Poll

Peer Reviewed Research suggests that Scent Dogs of all types have a maximunm combined accuracy of about 90%

I Understand and Accept this
3 (50%)
I believe Scent Dogs are more accurate than this
1 (16.7%)
I am not sure
1 (16.7%)
I don't believe Scent Dogs generally are that accurate
1 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: July 24, 2018, 11:14:43 AM

Author Topic: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy  (Read 237394 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #480 on: June 23, 2018, 10:38:41 AM »
Eddie was still finding bodies after Jersey, licence or not.

Sniffer dog Eddie and his handler Martin Grime, who were involved in the hunt for Madeleine McCann and in the Soham murders of Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells, were called in. And Eddie pinpointed the exact spot where Bob's body lay.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sanday-murder-trial-the-orkney-island-1052099
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 10:51:26 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Online Eleanor

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #481 on: June 23, 2018, 10:50:37 AM »

Any dog can find a dead body if there is one.

Offline Brietta

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #482 on: June 23, 2018, 10:51:13 AM »
Eddie was still finding bodies after Jersey licence or not.

Sniffer dog Eddie and his handler Martin Grime, who were involved in the hunt for Madeleine McCann and in the Soham murders of Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells, were called in. And Eddie pinpointed the exact spot where Bob's body lay.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sanday-murder-trial-the-orkney-island-1052099

Snip
Bob's loved ones were left in agony for weeks before Crummack, fearing Campbell was about to stitch him up, led police to the sand dune grave.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sanday-murder-trial-the-orkney-island-1052099
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #483 on: June 23, 2018, 10:51:54 AM »
Any dog can find a dead body if there is one.

Any untrained dog can find a buried body? Cite.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #484 on: June 23, 2018, 10:54:09 AM »
Snip
Bob's loved ones were left in agony for weeks before Crummack, fearing Campbell was about to stitch him up, led police to the sand dune grave.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sanday-murder-trial-the-orkney-island-1052099

Morse was also there but Eddie found it.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 10:57:29 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #485 on: June 23, 2018, 11:10:13 AM »
Any untrained dog can find a buried body? Cite.

With respect PF ... dog walkers and their dogs find human remains on a regular basis ... there are numerous internet accounts.
I have anecdotal evidence of four such accounts in the relatively small area where I walk my dog.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #486 on: June 23, 2018, 11:30:03 AM »
They were trained daily - that's what they do to get the best results.

Did they really believe that a dog could smell the ‘odour of death’ three months later from a body?

« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 11:18:49 AM by John »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #487 on: June 23, 2018, 01:27:44 PM »
With respect PF ... dog walkers and their dogs find human remains on a regular basis ... there are numerous internet accounts.
I have anecdotal evidence of four such accounts in the relatively small area where I walk my dog.

Were these buried? Cite.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline John

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #488 on: June 23, 2018, 01:38:09 PM »
With respect PF ... dog walkers and their dogs find human remains on a regular basis ... there are numerous internet accounts.
I have anecdotal evidence of four such accounts in the relatively small area where I walk my dog.

It was a dog who found Joana Yeates body covered in frozen leaves and snow.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 02:05:48 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #489 on: June 23, 2018, 03:01:33 PM »
https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Operation%20Rectangle%20review%20of%20the%20efficient%20and%20effective%20use%20of%20resources%20201005%20BDO%20Alto.pdf

(Report to the Minister and Accounting
Officer, Home Affairs Department,
States of Jersey
Operation Rectangle
Review of the Efficient and Effective
Use of Resources
May 2010)
snipped
The fact is that Mr Grime was not, at the time he was deployed in
Jersey, an ACPO accredited police dog instructor, despite his
claims to be so in statements and other documents submitted
during his involvement in Operation Rectangle.
Furthermore, the
licence for his cadaver dog had expired some seven months prior
to his arrival on the Island and the licence for his human blood
detection dog expired in March 2008, whilst he was deployed in
Jersey and using that dog. According to the ACPO Police Dog
Working Group, “Dog and handler teams that, for whatever
reason, fail to remain in-licence [are] deemed “not competent” for
operational duty until such time as they [have] successfully
undergone a re-licensing process”. Mr Grime has advised that his
dogs are licensed by a suitably qualified person, although no
further details have been provided to us.

ƒ We are not qualified to comment with any authority on what effect,
if any, Mr Grime’s lack of ACPO accreditation and the fact that his
dogs’ licences had expired, made on operations at Haut de la
Garenne, and this is outside the scope of this Review in any event.
However, we understand that throughout his deployment he
worked alone and in this respect we refer to Chapter 21 of the
ACPO Police Dog Training and Care Manual. This chapter deals
with searches for human remains and at paragraph 17.5 it states,
inter alia, “…consideration should be given to employing an
experienced dog handler to act as observer to advise the handler
on any such indications being given”. We are not aware of any
evidence indicating that Mr Grime benefited from the assistance of
another experienced dog handler during his deployment at Haut de
la Garenne, as recommended by the manual.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 &%%6

Well found misty. 

So it seems

1.  Grime was not presenting the facts fully.  Eddie was not an ACPO accredited police dog instructor, but he presented that as fact, didn't he?  8)-)))

2.   Further more, he advised that his dogs were at the time licensed by a suitably qualified person, but he never provided any further details

3.   According to the ACPO Police Dog Working Group, “Dog and handler teams that, for whatever  reason, fail to remain in-licence [are] deemed “not competent” for
operational duty until such time as they [have] successfully
undergone a re-licensing process”. 
 
Was he still in license in Pdl ?  or should he have successfully taken a re-licensing process to ensure his team were competent?



What do posters think of all that? 


Online Eleanor

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #490 on: June 23, 2018, 03:58:01 PM »

Not to forget that it states that Martin Grime retired in July 2007.

Unless they got that bit wrong, of course.

Offline Brietta

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #491 on: June 23, 2018, 04:18:29 PM »
Were these buried? Cite.

There are thousands of examples;  from whole bodies to body parts;  from newly dead to historic bones;  to buried or exposed.

But the fact remains that dog walkers and their dogs are responsible for finding them.

Snip
Dog walker finds human remains in wooded area near Barrie, Ont.
http://www.nugget.ca/2016/03/17/dog-walker-finds-human-remains-in-wooded-area-near-barrie-ont

Human remains found by dogwalker on Liverpool's disused railway in Fazakerley
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/human-remains-found-dogwalker-liverpools-3344330

Man Walking Dog Finds Human Remains In Park
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/11/20/dog-finds-remains-in-park/

Dog walker finds human leg near Rochdale
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/21/dog-walker-finds-human-leg

Human remains in 'shallow grave' on Corstorphine Hill
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-22814041

Graham Dwyer trial: Dog walker describes finding remains
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/graham-dwyer-trial-dog-walker-describes-finding-remains-1.2081544

Foot found in walking boot identified in Cornwall
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-37913215

Dog Walker Finds Human Remains on Royal Estate
http://az.newser.com/story/136638/human-remains-discovered-on-royal-estate-in-norfolk-england.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline John

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #492 on: June 24, 2018, 11:10:14 AM »
I have reset the poll so please do take the opportunity to record your opinion.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Brietta

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #493 on: June 24, 2018, 01:45:49 PM »
I have reset the poll so please do take the opportunity to record your opinion.

It is a difficult one, John.
I doubt there is anyone who is unaware in general of the tremendous value of working dogs in every walk of life and recognises their excellence whatever they are trained to do.  The difficulty lies in the particular of Madeleine McCann's case compounded immediately thereafter with the Jersey fiasco.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #494 on: June 25, 2018, 10:11:50 PM »
April 2012

The Nose Knows

Can cadaver dogs really sniff out 30-year-old remains?

By Katy Waldman

Police on Thursday revived their search for Etan Patz, a 6-year-old who disappeared in 1979 en route to a New York City bus stop, after a cadaver-sniffing dog recently detected the odor of human remains in a basement near Patz’s SoHo home. Can dogs really smell 33-year-old remains?

Yes, if you have the right dog.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/04/etan_patz_search_renewed_can_cadaver_dogs_smell_30_year_old_corpses_.html?via=gdpr-consent

Feb. 14, 2017

Pedro Hernandez, a former bodega stock clerk who confessed to luring 6-year-old Etan Patz into a basement and attacking him, was found guilty on Tuesday of murder and kidnapping, a long-awaited step toward closure in a case that bedeviled investigators for decades and changed forever the way parents watched over their children.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/nyregion/etan-patz-pedro-hernandez-guilty.html
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.