Has Gonçalo Amaral been vindicated by the recent Cipriano denunciation?

[stephen25000]

I don't think you understand what happened in the Portuguese courts. Do you also think Amaral was cleared.
Its not about hating anyone, its about seeing what is true and what isn't.
The McCanns were cleared by the Portuguese, Amaral was not.

Not quite.

The case was shelved for lack of evidence as you know. Arguido status can be reinstated for up to 20 years after the initial period

As to Amaral, I would like to see the Court judgement after the recent Cipriano verdict of perjury.

As I've said repeatedly, Amaral wasn't the only member of the PJ who thought the Mccanns covered up what happened to Madeleine. As someone put it elsewhere, 'he was a bit player' and many other people have said the same things about the Mccanns he did.

[Mr Gray]

Not quite.

The case was shelved for lack of evidence as you know. Arguido status can be reinstated for up to 20 years after the initial period

As to Amaral, I would like to see the Court judgement after the recent Cipriano verdict of perjury.

As I've said repeatedly, Amaral wasn't the only member of the PJ who thought the Mccanns covered up what happened to Madeleine. As someone put it elsewhere, 'he was a bit player' and many other people have said the same things about the Mccanns he did.

try and stay on track, the highlighted parts of your statement are not relavent to the thread.

So there is no evidence that Amaral has been cleared. No newspaper articles , no proclamation from the morais site. Yet we have the archiving report which seems to clear the MCCanns. on the MCcANNFILES sit the translation says that all the evidence used to make them arguidos was found to have no basis(I am paraphrasing , not the) exact words) So they have been cleared on the available evidence, of course if new evidence came to loight they could be re arrested, no one disputes that, but at the moment they have been cleared.
on the same note, do you think Barry George has been cleared?

[stephen25000]

try and stay on track, the highlighted parts of your statement are not relavent to the thread.

So there is no evidence that Amaral has been cleared. No newspaper articles , no proclamation from the morais site. Yet we have the archiving report which seems to clear the MCCanns. on the MCcANNFILES sit the translation says that all the evidence used to make them arguidos was found to have no basis(I am paraphrasing , not the) exact words) So they have been cleared on the available evidence, of course if new evidence came to loight they could be re arrested, no one disputes that, but at the moment they have been cleared.
on the same note, do you think Barry George has been cleared?

Barry George has been tried in Court and on appeal gained his 'freedom'.

The incompetence of Redwood and co. on display there.

The Mccanns haven't been charged, so what's your problem ?

'A lack of evidence does not mean a crime was committed'.

[Jean-Pierre]

Barry George has been tried in Court and on appeal gained his 'freedom'.

The incompetence of Redwood and co. on display there.

The Mccanns haven't been charged, so what's your problem ?

'A lack of evidence does not mean a crime was committed'.

Indeed Stephen.  The McCanns have not been cleared because there is nothing to clear them from.  Similarly they cannot be accuse dof "failing to prove theor innocence" because that would require them to prove a negative.

And it is for this reason that the legal systems in all democratic countries are based on a presumption of innocence.

To answer the original question, I too would like to see the detail of the judgement.  As things stand I do not think Amaral is in any way vindicated, and indeed on sight it does not seem to show the Portuguese legal system in a very good light.  The court appears to accept  that she was tortured, but have given her an extra 7 months because she is unable to identify her torturers.   

[Mr Gray]

Barry George has been tried in Court and on appeal gained his 'freedom'.

The incompetence of Redwood and co. on display there.

The Mccanns haven't been charged, so what's your problem ?

'A lack of evidence does not mean a crime was committed'.

You are starting to ramble. Simple question which is very relevant to this case, do you think Barry George has been cleared.

As regards Redwood, it was not his decision to charge Georg it was the CPS. It was not Redwood who found George guilty it was the court.
Do you accept that George has been cleared.

[Mr Gray]

Indeed Stephen.  The McCanns have not been cleared because there is nothing to clear them from.  Similarly they cannot be accuse dof "failing to prove theor innocence" because that would require them to prove a negative.

And it is for this reason that the legal systems in all democratic countries are based on a presumption of innocence.

To answer the original question, I too would like to see the detail of the judgement.  As things stand I do not think Amaral is in any way vindicated, and indeed on sight it does not seem to show the Portuguese legal system in a very good light. The court appears to accept  that she was tortured, but have given her an extra 7 months because she is unable to identify her torturers.

[/color]

That is exactly the case. The court accepts she was tortured by the police but that some of her statement in her trial were untrue. The sentence against Amaral stays in place

[stephen25000]

You are starting to ramble. Simple question which is very relevant to this case, do you think Barry George has been cleared.

As regards Redwood, it was not his decision to charge Georg it was the CPS. It was not Redwood who found George guilty it was the court.
Do you accept that George has been cleared.

I have not read through all the details of the case, but the verdict was found to be unsafe as you know.

I know that Redwood didn't charge George, that's obvious, but he was part of the team used to gather the 'evidence' which ultimately was overturned on the forensics.

[Mr Gray]

I have not read through all the details of the case, but the verdict was found to be unsafe as you know.

I know that Redwood didn't charge George, that's obvious, but he was part of the team used to gather the 'evidence' which ultimately was overturned on the forensics.

So you don't know if George was cleared or not. How odd.
You blame Redwood because you dislike him due to his support of the McCanns. He gathered evidence..that's his job ... the evidence was put before the court. the court could have found him not guilty, they didn't...not redwoods fault

[stephen25000]

So you don't know if George was cleared or not. How odd.
You blame Redwood because you dislike him due to his support of the McCanns. He gathered evidence..that's his job ... the evidence was put before the court. the court could have found him not guilty, they didn't...not redwoods fault

I've read enough on the case to see what's happened. I do surprisingly enough have a life beyond posting on here .

Obviously he was not 'innocent' enough to get compensation.

Meanwhile Redwood help to put the case together.  >@@(*&)

[Mr Gray]

I've read enough on the case to see what's happened. I do surprisingly enough have a life beyond posting on here .

Obviously he was not 'innocent' enough to get compensation.

Meanwhile Redwood help to put the case together.  >@@(*&)

so now there are degrees of innocence..
redwood did his job.. at least he didn't write a book

[Angelo222]

I don't think you understand what happened in the Portuguese courts. Do you also think Amaral was cleared.
Its not about hating anyone, its about seeing what is true and what isn't.
The McCanns were cleared by the Portuguese, Amaral was not.

How exactly were they cleared Dave?   They left the country when they realised that they had been made the prime suspects.  Was that not in itself suspicious??

Was Kate McCanns refusal to answer police questions not suspicious for someone whose daughter had supposedly been abducted??   

It is usual and normal for innocent people to cooperate with police who are investigating the alleged abduction of their child so why not the McCanns??

[Angelo222]

It seems that some people want to bury their heads in the sand re Amaral and don't understand the ruling in the court. I could explain, it's quite complex, but Amaral was not cleared. No one has suggested he was involved in the assault.

Not true as Cipriano claimed he was there standing in the background whilst she was beaten.  He was lucky to escape that charge.

As far as Ciprianos denunciation is concerned this has no relevance for Amarals conviction. It has not been annulled as Luz has claimed.

[faithlilly]

Not true as Cipriano claimed he was there standing in the background whilst she was beaten.  He was lucky to escape that charge.

As far as Ciprianos denunciation is concerned this has no relevance for Amarals conviction. It has not been annulled as Luz has claimed.

But as Cipriano is now a convicted perjurer how much reliance can be put on her evidence ? Besides isn't it the supporters view that although she was tortured she didn't know who was there as she had a bag over her head ?

[Carana]

Not true as Cipriano claimed he was there standing in the background whilst she was beaten.  He was lucky to escape that charge.

As far as Ciprianos denunciation is concerned this has no relevance for Amarals conviction. It has not been annulled as Luz has claimed.

Luz seems to be convinced that because she was convicted of perjury she was never tortured in the first place, despite the fact that the court didn't dispute that she had been, and that therefore the guilty verdicts had all been overturned.

Several of us have asked her to produce something verifiable, but so far this hasn't happened.

[Eleanor]

It is actually quite simple.  The Court ruled that Leonor Cipriano accused certain people without proof, although this is a bit of a mystery to me as I don't think she personally accused anyone as she was unable to identify them.
However some PJ Officers were accused, tried and then acquitted.

There was never any question that she was abused while in PJ custody.  And that Amaral gave false written evidence, of which he was found guilty.