Author Topic: Brexit has well and truly begun!  (Read 281193 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #300 on: January 14, 2019, 05:43:04 PM »
There was an interesting debate this morning. Lord Mandelson was predicting awful consequences if the UK left the EU without a deal. Piers Morgan reminded him of the awful consequences he predicted if the UK didn't join the Euro; which never occured. Why, he asked, should people believe Mandelson this time? A reasonable point.

Esther McVey then spoke on the subject and sounded like the voice of reason to me. She said the Remainers were trying to scare people just as they did during the referendum campaign. According to her we have no need to fear leaving without a deal. Preparations have been made and trading under WTO rules isn't the end of the world; much of our trade is already done that way, as is much of world trade.

I agree with Piers Morgan. He thinks the population were asked a question and promised that the result of the referendum would be honoured. The political classes need to stop patronising the electorate and carry out their democratically expressed will.

The problem, it seems to me, is not whether we stay in the EU or leave, the problem is the reluctance of politicians to uphold democratic ideals. It first emerged in the Labour Party following the election of Corbyn and it now seems that we have few if any politicians who actually believe in democracy. They only believe in it if it delivers what they want in my opinion.
Piers Morgan?  Esther McVey?  The voices of reason??  *Shiver*
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #301 on: January 14, 2019, 05:44:12 PM »
So democracy is only valid if there's a time limit on the result? The people's will is axcceptable every five years but not otherwise? The political class are, in my opinion, heading for a harsh lesson. Unlike our monarchs of old they have no right to rule, devine or otherwise. They are where they are with the permission of the people. Riding roughshod over the will of the people is a very risky game in my opinion.
Please explain why giving the people the opportunity to vote for Theresa May’s deal or no deal or no Brexit is undemocratic, many thanks in advance.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #302 on: January 14, 2019, 05:46:02 PM »
Project Fear is well and truly underway as some MP's attempt to thwart the BREXIT process for their own political ends.  Those MP's who are doing this despite their constituencies voting to leave are being exposed daily in social media. I think their chances of ever being re-elected in any future general election are diminishing by the day.

This week is almost predictable.  Theresa May will lose the Withdrawal Agreement vote tomorrow night, Corbyn will raise a motion of no confidence in her thereafter and will then lose the vote making him look stupid and weak.

I predict too that BREXIT will happen on Friday 29 March by default. The next day will be business as usual, the world will not stop turning.
The next day is a Saturday so business will be bracing itself for the Monday markets and the massivedrop in the value of the pound which will suit your millionaire Brexiteers down to the ground, but your average Brit probably not so much. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Angelo222

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #303 on: January 14, 2019, 06:06:39 PM »
The next day is a Saturday so business will be bracing itself for the Monday markets and the massivedrop in the value of the pound which will suit your millionaire Brexiteers down to the ground, but your average Brit probably not so much.

Rubbish, the currency markets have already factored in BREXIT.  What the man in the street will enjoy though is foodstuffs from outside of the EU getting to them without EU tariffs.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #304 on: January 14, 2019, 06:09:25 PM »
Rubbish, the currency markets have already factored in BREXIT.  What the man in the street will enjoy though is foodstuffs from outside of the EU getting to them without EU tariffs.
It’s rubbish the pound will plummet on April 1st 2019?  OK we’ll see.  What foodstuffs from outside the EU are you looking forward to getting cheaper?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Angelo222

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #305 on: January 14, 2019, 06:10:19 PM »
Please explain why giving the people the opportunity to vote for Theresa May’s deal or no deal or no Brexit is undemocratic, many thanks in advance.

All this twaddle about a second referendum or a people's vote.  Even if there was such a vote and even if a small majority voted to remain this time, we would be back to the same hung Parly.  The only sensible way forward is to leave now on the 29 March and do the deals afterwards. That's what happens in many divorces, they separate and do the deals after the actual split.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #306 on: January 14, 2019, 06:11:30 PM »
All this twaddle about a second referendum or a people's vote.  Even if there was such a vote and even if a small majority voted to remain this time, we would be back to the same hung Parly.  The only sensible way forward is to leave now on the 29 March and do the deals afterwards. That's what happens in many divorces, they separate and do the deals afterwards.
You didn’t explain why giving the people a chance to vote on the final outcome was undemocratic.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Angelo222

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #307 on: January 14, 2019, 06:14:45 PM »
It’s rubbish the pound will plummet on April 1st 2019?  OK we’ll see.  What foodstuffs from outside the EU are you looking forward to getting cheaper?

Actually I can see the pound strengthen after we leave the EU on the 29th March as the future under WTO terms is extremely bright.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #308 on: January 14, 2019, 06:17:29 PM »
You didn’t explain why giving the people a chance to vote on the final outcome was undemocratic.

The people voted to leave the EU so leave it must be.  There is no need whatsoever for a second vote.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #309 on: January 14, 2019, 06:20:54 PM »
Actually I can see the pound strengthen after we leave the EU on the 29th March as the future under WTO terms is extremely bright.
Will we have to wear shades?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #310 on: January 14, 2019, 06:26:38 PM »
The people voted to leave the EU so leave it must be.  There is no need whatsoever for a second vote.
You still didn’t explain why giving the people the opportunity to vote again was undemocratic.  What are Leavers so afraid of?  No deal would win wouldn’t it?  After all it’s “The Will Of The People”.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #311 on: January 14, 2019, 07:46:35 PM »
Please explain why giving the people the opportunity to vote for Theresa May’s deal or no deal or no Brexit is undemocratic, many thanks in advance.

The people have already voted on this issue in a free and fair referendum.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #312 on: January 14, 2019, 08:00:32 PM »
The people have already voted on this issue in a free and fair referendum.
Why is it undemocratic to give them (us) the final say on whether to go for May’s version of Brexit, or something else?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #313 on: January 14, 2019, 09:27:10 PM »
Why is it undemocratic to give them (us) the final say on whether to go for May’s version of Brexit, or something else?

Democracy means abiding by the result of the vote. That's what the politicians need to do rather than thinking up new questions. 
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #314 on: January 14, 2019, 09:32:18 PM »
Democracy means abiding by the result of the vote. That's what the politicians need to do rather than thinking up new questions.
Why is it undemocratic to give people a vote?  Any ideas?  Didn’t think so.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly