Author Topic: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.  (Read 166175 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #180 on: January 22, 2019, 01:33:45 PM »
I'm not aware of the nature of the association between Marshall and any of those involved in the Rettendon case, or even if there was any. 

Holly, the point you make about cctv is an interesting one.  How prevelent was cctv, back in the mid nineties?  If for instance, cameras were installed at the Dartford crossing, how long would the tapes have been kept for?

According to the following article John Marshall was a former business partner to Tate:

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5529696.little-burstead-clear-my-murdered-brother/

John Marshall's home was in Little Burstead.  He was last seen alive in his Range Rover in Pitsea.  The geographical closeness of these places to places connected with the Rettendon murders is imo striking and coupled with the fact Marshall disappeared a day after Nicholls revelations and Bird's arrest is probably no coincidence. 

CCTV was very prevalent mid 90's especially around the M25 and Dartford crossing. 

The following vid re Noye shows how extensive cctv was around the M25 and yet following the murder of Stephen Cameron on the Swanley roundabout, busiest roundabout in the world apparently, the camera was not set up to record and on the day in question was not working properly  8(0(*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck9ZQ8r2Dkw

As we know Noye was eventually convicted for the murder of Stephen Cameron but this appears to have been down to the officer in charge maintaining a high level of confidentiality and involving as few officers as possible.  Was he really concerned about the press or other officers leaking to Noye?

Can police officers really be so stupid as to think they could enter Noye's property to place him under surveillance and he wouldn't have attack dogs?  Surely someone would think this through beforehand?  Maybe they did and at the time he didn't have attack dogs but thereafter installed some? 

I also find it strange that the vehicle couldn't be quickly traced from the part vrn and general description. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #181 on: January 22, 2019, 02:06:04 PM »
According to evidence given by Saunders and Nicholls, Steele had been warned about a threat on his life by Tate as a result of the dodgy consignment of cannabis.  If true, there is your motive. 

Although found not guilty on the firearms charge, a shotgun (albeit, not the one used in the murders) was found at Steeles property. 

Interestingly, Steeles evidence at trial was that it was Nicholls life that had been threatened.  This threat had come from Tate after he had been supplied dodgy cannabis by Nicholls.  Steele claimed that he was acting as an intermediary.

But those close to Tate said there was no animosity between him and Steele.  Former police officer turned used car salesman, Barry Dorman, who was apparently a "father figure" to Tait was one of the party who went to Holland to help bring back the cash in respect of the dodgy cannabis:

Car dealer Barry Dorman was a close friend and "father figure" to Tate and gave evidence at the trial about meeting him and Steele in Belgium a week before the murders.

At the meeting Steele handed over £70,000, which police claimed he owed to Tate, Tucker and Rolfe over a bungled drug deal.

'No ill feeling'

Mr Dorman, in an exclusive interview with BBC News Online, said: "They were chatting and laughing with each other and there was no suggestion of any ill feeling between them.

"Mick Steele gave Pat the £70,000 and Pat gave Mick £2,000 in wages, which suggests Mick was just the gopher."

Mr Dorman, an ex-policeman, said: "I don't believe the coppers were bent but Darren Nicholls may well have pulled the wool over everyone's eyes."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2604343.stm?storyLink=%2523

And at trial Sarah Saunders told the court similar.  In her WS's she says she met with Steele to tell him Tate was talking about sending Steele up North and him not coming back.  She said she didn't really take him seriously as he talked a lot of nonsense a lot of the time and bearing in mind his brain was scrambled from all the drugs.  The pm revealed heroin, cocaine and steroids.

This is just something the police seized on to fit up Steele and Whomes. 

The dodgy cannabis deal was resolved to everyone's satisfaction in terms of the murdered trio, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes.   But it didn't just involve this handful of people.  Lets supposing Tate decided not to make good to those who put up cash eg corrupt police officers who may have in turn been procuring for other criminals.  Then there's Nicholls who was told by Steele to destroy 60 kilos of the dodgy batch.  He claims he buried it in a sandpit in Braintree.  Did he?  Or did he sell it on to the bent cops who may have sold it on to other criminals.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #182 on: January 22, 2019, 02:26:13 PM »
We know for sure Nicholls was a police informant and the relationship he had with DC Bird was a corrupt one.  Although the case against Bird collapsed there was much evidence he was dealing in cannabis.  Did it stop there?  Was he involved with other drugs/class A and/or other crimes?  Were others involved?  Higher ranking officers? Crime bosses?  And/or did Nicholls and/or others have corrupt relationships with other officers?  Tate was very good friends with former police officer Barry Dorman who was also putting in money for drug deals.  Someone was about to be exposed or threats were being made to expose and/or the likes of Tate were becoming too much of a liability.

I believe corrupt police officer(s) were responsible for the murders.  It's the only scenario that explains everything:

- It appears the murdered trio knew and trusted their assailant(s).  Tate and Tucker with phones in hand and Rolfe with his hands on the steering wheel and foot on brake.  They were found unarmed.  If they were working with corrupt officers they would never think they would turn a gun on them.

- The shootings have all the hallmarks of a marksperson who was well trained and capable of carrying out a successful attack ambush style.

- No forensic evidence left at soc.

- Identified location where sound of gunshot would not be out of place.

- The tel evidence in the following gives it away imo along with the geography:

The telephone evidence

At trial the prosecution adduced detailed evidence of telephone calls to and from land lines and mobile phones which belonged to Nicholls, Steele, Whomes, Tate and his associates. The telephone companies provided details as to the time and duration of calls. In addition, this was one of the first cases in which the position of the makers and recipients of mobile phone calls was identified by the location of the cell sites through which the phones had sent or received the call. There was a great deal of factual and expert evidence on this subject at the trial. We shall have to return to it later as it gave rise to one of the bases upon which the Criminal Cases Review Commission referred the matter to this Court. At the moment it is sufficient to summarise some of what it established. It included telephone contact between Nicholls and Steele on 6 December while Nicholls was still in the Sunbury area in the middle of the day. It also established contact between Steele's mobile phone and that of Whomes at 14.11. Around 14.30 there were calls from a telephone kiosk near a public house close to where Whomes was working. Two of the calls were to the mobile phone of Tucker and one (a missed call) was to the mobile phone of Tate.  At 14.32 there was a call to a telephone kiosk in Basildon, close to where Tate lived. About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone kiosk to Nicholls' mobile phone. There was other telephone contact between Nicholls and Steele, and Steele and Whomes in the course of the afternoon. At 17.03 a call was made from a telephone kiosk near The Halfway House public house on the A127 to Tate's mobile phone. Whomes telephoned Steele via the mobile phones at 17.12. At 18.03 and 18.09 calls were recorded between Steele's mobile phone and that of Whomes. At 18.44 there was a call of almost 4 minutes duration from an address in Basildon where Sarah Saunders was and the mobile phone of Tate. The case for the prosecution was that it was the call overheard by Steele as described by Nicholls at a time when Steele and Tate were in or near the Range Rover in the farm track at Rettenden. That call ended at about 18.48. At 18.59 two short calls were made from Whomes' mobile phone to that of Nicholls. The case for the prosecution was that they, or one of them (they lasted one and four seconds respectively) included the 'pick-up' call. Although there was no medical or scientific evidence as to the time of death of the three deceased, the case for the prosecution was that the murders took place between 18.48 and 18.59 and that the telephone evidence supported this. It is a fact that the mobile phones of the deceased men did not make or receive effective calls after that time. Although their bodies were not found until the following day, they had been expected home before 20.00hrs because they had social engagements. Both Tate and Tucker died with their mobile phones in their hands.

The murders were obviously premeditated and I think the plan all along was to implicate Steele/Whomes.  Were Steele/Whomes aware of Nicholls relationship with at least one corrupt officer?  Was Nicholls feeding info back to Steele/Whomes enabling Steele to avoid detection when landing on the coast in his boat?  Those who Nicholls was informing were obviously one step ahead knowing who was up to what, where, where and how etc.

The calls from the phone boxes, highlighted above, lend support to my theory:

- Around 14.30pm 2 calls were made from a telephone box near a pub close to where Whomes was working.  Two calls to Tucker's mobile and one to Tate's which was missed.  At the time Whomes was working in a place called Clayden off the A14 towards Stowmarket which is miles from other areas associated with the murdered trio.  The impression here is that Whomes was in contact with Tate and Tucker via a call box to avoid leaving an audit trail.  Afaik Whomes didn't even know Tucker and in any event Steele did all the arranging.

- At 14.32 there was a telephone call to kiosk in Basildon near to where Tate lived.  Proabably one police officer phoning another in an attempt to establish Tate's whereabouts.

- About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same phone box to Nicholls - the supergrass/informant in contact with his handler.

- At 17.03 a call was made from a phone box near the Halfway House on the A127 to Tate's mobile. 

- Sarah Saunders said during her police interviews when she last spoke with Tate on his mobile just before it was thought he was murdered he said 'I'm with some people' and she said had he been with Steele he would have said 'I'm with Mick' who was known to both of them. 

We know for sure all these calls from phone boxes cannot have been made by Steele/Whomes since mobile phone evidence puts them elsewhere.  Other criminals who may have had reason to want to murder the trio would not be bothered attempting to implicate others.  Someone was phoning members of both gangs via phone boxes:

Tate and Tucker from the Rolfe, Tate and Tucker gang

And

Nicholls from the Nicholls, Steele and Whomes gang

I think the someone was 1 or more corrupt officers who were able to orchestrate the whole thing ie get everyone in situ to murder Rolfe, Tate and Tucker and lay the blame on Steele and Whomes.

I don't think Steele/Whomes were in the frame early on.  If they were why did police officers investigate Leah Betts father, Paul Betts.  And why didn't the investigation throw up any cctv footage of cars Steele and Whomes were known to have access to including Nicholls?

Corrupt police officers would know which roads/pubs to use/quote to avoid detection ie lack of cctv footage.

To resort to murder I think the corrupt officers were up to their necks in it and I think Tate/Tucker were also working with the same officers Nicholls was working with.  Remember Tate and Nicholls were pals who met in Hollesley Bay prison.  I believe Tate started using heroin whilst at HB.  Were corrupt officers supplying prison guards?   

Going back to the phone evidence highlighted above I was wondering why those who fitted up Steele/Whomes decided to use a phone box near Whomes' place of work and not try to implicate Steele in this way when Steele was the arranger who had contact with Tait/Tucker.  Then I realised at the time Whomes was employed by G&T commercials stowmarket and his whereabouts known to those who wanted to set him up.  Whereas afaik Steele was not employed at the time and therefore his whereabouts were unknown. 

Imo it's the phone box evidence that gives it away.  Did whoever made the call to Nicholls from a phone box make a mistake, become complacent or it was done out of necessity to tie up people being in the right place at the right time. 

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #183 on: January 22, 2019, 04:34:26 PM »
But those close to Tate said there was no animosity between him and Steele.  Former police officer turned used car salesman, Barry Dorman, who was apparently a "father figure" to Tait was one of the party who went to Holland to help bring back the cash in respect of the dodgy cannabis:

Car dealer Barry Dorman was a close friend and "father figure" to Tate and gave evidence at the trial about meeting him and Steele in Belgium a week before the murders.

At the meeting Steele handed over £70,000, which police claimed he owed to Tate, Tucker and Rolfe over a bungled drug deal.

'No ill feeling'

Mr Dorman, in an exclusive interview with BBC News Online, said: "They were chatting and laughing with each other and there was no suggestion of any ill feeling between them.

"Mick Steele gave Pat the £70,000 and Pat gave Mick £2,000 in wages, which suggests Mick was just the gopher."

Mr Dorman, an ex-policeman, said: "I don't believe the coppers were bent but Darren Nicholls may well have pulled the wool over everyone's eyes."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2604343.stm?storyLink=%2523

And at trial Sarah Saunders told the court similar.  In her WS's she says she met with Steele to tell him Tate was talking about sending Steele up North and him not coming back.  She said she didn't really take him seriously as he talked a lot of nonsense a lot of the time and bearing in mind his brain was scrambled from all the drugs.  The pm revealed heroin, cocaine and steroids.

This is just something the police seized on to fit up Steele and Whomes. 

The dodgy cannabis deal was resolved to everyone's satisfaction in terms of the murdered trio, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes.   But it didn't just involve this handful of people.  Lets supposing Tate decided not to make good to those who put up cash eg corrupt police officers who may have in turn been procuring for other criminals.  Then there's Nicholls who was told by Steele to destroy 60 kilos of the dodgy batch.  He claims he buried it in a sandpit in Braintree.  Did he?  Or did he sell it on to the bent cops who may have sold it on to other criminals.
The story that Dorman and Steele concocted, was that Steele was helping Nicholls out, and it was Nicholls who masterminded the importations.  Having seen him re count this tale in one of the many inaccurate films made on the subject, I found his claims to be nothing short of laughable.  The suggestion that Steele was gophering for Nicholls is also just that, laughable.

Having read Nicholls extremely detailed accounts of the importations, I have absolutely no doubt that Steele was in fact the mastermind.  There was also plenty of documentary evidence to support Nicholls claims.

The only explanation that Steele could find, to explain away the evidence put before him, was to suggest that he was working for Nicholls.  The jury would have found this impossible to believe.  It must have destroyed his credibility in court.   


Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #184 on: January 22, 2019, 04:39:03 PM »
But those close to Tate said there was no animosity between him and Steele.  Former police officer turned used car salesman, Barry Dorman, who was apparently a "father figure" to Tait was one of the party who went to Holland to help bring back the cash in respect of the dodgy cannabis:

Car dealer Barry Dorman was a close friend and "father figure" to Tate and gave evidence at the trial about meeting him and Steele in Belgium a week before the murders.

At the meeting Steele handed over £70,000, which police claimed he owed to Tate, Tucker and Rolfe over a bungled drug deal.

'No ill feeling'

Mr Dorman, in an exclusive interview with BBC News Online, said: "They were chatting and laughing with each other and there was no suggestion of any ill feeling between them.

"Mick Steele gave Pat the £70,000 and Pat gave Mick £2,000 in wages, which suggests Mick was just the gopher."

Mr Dorman, an ex-policeman, said: "I don't believe the coppers were bent but Darren Nicholls may well have pulled the wool over everyone's eyes."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2604343.stm?storyLink=%2523

And at trial Sarah Saunders told the court similar.  In her WS's she says she met with Steele to tell him Tate was talking about sending Steele up North and him not coming back.  She said she didn't really take him seriously as he talked a lot of nonsense a lot of the time and bearing in mind his brain was scrambled from all the drugs.  The pm revealed heroin, cocaine and steroids.

This is just something the police seized on to fit up Steele and Whomes. 

The dodgy cannabis deal was resolved to everyone's satisfaction in terms of the murdered trio, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes.   But it didn't just involve this handful of people.  Lets supposing Tate decided not to make good to those who put up cash eg corrupt police officers who may have in turn been procuring for other criminals. Then there's Nicholls who was told by Steele to destroy 60 kilos of the dodgy batch.  He claims he buried it in a sandpit in Braintree.  Did he?  Or did he sell it on to the bent cops who may have sold it on to other criminals.
Nicholls threw it in a pond.  The cannabis was later recovered by Essex Police.  Nicholls was paid a £400 reward for providing the information to Police, £50 of which he gave to Wolfgang Bird. 

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #185 on: January 22, 2019, 04:47:43 PM »
Going back to the phone evidence highlighted above I was wondering why those who fitted up Steele/Whomes decided to use a phone box near Whomes' place of work and not try to implicate Steele in this way when Steele was the arranger who had contact with Tait/Tucker.  Then I realised at the time Whomes was employed by G&T commercials stowmarket and his whereabouts known to those who wanted to set him up.  Whereas afaik Steele was not employed at the time and therefore his whereabouts were unknown. 

Imo it's the phone box evidence that gives it away.  Did whoever made the call to Nicholls from a phone box make a mistake, become complacent or it was done out of necessity to tie up people being in the right place at the right time.
Steele was a telephone box man.  He was quite sure that his telephone was bugged.  When Police searched his house they found an anti bugging device. 

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #186 on: January 22, 2019, 04:53:50 PM »
Going back to the phone evidence highlighted above I was wondering why those who fitted up Steele/Whomes decided to use a phone box near Whomes' place of work and not try to implicate Steele in this way when Steele was the arranger who had contact with Tait/Tucker.  Then I realised at the time Whomes was employed by G&T commercials stowmarket and his whereabouts known to those who wanted to set him up.  Whereas afaik Steele was not employed at the time and therefore his whereabouts were unknown. 

Imo it's the phone box evidence that gives it away.  Did whoever made the call to Nicholls from a phone box make a mistake, become complacent or it was done out of necessity to tie up people being in the right place at the right time.
Are you suggesting that someone else was responsible for the murders, and before they carried them out, they used telephone boxes to try and set Steele and Whomes up? 

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #187 on: January 22, 2019, 09:45:46 PM »
The story that Dorman and Steele concocted, was that Steele was helping Nicholls out, and it was Nicholls who masterminded the importations.  Having seen him re count this tale in one of the many inaccurate films made on the subject, I found his claims to be nothing short of laughable.  The suggestion that Steele was gophering for Nicholls is also just that, laughable.

Having read Nicholls extremely detailed accounts of the importations, I have absolutely no doubt that Steele was in fact the mastermind.  There was also plenty of documentary evidence to support Nicholls claims.

The only explanation that Steele could find, to explain away the evidence put before him, was to suggest that he was working for Nicholls.  The jury would have found this impossible to believe.  It must have destroyed his credibility in court.

I'm not sure Dorman did concoct a story?  He just provided info on his interpretation of events re the cash reimbursement in respect of the dodgy cannabis and said all was well between Steele and Tate.  Even the CoA seemed to recognise that Tate was present in Amsterdam when supplier John Stone reimbursed Steele who in turn reimbursed those who had funded the dodgy cannabis.  I was however wondering why Steele didn't just bring the cash back in his RIB rather than the motley crew gather en masse in Amsterdam.  I appreciate it was considered too high risk for one or two individuals to carry a large amount of cash through customs but why didn't Steele just bring back over?  Tucker wasn't present as it was his birthday and his girlfriend had booked a hotel. 

I agree Steele was the leader with Nicholls and Whomes willing participants but as I said up thread Steele was really caught between the devil and the deep blue sea as the trial didn't just involve the murders but also importing drugs and possession of a firearm.  If Steele admitted to importing drugs he was looking at a long custodial sentence based on his previous conviction(s) for the same offence.

And lets not forget after the murders Nicholls was caught by EP with a large quantity of cannabis in the boot of his car. 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 10:01:10 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #188 on: January 22, 2019, 10:06:52 PM »
Nicholls threw it in a pond.  The cannabis was later recovered by Essex Police.  Nicholls was paid a £400 reward for providing the information to Police, £50 of which he gave to Wolfgang Bird.

I don't know anything about the above.  I'm just going from the info in the CoA doc:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

Once back in England, Steele told Nicholls to get rid of the remaining 60 kilos. Nicholls disposed of it in a sandpit near Braintree.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #189 on: January 22, 2019, 10:30:47 PM »
Steele was a telephone box man.  He was quite sure that his telephone was bugged.  When Police searched his house they found an anti bugging device.

But he wasn't a telephone box man on 5th Dec as he made a number of calls to Nicholls and Whomes on his mobile.

Someone was calling Tate, Tucker and Nicholls from a call box and it wasn't Steele.  Someone called Tate and Tucker from a phone box near Whomes' place of work near Stowmarket at around 14.30.  At 14.32 there was an incoming call to a telephone box near Tait's home in Basildon.  Around 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone box to Nicholls' mobile.  Stowmarket to Basildon is 1 hour, 12 mins/63 miles.  I would suggest those making the calls from tel boxes on 5th Dec were either directly responsible for the murders or were working with those who were responsible.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 12:45:57 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #190 on: January 22, 2019, 11:16:20 PM »
Are you suggesting that someone else was responsible for the murders, and before they carried them out, they used telephone boxes to try and set Steele and Whomes up?

Yes, possibly. 

This case was one of the first cases where mobile evidence was used to identify a person's whereabouts:

In addition, this was one of the first cases in which the position of the makers and recipients of mobile phone calls was identified by the location of the cell sites through which the phones had sent or received the call. There was a great deal of factual and expert evidence on this subject at the trial.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

It's extremely unlikely Steele would have forensic knowledge re the above. 

Someone was calling Tate and Tucker from call boxes on the 5th Dec (bodies found on 6th Dec).  Nicholls also received a call on his mobile from a call box.  As I said above Tate and Tucker received calls from a call box near Stowmarket and Nicholls from Basildon.  All these calls were within 30 mins and yet the geographical distance between the two is 1 hour, 12 mins/63 miles so it could not have been Steele. 

« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 12:46:33 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #191 on: January 23, 2019, 11:32:44 AM »
Yes, possibly. 

This case was one of the first cases where mobile evidence was used to identify a person's whereabouts:

In addition, this was one of the first cases in which the position of the makers and recipients of mobile phone calls was identified by the location of the cell sites through which the phones had sent or received the call. There was a great deal of factual and expert evidence on this subject at the trial.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

It's extremely unlikely Steele would have forensic knowledge re the above. 

Someone was calling Tate and Tucker from call boxes on the 5th Dec (bodies found on 6th Dec).  Nicholls also received a call on his mobile from a call box.  As I said above Tate and Tucker received calls from a call box near Stowmarket and Nicholls from Basildon.  All these calls were within 30 mins and yet the geographical distance between the two is 1 hour, 12 mins/63 mins so it could not have been Steele.

Corrupt police officers from Braintree CID were no doubt aware how mobile phone data could be used to identify the approximate location of those who use mobile phones.  They would certainly have an awareness of how to communicate with others to avoid detection eg use of phone boxes.  An informer would simply add to all this intelligence enabling them to control and manipulate many scenarios. 

There's much evidence corrupt officers were able to lure Rolfe, Tate and Tucker to Workhouse Lane on some pretext to have them slaughtered probably because they were becoming too much of a liablility and risk exposing the corrupt officers and crime bosses.  If they all needed taking out it had to be done in one hit but taking out 3 wasn't something that would then be swept under the carpet so a scapegoat(s) was needed ie Steele/Whomes. 

It's possible the officer(s) told Rolfe, Tate and Tucker to meet at Workhouse Lane on the basis drugs/cash were to be placed in the boot of the Range Rover and they would then ensure safe passage to a storage facility ie advise who was on patrol and which roads to take.  They were told a vehicle would back up to the boot and they were not to get out so as not to leave footprints.  An officer and the hitman faff around outside with the officer opening the rear driver's door and the hitman steps forward.

The Timeline

5th Dec/6th Dec 1995 - It is thought Rolfe, Tate and Tucker were murdered 5th Dec around 7pm with the bodies found 6th Dec

13th May 1996 - Corry, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes arrested.  Shortly after his arrest Nicholls asked to speak with DC Bird his request was refused.  Bird had also been arrested.

13 th May - evening - Nicholls interviewed - no comment

14th May - afternoon - Nicholls interviewed - no comment

14th May - evening - Nicholls asked to speak with a senior officer and was seen by Det Sup Barrington.  He was told Bird was in custody.  Nicholls inidicated his willingness to talk about "drugs jobs" and "other more serious things would be disclosed.  He asked about protection in and out of prison.  He said that he would be giving information about the illegal activities of police officers.

15th May  - Used car dealer and former business partner to Tate, John Marshall, is last seen alive around midday leaving a salvage yard in Pitsea, Essex.  His home was Little Burstead, Essex.  It was rumoured he was involved with drugs.  Marshall sold a used vehicle to Kenneth Noye with false papers.

19th May - Noye murdered Stephen Cameron on the M25.

22nd May - John Marshall's body discovered in the back of his Range Rover in Sydenham, Kent.  The body and vehicle were there from at least 6.30am 16th May.

It has been said Noye ordered a hit on Marshall to silence him over the car he sold him with false papers which he was driving when he murdered Stephen Cameron.  This is clearly wrong since Marshall was murdered 15th/16th May and Stephen Cameron murdered 19th May. 

What is interesting is that John Marshall, former business partner to Tate, was murdered only hours after Nicholls made his disclosures re "drugs jobs|" and "illegal activities of police officers". 

Did Noye feel the net was closing in and/or was he at risk of being exposed and/or his life was under threat from others?  I've always thought it strange that someone who was active in crime but never liked to dirty his hands per se would suddenly lose the plot in broad daylight on one of the busiest roundabouts in the world.  Is this the reason he lost it with Stephen Cameron?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #192 on: January 23, 2019, 03:34:05 PM »
Analysis of Tel Calls 6th Dec 1986 Extracted From CoA Doc

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

Time of Day          M/PB/LL/Sender/Location                                       M/PB/LL/Receiver/Location


Middle                  M/Nicholls/Sunbury, W.London                                M/Steele/?

14.11                   M/Steele/?                                                            M/Whomes/?

14.30                   PB/?/Phone Box Nr To Where Whomes Working,       M/Tucker/?
                           Stowmarket, Suffolk

14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tucker/?


14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tait/? *

14.32                    ?/?/?                                                                   PB/?/Phone Box Close To Where Tait Lived,
                                                                                                       Basildon, Essex

14.52                 PB/?/Phone Box Close To Where Tait Lived,                M/Nicholls/?
                         Basildon, Essex

Other telephone contact between Nicholls/Steele and Steele/Whomes during the afternoon.

17.03                 PB/?/Phone Box Halfway House pub, A127,                M/Tait/?
                         Brentwood Essex

17.12                 M/Whomes/?                                                           M/Steele/?

18.03                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.09                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.44                 LL/Sarah Saunders/Basildon                                     M/Tait/?

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

M = Mobile
PB = Phone Box
LL = Landline
* = Missed Call
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 12:07:27 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #193 on: January 23, 2019, 04:01:18 PM »
The prosecution case is:

14.11 Steeles mobile calls Whomes mobile
14.30 Steele calls Tuckers mobile twice
14.30 Steele calls Tates mobile (missed call)
14.32 Steele calls Tate at the Basildon phone box
14.52 Steele calls Nicholls




Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #194 on: January 23, 2019, 04:16:59 PM »
Analysis of Tel Calls 6th Dec 1986 Extracted From CoA Doc

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

Time of Day          M/PB/LL/Sender/Location                                       M/PB/LL/Receiver/Location


Middle                  M/Nicholls/Sunbury, W.London                                M/Steele/?

14.11                   M/Steele/?                                                            M/Whomes/?

14.30                   PB/?/Phone Box Nr To Where Whomes Working,       M/Tucker/?
                           Stowmarket, Suffolk

14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tucker/?

14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tait/? *

14.32                    ?/?/?                                                                   PB/?/Phone Box Close To Where Tait Lived,
                                                                                                       Basildon, Essex

14.52                 PB/?/Phone Box Close To Where Tait Lived,                M/Nicholls/?
                         Basildon, Essex

Other telephone contact between Nicholls/Steele and Steele/Whomes during the afternoon.

17.03                 PB/?/Phone Box Halfway House pub, A127,                M/Tait/?
                         Brentwood Essex

17.12                 M/Whomes/?                                                           M/Steele/?

18.03                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.09                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.44                 LL/Sarah Saunders/Basildon                                     M/Tait/?

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

M = Mobile
PB = Phone Box
LL = Landline
* = Missed Call

As I said above the phone analysis is based on info contained within the CoA doc.  The CoA make clear it is a summary of the info.  Questions I would like answered:

1. The CoA doc states:

Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed. In order to make the information intelligible and relevant to the issues in the case, a selection of these calls, with this information, was incorporated into agreed schedules. We have in the course of our narrative already referred to many of these calls. However two specific calls require detailed examination and investigation.

The two calls in question are of course those made by Whomes to Nicholls at 18.59 putting them both near the soc at a time when it is thought the trio were murdered.  Imo all the calls require detailed examination and investigation.  Eg:

2. Where was Tate when he received his call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44 which was 15 mins before Whomes calls to Nicholls.  If Tate was in an area whereby it was not possible for him to travel to the Rettendon area within 15 minutes then this blows the prosecution case apart.

3. Who was making the phone calls from phone boxes?  At first glance it would be easy to jump to the conclusion that Whomes made the calls to Tucker and Tait at 14.30 from a phone box close to his place of work and he did so to avoid leaving an electronic footprint by way of mobile phone data, but did he?  Did someone else make the calls to Tait and Tucker to implicate Whomes at an early stage?

4. Where was Steele when he made his 14.11 call to Whomes?  Can he be ruled by geographical location and journey time for making the 14.30 calls?

5. Who made the call to a phone box at 14.32 close to where Tate lived and who received it?

6. Who made the call from a phone box close to where Tate lived to Nicholls at 14.52?

7. Who made the call from a phone box on the A127 to Tait at 17.03?  According to Nicholls testimony he met with Steele and Whomes at Marks Tey around 17.00 so by way of geographical location and journey time this rules out Steele and Whomes making this call.

8.  The calls from phone boxes appear to involve 2 people since those made at approx 14.30 to Tait and Tucker and the one made at 14.52 to Nicholls involve geographical distances and journey times ruling out the same person.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 04:19:58 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?