachael who was near the door when Amy turned up as Fiona does quite a long search which would have taken the best part of 10 minutes to complete.
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I think Amy is mistaken that she saw the shutter up outside Madeleine's bedroom window because Dianne got it stuck when she tried to raise it. Amy did not get to apartment 5A before Dianne and there is no evidence suggesting that she did when co-workers said she was at the night creche.
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I don't often read Rachael's statements so let's see if there is any indication Rachael was on hand.
Well I struggle a bit to get the picture of what she was doing, but by the sound of it she went to the patio door but didn't go in and then walked around to her apartment to check on Grace, started talking to Fiona and Jane. Rachael is uncertain about what Fiona does in some ways. For if Fiona came through the McCann's apartment early she would have passed by the raised shutter.
Looking at Fiona's rogatory statement:
"1578 'When you, when you rose from the Tapas table and you followed Kate'.
Reply 'Mmm'.
1578 'To their apartment 5A, you said that you didn't go into the apartment'.
Reply 'Yeah didn't go in'.
1578 'Who were you with at that point''
Reply 'Well we were altogether really, I think I was probably at the back with Matt, had some high heels on that I couldn't really run very fast, remember that'.
1578 'And then''
Reply 'I got to the bottom of the steps and Dave and Fi and Gerry and Kate were already sort of on the balcony of Gerry and Kates apartment, and I think had maybe already gone inside, erm and I think, I think Russell and Matt maybe went into the garden and just had a quick scoot around there to make sure'.
1578 'And then shortly after yourself and Matt''
Reply 'Yeah'.
1578 'Went round'.
Reply 'Went round'.
1578 'To your apartment''
Reply 'Yeah'.
1578 'How soon after'' "
As they walked around they didn't look to see if the shutters were up.!
"after we checked on Grace and come out and I think perhaps Kate and Fi were standing by the window, like on the outside of the apartment and no, Kate, I think Kate had said you know, somebodys taken her, cos the shutter was up and the window was open, erm yeah, I think it was then that we kind of realised that she'd been taken, erm as, you know, as opposed to just kind of wandering out of her bed and just wondering where people were, erm and then, and I remember then going to talk to Jane and Matt went off and that, I went to talk to Jane and said you know, that Madeleine had disappeared and the window was open and the shutter was up, erm and then Jane said to me that when she'd come back to do her check, erm she'd seen somebody carrying a child, walking kind of across the top of the T junction, as she, as she'd been walking up from the, from the Ocean Club, they'd been walking across the top of the road and we kind of said well you know, could have been, not could have been anyone but still sure it couldn't have been Madeleine because Gerry, cos you know if when she was, when she left the table to come up to do her check, Gerry was talking to Jez in the road,"
They (Jane and Rachael) heard Kate and Fiona discussing the open shutters and window, but presumably Gerry had lowered it by then.
So Rachael could be the person Amy Tierney saw provided it was before Rachael walked around to the car park side of the building.
What does Amy actually say about this? http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm "In reply to the question asked, she said that the back door (porta das traseiras) that leads to the parking area was closed, but she doesn't know whether the front door (porta da frente) was locked as when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open."
It is possible this female friend was Fiona or Dianne, but I tend to think if was Dianne there would be a comment about the age gap. Jane is in her apartment and Rachael is making her way around to her apartment. Dianne is probably sitting in the Tapas waiting for everyone to come back. So what would have stopped Fiona seeing the window open and the shutters up?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
"1485
'Right. I have got to ask you this question, did you see the shutters open or did you see them closed''
Reply
'On the Thursday''
1485
'Yeah'.
Reply
'I didn't see them'.
1485
'You didn't see them''
Reply
'What, after Madeleine or''
00.34.44
1485
'No, when you was walking to''
Reply
'When I was walking, I wouldn't have even noticed, so I couldn't, I couldn't tell you whether they were open or shut'.
1485
'And your route, how far away from the McCANN's shutters, wall if you like, how far would you be away from it''
Reply
'Quite far away, erm, it's a distance, as I say, you've got a wall and then the car park and the road, so we were on the road, so it's, erm, I'm not very good with distances, I'd say, I don't know, around thirty metres, something like that'.
1485
'Yeah'.
Reply
'Maybe longer'.
1485
'Okay. So you then walked down the road, you bump into Matt, you turn right, you go in towards the Tapas''"
Well she didn't see them open as they went to the Tapas.
I'm not sure where Amy has her office but if it was near the Baby Club area this would have been an ideal time for Amy to become aware of the alarm.
"Reply
'Erm, tut, she sort of raced back and she just appeared at the doors of the sort of reception area and just shouted across, erm, 'She's gone. Gerry, Madeleine's gone'."
So we all were sort of racing behind Kate and Gerry, erm, back up to the apartment. Erm, we didn't go in at that point, I think Kate, erm, Gerry must have rushed in with Kate and pretty much immediately Dave, erm, Matt, Russell and myself split up in four different directions just to do a search, you know, again assuming that she must have just wandered off. Erm, tut, so, you know, I don't know which way they went, but I, I went round the back of, erm, tut, well this way around the back of the apartments and round the back of the tennis courts on the main road and then cut down in front of the Baptista Supermarket and back up, that was the route I did'.
Really as I read this I tend to think it was Rachael who was near the door when Amy turned up as Fiona does quite a long search which would have taken the best part of 10 minutes to complete.
So who was looking after Fiona's and Rachel's children while they were dashing around, or were they left unattended during this time?
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So who was looking after Fiona's and Rachel's children while they were dashing around, or were they left unattended during this time?
Well Rachael never strayed for for long. The kid is asleep when they (Gerry and Rachel) climbed the stairs. Dianne was supposed to be looking after the Payne's kids using that monitor.
It was interesting that Rachael says Gerry and her checked the stairs and passages at the block G5. It would be a most unlikely place for Madeleine to go own her own. If she was taken up there by someone they would have been trapped up there. The only reason for a kidnapper to go upstairs would be if they had an apartment to hide in up there. Still trapped up there, so I can't see that being done with planning involved.
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I think Amy is mistaken that she saw the shutter up outside Madeleine's bedroom window because Dianne got it stuck when she tried to raise it. Amy did not get to apartment 5A before Dianne and there is no evidence suggesting that she did when co-workers said she was at the night creche.
When did Kate's check end in your opinion? Aren't you always saying it started at 10:03 exactly and took 5 to 10 minutes. So in your theory Kate's alarm starts betweeen 10:08 - 10:13 PM.
We have to have Amy ringing Lyndsay and Lyndsay ringing Emma all before 10:17.
If you were right Amy confirmed Madeleine was missing just on the basis of a lady dropping into the night creche.
Who from the company had checked the McCann's apartment before the phone calls in your theory?
Instead of just picking holes in my theory how about a comprehensive explanation as to how you see it happening please?
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That is not my theory. I believe Kate raised the alarm by 21:55.
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Well Rachael never strayed for for long. The kid is asleep when they (Gerry and Rachel) climbed the stairs. Dianne was supposed to be looking after the Payne's kids using that monitor.
It was interesting that Rachael says Gerry and her checked the stairs and passages at the block G5. It would be a most unlikely place for Madeleine to go own her own. If she was taken up there by someone they would have been trapped up there. The only reason for a kidnapper to go upstairs would be if they had an apartment to hide in up there. Still trapped up there, so I can't see that being done with planning involved.
They checked the stairs but did anyone check the lift?
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That is not my theory. I believe Kate raised the alarm by 21:55.
OK what time did she go for her check then? Where do you get your times from?
From Gerry's statement: "---- Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house."
So you dispute she set out at 10:03 PM and took at most 5 minutes? (Seemed like 10 to Gerry!)
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I find reading your theory difficult for you don't actually make it clear from the beginning.
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I find reading your theory difficult for you don't actually make it clear from the beginning.
Even if it was earlier was Amy there before the window and shutters were shut? That is the important thing. I'm saying she was, and you say she wasn't (I think, but I don't comprehend your theory fully).
If Amy got there at 10:00 PM and she spent 10 minutes confirming Madeleine really was missing and not hiding somewhere in the apartment, that brings it to 10:10 walk back to office, ring Lyndsay 10:12, Lyndsay rings Emma 10:17. We don't know how much time each event took.
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Even if it was earlier was Amy there before the window and shutters were shut? That is the important thing. I'm saying she was, and you say she wasn't (I think, but I don't comprehend your theory fully).
If Amy got there at 10:00 PM and she spent 10 minutes confirming Madeleine really was missing and not hiding somewhere in the apartment, that brings it to 10:10 walk back to office, ring Lyndsay 10:12, Lyndsay rings Emma 10:17. We don't know how much time each event took.
PF do you accept that Amy fully checked out the apartment before she got Lyndsay to call the Missing Child Procedures?
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Amy Tierney on the 6th May doesn't define the time that these events occurred.
"She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.
The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine's shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.
However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.
In reply to the question asked, she said that the back door (porta das traseiras) that leads to the parking area was closed, but she doesn't know whether the front door (porta da frente) was locked as when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open.
After having searched the apartment and verified that the girl was not there, the outside searches were begun."
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PF do you accept that Amy fully checked out the apartment before she got Lyndsay to call the Missing Child Procedures?
No IMO Amy rang Lyndsay straight away from the night creche. Lyndsay informed Emma Knight which was logged at 22:17 and then they initiated the missing child procedure.
22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
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No IMO Amy rang Lyndsay straight away from the night creche. Lyndsay informed Emma Knight which was logged at 22:17 and then they initiated the missing child procedure.
So in your theory no one checked the apartment and really confirmed the child was missing before they initiated the Missing Child Procedures.
In these type of procedures checking the place where the kid was last seen is essential. I'd have to say I really doubt the soundness of your theory.
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Lyndsay Johnson states: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LYNSAY-JAYNE.htm
"She indicates that on May 3rd 2007, at around 10.20pm, she was informed by her colleague Amy T. that Madeleine McCann had disappeared. At that, she immediately launched the "missing child" procedure. This procedure consists of dividing the site into several areas, which are allocated to various of the company's employees to start searching for the missing child. To that effect, the informant explains that, around 10.25pm, the date indicated, the said procedure was begun, "
OK she was informed that Madeleine had disappeared, on what basis was that information based on?
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Just wondering, is this leading anywhere Robbie?
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So in your theory no one checked the apartment and really confirmed the child was missing before they initiated the Missing Child Procedures.
In these type of procedures checking the place where the kid was last seen is essential. I'd have to say I really doubt the soundness of your theory.
Emma Knight when to apartment 5A and met Kate and Fiona.
I was told who the missing girl was and at the beginning of the procedure went to the McCann's apartment to obtain the girl's description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. When I arrived at the apartment, there was a lady on the terrace, whom I now know to be Kate McCann, accompanied by the wife of one of her friends, David Payne. Kate could not say a word, looked very upset and about to cry. It was Mrs Payne who provided me with the details that I needed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
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Just wondering, is this leading anywhere Robbie?
Well do you really think OC initiated their Missing Child Procedure without someone checking out the apartment first. I'm just astounded by PF's idea.
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He's trying to change other witness statements to fit with his theory @)(++(*
Where have I done this? Evidence please.
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Emma Knight when to apartment 5A and met Kate and Fiona.
I was told who the missing girl was and at the beginning of the procedure went to the McCann's apartment to obtain the girl's description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. When I arrived at the apartment, there was a lady on the terrace, whom I now know to be Kate McCann, accompanied by the wife of one of her friends, David Payne. Kate could not say a word, looked very upset and about to cry. It was Mrs Payne who provided me with the details that I needed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
Emma does not describe a search of the McCann's apartment in her statement.
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"I went with Amy and we searched the highest part of the complex behind the apartments. The search lasted for about 10 minutes and then we returned. At that moment John (John Hill the Manager was informed about the disappearance at 22:28 - PF) asked me to go to the apartment the girl had disappeared from and, on behalf of Mark Warner, provide all the help the family might need.
I went to the McCann's apartment, entered by the patio doors and introduced myself to Kate and Mrs Payne. I entered the apartment living room and Kate and Mrs Payne stayed in the main bedroom, from where I could hear them both crying.
The twins were still asleep in the children's bedroom and the door was half open."
"I remember that the police arrived between 00.00 and 00.30, entered by the main door and went to the kitchen with Gerry.
I went to the bedroom where Kate and Mrs Payne were. Kate was still upset, crying and calling Madeleine's name, shouting 'where is she''
She also banged on the headboard. At that moment I went to check on the twins in their room and they were ok.
I remember being in the main bedroom with Kate, Mrs Payne, Gerry, Russell and David who were sitting on the bed and I sat on the floor. At that moment David suggested that the press should be contacted. Russell disagreed, saying they should keep calm and let the police take care of the situation."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
Emma went to the apartment twice - first time to get a description of Madeleine. The second time she entered the apartment.
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How much of that is confirmed by other people's statements?
Does Amy mention this? "I went with Amy and we searched the highest part of the complex behind the apartments. The search lasted for about 10 minutes and then we returned.
Does John Hill mention this? At that moment John (John Hill the Manager was informed about the disappearance at 22:28 - PF) asked me to go to the apartment the girl had disappeared from and, on behalf of Mark Warner, provide all the help the family might need.
I know Kate mentions this in her book: "I went to the McCann's apartment, entered by the patio doors and introduced myself to Kate and Mrs Payne. I entered the apartment living room and Kate and Mrs Payne stayed in the main bedroom, from where I could hear them both crying.
The twins were still asleep in the children's bedroom and the door was half open."
Do the GNR agree with that? "I remember that the police arrived between 00.00 and 00.30, entered by the main door and went to the kitchen with Gerry.
I went to the bedroom where Kate and Mrs Payne were. Kate was still upset, crying and calling Madeleine's name, shouting 'where is she''
She also banged on the headboard. At that moment I went to check on the twins in their room and they were ok.
I remember being in the main bedroom with Kate, Mrs Payne, Gerry, Russell and David who were sitting on the bed and I sat on the floor."
Does David agree with this? "At that moment David suggested that the press should be contacted.
Does Russell confirm this? "Russell disagreed, saying they should keep calm and let the police take care of the situation."
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I wonder whether the McCanns or the Tapas 7 were aware of the Missing Child Procedures and their commencement?
At 10 past 10:00 Gerry asked Matt to run the Ocean Club's twenty-four-hour reception ....
"Excerpts from Kate's book describing their physical searching (paperback version pages 95-113)
David said 'Let's just check the apartment.' I'd done that....I ran out into the car park, flying from end to end, yelling desperately 'Madeleine, Madeleine!' It was so cold and windy....Fear was shearing through my body...
Gerry, David, Russell and Matt split into pairs and dashed around the adjacent apartment blocks.
Just after ten past ten, Gerry asked Matt to run to the Ocean Club's twenty-four-hour reception to get the staff to call the police... By this time the Mark Warner people had rounded up as many of their colleagues as they could, off-duty staff as well as those just finishing their shifts, rousing some of them from their beds. Close to ten-thirty they activated the company's 'missing child search protocol' and mobilised people to comb the complex and its environs., At 10.35pm the police had still not arrived, so Gerry asked Matt if he would go back to the twenty-four-hour reception and find out what was happening. John Hill, the Mark Warner resort manager came up to the veranda behind our apartment. I remember screaming at him to do something. 'Where are the police?' I yelled at him. He tried to reassure me they'd be with us soon, but I could tell that he, too was finding the waiting difficult. Minutes felt like hours...
Gerry had been over to the Mini Club above the twenty-four-hour reception thinking that if Madeleine had been left somewhere, she might make her way back to any place that was familiar to her...
Gerry meanwhile was running from pillar to post, urging me to remain in the apartment with the twins so that I'd be on hand if Madeleine was found and brought back there...
On my insistence, Gerry and Dave went out again to look for some sign of Madeleine. They went up and down the beach in the dark, running, shouting...
I walked briskly up and down Rua dr Agostinho da Silva, sometimes breaking into a jog, clinging to the hope that I'd spot something in the dark...
I couldn't have allowed myself to entertain sleep. I felt Madeleine's terror, and I had to keep vigil with her. I needed to be doing something, but I didn't know where to put myself. I wandered restlessly in and out of the room and onto the balcony. At long last, dawn broke...
As soon as it was light, Gerry and I returned to our search. We went up and down roads we'd never seen before having barely left the Oceab Club complex all week. We jumped over walls and taked through undergrowth. We looked in ditches and holes. All was quiet apart from the sound of barking dogs, which added to the eeriness of the atmosphere I remember opening a big dumpter-type bin and saying to myself please God don't let her be in here. The most striking and horrific thing about it all was that we were completely alone. Nobody else, it seemed was out looking for Madeleine. Just us, her parents.
We must have been out for at least an hour before returning to David and Fiona's apartment... "
The timing of that matches some of Amy's statement. But why no mention of Amy's actual visit?
[Thanks to http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077768/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2018 for the text of the excerpt.]
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In other edition of the book it has "All the screaming and shouting had now alerted other guests and staff that something was amiss and various people were beginning to appear outside the apartment, front and back. "
One of the staff could well have been Amy and that sentence is right after the 10 past 10:00 mention of Gerry telling Matt to go to the reception to ring the police.
Page 95 in my paperback version.
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Even in the 4th May statement Kate gets close to mentioning it. It reads like a summary of what Kate is saying. I certainly can't hear Kate talking as I read it.
"Faced with this situation,she verified that the twins were in their respective beds, unlike Madeleine, who had disappeared. The cover was pulled back and the toys were on the pillow as usual. After searching the whole apartment thoroughly, the interviewee went back, scared and shocked, to the restaurant, to alert her husband and the others to the disappearance. The whole group then set about searching for Madeleine throughout the complex, looked in all the buildings, swimming pool, tennis courts etc....as well as in the apartment with the help of employees, who, at the same time, contacted the authorities.
That contacted the authorities - does that mean Amy contacted Lyndsay? Otherwise which employees that searched the apartment contacted the authorities?
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"I remember saying to Matt at that point 'You go down to main reception and phone the Police'."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
Dave and Russell were just running off sort of shouting, so Fiona, I think, asked me to go and phone the Police, so I actually went down the route to where she would have gone for Nursery drop off, which his back to the, to the main reception essentially, so I went down that route looking for her at that time and I asked the reception to phone the Police, and that must have been about five past, it's difficult to know what time it was at that time, but maybe about ten past ten, five past ten, ten past ten'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
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Even in the 4th May statement Kate gets close to mentioning it. It reads like a summary of what Kate is saying. I certainly can't hear Kate talking as I read it.
"Faced with this situation,she verified that the twins were in their respective beds, unlike Madeleine, who had disappeared. The cover was pulled back and the toys were on the pillow as usual. After searching the whole apartment thoroughly, the interviewee went back, scared and shocked, to the restaurant, to alert her husband and the others to the disappearance. The whole group then set about searching for Madeleine throughout the complex, looked in all the buildings, swimming pool, tennis courts etc....as well as in the apartment with the help of employees, who, at the same time, contacted the authorities.
That contacted the authorities - does that mean Amy contacted Lyndsay? Otherwise which employees that searched the apartment contacted the authorities?
Doesn't Silvia Batista claim to have rung the police? Just phone calls to other staff is hardly enough for the PJ inspector writing the statement to write down "contacted the authorities".
Matt doesn't seem to stress the point enough at reception for he is not mentioned by the receptionist nor are there actual calls made from reception to the police until after John Hill arrives.
Is this what Amy Tierney is mentioning that under their procedures the police are only called after a 20 minute unfruitful search has been made?
Could it be that since the PJ wrote "as well as in the apartment with the help of employees, who, at the same time, contacted the authorities." they are aware and confirming that one of the employees who searched the premise also contacted the Police.
As far as Kate and Amy are concerned Gerry went to get the police involved, then Matt gets the job, but its one of the OC staff that actually does it, but no one knows when the police turn up! That is the truly bizarre bit to me. No one knows when the police turned up.
Am I getting confused? Who actually says "as well as in the apartment with the help of employees, who, at the same time, contacted the authorities"?
It is part of Kate's 4th May statement, so the PJ are saying Kate was aware that one of the staff rang the police from her apartment IMO. That call by Silvia would have been in Portuguese. I can't see how Kate could know who was called and what was said.
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Silvia Batista doesn't mention making a call herself but I did find this reference:
"There is another call of interest on this sheet. 964098114 called GNR Lagos at 11.09pm, lasting 41 seconds. This mobile number was noted as belonging to Silvia Batista. That call I will park for another post."
Now who's research was that? Stranger things ave happened it was Shining in Luz!
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2017/03/09/madeleine-v-the-call-that-wasnt/
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A call to the GNR at 11:09 is hardly of great help, it is only 1 hour too late.