McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights

[Mr Gray]

Laudable really how a news article with out any real or verifiable veracity can bring out such sentences as the ECHR will do this and that when the case being talked about is still at a stage of not even being decided it it's admissible yet.

A little like Amaral and others finding the McCanns guilty when they've never even been arrested

[Mr Gray]

Laudable really how a news article with out any real or verifiable veracity can bring out such sentences as the ECHR will do this and that when the case being talked about is still at a stage of not even being decided it it's admissible yet.

Perhaps you or any other sceptic could tell us on what grounds you think the action will be inadmissible

[G-Unit]

If you can’t understand why they were upset  by the book then there really is no hope of you understanding why anyone has any emotional reaction to anything imo.  This is where a lack of empathy gets you.

What Amaral wrote about wasn't new to them; they lived through it in September 2007. They knew what the PJ thought and why. What I don't understand is why it seemed to upset them more to read about it than it did to live through it.

When asked about being made arguida Kate doesn't answer;

The judge rephrases – What disturbed you more: the disappearance of your daughter, the fact you were made arguido or the reason for this trial, i.e the book and the documentary?
Kate Healy (McCann)  There is nothing worse than loosing a child, and that pain was amplified by both the book and the documentary.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4745.msg172158#msg172158

When asked the same question, Gerry doesn't answer either;

The judge rephrases – What disturbed you more: the disappearance of your daughter, the fact you were made arguido or the reason for this trial, i.e the book and the documentary?

GMC  They all happened at different times, the abduction of a child is devastating but the book intensified that feeling.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4746.msg172168#msg172168

Alan Pike's evidence was interesting;

GP – Do you know if the fact of being made an arguido was related to the suspicion of some crime?
AP says he knows some facts, they weren't surprised.

GP – What is the difference with the book?
AP doesn't understand.

GP repeats her question.
AP – They were surprised with the book because the final Report said they were innocent.

GP – Have you read the final report?
AP says "no".

GP – How do you know then what its conclusions are?
AP says the McCanns told him.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2304.msg75521#msg75521

Perhaps they'd forgotten how traumatic it was when they were informed they were going to be made arguidos;

Gerry was distraught now. He was on his knees, sobbing, his head hung low. ‘We’re finished. Our life is over,’ he kept saying over and over again...

Gerry and I made it very clear to Trisha and Eileen that if we didn’t return from the police station the next day, they should take the children out of the country as soon as possible...

Gerry and I just looked at each other, not knowing quite what to do or what was to become of us. We’d experienced many periods of despair since our beloved daughter had been taken away, but this one would take some beating. Our lives, our family, our whole future hung in the balance.
[madeleine]

Were Amaral's book, DVD and interview really more upsetting and traumatic than that? 

[Mr Gray]

What Amaral wrote about wasn't new to them; they lived through it in September 2007. They knew what the PJ thought and why. What I don't understand is why it seemed to upset them more to read about it than it did to live through it.

When asked about being made arguida Kate doesn't answer;

The judge rephrases – What disturbed you more: the disappearance of your daughter, the fact you were made arguido or the reason for this trial, i.e the book and the documentary?
Kate Healy (McCann)  There is nothing worse than loosing a child, and that pain was amplified by both the book and the documentary.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4745.msg172158#msg172158

When asked the same question, Gerry doesn't answer either;

The judge rephrases – What disturbed you more: the disappearance of your daughter, the fact you were made arguido or the reason for this trial, i.e the book and the documentary?

GMC  They all happened at different times, the abduction of a child is devastating but the book intensified that feeling.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4746.msg172168#msg172168

Alan Pike's evidence was interesting;

GP – Do you know if the fact of being made an arguido was related to the suspicion of some crime?
AP says he knows some facts, they weren't surprised.

GP – What is the difference with the book?
AP doesn't understand.

GP repeats her question.
AP – They were surprised with the book because the final Report said they were innocent.

GP – Have you read the final report?
AP says "no".

GP – How do you know then what its conclusions are?
AP says the McCanns told him.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2304.msg75521#msg75521

Perhaps they'd forgotten how traumatic it was when they were informed they were going to be made arguidos;

Gerry was distraught now. He was on his knees, sobbing, his head hung low. ‘We’re finished. Our life is over,’ he kept saying over and over again...

Gerry and I made it very clear to Trisha and Eileen that if we didn’t return from the police station the next day, they should take the children out of the country as soon as possible...

Gerry and I just looked at each other, not knowing quite what to do or what was to become of us. We’d experienced many periods of despair since our beloved daughter had been taken away, but this one would take some beating. Our lives, our family, our whole future hung in the balance.
[madeleine]

Were Amaral's book, DVD and interview really more upsetting and traumatic than that? 

You can't deem to understand that Amaral added to their problems and they have every right and reason to sue him for defamation. As the Portuguese judicial system hasn't found in their favour they have every right and reason to take their case to the ECHR.

[Venturi Swirl]

What Amaral wrote about wasn't new to them; they lived through it in September 2007. They knew what the PJ thought and why. What I don't understand is why it seemed to upset them more to read about it than it did to live through it.

When asked about being made arguida Kate doesn't answer;

The judge rephrases – What disturbed you more: the disappearance of your daughter, the fact you were made arguido or the reason for this trial, i.e the book and the documentary?
Kate Healy (McCann)  There is nothing worse than loosing a child, and that pain was amplified by both the book and the documentary.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4745.msg172158#msg172158

When asked the same question, Gerry doesn't answer either;

The judge rephrases – What disturbed you more: the disappearance of your daughter, the fact you were made arguido or the reason for this trial, i.e the book and the documentary?

GMC  They all happened at different times, the abduction of a child is devastating but the book intensified that feeling.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4746.msg172168#msg172168

Alan Pike's evidence was interesting;

GP – Do you know if the fact of being made an arguido was related to the suspicion of some crime?
AP says he knows some facts, they weren't surprised.

GP – What is the difference with the book?
AP doesn't understand.

GP repeats her question.
AP – They were surprised with the book because the final Report said they were innocent.

GP – Have you read the final report?
AP says "no".

GP – How do you know then what its conclusions are?
AP says the McCanns told him.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2304.msg75521#msg75521

Perhaps they'd forgotten how traumatic it was when they were informed they were going to be made arguidos;

Gerry was distraught now. He was on his knees, sobbing, his head hung low. ‘We’re finished. Our life is over,’ he kept saying over and over again...

Gerry and I made it very clear to Trisha and Eileen that if we didn’t return from the police station the next day, they should take the children out of the country as soon as possible...

Gerry and I just looked at each other, not knowing quite what to do or what was to become of us. We’d experienced many periods of despair since our beloved daughter had been taken away, but this one would take some beating. Our lives, our family, our whole future hung in the balance.
[madeleine]

Were Amaral's book, DVD and interview really more upsetting and traumatic than that? 

Who said "more upsetting"?  Didn't Amaral's book get released the day after the case was archived, and in which the final report ~(written after months and months of investigative work) stated that there was a lack of evidence of the arguidos having committed any crime?   Can you not see how this would be perceived by the targets of the book, and how upsetting this would be?  No, of course you can't.  and as a mod I really think you should leave off the goading emoticons, anyone would think you were Angelo.

[Venturi Swirl]

I reckon there would be more empathy for Christian Bruckner if, after HCW were sacked from the investigation the ex-prosecutor then wrote a best selling book outlining his theory of Bruckner's involvement which was then published after the case was closed and no charges brought against the suspect.  I expect his apologists here would have no trouble at all empathising with the upset and distress such a book might cause him and fully support any legal action he might bring against HCW. 

[Mr Gray]

Who said "more upsetting"?  Didn't Amaral's book get released the day after the case was archived, and in which the final report ~(written after months and months of investigative work) stated that there was a lack of evidence of the arguidos having committed any crime?   Can you not see how this would be perceived by the targets of the book, and how upsetting this would be?  No, of course you can't.  and as a mod I really think you should leave off the goading emoticons, anyone would think you were Angelo.

I think gunit is actually a bit worried that the McCanns might actually win this case in Europe and the disgraceful behaviour of the Portuguese police and judiciary will be exposed

[Eleanor]

I reckon there would be more empathy for Christian Bruckner if, after HCW were sacked from the investigation the ex-prosecutor then wrote a best selling book outlining his theory of Bruckner's involvement which was then published after the case was closed and no charges brought against the suspect.  I expect his apologists here would have no trouble at all empathising with the upset and distress such a book might cause him and fully support any legal action he might bring against HCW.

You'd better believe it.

[Mr Gray]

I reckon there would be more empathy for Christian Bruckner if, after HCW were sacked from the investigation the ex-prosecutor then wrote a best selling book outlining his theory of Bruckner's involvement which was then published after the case was closed and no charges brought against the suspect.  I expect his apologists here would have no trouble at all empathising with the upset and distress such a book might cause him and fully support any legal action he might bring against HCW.

Sceptics have already shown they would support any legal action by CB for defamation. I would support his rights..

[Venturi Swirl]

What Amaral wrote about wasn't new to them; they lived through it in September 2007. They knew what the PJ thought and why. What I don't understand is why it seemed to upset them more to read about it than it did to live through it.

When asked about being made arguida Kate doesn't answer;

The judge rephrases – What disturbed you more: the disappearance of your daughter, the fact you were made arguido or the reason for this trial, i.e the book and the documentary?
Kate Healy (McCann)  There is nothing worse than loosing a child, and that pain was amplified by both the book and the documentary.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4745.msg172158#msg172158

When asked the same question, Gerry doesn't answer either;

The judge rephrases – What disturbed you more: the disappearance of your daughter, the fact you were made arguido or the reason for this trial, i.e the book and the documentary?

GMC  They all happened at different times, the abduction of a child is devastating but the book intensified that feeling.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4746.msg172168#msg172168

Alan Pike's evidence was interesting;

GP – Do you know if the fact of being made an arguido was related to the suspicion of some crime?
AP says he knows some facts, they weren't surprised.

GP – What is the difference with the book?
AP doesn't understand.

GP repeats her question.
AP – They were surprised with the book because the final Report said they were innocent.

GP – Have you read the final report?
AP says "no".

GP – How do you know then what its conclusions are?
AP says the McCanns told him.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2304.msg75521#msg75521

Perhaps they'd forgotten how traumatic it was when they were informed they were going to be made arguidos;

Gerry was distraught now. He was on his knees, sobbing, his head hung low. ‘We’re finished. Our life is over,’ he kept saying over and over again...

Gerry and I made it very clear to Trisha and Eileen that if we didn’t return from the police station the next day, they should take the children out of the country as soon as possible...

Gerry and I just looked at each other, not knowing quite what to do or what was to become of us. We’d experienced many periods of despair since our beloved daughter had been taken away, but this one would take some beating. Our lives, our family, our whole future hung in the balance.
[madeleine]

Were Amaral's book, DVD and interview really more upsetting and traumatic than that? 

Just to be absolutely clear - are you saying you cannot understand why the McCanns would find Amaral's book in any way distressing, hurtful or upsetting?   That, in a similar circumstance you would be totally indifferent to a best selling book written about you that accused you of a serious crime that you hadn't committed, and which the police investigating the crime had concluded there was no evidence against you?

[Eleanor]

I think gunit is actually a bit worried that the McCanns might actually win this case in Europe and the disgraceful behaviour of the Portuguese police and judiciary will be exposed

I think it has already been exposed, so someone is fighting a losing battle.

[Venturi Swirl]

Sceptics have already shown they would support any legal action by CB for defamation. I would support his rights..

Weird how they would support a convicted rapist and paedophile but not the parents of a missing child.    Personally I could completely understand CB's grievance if he genuinely had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance but even then I wouldn't lend him my support.  I don't understand why sceptics whilst not wishing to lend the McCanns any support also are completely unable to see things from their point of view.  I find it very odd.

[G-Unit]

Weird how they would support a convicted rapist and paedophile but not the parents of a missing child.    Personally I could completely understand CB's grievance if he genuinely had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance but even then I wouldn't lend him my support.  I don't understand why sceptics whilst not wishing to lend the McCanns any support also are completely unable to see things from their point of view.  I find it very odd.

I'm quite sure the McCanns were upset by the book. They thought the final report said they were innocent, then a book which suggests they weren't becomes a best seller in Portugal and sells well in other countries too. The nightmare wasn't over, it was continuing.

I wonder how upsetting it was when the Supreme Court judges disclosed that the final report didn't say they were innocent.

[Mr Gray]

I'm quite sure the McCanns were upset by the book. They thought the final report said they were innocent, then a book which suggests they weren't becomes a best seller in Portugal and sells well in other countries too. The nightmare wasn't over, it was continuing.

I wonder how upsetting it was when the Supreme Court judges disclosed that the final report didn't say they were innocent.

The final report said there was no evidence against them so it must have come as a shock that a book was written by an ex policeman accusing them of guilt.... When they had the right to be considered innocent. So in effect... The SC which had the duty to consider them innocent supported a book which considered them guilty

[Eleanor]

I'm quite sure the McCanns were upset by the book. They thought the final report said they were innocent, then a book which suggests they weren't becomes a best seller in Portugal and sells well in other countries too. The nightmare wasn't over, it was continuing.

I wonder how upsetting it was when the Supreme Court judges disclosed that the final report didn't say they were innocent.

We are still back to the same old same old.  The McCanns do not have to prove their Innocence and in fact have never even been arrested.

I am reluctant to comment on The ECHR, but it is looking good for The McCanns.