Author Topic: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.  (Read 165755 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #195 on: January 23, 2019, 04:22:35 PM »
Corrupt police officers from Braintree CID were no doubt aware how mobile phone data could be used to identify the approximate location of those who use mobile phones.  They would certainly have an awareness of how to communicate with others to avoid detection eg use of phone boxes.  An informer would simply add to all this intelligence enabling them to control and manipulate many scenarios. 

There's much evidence corrupt officers were able to lure Rolfe, Tate and Tucker to Workhouse Lane on some pretext to have them slaughtered probably because they were becoming too much of a liablility and risk exposing the corrupt officers and crime bosses.  If they all needed taking out it had to be done in one hit but taking out 3 wasn't something that would then be swept under the carpet so a scapegoat(s) was needed ie Steele/Whomes. 

It's possible the officer(s) told Rolfe, Tate and Tucker to meet at Workhouse Lane on the basis drugs/cash were to be placed in the boot of the Range Rover and they would then ensure safe passage to a storage facility ie advise who was on patrol and which roads to take.  They were told a vehicle would back up to the boot and they were not to get out so as not to leave footprints.  An officer and the hitman faff around outside with the officer opening the rear driver's door and the hitman steps forward.

The Timeline

5th Dec/6th Dec 1995 - It is thought Rolfe, Tate and Tucker were murdered 5th Dec around 7pm with the bodies found 6th Dec

13th May 1996 - Corry, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes arrested.  Shortly after his arrest Nicholls asked to speak with DC Bird his request was refused.  Bird had also been arrested.

13 th May - evening - Nicholls interviewed - no comment

14th May - afternoon - Nicholls interviewed - no comment

14th May - evening - Nicholls asked to speak with a senior officer and was seen by Det Sup Barrington.  He was told Bird was in custody.  Nicholls inidicated his willingness to talk about "drugs jobs" and "other more serious things would be disclosed.  He asked about protection in and out of prison.  He said that he would be giving information about the illegal activities of police officers.

15th May  - Used car dealer and former business partner to Tate, John Marshall, is last seen alive around midday leaving a salvage yard in Pitsea, Essex.  His home was Little Burstead, Essex.  It was rumoured he was involved with drugs.  Marshall sold a used vehicle to Kenneth Noye with false papers.

19th May - Noye murdered Stephen Cameron on the M25.

22nd May - John Marshall's body discovered in the back of his Range Rover in Sydenham, Kent.  The body and vehicle were there from at least 6.30am 16th May.

It has been said Noye ordered a hit on Marshall to silence him over the car he sold him with false papers which he was driving when he murdered Stephen Cameron.  This is clearly wrong since Marshall was murdered 15th/16th May and Stephen Cameron murdered 19th May. 

What is interesting is that John Marshall, former business partner to Tate, was murdered only hours after Nicholls made his disclosures re "drugs jobs|" and "illegal activities of police officers". 

Did Noye feel the net was closing in and/or was he at risk of being exposed and/or his life was under threat from others?  I've always thought it strange that someone who was active in crime but never liked to dirty his hands per se would suddenly lose the plot in broad daylight on one of the busiest roundabouts in the world.  Is this the reason he lost it with Stephen Cameron?
I've never heard/read any credible source, that supports the suggestion that Tate was once Marshall's business partner. 

Likewise, there is no established link between Noye and TTR or Steele & Whomes.  There's not even a sniff of one. 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 04:27:42 PM by sika »

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #196 on: January 23, 2019, 04:26:14 PM »
As I said above the phone analysis is based on info contained within the CoA doc.  The CoA make clear it is a summary of the info.  Questions I would like answered:

1. The CoA doc states:

Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed. In order to make the information intelligible and relevant to the issues in the case, a selection of these calls, with this information, was incorporated into agreed schedules. We have in the course of our narrative already referred to many of these calls. However two specific calls require detailed examination and investigation.

The two calls in question are of course those made by Whomes to Nicholls at 18.59 putting them both near the soc at a time when it is thought the trio were murdered.  Imo all the calls require detailed examination and investigation.  Eg:

2. Where was Tate when he received his call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44 which was 15 mins before Whomes calls to Nicholls.  If Tate was in an area whereby it was not possible for him to travel to the Rettendon area within 15 minutes then this blows the prosecution case apart.

3. Who was making the phone calls from phone boxes?  At first glance it would be easy to jump to the conclusion that Whomes made the calls to Tucker and Tait at 14.30 from a phone box close to his place of work and he did so to avoid leaving an electronic footprint by way of mobile phone data, but did he?  Did someone else make the calls to Tait and Tucker to implicate Whomes at an early stage?

4. Where was Steele when he made his 14.11 call to Whomes?  Can he be ruled by geographical location and journey time for making the 14.30 calls?

5. Who made the call to a phone box at 14.32 close to where Tate lived and who received it?

6. Who made the call from a phone box close to where Tate lived to Nicholls at 14.52?

7. Who made the call from a phone box on the A127 to Tait at 17.03?  According to Nicholls testimony he met with Steele and Whomes at Marks Tey around 17.00 so by way of geographical location and journey time this rules out Steele and Whomes making this call.

8.  The calls from phone boxes appear to involve 2 people since those made at approx 14.30 to Tait and Tucker and the one made at 14.52 to Nicholls involve geographical distances and journey times ruling out the same person.
6. That call was made from the phone box near Whomes place of work, to Nicholls.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #197 on: January 23, 2019, 04:29:34 PM »
The prosecution case is:

14.11 Steeles mobile calls Whomes mobile
14.30 Steele calls Tuckers mobile twice
14.30 Steele calls Tates mobile (missed call)
14.32 Steele calls Tate at the Basildon phone box
14.52 Steele calls Nicholls

Does the prosecution have the backup data  by way of which cells/masts calls were routed through to support Steele and his mobile being in the Stowmarket location when the 14.30 calls were made to Tucker/Tait?

How would anyone know who picked up the 14.32 call in the phone box close to where Tate lived in Basildon?

How could Steele call Nicholls from a phone box in Basildon, Essex if 20 minutes earlier he was calling Tait/Tucker from a phone box in Claydon, Stowmarket, Suffolk when the distance between these two places is 1 hour and 1 min/56.5 miles? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #198 on: January 23, 2019, 04:32:58 PM »
As I said above the phone analysis is based on info contained within the CoA doc.  The CoA make clear it is a summary of the info.  Questions I would like answered:

1. The CoA doc states:

Skilled interrogation and analysis of the computer records will show the cell site through which each outgoing and incoming call made from or to a mobile telephone was routed. In order to make the information intelligible and relevant to the issues in the case, a selection of these calls, with this information, was incorporated into agreed schedules. We have in the course of our narrative already referred to many of these calls. However two specific calls require detailed examination and investigation.

The two calls in question are of course those made by Whomes to Nicholls at 18.59 putting them both near the soc at a time when it is thought the trio were murdered.  Imo all the calls require detailed examination and investigation.  Eg:

2. Where was Tate when he received his call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44 which was 15 mins before Whomes calls to Nicholls.  If Tate was in an area whereby it was not possible for him to travel to the Rettendon area within 15 minutes then this blows the prosecution case apart.

3. Who was making the phone calls from phone boxes?  At first glance it would be easy to jump to the conclusion that Whomes made the calls to Tucker and Tait at 14.30 from a phone box close to his place of work and he did so to avoid leaving an electronic footprint by way of mobile phone data, but did he?  Did someone else make the calls to Tait and Tucker to implicate Whomes at an early stage?

4. Where was Steele when he made his 14.11 call to Whomes?  Can he be ruled by geographical location and journey time for making the 14.30 calls?

5. Who made the call to a phone box at 14.32 close to where Tate lived and who received it?

6. Who made the call from a phone box close to where Tate lived to Nicholls at 14.52?

7. Who made the call from a phone box on the A127 to Tait at 17.03?  According to Nicholls testimony he met with Steele and Whomes at Marks Tey around 17.00 so by way of geographical location and journey time this rules out Steele and Whomes making this call.

8.  The calls from phone boxes appear to involve 2 people since those made at approx 14.30 to Tait and Tucker and the one made at 14.52 to Nicholls involve geographical distances and journey times ruling out the same person.
5.  Steele made the call to Tates mobile which wasn't answered.  This was Tates cue to head to the phone box, where Steele could safely talk and make arrangements for the meet, later that evening.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #199 on: January 23, 2019, 04:33:16 PM »
6. That call was made from the phone box near Whomes place of work, to Nicholls.

Not according to the CoA.  It states:

At 14.32 there was a call to a telephone kiosk in Basildon, close to where Tate lived. About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone kiosk to Nicholls' mobile phone.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #200 on: January 23, 2019, 04:37:23 PM »
Does the prosecution have the backup data  by way of which cells/masts calls were routed through to support Steele and his mobile being in the Stowmarket location when the 14.30 calls were made to Tucker/Tait?

How would anyone know who picked up the 14.32 call in the phone box close to where Tate lived in Basildon?

How could Steele call Nicholls from a phone box in Basildon, Essex if 20 minutes earlier he was calling Tait/Tucker from a phone box in Claydon, Stowmarket, Suffolk when the distance between these two places is 1 hour and 1 min/56.5 miles?
He didn't call Nicholls from Basildon.  He was calling him from Suffolk.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #201 on: January 23, 2019, 04:41:29 PM »
He didn't call Nicholls from Basildon.  He was calling him from Suffolk.

I'm going off info contained within the CoA doc.  Do you believe it to be incorrect?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #202 on: January 23, 2019, 04:41:39 PM »
Not according to the CoA.  It states:

At 14.32 there was a call to a telephone kiosk in Basildon, close to where Tate lived. About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone kiosk to Nicholls' mobile phone.
That brief summary in the CoA document can be read two ways.  I will try and find a better source to post up.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #203 on: January 23, 2019, 04:55:25 PM »
I've never heard/read any credible source, that supports the suggestion that Tate was once Marshall's business partner. 

Likewise, there is no established link between Noye and TTR or Steele & Whomes.  There's not even a sniff of one.

Well this article states Tate and Marshall were business partners.  It also says:

Officers revealed John's partnership with Tate had broken up because John wouldn't stand for the dealer's behaviour.

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5529696.little-burstead-clear-my-murdered-brother/

Marshall supplied a vehicle to Noye with false papers under the name Anthony Francis. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/16/tonythompson.theobserver
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 05:14:20 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #204 on: January 23, 2019, 06:03:41 PM »
Well this article states Tate and Marshall were business partners.  It also says:

Officers revealed John's partnership with Tate had broken up because John wouldn't stand for the dealer's behaviour.

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5529696.little-burstead-clear-my-murdered-brother/

Marshall supplied a vehicle to Noye with false papers under the name Anthony Francis. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/16/tonythompson.theobserver
Which officers and who did they reveal it to? 

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #205 on: January 23, 2019, 06:22:18 PM »
Which officers and who did they reveal it to?

No idea which officers but I assume the officers made the revelation to the local newspaper who published the article. 

Solicitor, Chris Bowen, who at one time acted for Steele/Whomes stated the following:

Questions about the death of Billericay car dealer John Marshall, a friend of Tate's who was believed to be looking after £120,000 worth of drug money for him, who was found shot dead in his Range Rover six months later.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/829214.stm

There appear to be a lot of claims about a connection between Marshall and Tate but obviously no idea how reliable they are.

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #206 on: January 23, 2019, 07:27:31 PM »
The following is an extract from Judge Hiddens summing up of Steeles evidence, whilst under cross examination.

He was asked about the bottom call on that page, 2044, from the Sorrel Horse Public House, the call at 14:29 from that phone box to the Tucker mobile. He said it was not him making it. Over the page to 64, the second entry at 2046, 3 minutes later at 1432, another call to the Tucker mobile, and the next call, 2047, the call with the same timing of 1432 from that phone box to another phone box at Timber Log Lane in Clayhill Road Basildon connected with Tate. It was put to him that those were calls to first Tucker and then Tate.He said the phone calls from the Sorrel Horse were not made by him. He gave the same answer to the call at 2050, 1452, 20 minutes later, the call to Nicholls' mobile. That is a call from the payphone to Nicholls' mobile 288. Again Mr Steele said the calls were not made by him. He said, "I think Nicholls was at the Sorrel Horse, Barham. I know full well Nicholls had sought to phone me. I'm suggesting it is possible Nicholls may have been there at the phone box." In the light of that answer he was asked to look again at 2050 which is the phone box phoning Nicholls' mobile, 288. He still said he thought it was Nicholls using that box. He was not in the Sorrel Horse phone box.

He was asked to look at phone calls on page 73. We come back to 4 (a), members of the jury, at page 73, for those same calls on that time. The document I want you to go to I am afraid is actually 4(a)(3). Those calls are set out in the top set of calls in the calls on the Sorrel Horse pay phone. Again he said they were not him. That at 73 he was asked about the calls at 13:57, 14:00, 14:11 and 15:06. 14:00 is to Nicholls' mobile for 25 seconds, 15:06 is to Nicholls' messages for 14 seconds. He said he did not arrange to meet Nicholls at Marks Tey and then drive together with him to the A128 then swap him into Wholmes' vehicle. He accepted that at 18:03 and 18:09 he made two calls to Wholmes' mobile. He was asked about the call to Tate's mobile at 18:44 and said, "I was never in the vehicle, in the Range Rover with Tate, Rolfe and Tucker. Wholmes and I did not shoot them dead." Again he was asked about his interview 203(a) and he said he was willing to correct the customs officers when they were wrong but that was a natural reaction.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 07:30:26 PM by sika »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #207 on: January 24, 2019, 11:57:39 AM »
The following is an extract from Judge Hiddens summing up of Steeles evidence, whilst under cross examination.

He was asked about the bottom call on that page, 2044, from the Sorrel Horse Public House, the call at 14:29 from that phone box to the Tucker mobile. He said it was not him making it. Over the page to 64, the second entry at 2046, 3 minutes later at 1432, another call to the Tucker mobile, and the next call, 2047, the call with the same timing of 1432 from that phone box to another phone box at Timber Log Lane in Clayhill Road Basildon connected with Tate. It was put to him that those were calls to first Tucker and then Tate.He said the phone calls from the Sorrel Horse were not made by him. He gave the same answer to the call at 2050, 1452, 20 minutes later, the call to Nicholls' mobile. That is a call from the payphone to Nicholls' mobile 288. Again Mr Steele said the calls were not made by him. He said, "I think Nicholls was at the Sorrel Horse, Barham. I know full well Nicholls had sought to phone me. I'm suggesting it is possible Nicholls may have been there at the phone box." In the light of that answer he was asked to look again at 2050 which is the phone box phoning Nicholls' mobile, 288. He still said he thought it was Nicholls using that box. He was not in the Sorrel Horse phone box.

He was asked to look at phone calls on page 73. We come back to 4 (a), members of the jury, at page 73, for those same calls on that time. The document I want you to go to I am afraid is actually 4(a)(3). Those calls are set out in the top set of calls in the calls on the Sorrel Horse pay phone. Again he said they were not him. That at 73 he was asked about the calls at 13:57, 14:00, 14:11 and 15:06. 14:00 is to Nicholls' mobile for 25 seconds, 15:06 is to Nicholls' messages for 14 seconds. He said he did not arrange to meet Nicholls at Marks Tey and then drive together with him to the A128 then swap him into Wholmes' vehicle. He accepted that at 18:03 and 18:09 he made two calls to Wholmes' mobile. He was asked about the call to Tate's mobile at 18:44 and said, "I was never in the vehicle, in the Range Rover with Tate, Rolfe and Tucker. Wholmes and I did not shoot them dead." Again he was asked about his interview 203(a) and he said he was willing to correct the customs officers when they were wrong but that was a natural reaction.

My interpretation of the above aligns with the info contained within the CoA doc other than the above does not mention the missed call from the Sorrell Ho Pub to Tait's mobile.

The above first talks about the calls from the Sorrell Ho Pub and then talks about the call from the Sorrell Ho Pub to the phone box at Timber Log Lane, Clayhill, Basildon and the call from that same box to Nicholl's mobile.

It's actually a very cunning plan and most looking at it at the time would not consider that corrupt police officers were making these calls to implicate Steele/Whomes at a very early stage ie several hours before the murders took place!

To make sense of all of this we really need the complete schedule of calls as viewed by jurors and referred to by the judge.  Are you able to make it available?

It seems to me the emphasis on these calls is very much slanted towards the prosecution in terms of info provided.  For example we know an approximate location can be provided when a person makes or receives a mobile call and yet all I'm seeing so far is info re the location of Nicholls/Whomes for the 2 x 18.59 calls.  What about the whereabouts of all those who made and received mobile calls throughout the day? 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 12:01:10 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #208 on: January 24, 2019, 12:23:02 PM »
I've updated the table with further info from the judge's summing up.

Analysis of Tel Calls 6th Dec 1986 Extracted From CoA Doc and part of judge's summing up:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/195.html

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511119#msg511119

Time of Day          M/PB/LL/Sender/Location                                       M/PB/LL/Receiver/Location


Middle                  M/Nicholls/Sunbury, W.London                                M/Steele/?

14.11                   M/Steele/?                                                            M/Whomes/?

14.30                   PB/?/Sorrell Horse Pub, Barnham, Suffolk                M/Tucker/?
 

14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tucker/?


14.30 approx        PB/?/As above                                                       M/Tait/? *

14.32                   PB/?/As above                                                       PB/?/Timber Log Lane, Clayhill Rd,
                                                                                                       Basildon, Essex

14.52                   PB/?/Timber Log Lane, Clayhill Rd,                          M/Nicholls/?
                           Basildon, Essex   

Other telephone contact between Nicholls/Steele and Steele/Whomes during the afternoon.

17.03                 PB/?/Halfway House pub, A127,                                M/Tait/?
                         Brentwood Essex

17.12                 M/Whomes/?                                                           M/Steele/?

18.03                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.09                 M/Steele/?                                                              M/Whomes/?

18.44                 LL/Sarah Saunders/Basildon                                     M/Tait/?

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

18.59                 M/Whomes/Area Nr. Rettendon                                 M/Nicholls/Area Nr. Rettendon

M = Mobile
PB = Phone Box
LL = Landline
* = Missed Call
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #209 on: January 24, 2019, 06:56:54 PM »
My interpretation of the above aligns with the info contained within the CoA doc other than the above does not mention the missed call from the Sorrell Ho Pub to Tait's mobile.

The above first talks about the calls from the Sorrell Ho Pub and then talks about the call from the Sorrell Ho Pub to the phone box at Timber Log Lane, Clayhill, Basildon and the call from that same box to Nicholl's mobile.

It's actually a very cunning plan and most looking at it at the time would not consider that corrupt police officers were making these calls to implicate Steele/Whomes at a very early stage ie several hours before the murders took place!

To make sense of all of this we really need the complete schedule of calls as viewed by jurors and referred to by the judge.  Are you able to make it available?

It seems to me the emphasis on these calls is very much slanted towards the prosecution in terms of info provided.  For example we know an approximate location can be provided when a person makes or receives a mobile call and yet all I'm seeing so far is info re the location of Nicholls/Whomes for the 2 x 18.59 calls.  What about the whereabouts of all those who made and received mobile calls throughout the day?
Sorry Holly, your interpretation is wrong.  The call at 14.52 was made from the Sorrell Horse phone box.

It was put to him that those were calls to first Tucker and then Tate.He said the phone calls from the Sorrel Horse were not made by him. He gave the same answer to the call at 2050, 1452, 20 minutes later, the call to Nicholls' mobile. That is a call from the payphone to Nicholls' mobile 288. Again Mr Steele said the calls were not made by him. He said, "I think Nicholls was at the Sorrel Horse, Barham. I know full well Nicholls had sought to phone me. I'm suggesting it is possible Nicholls may have been there at the phone box." In the light of that answer he was asked to look again at 2050 which is the phone box phoning Nicholls' mobile, 288. He still said he thought it was Nicholls using that box. He was not in the Sorrel Horse phone box.