McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights

[G-Unit]

Can you show where the Mccanns sued Amaral for libel...thats the important point.
if they had sued him for libel the facts would have been examined and the dog alerts discredited. they sued for damages based on his Duty of Reserve.....thats why the judge said the facts were not important.  ive expalined it all a couple of days ago. I dont see any poster here or elsewhere understanding this point. You yourself said afew days ago it was  a libel trial.

do yyou understand now how amaral got away with libel...i dont think you do

Read Kate McCann's book. Isabel Duarte was, she says, a libel lawyer. After obtaining an injunction, she says, the next step was to sue Amaral 'for libel'; 'a libel case against Amaral is pending'. She seems to have misunderstood what they were doing.

[G-Unit]

Please try not to think that we are all unable to understand.  Although I agree that Gunit isn't able.  Or probably doesn't want to, which might be more to the point.

I understand Mr Gray's arguments Eleanor, but I certainly don't agree with them.

[Mr Gray]

I understand Mr Gray's arguments Eleanor, but I certainly don't agree with them.

You have claimed a civil case cannot rely on facts collected in a criminal case....thats wrong and Ive proved it. Dont even think you understand.

Youve referred to it as a libel trial...more junk. in  a Libel trial the facts of the case would have been disputed. The trial was brought on the basis Amaral had broken his Duty of Reserve. As the facts were no challenged they becone established. Any appeal can only look at points of law or new evidence...they cannot go back and dispute the evidence unless new evidence comes to light

[G-Unit]

You have claimed a civil case cannot rely on facts collected in a criminal case....thats wrong and Ive proved it. Dont even think you understand.

Youve referred to it as a libel trial...more junk. in  a Libel trial the facts of the case would have been disputed. The trial was brought on the basis Amaral had broken his Duty of Reserve. As the facts were no challenged they becone established. Any appeal can only look at points of law or new evidence...they cannot go back and dispute the evidence unless new evidence comes to light

I think I have said a civil trial can't judge the facts collected in a criminal investigation; not in Portugal, anyway. Your  'proof' involves an American case using facts established in a criminal trial, so a very different thing.

Who misled the allegedly intelligent Kate McCann who thought they sued Amaral for libel then?

Fancy you not knowing what the first judgement included! Or were you just lying when you said the first judgement's list of proven facts did not contain the statement of facts re the dogs?

[Mr Gray]

I think I have said a civil trial can't judge the facts collected in a criminal investigation; not in Portugal, anyway. Your  'proof' involves an American case using facts established in a criminal trial, so a very different thing.

Who misled the allegedly intelligent Kate McCann who thought they sued Amaral for libel then?

Fancy you not knowing what the first judgement included! Or were you just lying when you said the first judgement's list of proven facts did not contain the statement of facts re the dogs?

The proof is the fact that the dog alerts were included in the civil trial and judged to be proven facts..that's evidence from a criminal investigation used in a civil trial in Portugal.
The proven facts in the initial trial in Jan 2015 do not reference the alerts.
The only lie is you claiming you understand..you're all over the place with contradictions

It's quite possible Kate misunderstood

[Venturi Swirl]

If the veracity of Amaral’s claims were never tested in court then obviously it wasn’t a libel trial IMO.

[G-Unit]

The proof is the fact that the dog alerts were included in the civil trial and judged to be proven facts..that's evidence from a criminal investigation used in a civil trial in Portugal.
The proven facts in the initial trial in Jan 2015 do not reference the alerts.
The only lie is you claiming you understand..you're all over the place with contradictions

It's quite possible Kate misunderstood

You think you can continue to tell lies, when the truth is written down for all to see?

PROVED FACTS

Taking into account the matter considered undisputed in the selection of facts and the decision handed down in due course after producing the matter of evidence and discussing the case, the following facts are demonstrated :

1.  The claimants KM and GM are married to each other

 2.  The claimant Madeleine Beth McCann was born on the 12.05.2003 and is the daughter of the claimants Kate and Gerry McCann

 3.  The claimant Sean McCann was born on the 01.02.2005 and is the son of the claimants Kate and Gerry McCann

 4.  The claimant Amelie McCann was born on the 01.02.2005 and is the daughter of the claimants Kate and Gerry McCann

 5.  The claimant Madeleine Beth McCann has been missing since the 3rd of May of 2007, and the criminal investigation n. 201/07.0GALGS was open by the Public Prosecutor of the Republic for the Portimao District.

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0

Seems like they misunderstood too; or just believed what the McCanns told them....

Lawyers for Kate and Gerry McCann argued that the Portuguese authorities had breached their right to respect for a private and family life in the way the courts there dealt with their libel claims against Goncalo Amaral.
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccanns-parents-lose-case-against-portuguese-ex-detective-goncalo-amaral-12701770

Kate and Gerry McCann appealed to the European Court of Human Rights over a Portuguese decision in their libel challenge over Goncalo Amaral's claims.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62967119

Kate and Gerry McCann lost latest round of legal battle with Goncalo Amaral
 Pair had sued Portuguese ex-cop for libel after he published a book suggesting they were involved in the disappearance of daughter Madeleine in 2007
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11230233/European-Court-Human-Rights-rules-against-parents-Madeleine-McCann-case-against-Portugal.html

[Venturi Swirl]

It's odd isn't it?  For years, prominent sceptics on the internet were adamant that the media reporting was wrong and that this was not a libel trial.  Now it seems important to them that it was a libel trial.  Bizarre. 

[Eleanor]

It's odd isn't it?  For years, prominent sceptics on the internet were adamant that the media reporting was wrong and that this was not a libel trial.  Now it seems important to them that it was a libel trial.  Bizarre. 

Whatever suits them at the time it seems.  They do this a lot.

[G-Unit]

It's odd isn't it?  For years, prominent sceptics on the internet were adamant that the media reporting was wrong and that this was not a libel trial.  Now it seems important to them that it was a libel trial.  Bizarre. 

Can the McCanns and the media be wrong? Who'd of thunk it....

[Venturi Swirl]

Can the McCanns and the media be wrong? Who'd of thunk it....

Does that mean you're saying it wasn't a libel trial?  Yet you seem to be arguing that it was.   

[barrier]

ID opening statement , so what is the argument ? in what way would it effect the family ?

In this trial we're discussing the effects on the McCann family of the publication of GA's book and the documentary inspired by this book.


https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2240.0


Topic: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1

[Mr Gray]

You think you can continue to tell lies, when the truth is written down for all to see?

PROVED FACTS

Taking into account the matter considered undisputed in the selection of facts and the decision handed down in due course after producing the matter of evidence and discussing the case, the following facts are demonstrated :

1.  The claimants KM and GM are married to each other

 2.  The claimant Madeleine Beth McCann was born on the 12.05.2003 and is the daughter of the claimants Kate and Gerry McCann

 3.  The claimant Sean McCann was born on the 01.02.2005 and is the son of the claimants Kate and Gerry McCann

 4.  The claimant Amelie McCann was born on the 01.02.2005 and is the daughter of the claimants Kate and Gerry McCann

 5.  The claimant Madeleine Beth McCann has been missing since the 3rd of May of 2007, and the criminal investigation n. 201/07.0GALGS was open by the Public Prosecutor of the Republic for the Portimao District.

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0

Seems like they misunderstood too; or just believed what the McCanns told them....

Lawyers for Kate and Gerry McCann argued that the Portuguese authorities had breached their right to respect for a private and family life in the way the courts there dealt with their libel claims against Goncalo Amaral.
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccanns-parents-lose-case-against-portuguese-ex-detective-goncalo-amaral-12701770

Kate and Gerry McCann appealed to the European Court of Human Rights over a Portuguese decision in their libel challenge over Goncalo Amaral's claims.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62967119

Kate and Gerry McCann lost latest round of legal battle with Goncalo Amaral
 Pair had sued Portuguese ex-cop for libel after he published a book suggesting they were involved in the disappearance of daughter Madeleine in 2007
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11230233/European-Court-Human-Rights-rules-against-parents-Madeleine-McCann-case-against-Portugal.html

Is it now acceptable to refer to a poster as  a liar....I will reply fully later when john has clarified things.

[G-Unit]

Is it now acceptable to refer to a poster as  a liar....I will reply fully later when john has clarified things.

Only if they lie, I would think;

the first judgements list of proven facts did not contain the statement of facts re the dogs
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8465.msg701492#msg701492

From the 1st judgement.Proven facts.

https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].

[Venturi Swirl]

ID opening statement , so what is the argument ? in what way would it effect the family ?

In this trial we're discussing the effects on the McCann family of the publication of GA's book and the documentary inspired by this book.


https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2240.0


Topic: McCann v Gonçalo Amaral Libel Trial in Lisbon - Day 1/

Yes, that's what John called it in the Thread Title - is he the last word on the subject then?