Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?

[G-Unit]

And an American Dog Handler said that if there is no cadaver odour then dogs will bark at the next best thing like Urine.

Which you can, of course, support with a cite.

[Eleanor]

Which you can, of course, support with a cite.

Can you support your American Judge with a Cite?

[Mr Gray]

I think cadaver dog alerts were only considered unreliable by an American judge, a Scottish cardiologist and some ill-informed supporters of the cardiologist.

You are forgetting  Grime and Harrison

[Venturi Swirl]

Which you can, of course, support with a cite.

It was Martin Grime’s mate I think, the one who died.

[G-Unit]

Can you support your American Judge with a Cite?

Of course. When you produce your cite I'll produce mine.

[Eleanor]

Of course. When you produce your cite I'll produce mine.

You first.  You made the statement first.

[G-Unit]

You first.  You made the statement first.

Obviously you can't produce a cite so forget it. I'm too old for childish arguments.

[Venturi Swirl]

Interesting.  A recent failure for Martin Grime’s dogs in a court of law

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/09/cadaver-dogs-alerted-at-home-of-man-whose-wife-disappeared-8-years-ago-fbi-consultant-says.html

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/09/jury-acquits-cumberland-county-man-accused-of-killing-wife-who-disappeared-in-2012.html

[Eleanor]

Obviously you can't produce a cite so forget it. I'm too old for childish arguments.

Ah, but I can.  So you will have to be a bit more careful in future.

[Venturi Swirl]

Another interesting piece of writing, from Martin Grime’s own paper, written in 2018
Can’t copy and paste but it’s page 53 of 187 paragraph 7 in which Grime admits that EVRD dogs trained on anything other than cadavers are not up to scratch, and alerts from dogs trained on animal matter first (as Eddie was I believe) must  be considered to possibly be alerting to this animal matter or cadaver.  Dogs that have been trained on both would not pass muster in a court of law and would easily be discredited. 

http://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4750/1/Forensic%20Canine%20Foundation%20.pdf

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Ah, but I can.  So you will have to be a bit more careful in future.

Well I would like to hear more about this urine thing, it seems a strange thing for a dog handler to say.
I will give the cite about the American judge so please reciprocate with your cite.

https://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2007/09/01/2904811.htm

[Eleanor]

Well I would like to hear more about this urine thing, it seems a strange thing for a dog handler to say.
I will give the cite about the American judge so please reciprocate with your cite.

https://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2007/09/01/2904811.htm

Gosh.  More than one Judge who had doubts about Cadaver Dogs.  Jolly good show.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

You are forgetting  Grime and Harrison

Do you really believe that Grime and Harrison believe that cadaver dog alerts are unreliable? Have they ever said they believe cadaver dog alerts to be unreliable? I know they have said they are not evidential but never unreliable.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Interesting.  A recent failure for Martin Grime’s dogs in a court of law

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/09/cadaver-dogs-alerted-at-home-of-man-whose-wife-disappeared-8-years-ago-fbi-consultant-says.html

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/09/jury-acquits-cumberland-county-man-accused-of-killing-wife-who-disappeared-in-2012.html

You win some you lose some.

 It would be a failure only if the wife reappeared on a flight from Kyrgyzstan at some point in the future saying “Honey, I’m home”. Let's hope that happens, but let’s see if it does.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Another interesting piece of writing, from Martin Grime’s own paper, written in 2018
Can’t copy and paste but it’s page 53 of 187 paragraph 7 in which Grime admits that EVRD dogs trained on anything other than cadavers are not up to scratch, and alerts from dogs trained on animal matter first (as Eddie was I believe) must  be considered to possibly be alerting to this animal matter or cadaver.  Dogs that have been trained on both would not pass muster in a court of law and would easily be discredited. 

http://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4750/1/Forensic%20Canine%20Foundation%20.pdf

He always was a man of contradictions though wasn’t he. Stated multiple times that dog alerts were not evidence but appeared many times in court to give evidence on his dogs alerts.