Author Topic: Would the libel case had a different result if pecuniary damages weren't sought?  (Read 21162 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

I think you do. You keep posting stuff about cases where bloggers post defamatory statements. Not people involved.

There are several others... Defamation is, defamation... Can you quote any ECHR cases, where defamation has been allowed where there is no evidence to support it

Offline Mr Gray

You have nothing. Do you have proof or evidence that a case has been lodged by the McCanns ? A simple yes or no will do.

A simple yes or no you ask for... I have replied yes several times... Have a look at the posts... There is certainly evidence the case had been lodged that I'm sure you are aware of... I've never claimed proof... Which is what a Cade number would be

Offline Angelo222

If you read the ECHR judgements you will see that the onus is on the defamer to show it is true...what is in question is does amaral ahve the right to accuse the mccanns of the crimes he has....looking at other judgements it would appear he hasnt

I think it is you who need to do a bit of reading.  Amaral set out a theory based on the evidence available to the police, he has carefully avoided making accusations.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Mr Gray

I think it is you who need to do a bit of reading.  Amaral set out a theory based on the evidence available to the police, he has carefully avoided making accusations.

I dont think youve read the book or watched the documentary...amaral was not careful...he made accusations...none of the evidence he relied upon was confirmed..as evidenced by the archiving enquiry...so his ACUSATIONS are NOT supported by evidence

Offline Mr Gray

I think it is you who need to do a bit of reading.  Amaral set out a theory based on the evidence available to the police, he has carefully avoided making accusations.

00.33 - My name is Gonçalo Amaral. I’ve been an investigator with the Polícia Judiciária for 27 years. I coordinated the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, on the 3rd of May 2007.

00.48 - During the following 50 minutes, I will prove that the child was not abducted, and that she died in the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.

00.58 - Discover the whole truth about what happened that day – a death that many people want to cover up.


47.24 – It is behind the sofa, in front of the middle section of the window, that cadaver odour and human blood with Madeleine McCann’s profile is traced. It’s the only place inside the apartment where the findings coincide: human cadaver odour and blood. So, within a policeman’s logic, this is where death may have taken place.

Offline Carana

125. In Egill Einarsson v. Iceland, a well-known figure in Iceland had been the subject of an offensive
comment on Instagram, an online picture-sharing application, in which he had been called a “rapist”
alongside a photograph. The Court held that a comment of this kind was capable of constituting
interference with the applicant’s private life in so far as it had attained a certain level of seriousness
(§ 52). It pointed out that Article 8 was to be interpreted to mean that even where they had
prompted heated debate on account of their behaviour and public comments, public figures should
not have to tolerate being publicly accused of violent criminal acts without such statements being
supported by facts
(§ 52).




from everything I have read accusations not supported by evidence contravene article 8...the archiving report said no evidence of any crime by the McCanns

I saw that, Davel.

However, there's an issue. What are the facts? Whatever happens to be recorded in the police files? Apparently so, in the McCann case as that's what the judges drew upon, when  they existed, while also saying that it wasn't within the remit to test whether such "facts" were true or not.


« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 03:24:51 PM by Carana »

Offline Mr Gray

I saw that, Davel.

However, there's an issue. What are the facts? Whatever happens to be recorded in the police files? Apparently so, in the McCann case as that's what the judges drew upon, when  they existed, while also saying that it wasn't within the remit to test whether such "facts" were true or not.

From what I have read it should have been. Thee re also points in the book and doc that are not in the files...and then we have the archiving report stating no evidence of any crime by the mcCanns...taht is also a fact in the files.
again...from what I have read amaral could be criticised for not applying any balance in his statements

You will also remember Gerry was prevented from contesting the facts...in all the cases Ihave sen the ECHR are interested in the validity of the facts
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 04:40:27 PM by Davel »

Offline slartibartfast

From what I have read it should have been. Thee re also points in the book and doc that are not in the files...and then we have the archiving report stating no evidence of any crime by the mcCanns...taht is also a fact in the files.
again...from what I have read amaral could be criticised for not applying any balance in his statements

You will also remember Gerry was prevented from contesting the facts...in all the cases Ihave sen the ECHR are interested in the validity of the facts

Quote
The lawsuit states: "Madeleine has been deprived of the possibility of a fair and adequate investigation into her disappearance, putting her moral and physical integrity at serious risk."

It says Gerry and Kate have been "totally destroyed from a moral, social, ethical, emotional and family point of view, beyond the pain that the absence of their eldest daughter causes them".

Those are the facts that the McCanns should have been concerned with and IMO they failed badly.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Those are the facts that the McCanns should have been concerned with and IMO they failed badly.

you have your opinion but thats all it is...an opinion...its my opinion that the SC failed in ther judgement...as they have done before
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 05:38:56 PM by Davel »

Offline slartibartfast

you have your opinion but thats all it is...an opinion...its my opinion that the SC failed in ther judgement...as they have done before

If you serve a writ upon someone then it is up to you to prove that the claim in the writ are true. As far as I can see the writ doesn’t mention the accuracy of the book.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

If you serve a writ upon someone then it is up to you to prove that the claim in the writ are true. As far as I can see the writ doesn’t mention the accuracy of the book.

then lets see the writ.....

what we know for certain is the SC judgement was concerned with the balance of the respective rights of the mccanns and amaral...and basically nothing else. it would therefore make sense that is what the action will deal with
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 06:47:51 PM by Robittybob1 »

Offline faithlilly

then lets see the writ.....

what we know for certain is the SC judgement was concerned with the balance of the respective rights of the mccanns and amaral...and basically nothing else. it would therefore make sense that is what the action will deal with

Case number or any related paperwork Davel ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Petrenco v. the Republic of Moldova
30 March 2010
At the time of the events, the applicant was the Chairman of the Association of
Historians of the Republic of Moldova and a university professor. He complained that his
reputation was damaged as a result of the publication, in April 2002, of statements in
the official newspaper of the Moldovan Government, implying that he had collaborated
with the KGB.
The Court held that there had been a violation of Article 8 (right to respect for private
life) of the Convention, finding that the reasons advanced by the Moldovan tribunals to
protect the right to freedom of expression of the newspaper and the author of the
impugned article were insufficient to outweigh the applicant's right to respect for his
reputation. The Court observed in particular that the article had been published in the
context of a lively debate of significant public interest and that the applicant, who was a
public figure, had had to tolerate higher public scrutiny and criticism than had he been a
private citizen. Therefore the general tone of the article and the insulting language had
not in themselves breached the applicant’s right to respect for his reputation. However,
by implying that the applicant had collaborated with the KGB as though it had been an
established fact when it had been a mere speculation on the part of the author
, the
article had overstepped the limits of acceptable comments in the context of a debate of a
general interest.



amaral has treated death in the apartment as an established fact when it is only speculation IMO
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 08:04:00 PM by slartibartfast »

Offline Gertrude

its defamation pure and simple IMO....I have posted other cases...

  Defamation is "the action of damaging the good reputation of someone; slander or libel.'

The McCanns themselves courted the press and made it known publicly they went out leaving 3 small children alone at night, they damaged their own characters.

Defamation can also be described and 'muckracking' or 'malicious gossip'.   Amaral's book was based on an official investigation that he and his superiors were involved in - so it cannot in any way be defined as 'gossip' of any kind. This is not the same as a private citizen basing accusations on their own opinion.

   How you can think the Supreme court failed to understand these facts is beyond me.

Offline Mr Gray

  Defamation is "the action of damaging the good reputation of someone; slander or libel.'

The McCanns themselves courted the press and made it known publicly they went out leaving 3 small children alone at night, they damaged their own characters.

Defamation can also be described and 'muckracking' or 'malicious gossip'.   Amaral's book was based on an official investigation that he and his superiors were involved in - so it cannot in any way be defined as 'gossip' of any kind. This is not the same as a private citizen basing accusations on their own opinion.

   How you can think the Supreme court failed to understand these facts is beyond me.

I disagree and have posted cases ti support my view