McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights

[G-Unit]

It's an incidentalissue as they are entitled to the presumption of innocence... I don't see anywhere they regards it as proof of innocence

It's fundamental to their argument. The McCanns were always entitled to the presumption of innocence, but the lawyers are trying to demonstrate that the right was breached.

They managed to persuade the first judge that Amaral's freedom of expression was restricted by the rules governing his retirement from the PJ. The Appeal Court rejected that.

They then turned to the archiving dispatch and tried to argue that it was the same as an acquittal. The Supreme Court rejected that.

[Mr Gray]

It's fundamental to their argument. The McCanns were always entitled to the presumption of innocence, but the lawyers are trying to demonstrate that the right was breached.

They managed to persuade the first judge that Amaral's freedom of expression was restricted by the rules governing his retirement from the PJ. The Appeal Court rejected that.

They then turned to the archiving dispatch and tried to argue that it was the same as an acquittal. The Supreme Court rejected that.

They dont need an acquittal... They don't need to prove innocence... They are entitled  to the presumption  of innocence..... Amaral needs evidence to make his claims according to the ECHR past cases... He doesn't have, any evidence

[Sunny]

They dont need an acquittal... They don't need to prove innocence... They are entitled  to the presumption  of innocence..... Amaral needs evidence to make his claims according to the ECHR past cases... He doesn't have, any evidence

Goncalo Amaral doesn't need to do anything Davel. The ECHR case does not involve him, remember?

[Mr Gray]

Goncalo Amaral doesn't need to do anything Davel. The ECHR case does not involve him, remember?

It involves what he claims.... Remember.... So his claims must be supported by evidence

[G-Unit]

They dont need an acquittal... They don't need to prove innocence... They are entitled  to the presumption  of innocence..... Amaral needs evidence to make his claims according to the ECHR past cases... He doesn't have, any evidence

What a pity they didn't ask you before they went right ahead and used arguments that you say they didn't need. Lawyers, eh? 

[Alice Purjorick]

It involves what he claims.... Remember.... So his claims must be supported by evidence

It only involved that which was declared in the original writ issued on behalf of the McCanns.
If you recall the judge in the court of the first instance said that was about what was published and the effect it had not its veracity.

[Alice Purjorick]

The correct translation of res judicata is força de caso julgado which is the quality conferred to a judicial sentence against which there are no more appeals and cannot be changed and is indiscutable. This is the argument used by the McCanns that the archiving report had the "força de caso julgado" and which the Tribunal da Relação and the SC ruled against.

Events post July 2008 would make two of those events mutually exclusive had the archiving been res judicata.
Which would then beg the question "just what did OG hope to achieve?".

[Mr Gray]

It only involved that which was declared in the original writ issued on behalf of the McCanns.
If you recall the judge in the court of the first instance said that was about what was published and the effect it had not its veracity.

If it was, that there would be no ECHR case... The SC judgement was concerned with right to reputation as you will see if you read it.... The, application to annul was also Re, reputation and presumption of innocence.... Which suggests, they we Re planning the, application then

[Mr Gray]

It only involved that which was declared in the original writ issued on behalf of the McCanns.
If you recall the judge in the court of the first instance said that was about what was published and the effect it had not its veracity.

Have you seen the, writ... Does it mention damage to reputation

[Sunny]

If it was, that there would be no ECHR case... The SC judgement was concerned with right to reputation as you will see if you read it.... The, application to annul was also Re, reputation and presumption of innocence.... Which suggests, they we Re planning the, application then

Do we know if there is an "ECHR case", davel?   We know that they intended to make an appeal to the ECHR but not what has happened regarding it IMO.

[Snowgirl]

Do we know if there is an "ECHR case", davel?   We know that they intended to make an appeal to the ECHR but not what has happened regarding it IMO.

Didn't you know Davel knows it has ? He saw a clue iirc. 

[Mr Gray]

Do we know if there is an "ECHR case", davel?   We know that they intended to make an appeal to the ECHR but not what has happened regarding it IMO.

I would say there is enough evidence  to show there is a case..particularly the referral to the case in the accounts... And ooking at the evidence I can see no reason why it would be rejected... Can you

[Eleanor]

Any Goading Comments will be removed In Full.

[Alice Purjorick]

If it was, that there would be no ECHR case... The SC judgement was concerned with right to reputation as you will see if you read it.... The, application to annul was also Re, reputation and presumption of innocence.... Which suggests, they we Re planning the, application then

1)Thus far we do not know if there is a case.
All we know is that it is said that an application has been made to the ECtHR.
2)Which was rejected by the Supreme Court as not being relevant to point being tried.
3) So they were expecting the appeal to the SC to be booted out in your opinion then?

[Mr Gray]

1)Thus far we do not know if there is a case.
All we know is that it is said that an application has been made to the ECtHR.
2)Which was rejected by the Supreme Court as not being relevant to point being tried.
3) So they were expecting the appeal to the SC to be booted out in your opinion then?

I don't see it that way at, all... The SC never said damage to reputation was not relavent...