Author Topic: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?  (Read 414349 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2205 on: September 26, 2015, 08:21:47 PM »
What single event would cause a child to wake up, leave their room, and keep quiet as possible?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 01:16:05 AM by John »

Offline jassi

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2206 on: September 26, 2015, 08:23:10 PM »
What single event would cause a child to wake up, leave their room, and keep quiet as possible?

Needs to have a wee?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 01:16:19 AM by John »
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2207 on: September 26, 2015, 08:26:29 PM »
Needs to have a wee?
I mean seriously keep as quiet as possible. I'll rephrase the question....
What single event would cause a child to wake up, leave their room, keep as absolutely quiet as possible, and not return to their room?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2208 on: September 26, 2015, 08:26:36 PM »
This is an important thing in all scenarios, indoors or garden.
What single event would cause someone to wake up, leave the room, and keep quiet as possible?
Oh and BTW it needs to be an event which fully matches the witness crime scene description at 10pm.

What if the witnesses weren't honest ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2209 on: September 26, 2015, 08:28:04 PM »
I mean seriously keep as quiet as possible. I'll rephrase the question....
What single event would cause a child to wake up, leave their room, keep as absolutely quiet as possible, and not return to their room?

How do you know the child was quiet, no matter what the scenario ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline jassi

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2210 on: September 26, 2015, 08:32:13 PM »
How do you know the child was quiet, no matter what the scenario ?

Indeed, the parents were too far away to hear and her siblings were so dead to the world that they didn't even stir when the bedroom door slammed shut.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2211 on: September 26, 2015, 08:34:26 PM »
How do you know the child was quiet, no matter what the scenario ?
No witness statements mention hearing a child screaming or shouting that evening at the relevant times.
The windows (not the sliding doors) were single glazed so they let sound through.
The flat above was occupied all evening. The flat above that was occupied from about 9.15pm.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 08:38:31 PM by pegasus »

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2212 on: September 26, 2015, 08:36:51 PM »
No witness statements mention hearing a child screaming or shouting that evening at the relevant times.

Mrs Fenn was out and the holidaymakers surrounding 5a were all in the tapas. Who was there to hear ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2213 on: September 26, 2015, 08:41:39 PM »
Mrs Fenn was out and the holidaymakers surrounding 5a were all in the tapas. Who was there to hear ?
On Thu 3rd Mrs F arrived home at 3.30pm
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 08:43:51 PM by pegasus »

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2214 on: September 26, 2015, 08:50:50 PM »
On Thu 3rd Mrs F arrived home at 3.30pm

Apologies I was thinking about the 2nd. So no shouting from the child.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2215 on: September 26, 2015, 09:33:36 PM »
I don't recall seeing you post in protest about ferryman's comments on Martin Grime?
I guess that is different.

You might find that my comments about Martin Grime are factually based.

Offline mercury

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2216 on: September 26, 2015, 10:15:08 PM »
I approach it sequentially Mercury, given the starting location, solve the method of getting from there to half a metre away.
I agree it appears to be easy to make a w+w theory without the window and shutter being opened. Two recognised experts did exactly that, one if I recall correctly was MWT and the other another brit ex-police expert. But there are two problems with both of their theories - first they don't provide any good reason for w+w, and second they completely forget that in this actual case, the window and shutter actually were opened by someone.

Kids can get out of bed for various reasons, each as valid as the other. Ref your last sentence, even if it's factually true that the window and shutter were opened, there is no evidence as to who by really.It shouldn't really have to boil down to whether you believe the parents or not.

Common reasons for wandering can include sleepwalking, and/or having a night terror, or going to find an adult or visiting a favourite place though in that last example in the pitch dark I doubt most toddlers would do that, though there was a recent story about a very young girl in the USA putting her shoes and coat on in the middle of the night and going to buy sweets IIRC at a petrol station.

This all tends to falls down as normally wandering kids are found, unless the child met some fate such as falling down a hole, or was whisked away and hidden after a hit and run e.g. or the MWT idea that there just happened to be an opportunistic paedophile around at the time who grabbed her ...or a hypnotist who  chanted, come with me!!



Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2217 on: September 26, 2015, 10:35:47 PM »
In a nutshell - it looked and sounded like everyone was out. From that starting point, it's fairly elementary to explain the open shutter and window, and why no intruder entered, and the open door, and the exit of child to another room, and collect a truthful witness along the way.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2218 on: September 26, 2015, 10:37:31 PM »
In a nutshell - it looked like everyone was out. From that starting point, it's fairly elementary to explain the open shutter and window, and why no intruder entered, and the open door, and the exit of child to another room, and collect a truthful witness along the way.

Or of course, it was all made up.

No independent verification of the shutters or window open before 10 o'clock.

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2219 on: September 26, 2015, 10:55:03 PM »
It looked like everyone was out.
Proof - There was only one small low light on in a corner of the lounge, there was no flickering TV on, there were no people moving around.