McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights

[Mr Gray]

His factual basis was the investigation up to 10th September 2007.

So the claim Eddie discovered a dead body under a flagstone in Jersey is a fact and part of the investigation

[Eleanor]

Same reason that other countries have them, so as not to clog up the higher court with trivia.

This doesn't seem to be working.  It's The Portuguese Judiciary that so often Appeal and get the decisions overturned, when in fact this should be the means to protect against a Miscarriage of Justice.

[kizzy]

Perhaps you still don't realise but the facts Amaral relied on have been discredited and it doesn't represent the facts of the investigation at the time the book was published

Well seems the SC didn't agree with that

What you should realise. - is the book is still there to buy.

[Eleanor]

What about the lack of factual basis for amarals book

Nope.  We don't want to talk about that.

[G-Unit]

Perhaps you still don't realise but the facts Amaral relied on have been discredited and it doesn't represent the facts of the investigation at the time the book was published

Amaral restricted himself to the facts of the investigation from 3rd May 2007 to 10th September 2007. Which facts were discredited between 10th September 2007 and 21st July 2008?

[Venturi Swirl]

Beats me;

13. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio
       da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability,   
       preoccupation and indefinable fear?

       Proved.

      The judge adds that this psychological state is predates the book launch, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by them.

Nonetheless, it is not unreasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had an effect on the
       couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is to be expected.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5931.msg213863#msg213863

Salient bit bolded above.  Only a very UNreasonable person would come to the conclusion that the book, documentary etc did not have an effect on the couple, an effect that could only have been negative.

[Eleanor]

This book was written before Amaral Retired.  He asked The PJ for permission to publish it and they refused.

Make what you can of that.

[Mr Gray]

Amaral restricted himself to the facts of the investigation from 3rd May 2007 to 10th September 2007. Which facts were discredited between 10th September 2007 and 21st July 2008?

The validity of the dog alerts. Amaral failed to mention they had no evidential value even though the pj files confirmed btjis

[G-Unit]

Salient bit bolded above.  Only a very UNreasonable person would come to the conclusion that the book, documentary etc did not have an effect on the couple, an effect that could only have been negative.

Amaral seemed to saying in his appeal his actions didn't cause the problems, so perhaps the important point was;

12. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio
       da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are completely destroyed, from a moral, social, ethical, sentimental, family
       point of view, much beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them?

       Not proved.

[Eleanor]

Amaral seemed to saying in his appeal his actions didn't cause the problems, so perhaps the important point was;

12. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio
       da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are completely destroyed, from a moral, social, ethical, sentimental, family
       point of view, much beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them?

       Not proved.

One would have to be thick not to realise that this is true.

[Mr Gray]

Amaral seemed to saying in his appeal his actions didn't cause the problems, so perhaps the important point was;

12. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio
       da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are completely destroyed, from a moral, social, ethical, sentimental, family
       point of view, much beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them?

       Not proved.

None of this relates to the ECHR case

[Venturi Swirl]

Amaral seemed to saying in his appeal his actions didn't cause the problems, so perhaps the important point was;

12. Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio
       da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are completely destroyed, from a moral, social, ethical, sentimental, family
       point of view, much beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them?

       Not proved.

How would one go about proving that though, seriously?  If it is accepted that libel can cause harm or increase suffering but only with proof then what are the standards of proof require by the court?  How for example would the McCanns prove that the book specifically increased their suffering from a moral point of view?  I guess they should have really laid it on thick, had nervous breakdowns in the court, put on a real show if suffering, maybe that would have done as "proof".  But in reality, it's a no brainer.  Of course a best selling book promoted by the media that describes you as body occulters of you own daughter's body is going to cause anyone to be upset, and cause harm to their family and social relationships.  How could it not?

[Mr Gray]

Amaral restricted himself to the facts of the investigation from 3rd May 2007 to 10th September 2007. Which facts were discredited between 10th September 2007 and 21st July 2008?

This is from the documentary..

 dogs’ investigation continues. They inspect several vehicles, and they only alert to the car that was hired by the McCanns 23 days after Madeleine’s disappearance. Eddie alerts that the car key and the boot had been in contact with a dead body.

27.01 – Keela discovers organic traces for analysis in the boot.

27.23 – The dogs’ reaction is revealing. These dogs have never failed in over 200 cases. The dogs marked two spots in the house: The wardrobe in the parents’ bedroom, and behind the living room sofa.



Is that a fair description of the dogs and their findings. Then we have as I understand... The Portuguese courts would not allow the McCanns to question the value of the alerts

[kizzy]

This is from the documentary..

 dogs’ investigation continues. They inspect several vehicles, and they only alert to the car that was hired by the McCanns 23 days after Madeleine’s disappearance. Eddie alerts that the car key and the boot had been in contact with a dead body.

27.01 – Keela discovers organic traces for analysis in the boot.

27.23 – The dogs’ reaction is revealing. These dogs have never failed in over 200 cases. The dogs marked two spots in the house: The wardrobe in the parents’ bedroom, and behind the living room sofa.



Is that a fair description of the dogs and their findings. Then we have as I understand... The Portuguese courts would not allow the McCanns to question the value of the alerts

The alerts were deemed inconclusive ....that is not the same as deemed useless or no value.

Sometimes, the result might be “inconclusive.” That means the lab doesn't have a clear yes or no answer based on your sample
.

[Mr Gray]

The alerts were deemed inconclusive ....that is not the same as deemed useless or no value.

Sometimes, the result might be “inconclusive.” That means the lab doesn't have a clear yes or no answer based on your sample
.

The alerts were not deemed inconclusive.. That was the dna